EP. 59 — Mae Martin

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. I hope you’re well. I’m really excited because I’ve got a mate on the podcast today and I don’t have a lot of friends in this business because I find people in this business really scary and a bit off-putting sometimes, if I’m being honest, they probably also find me Off-putting. So I’m not saying that in a judgey way, but it’s just a bit and people are a bit intense and and we have different values and dreams. And so it’s very rare that I meet someone who actually really connect with who doesn’t want anything from me. I don’t want anything from them. We just they give me that feeling of having someone, you know, when you’re at 11 and it’s your first day of secondary school and you meet someone, you’re like, great, I can sit next to you at lunch. That’s the feeling that this person gave me from the very first time that I met them and basically stalked them to become my friend. And it’s been so cool to watch them go from performing to eight people in a tiny, damp like cellar in Edinburgh to now having a hit show on Netflix that is so critically acclaimed and so beloved that covers so many important subjects that we never get to see in a comedy series, a hugely personal stories about addiction, about sexuality. It’s the first time we ever get to see sex between two women as they were identifying in that series. And we get to see strap ons and we get to see all of the different real facets of someone discovering their sexuality. It’s so funny. It’s so full of heart. Lisa fucking Kudrow in it, which is obscene. It’s obscene that my mate has written a thing that is so good that Lisa Kudrow, who never does anything, has agreed to be in it. I really want you to see the show. It’s called Feel Good and it’s on Netflix. I watched it three times during the pandemic. I’m not saying this just because this person is my friend. I’m genuinely just so obsessed with the show. And the trailer just came out for season two, which is gonna come out on June 4th. And it is so it looks so brilliant. I cannot wait to see it. And I want to talk to you all about it when it does come out, because I’m hoping I can be a part of helping you discover Mae Martin, such a great stand up, one of the greatest voices in comedy that we have and and just such a human being, someone who is so vulnerable in their art and who recently came out as non binary and on an ongoing journey with their gender. And it’s it’s just helped so many people feel safer to talk about their gender and their gender dysphoria. And so that’s one of the things that we cover in this episode. A lot of gender dysphoria. We talk a little bit about love. We talk about addiction. We talk about their deep love of Bette Midler and childhood fantasies about her. We talk about both getting to work with Lisa Kudrow. We talk about our friendship and how we met and our dynamic, and we really just go everywhere with each other. May is such an open person and I’m so lucky to have had them on this podcast and to be able to celebrate them with you. And so that’s exactly what I’m doing right now. Please enjoy an hour of the most delightful, unassuming, intelligent and and just wondrous fairy of a human being. That is Mae Martin. Mae Martin, I think you’re one of the most talented standup comics of all time. Hello, welcome to I Weigh. [00:03:52][232.7]

Mae: [00:03:53] Oh, that’s that’s a wild thing to say. How are you? Thanks so much for having me. [00:03:58][5.4]

Jameela: [00:03:59] I, uh. I’m thrilled. I’m honored even though you’re my friend. And also, it’s really nice to see your face. It’s been such a long time. You look great. [00:04:07][7.9]

Mae: [00:04:08] Thank you. So do you. I can’t believe that we’re finally doing this. This is. I know. I feel like a long time coming. [00:04:13][4.6]

Jameela: [00:04:14] Also specifically, it’s been really hard to book you because you’re so you’re so busy. You’re writing shows, you’re you’re making TV shows, you’re acting in them as well as creating them. You’re, uh, you’re just. God it’s such it’s such a long time ago that we first met and so much has happened in both of our lives, especially your life. I would say [00:04:35][21.6]

Mae: [00:04:36] I don’t know. What are you talking about? What do you mean? I mean, you’re like a global superstar. I, I love. I like I’m so the sounds always condescending when people say they’re proud, but I’m just so proud and impressed by everything that you’re doing. And it’s just been amazing watching you stay yourself and be bizarre and funny and it’s just great. [00:04:56][19.4]

Jameela: [00:04:56] Well, thank you. I feel extremely proud of you in an equally non condescending way. I, uh, I remember the first time I saw you, you were performing at the Fringe Festival, and that was in Edinburgh. And you had had success in other countries before, especially like Canada, your your home country. But you were performing in a room of truly like eight people. There were eight people in the audience. Because that’s what Edinburgh’s like you know, you find these these huge auditoriums, then you also find these tiny rooms or cupboards that you find people doing some of the most amazing comedy you’ve ever seen in. And I and I instantly fell in love with you. It was immediate love. And then I think I stalked you basically after the show and asked you for your number. [00:05:42][45.4]

Mae: [00:05:43] No, I mean, I really specifically remember that show. And it was in a venue that was I mean, damp is such an understatement. It was actually it was actually wet. Like the walls had water coming down them. There were mice and. Yeah, just seven or eight people. And then, yeah, you waited outside and then pursued my friendship and I gratefully accepted. [00:06:04][20.7]

Jameela: [00:06:05] Yeah. Well and that led to led to a really lovely friendship in a time where I felt so new in this industry. And I think you felt quite new as well, especially in the UK. And we were able to be a kind of a sane I don’t know why the word rod is coming to my mind, but. Rod. Rod. But you. Yeah, you were a safe place for me where we could have really honest conversations about this industry, about our lives, about our love life. So much complaining to each other about very complicated love lives. [00:06:37][32.6]

Mae: [00:06:38] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. [00:06:38][0.6]

Jameela: [00:06:39] And I think you’re always going to be someone I remember so fondly is like a just a shining light of of safety and calm and no judgment. Even though you were so frantically anxious. [00:06:49][10.1]

Mae: [00:06:50] Yeah. [00:06:50][0.0]

Jameela: [00:06:51] Because So was I. But yeah. But you’re one of my favorite memories of the beginning of my career. [00:06:56][4.5]

Mae: [00:06:57] Thank you. I mean ditto, yeah, it’s rare that I’m described as calming because my energy is that of some kind of meerkat. But um, maybe that maybe that’s why it’s coming, because we had a similar energy at the time and it was like, oh God, I’m not insane. [00:07:11][14.2]

Jameela: [00:07:12] I, I want to know how you’ve been. How is your how have you been your whole life. No, first of all, I want to know how you’ve been during the last year. I know that everyone’s kind of pandemic fatigued, but I would like to know how you’ve been. [00:07:27][14.4]

Mae: [00:07:28] Yeah, I mean, up and down. I think I heard a good I don’t know if you saw it was I think when Miranda July quote where she said, being asked how you are in the pandemic is like being asked what fallings like while you’re still falling because it’s like I’m I haven’t processed it yet. It’s been so mad. But, um, yeah, I was lucky to make the second season of my show in lockdown. So that kind of saved me from serious convalescence and just lying around spiraling and, you know, apocalyptic doom spirals [00:07:57][29.7]

Jameela: [00:07:58] a hundred percent. Are these these new spirals or these old spirals that were resurfacing, [00:08:03][4.5]

Mae: [00:08:05] they were they were old ones that were due to resurface, I think. And and then when everything’s stripped away and all the distractions and, you know, I’m far from family and friends in Canada and stuff. And I think having the show come out at the start of lockdown, my show Feel Good. And then, [00:08:22][17.1]

Jameela: [00:08:23] by the way, anyone who hasn’t seen it, you have to go and say it’s one of my favorite comedies that’s on the TV. And I watched it like three times during lockdown because it was so funny and so good. Go on. Sorry. [00:08:34][11.3]

Mae: [00:08:35] Oh, no, just that. Yeah, it’s I can’t wait to go back to Canada basically to kind of process the past year with people who have known me forever, you know? [00:08:42][7.4]

Jameela: [00:08:43] how would you say your relationship with your mental health has been throughout the course of your life, considering this is a mental health podcast? I just like to go in with something light like that, you know, just ease you in. [00:08:54][10.8]

Mae: [00:08:55] You know, I don’t know if you feel this way, but I wish that growing up I’d had the language around it and and that these conversations are being had because it was only in my 20s that I heard things like anxiety and. Yeah, terms that made a lot of sense to me, I mean, I had a very tumultuous adolescence, so that was I guess I’d classify that as a bad mental health time. I was really, um, I’ve really sort of bizarre addict in my teens and really into drugs. And then, yeah, I think my thirties are going to be my decade. [00:09:32][36.5]

Jameela: [00:09:32] Yeah. [00:09:33][0.5]

Mae: [00:09:34] Yeah I feel very grounded now and I think I needed a lot of distance from from that time to kind of wrap my head around it and I think I’m getting there. [00:09:42][8.6]

Jameela: [00:09:43] Do you think you have identified where some of the causes of you’ve struggled with anxiety? Would you say you struggled with depression? [00:09:51][8.0]

Mae: [00:09:52] Sure, yeah. Yeah, why not? I mean, the main thing has been this kind of obsessive thinking and anxiety that’s manifested as addictive behavior. I think that’s been the biggest hurdle. And then now that I’ve sort of got a handle on that, then I feel that the old depresh creeping in, you know, [00:10:13][20.7]

Jameela: [00:10:16] I’m only referring to it as depresh from now on. I feel so much better. [00:10:21][5.4]

Mae: [00:10:24] A case about of depresh. [00:10:25][0.9]

Jameela: [00:10:25] Do you know where the addictsh and the depresh came from or stemmed from? [00:10:29][4.0]

Mae: [00:10:30] I don’t know. I think that’s a lifelong process of inquiry, isn’t it? Compassionate self inquiry. I don’t know. And then some days I think, does it really matter and should not just be sort of proactively taking it day by day. Sometimes it feels good to delve into the past and it’s interesting when your work is so tied up and self exploration, I don’t know. I think for a long time I thought that just doing stand up about my problems was as good as therapy. And it’s so not a no no. It’s like a one sided monologue where no one’s challenging you and you’re just kind of wallowing, you know, and and making light of things that maybe don’t feel that light about. So, yeah, therapy has been good. [00:11:14][44.5]

Jameela: [00:11:15] Do you know how old you were when you first started to feel uncomfortable? [00:11:17][2.1]

Mae: [00:11:19] Uncomfortable and. Well, there’s different ways I mean, puberty, I think was I think I don’t know how anyone got through puberty. I think it’s wild. Like the world goes from being kind of knowable and understandable, like we had Encyclopedia Britannica in my house. And I kind of it was like all the answers I needed were either there or in my parents’ brains. And then you hit puberty and you’re like, wait, I don’t know what anyone’s talking about and I don’t know what this world is and what I’m supposed to be in it. So that probably puberty and since I was a kid, I think I had I had sort of gender stuff going on and but I didn’t I was lucky I had really liberal parents who let me be myself. So I didn’t feel sort of too stressed about that. My parents were definitely cool about very open about sex and sexuality and things like that. I mean, they’re still learning to. But that was one thing that I was really lucky, just like that basic thing of I didn’t grow up hearing them say homophobic things in the house. Most people hear their parents because it’s a generational thing, mostly saying bad things and you soak them up. And I’m just lucky I didn’t. So that wasn’t an issue. Other things were issues, drugs, things like that. [00:12:40][80.6]

Jameela: [00:12:40] I like the fact that you talk about your addictive behavior, starting with Bette Midler. [00:12:44][3.9]

Mae: [00:12:45] Yeah, yeah. That was who was your Bette Midler like as a child? I mean, she consumed my life. [00:12:51][6.5]

Jameela: [00:12:52] My my Bette Midler was Tom Hanks. [00:12:55][2.5]

Mae: [00:12:56] Oh, wow. [00:12:56][0.3]

Jameela: [00:12:57] Tom Hanks was my Bette Midler. But, you know, I was, uh, I was a little bit fickle. I was a little bit of a, uh. Yeah. I couldn’t just pick one like I had I had Whoopi Goldberg and Tom Hanks and probably Hugh Grant. And I don’t know how I feel about that now, but those are like my three pin ups that were on my wall. I was in love with and obsessed with and wanted to be and wanted to meet them all. And, uh, and I’ve I’ve met kind of all three, only two and a half ready. I’ve met Tom. He was fantastic in real life, met Whoopi she was fantastic in real life. And then I didn’t really meet Hugh Grant, but I was hired to dee. Do you remember when I was a deejay back in the day? [00:13:43][45.9]

Mae: [00:13:43] Yeah. Yeah. [00:13:43][0.3]

Jameela: [00:13:44] So I was hired to deejay on a golf course,. [00:13:47][2.5]

Mae: [00:13:48] No. [00:13:48][0.0]

Jameela: [00:13:48] Only Hugh Grant was playing golf. [00:13:51][2.9]

Mae: [00:13:52] Oh, my God. [00:13:53][1.0]

Jameela: [00:13:53] It was the single. And I took the job because I heard he was going to be there. But the fucking problem is that when you’re deejaying on a golf course, they just keep moving further and further away from you every time they do well. So he just became this little Hugh Grant, but just a dot to me by the end of the day. So I never got to meet him, but I did. D.J., extremely inappropriate and misogynistic, uh, 90s rap and hip hop for him on a on a predominantly empty golf course. [00:14:25][32.0]

Mae: [00:14:26] Oh my God. I wonder if, like, when the wind changed, you just caught a whiff of his cologne from, like, a mile away. [00:14:31][4.7]

Jameela: [00:14:34] Yeah. But yea. So that’s those are my Bette Midlers. Talk to me about your Bette Midler addiction please. [00:14:38][4.0]

Mae: [00:14:39] Well, I just think that was the beginnings of, I guess the official definition of an addiction is when you’re you’re doing something compulsively despite it having negative consequences in your day to day life and you can’t stop. So because most things I mean we all self soothe with various things. But if if it’s actually having negative consequences, then that and Bette Midler was really like I was doing badly in school because I was just thinking about her all the time. I was like you to I’d have like a you know, a French project to do and I’d find a way to connect it to her. It was really yeah. My my parents had to confiscate all my Bette Midler CDs because I was just playing them on the house on repeat [00:15:17][38.8]

Jameela: [00:15:19] oh my God, I didn’t realize it was this intense. [00:15:21][2.7]

Mae: [00:15:22] Yeah. I mean I am over it but yeah. [00:15:24][1.8]

Jameela: [00:15:25] Are you though? Are you ever really over it. Have you ever met Bette Midler. [00:15:28][3.7]

Mae: [00:15:29] Never. And I did a standup special where I did talk about kind of intense sexual fantasy about her. [00:15:35][6.0]

Jameela: [00:15:35] I’m sorry, what was the intense sexual fantasy? [00:15:38][2.4]

Mae: [00:15:39] Oh, it’s just, you know, Hocus Pocus that movie? [00:15:40][1.8]

Jameela: [00:15:41] Yes, I do. [00:15:41][0.4]

Mae: [00:15:42] So when I was about six, I mean, it wasn’t even it wasn’t even sexual because I was six, but it was just the sort of vibey dream where I was naked and all those three witches had kidnaped me. So I and I would always want to have that dream. So I’d like rushed to bed trying to have that dream. Anyway. So I think a lot of people tweeted that at her and I hope she hasn’t seen it. I haven’t had any feedback from her, but. [00:16:04][22.1]

Jameela: [00:16:04] Oh I hope she has. And if I ever meet her, I’m going to immediately direct her to anything I can find. [00:16:08][3.7]

Mae: [00:16:08] I would die. I would die. [00:16:11][2.8]

Jameela: [00:16:12] If I ever get her on this podcast, would you also come on and be a third guest? [00:16:15][3.8]

Mae: [00:16:16] I just lurk and I’ll just mute myself and lurk. [00:16:19][2.6]

Jameela: [00:16:23] I um, when you were talking about sexuality, you actually brought her up where you were like, I’m a big advocate of the idea that ambiguity of the idea of not knowing who you are, who you love, where to put your hands when you sleep, or why Bette Midler stirred such longing in a six year old Canadian child it’s fine. [00:16:36][12.8]

Mae: [00:16:36] Yeah, yeah. [00:16:39][3.6]

Jameela: [00:16:41] I love that. I love that so intensely. [00:16:42][1.2]

Mae: [00:16:44] I think there’s got to be more nuance and ambiguity and sexuality for sure. [00:16:50][5.9]

Jameela: [00:16:50] I agree. And I also love what you’ve been talking about regarding sexuality over the last couple of years, I mean, you’ve even written a book about it, but talking about how so many of us think something like 40 percent did you say of of young people don’t even subscribe to sexuality necessarily. [00:17:08][18.1]

Mae: [00:17:09] To labels in that way yeah. So I think the next generation’s coming up for you know, I think this is a wave that is not going to be diverted any time soon, I think, of people rejecting those kind of quite narrow definitions and boundaries, but I mean, we’re in a tricky transitional time, I think, because those labels, I think, are still important in some way to communicate and to fight for still tenuous rights and things like that. So it feels a little bit sort of naive to be like we’re all just human beings. But I do hope for moving that way because it is it is wild. And I’ve always felt that way, like there’s no particular label that I particularly identify with. [00:17:51][41.8]

Jameela: [00:17:51] One hundred percent. I feel exactly the same way. And I, I agree with you in that. And these aren’t your exact words. But essentially, if we could all just start at a blur, if we could all just start at a I don’t know. It would remove the fear of having to come out. It would remove the persecution. It would remove so much of the bigotry and misunderstanding or trying to understand, trying to figure each other out, trying to put each other in boxes. If we could all just start the gray area. And yeah, to continue that, then our lives would be so much freer. I was so I, I was so consumed with trying to hide my sexuality for so much of my life, being South Asian and then also being in an industry where I just felt as though I would then just be pigeonholed entirely if I came out about my sexuality at all. It was such a painful part of growing up and I can’t believe it took me till I was 34 to actually publicly own that. It went really well. I don’t know if you saw, but it went really well. [00:18:55][63.5]

Mae: [00:18:59] I thought it was awesome. And I think it’s oh my God, the amount of time that people waste, you know, worrying about, you know, who who they’re who they want to love and be attracted to. It’s insane. It’s so and the fact that we just assume everyone straight, that’s our baseline with babies that are just born, you kind of assume they’re straight. And then if they’re not, they they have to tell you the onus is on them to go actually, you know, that’s that’s crazy. And yeah, I think I read a good definition of bisexuality the other day that was like it’s recognizing within yourself the potential to be attracted to more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily to the same degree. I feel like loads of people fit into that category and [00:19:43][44.7]

Jameela: [00:19:44] one hundred percent [00:19:44][0.4]

Mae: [00:19:45] so many people. But there’s a real fear around the label of it. There’s still tons of bi phobia and, you know, from both within the community and out of it. And it’s just all a big mess. And I just wish we could all be super horny and get with each other you know. [00:19:59][13.9]

Jameela: [00:19:59] I fully support that movement and the cult that you want to start I’ll join. You also brought up so many interesting facts, things that I’d never considered and also just so much about the history of of gender fluidity, the history of sexuality being something that we didn’t legalize or make whatever criminalize or legalize, etc.. You brought up this fantastic point around hypocrisy where you said in twenty eighteen India decriminalized homosexuality and we celebrated it over here, meaning England. But England went into India and criminalized homosexuality in 1856. [00:20:40][40.8]

Mae: [00:20:42] Yeah, yeah. That blew my mind. I read that. [00:20:44][2.7]

Jameela: [00:20:45] I didn’t know that. And I know. And from there [00:20:47][2.1]

Mae: [00:20:48] I know and I remember all the British press was kind of smug being like, oh well done, India. You finally legalized it, but it’s took you long enough. And it’s like that’s such gaslighting because we literally went into India and criminalized it. And that’s true all over the world in so many cultures, this kind of Western colonialism that has just bulldozed over all of these gender variances and ancient, you know, tons of cultures that recognize multiple genders. [00:21:17][28.8]

Jameela: [00:21:17] You came out recently as non binary in a more public sense, and you did that just before. I guess it was your you were about to do a big promotion run, yet you didn’t want to be mis gendered or labeled in a certain way. [00:21:33][16.1]

Mae: [00:21:34] Yeah, this fresh. This is very very fresh. [00:21:34][0.6]

Jameela: [00:21:34] This is hot off the press,. [00:21:36][2.0]

Mae: [00:21:37] Hot off the press. [00:21:37][0.0]

Jameela: [00:21:37] Would you feel comfortable about talking to me about just what was the decision behind speaking out about it now? [00:21:44][6.9]

Mae: [00:21:46] I think, um. It was because. So many people asked me about it and people either, um, well, I think it was that my whole life that I can ever remember. I’ve I’ve not had the language to express how I was feeling because I didn’t I didn’t really feel. Like a boy, but I definitely would cringe every time someone would refer to me as a girl and I was I’ve always been very androgynous and it felt like much more than just being, for example, like a sort of masculine presenting woman, and that everything that’s ever been written about me is sort of referred to me in that way. And I just haven’t had the language for it. And then I’ve been reading and learning more and experiencing increasingly as I get older, this kind of acute gender dysphoria where I feel. Yeah, I’ve been struggling with a bit, so then. [00:22:41][55.5]

Jameela: [00:22:42] Can I ask you but for anyone out there who doesn’t know there might be a maybe a kid who’s just picked up this podcast for the first time, would you explain what you understand gender dysphoria to be? [00:22:51][9.8]

Mae: [00:22:52] Yeah, for me, I think, like, for instance, I’ve just had laser eye surgery. So I’m I’m very most people walking around not aware of their eyeballs in their head. I’m constantly aware of my eyeballs at the moment. They feel weird in my head. They’re itchy. That’s how I feel about gender kind of I’m aware of it constantly. And it’s like having something stuck in your shoe or like. You know, and we live in such a gendered world where I go out of the house in the morning, I buy my coffee, they’re like, thank you, ma’am, or thank you, sir. Like everyone’s obsessed with constantly. It’s such a sort of identifier and. These categories are still so, so pronounced and so I’m constantly bumping up against it and feeling like just kind of a square peg in a round hole, kind of. So that’s kind of how I would explain it. You know? Yeah, certain, like pictures of myself and things like that, and also being in the industry and having things written about you all the time or being, yeah, it was just starting to feel like this is not. Yeah, I haven’t. It’s not how I feel. So then I think through writing Feel Good and writing an autobiographical story about someone that is going through that, it kind of forced me to be like, well, what am I going to do about it? I hadn’t I was writing the second series during lockdown, having all these feelings. And it was the first time that I was like, I, I definitely am non binary. That’s definitely a thing. And that might change in the future. I might feel like I’m, you know, want to go further in that direction or I’m on a different point in that spectrum. But it definitely has never felt right to be to say that I’m a woman. But I don’t know. I haven’t even talked to my parents about that yet. I don’t know if I will. I think they’ll read some article and it’ll be nice and fine. [00:24:42][110.4]

Jameela: [00:24:43] I think they’re big fans of this podcast. So maybe just finding out right this second, you talk about the fact that wearing a binder and you actually wear a binder and Feel Good. And I found that very revolutionary to see that in a TV show and the use of binders and strapons and all of these things that feel very hidden normally in comedy, even though they’re such a normal part of so many people’s lives and I [00:25:09][25.9]

Mae: [00:25:09] I mean strap ons people need to get into. I mean, straight women need to get into the wearing strap on with their boyfriends like they’re fun. People need to get more into strap ons because it’s happening, you know. [00:25:19][10.0]

Jameela: [00:25:20] Yeah. Strap ons are happening you heard it here first. Love a strap on. Can’t get can’t get pregnant from a strap on. [00:25:27][7.6]

Mae: [00:25:28] Yeah exactly. [00:25:29][0.9]

Jameela: [00:25:30] Pretty bloody brilliant if that’s something you’re trying to avoid in your life. I think that’s I think that’s excellent. And I also love you so much for just putting all of these things around sexuality and around sex and using using the sex toys and using the binder. Will you explain what a binder is. [00:25:49][19.3]

Mae: [00:25:51] I just got into them. I mean, it’s just a very tight vest, basically. And I just found this company and I’d read about people using them. And it just [00:26:01][10.4]

Jameela: [00:26:02] Sort of flattens it flattens the chest to kind of to remove, I guess mostly the breast section. [00:26:11][8.6]

Mae: [00:26:12] Yeah, exactly. [00:26:12][0.3]

Jameela: [00:26:12] Reduce the breast section. And to give you more of a I guess a neutral shape. [00:26:17][5.0]

Mae: [00:26:18] Yeah. And a lot of people feel know differently on any given day about, uh, about how they’re feeling in their body and stuff. And also your body can change hormonally throughout the month and stuff. So it’s just a useful thing if you don’t want to, if you’re feeling bad and you don’t want to have, you know, jump into surgery or something. Yeah. So I think a lot of people use them. I don’t know if I haven’t been using it very much, to be honest, but doing photo shoots and stuff, I find it helpful. [00:26:49][31.1]

Jameela: [00:26:50] Yeah. You wore one recently in a photo shoot where you’re not wearing it under anything, you’re just wearing it and you were promoting the company that make them. And this was around the same time that you were announcing the fact that you are non binary. And again, I just find it fucking I know it’s not revolutionary. And I don’t mean to turn you into Greta Thunberg of non binary people. I know that they are not a monolith and you are not their spokesperson now and you’re still figuring this out. But, you know, we were talking earlier about being proud of each other, but I feel so incredibly proud of you because as an anxious and sometimes self-conscious person, I know how massive that was for you to do and for you to announce, even though you weren’t talking about it with any kind of certainty or in perpetuity. I’m I really fucking admire it because it meant so much to so many people when you did it. [00:27:39][48.5]

Mae: [00:27:40] That’s really nice. I think part of it, too, is I didn’t want to have to have a million little conversations with even friends of mine I haven’t spoken to about it and stuff. So I thought, I’ll just put it out there. And then, yeah, the response was so positive on Instagram. And then I did the bad thing of Google, of Googling it online and reading the comment sections on like The Sun newspaper, and that was not good. [00:28:01][21.3]

Jameela: [00:28:02] That’s weird because normally it’s full of really educated, thoughtful people who just want the best for everyone. You didn’t name search yourself on Twitter, did you? Mae. [00:28:11][8.6]

Mae: [00:28:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah I did yeah. [00:28:12][0.7]

Jameela: [00:28:13] Oh, I see my kind of self harm. You did that in a pandemic on your own. [00:28:17][4.1]

Mae: [00:28:18] Yeah. But how can people not how can you resist that? [00:28:20][2.5]

Jameela: [00:28:21] Name searching is something that you’d look anyone would do it because we’re all just kids we’re all just massive kids with big bills who are still at school and nothing feels more like school than twitter. [00:28:33][11.8]

Mae: [00:28:34] Oh my God. Yeah. I got to get off that. I actually my phone was stolen the other day, like ripped out of my hand by a guy on a motorcycle. [00:28:41][6.7]

Jameela: [00:28:41] Shit. [00:28:41][0.0]

Mae: [00:28:42] Yeah. It was so stressful but quite cool as well. Like he was, he was quite cool. I thought in a way. I mean I know it, I know it was bad but it was just so smooth. It was one clean movement. And anyway, so then I ran to the phone shop and just in total phone withdrawal right away, and then I got sold on like a phone watch now, so I’m going to bring that out because it doesn’t have social media on it. So I’m going to just leave the house with the watch, leave my phone at home. I think that will be good for me. [00:29:09][26.3]

Jameela: [00:29:09] Yeah. I think that would be great for you. Only you would somehow, like, find a way to. And I’m not saying you necessarily did this, but make yourself feel inferior to the man that just robbed you like that was so cool. [00:29:20][10.5]

Mae: [00:29:21] What if I say I kind of fancy them? I mean, because he wasn’t he wasn’t violent. He just snatched the phone really smoothly and he’d ridden his motorcycle up onto the pavement, like on the sidewalk beside me, which come on, let’s just [00:29:34][13.6]

Jameela: [00:29:34] He did it all by himself. [00:29:35][0.9]

Mae: [00:29:36] Yeah, he was on a motorcycle and he just rode by me and voop out of my hand [00:29:40][3.6]

Jameela: [00:29:41] that is quite sexy and is a hugely problematic of both of us right now to encourage that behavior. [00:29:45][4.3]

Mae: [00:29:47] I know I know I don’t condone [00:29:47][0.4]

Jameela: [00:29:48] it’s the agility of it. It’s very Angelina Jolie. I feel like Angelina could do that and I’d be absolutely fine with it. You told me this the other day and knocked my fucking socks off. I didn’t know that you get asked about your gender in the fucking toilets. Walk walk me through that conversation. [00:30:12][23.6]

Mae: [00:30:13] It’s angry, middle aged white women. And they’re saying that. They’re saying. This is the women’s toilet, you shouldn’t be in here and, you know, you’re a man and things like that, but this happens so much more recently, I think, because of the awful, like fraught conversation around trans women using bathrooms and so, yeah, so I’ve noticed a real upswing in people challenging me in bathrooms. So, yeah, it’s annoying. I went to a pub and this is years ago now, but in Islington, in London and in the course of like 15 minutes, I arrived and I went to the toilet. And this group, this hen party came in like a bachelorette party and they were wasted and they were like they were harassing me. And then I went to the toilet. They’re like, chanting dyke at me through the toilet wall. [00:31:02][48.7]

Jameela: [00:31:02] Oh my god. [00:31:03][0.2]

Mae: [00:31:03] Yeah I know. But then but this is not like a sob story. It is just quite funny because I then left and I’m sitting next to my friend Berdy, who’s a very nice boy, and he sort of had his arm around me and and because I was feeling stressed by these women. And then as soon as he puts his arm around me and this guy walks by and goes faggots, it’s like I literally I’ve been here for 15 minutes and I’ve been called a dike and the fagot and it’s literally. Yeah. So I just hope by being like, I’m this I’m non binary. It’s just other people can be less confused about it and stressed, you know what I mean. [00:31:37][34.3]

Jameela: [00:31:38] Yeah, I do. I mean, I almost feel guilty even talking to you about it right now because you must be so exhausted from thinking about it your entire life and then having to talk about it and writing about it and doing stand up about it and then putting it into your show. But the reason, I guess I want to is just because I think so many people still feel so stuck and still feel so lost and because there is this rise in transphobia in in every kind of possible bigotry regarding sexuality and gender, I think it’s deliberately on the rise, in order to push down this this wave, they can see of increasing young people starting to realize their true identity, the sooner we all divorce these labels, the better. Do you find comedy has been a really helpful way for you to help understand yourself just as a human being, as a way to kind of figure that out and and find a way to make it easily ingestible to other people? [00:32:33][55.3]

Mae: [00:32:34] Yeah, I love I love comedy, I really miss I’ve missed doing standup this year because I think it helps me crystallize my thoughts and opinions and things like that. Um, yeah, absolutely. I think it’s been a lifeline. [00:32:46][11.3]

Jameela: [00:32:46] Will you talk to me about how you first got into it, because I love the story so much. [00:32:50][3.1]

Mae: [00:32:51] I mean, I was just always obsessed with Jim Carrey, obsessed with Ace Ventura. So, yeah. And then when I was about 11, I got taken to a stand up comedy club and I was dressed in a suede waistcoat and a bow tie. And I sat in the front row and every comedian that came out was like referencing the fact that there was a child in the front row and making fun of me. I was loving it. And then the headliner came up and he got me up on stage and he made me sit on his lap and be his ventriloquist dummy. But he thought I was a boy. So he’s making me say all these like filthy things about Pamela Anderson. It was the 90s, you know, so I was and people were loving it. And yeah. So that was kind of my first experience. So I was hooked. I just thought it was the most I thought these people were just the most powerful, impressive rock stars I’d ever seen. [00:33:43][51.8]

Jameela: [00:33:44] There’s also one of the first times, I guess, in your life that you’d seen people get up and talk about the most intimate and quote unquote, flawed parts of themselves and be adored and applauded for it, which you are a kid who feels uncomfortable in their skin. I can imagine that that would just seem like a fucking superpower. [00:33:59][15.6]

Mae: [00:34:00] Yeah, it’s just the antithesis of high school, isn’t it? It’s so I started doing standup when I was 13 professionally and then dropped out of school when I was 15 to do it full time. And it was definitely that. It was because I’d found this group of people who were yeah being applauded for everything that was different and weird. And, you know, in high school, you’re kind of just trying to fit in and yeah it was great. [00:34:20][19.5]

Jameela: [00:34:20] How was high school for you. [00:34:22][2.1]

Mae: [00:34:23] I didn’t really go very much to be honest. [00:34:24][1.0]

Jameela: [00:34:25] Yeah, that’s true. You left. You left at fifteen. [00:34:27][1.9]

Mae: [00:34:28] I mean, even when I was there, I wasn’t all there, you know. Yeah. [00:34:31][2.7]

Jameela: [00:34:31] Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I yeah, I had a shitty time at school. I’m not going to bore everyone or you with that. But if anyone’s been listening to this podcast for a while, they’ve heard me moan about the girls at school many, many times. I had the shittest time. And I guess this industry has felt like school again. And I guess that’s kind of what it felt like meeting you was like when you meet someone that you can, you know, you can sit and eat lunch with, it’s that that feeling of that relief. And I’m sure people still got it when they join a new job. So, fuck, I found someone spend my lunch break with. Fantastic. You feel like an eleven year old all over again. [00:35:06][35.2]

Mae: [00:35:07] Totally. I mean, in school, it’s people that are you would often never choose to be friends with. It’s just circumstance that’s brought you there. Yeah, I um. I was never bullied or anything. I just was sort of distracted and thinking about comedy and other things. And I just felt this insane kind of claustrophobia being there. And like, I wanted to be out and I, I wanted to grow up fast, you know, I wanted to be partying, partying and. [00:35:31][24.1]

Jameela: [00:35:32] But you did start partying really young, right? Because you one of the big themes in Feel Good, I mean, of course, we touched on the fact that you are dating a woman who, until this point in her life, is always maybe identified as straight. And she’s in her first relationship with another woman. And, uh, and we go through the complexities of that relationship and her getting accustomed to being in that relationship. I don’t want to give too much away from the show for anyone who hasn’t seen it. But her difficulty and maybe even like coming out to her friends and introducing your character to the people in her life, we go through all of that. But we also touch on addiction so much, which we briefly spoke about earlier on. And we got derailed by Bette Midler, which is completely fair because she is a queen. I would love to talk a little bit more about that, because I think especially in the last year, addiction came up massively for so many people because there were no distractions. Some people didn’t have access to the thing they were addicted to or some people had too much access and time of the thing they were addicted to. And it’s something that my audience right to me around a lot is asking me to talk about addiction, because it’s something that they’re struggling with. And again, we always look at it only as a drug thing. And I know that you you’re around 16 when you developed a drug addiction, [00:36:45][72.3]

Mae: [00:36:46] I think young, a lot younger, I think. But I think, yeah, we often think about addiction as like junkies and gutters and stuff. And so people it’s really easy to go, oh, those people have something wrong with them. And, you know, I can’t really relate to that experience, but, um, I think everyone’s most people have had the experience of self soothing with something that is not great for them. And, you know, it’s a cliche to mention it, but like, we are all addicted to our phones so, so much. And, um, yeah. So I think, yeah, I got into drugs really young and I was hanging out with people who are much, much older and there’s a lot of a lot of coke at the time and in the comedy scene in Toronto. And um. Yeah, I just I mean, [00:37:30][44.6]

Jameela: [00:37:31] how old were you the first time you took coke? Do you mind me asking? [00:37:33][2.0]

Mae: [00:37:34] I think it’s 15, just turned 15, but I’ve been smoking a lot of weed and, you know, but I wonder if I would have found drugs at high school anyway. I mean, I think I did, but it was definitely largely to do with sort of dating older men and trying to impress them and. And that kind of thing, yeah, I’m glad I got a lot of that out of my system that I went I went to rehab in my late, late teens and then yeah [00:37:56][21.8]

Jameela: [00:37:57] And it created like a friction between you and your parents for a while when you were young. [00:38:01][4.0]

Mae: [00:38:02] Yeah, I got kicked out when I was about sixteen and yeah, we’re really, really close now. And I’ve been able to talk about all that stuff, but for a long time is very, very fraught. But I think it was in my 20s that I was like, oh, I’ve been in drugs and I’m all good. And I hadn’t realized that I’d really just transferred that addictive behavior into other aspects of my life, like relationships and, um. Now, maybe work like I’m I’m kind of a workaholic, but I think I’ve got a handle on it. I’m I’m self-aware enough now to sort of notice when I’m getting like that about things. [00:38:38][35.7]

Jameela: [00:38:38] Can I ask what you do to be able to manage your addictions? [00:38:41][2.6]

Mae: [00:38:42] Well. I’m in my 20s, I’ve gone to meetings and. So NA meetings, comedy, uh. Just trying to be social and connect with lots of people and be, you know, and exercise and things like that, but, you know, it’s a daily thing, I think about drugs maybe every day. And that’s I. I wonder if that will ever go away, because that would be nice. [00:39:05][22.7]

Jameela: [00:39:07] I don’t know, I wonder I think I feel the same way about my eating disorder and that like I know I’ve kind of definitely got a full handle handle on it and I think I’ve controlled it. But I but those those thoughts those triggers exist all around me constantly. And I massively commend you for being able to fight addiction when in such a drug fueled industry. As I said, I don’t know how you’ve managed to do. It’s the same thing with an eating disorder. It’s so hard for me to maintain my hold over, no I’m still going to eat the fucking pizza, even if I have a fitting this week. Even if I have a photo shoot this week, even if I, you know, and the normalization of the the eating disorder language around me, because all of these actresses, all of these models are all on the fucking craziest diets you’ve ever had to be able to achieve these bodies that they then go and Photoshop to look even more insane online. All you hear about is normalized our culture of eating a cake. People feel the need to comment on you. So I find it a real it’s been a real journey learning how to control that that evil voice in my head telling me to jump back in. I don’t know how you’ve done it with addiction in comedy because it’s it is just [00:40:20][73.2]

Mae: [00:40:21] this is you know, it’s better than it was. And I also have really geeky friends and I just I’m really they’re really sweet and protective. So that’s helpful. I have a good, like sort of support network. But yeah, I mean, you can check in with me in a year and see. [00:40:36][14.6]

Jameela: [00:40:40] I think it’s important. I think I spoke about this briefly with Demi Lovato when she was on this podcast. I’ll just drop that name. I’ll pick it back up but we she talked about the fact that, you know, it’s like an ongoing process, like you just don’t know where you’re going to be. And I think it’s really important that people don’t hold you to a certain expectation. They just wish the best for you. It’s something that you’re battling all of the time. What was your addiction to? Do you mind talking about what your addiction to relationships was like? [00:41:06][26.2]

Mae: [00:41:07] Yeah, that’s sort of the the main arc of the show is is this is you know, where where love and addiction intercepts and those things. I think a lot of people have had the experience of being in a relationship with someone who you’re really viscerally drawn to and attracted to, but they sort of turn you into this kind of paranoid, obsessive texting like it just is very unstable and destabilizing and roller coaster-y. And, um, so I think I spent a good chunk of my twenties in relationships like that where you just. Yeah, I wonder what that’s about. Maybe it’s when you get in those cycles with someone who where the relationship is creating this huge anxiety and you’re always in some drama, but then then periodically it soothes because you know you know what I mean. So it becomes quite toxic and intoxicating. If someone’s making you feel destabilized and then being like, oh, it’s all good, I love you, [00:42:04][56.5]

Jameela: [00:42:04] and then pushing you away again, pulling you back and pushing you away again, [00:42:07][2.8]

Mae: [00:42:08] to be honest, it’s very appealing and [00:42:10][1.4]

Jameela: [00:42:10] I mean, to me it sounds like fucking hell. [00:42:13][3.1]

Mae: [00:42:15] It’s hell. I think I now I’m a lot more sort of I don’t think I’ll ever be in a relationship like that again. But I still do feel drawn to that kind of excitement for sure. But I. I definitely want stability yeah. [00:42:27][12.0]

Jameela: [00:42:28] It’s the discomfort and it’s also the addiction to shame. I think I had a really big addiction to shame for a lot of my life. I’ve been an addict my whole life. Like I’m addicted to different things. The only reason I’ve never been addicted to hard drugs is because I’ve never tried hard drugs. But I know I would like I definitely can’t. I can’t have cough syrup more than twice in one week. Otherwise there’s a slippery slope into like I’m just like I Lil Wayne is so deep inside my persona. Like he’s like he’s he’s in there like he’s in my soul. I am Lil Wayne deep down. And I know that. And so I have to be so careful with substances I take you know, I was addicted to Valium between the age of 11 and twenty one. And it’s not an addictive substance. It’s not the substance I was addicted to. It’s the feeling I was addicted to. I was addicted to the shame of overeating, you know, and the way that that would make me feel. And so I think it’s really important to to talk about it being able to shape shift so quickly and so easily and so sneakily. So that people can help identify it. [00:43:34][66.4]

Mae: [00:43:36] Yeah. There’s this um oh God. OK, I think it’s Emily Dickinson. This is so pretentious. I’m dropping a poem here. [00:43:43][7.2]

Jameela: [00:43:43] It’s fine. I dropped like Demi Lovato. You can drop Emily Dickinson. [00:43:47][3.9]

Mae: [00:43:48] I remember reading this and it probably wasn’t even her, was probably Sylvia Plath or something, but it was really Kesha. And the quote was when the skeleton of habit alone upholds the human frame and it stuck [00:44:01][13.3]

Jameela: [00:44:02] Wait. Let me stop. Stop. Let me take that and say again, slower, because I’m a bit thick. [00:44:06][4.2]

Mae: [00:44:07] When the skeleton of habit alone upholds the human frame, it just made me think about when you are doing things on a kind of rote unthinking level and you’re just getting up and doing this, these habits and you sort of become this robotic skeleton. And that’s what I thought of. So I never want to be that just doing things because I am compelled to. I always want to be making the choice. [00:44:31][24.1]

Jameela: [00:44:32] And do you think you’re still kind of do you do you have you still go to meetings and stuff? [00:44:37][4.2]

Mae: [00:44:38] Yeah, I haven’t. And I have in this year in lockdown because I find the online was quite stressful. I tried a few and [00:44:44][6.6]

Jameela: [00:44:46] Are they on camera. [00:44:46][0.4]

Mae: [00:44:48] You can, you can have your camera off but yeah. I don’t know, I want to be back in a room with people. Yeah I do, I do find them helpful but I’m not like a 12, like I still drink occasionally and I’m not I’m. I’m about. What’s it called? I’ve gone blank. [00:45:04][15.8]

Jameela: [00:45:04] That’s alright. [00:45:06][2.4]

Mae: [00:45:06] Harm, harm reduction. Yeah, I follow a harm reduction model that was the rehab I went to. It’s just kind of this kind of less intense than the 12 step program. [00:45:17][11.1]

Jameela: [00:45:19] Oh fair enough. Do you still have a sponsor for that? [00:45:20][1.1]

Mae: [00:45:21] I don’t have a sponsor. [00:45:21][0.6]

Jameela: [00:45:22] OK. [00:45:22][0.0]

Mae: [00:45:23] Yeah. I’m just I’m I think it works for so many people, the 12 step program. But I’m wary of and I do go to those meetings and I take a lot from them and I just I just don’t take all of it because I find it I’m wary of, like, constantly saying out loud, I’m an addict, I’m an addict and reinforcing, you know. [00:45:40][17.7]

Jameela: [00:45:41] I think it’s a very individual thing. I think everyone’s addiction takes place in different ways for different reasons. And I think everyone’s coping mechanism is different. It’s the same thing with eating disorders. [00:45:49][7.9]

Mae: [00:45:50] Definitely. And there’s things I would never touch again. And but yeah, I feel able to have a drink once in a while. [00:45:56][5.6]

Jameela: [00:45:56] Yeah. And that’s fine. And that’s great. And it’s also fluid and transient and and it’s no one else’s business. And I probably shouldn’t have asked. I was just curious because I wanted to know what those meetings are like. I’ve never been to one and I really wish I had throughout my 20 because. Because I had because I was so high functioning. No one could spot that I. And also because you can so easily put a label on a lot of the things that I had, like, oh, that’s an eating disorder or that’s obsessive compulsive disorder or that’s all she has got a binge purge disorder, which again, no one even knew about. But because there were simple labels that I could WebMD and put on myself. I didn’t realize that the underlying through the through line of my life is that I’m addicted to shame. I’m addicted to discomfort. I’m I’m addicted, which I think is why now I make a whole podcast and an Instagram account and a whole big mess of myself online, just obsessively trying to divorce myself from shame because it’s been the underlying dictator in my life. [00:46:54][58.7]

Mae: [00:46:56] Yeah. And I think openness, which then leads to human connection, is it’s the only real solution, I think. And I think that’s what those rooms and meetings are about, as well as just hearing people, people from totally different backgrounds and lives. And they’re saying things that you’ve literally written in your diary that morning, like, you know, people having the same feelings. It’s so cathartic, I think, and connecting with people. [00:47:19][23.2]

Jameela: [00:47:26] I think it’s amazing and I think you’re doing amazingly and and I and I really honor your commitment to continuing to just keep an eye on it and see where your addiction has shape shifted to. And I love the fact that you’re putting it into your art. Will you tell us about when and Feel Good season two starts? [00:47:40][14.0]

Mae: [00:47:41] Feel Good two comes out June 4th. [00:47:44][2.2]

Jameela: [00:47:46] Oh my god so soon. [00:47:46][0.3]

Mae: [00:47:47] I’m absolutely terrified and so excited for people to see it. It’s by the way, I feel like we’ve talked about all these heavy things. I just want to reiterate. Feel Good’s a comedy. It’s got it’s got Lisa Kudrow. It’s very silly as well and yeah. [00:48:00][13.1]

Jameela: [00:48:00] You and I were talking about that on the phone, that those two little shits that used to just go and find different places that we could both go and eat chips at, because I think you were vegan at the time were you vegan? [00:48:09][9.6]

Mae: [00:48:10] Maybe. I think for a week. [00:48:10][0.1]

Jameela: [00:48:10] I think you were a vegan at the time and I was gluten free. So the thing that we could always agree on sharing together as food was just chips. We would eat chips wherever we would go. That was our thing. Just hot chips. Yeah. And and to think that those two little shits look around Edinburgh sharing hot chips have both grown up to be able to act with Lisa Kudrow at some point. What a weird degree of separation [00:48:36][25.5]

Mae: [00:48:37] It’s so surreal. [00:48:38][0.4]

Jameela: [00:48:39] She’s such a legend and a hero of mine. I can’t believe she was on your show. What the fuck did that feel like standing opposite of her for the first time in a show that you wrote? [00:48:46][7.0]

Mae: [00:48:46] Bizarre. Bizarre and and we wrote it with her in mind, but only because it’s easier to write with someone in mind. We never we weren’t planning on sending her the scripts or anything because we were like, how humiliating. She won’t read them. And then someone said, just send them on, you know, why not? And she got back in touch right away. I couldn’t believe it. It blew my mind. And it’s like I mean, friends is like the Star Wars of comedy. It’s just part of the cultural landscape. It’s woven into who I am. I know the rhythms of it so well. Like, I remember her cracking up during a take and hearing the laugh that I’ve heard on friends bloopers that I’ve watched on YouTube just to cheer myself up like [00:49:21][34.6]

Jameela: [00:49:22] Is it the one where I wait because I watch Friends bloopers a lot as well, because I’m I’m so obsessed with Lisa Kudrow is at where Ross is playing the bagpipes. [00:49:29][7.1]

Mae: [00:49:30] Ah the best [00:49:30][0.5]

Jameela: [00:49:31] and she starts fucking she’s trying to sing and Jennifer Aniston starts losing her shit with laughter in the background. And then so so does Phoebe, such as Lisa Kudrow. Did you say you heard that laugh on set? [00:49:43][12.0]

Mae: [00:49:43] Yeah, hearing that laugh and being like, oh my God, that’s the blooper laugh. And now I have a blooper with it with me and Lisa Kudrow having what could be better. [00:49:52][8.3]

Jameela: [00:49:53] I am because I worked with her just after you did she she gave me a glowing review of working with you. [00:49:59][6.0]

Mae: [00:49:59] Oh really? [00:49:59][0.1]

Jameela: [00:49:59] And how curious she was to see how the show would turn out and how excited she was about it. And she does practically nothing. She just herself almost nothing. So go us for her to work with the queen that is Lisa Kudrow. [00:50:14][14.1]

Mae: [00:50:14] I know. [00:50:14][0.2]

Jameela: [00:50:15] Can you tell us anything about this season that you want us to know in particular, other than the fact that it is funny? I promise everyone it’s really, really funny and so full of heart. And I learned so much and it is genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, genuinely one of my favorite comedies I think I’ve ever seen. [00:50:30][15.0]

Mae: [00:50:31] Thank you. Um, I guess, you know, because we always knew it was just going to be two seasons. So if you’re just coming to it now, what you’ve got is like a complete love story that’s told in twelve episodes. And I think it’s quite juicy. You know, I’m into the second season. I think the first season was these two chaotic characters in this quite toxic relationship and the second season they’re kind of having to figure out how they can be individuals within that relationship and figuring out if they can transform the toxicity into something slightly more tenable. But there’s lots of fit stuff in it. I think it’s fun. [00:51:08][37.3]

Jameela: [00:51:10] Fit as in sexy. [00:51:11][0.5]

Mae: [00:51:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, lots of tears, lots of laughs, lots of fit stuff. [00:51:19][7.5]

Jameela: [00:51:20] OK, great. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to have more people to watch this show. I was so annoyed and so grateful at the same time that it came out during a pandemic because I wanted even more people to hear about it. But loads of people did. And it was so well reviewed and I’m so fucking proud of you. And everything you do is well reviewed. And I’m just I’m in awe of you, I’m in love with I got you here on this podcast to tell you today. Does it does it feel amazing to have so like this so much of you and I guess you say it’s you ten years ago that was in Feel Good. Does it feel cathartic to have, you know, stand up is only it’s half an hour to an hour in which you get to tell so many different stories. It’s so rare that you ever get the chance in life, even as an entertainer, to really tell the fuller story of how you feel or who you are. And I know that it’s like half truth, half creation. But has it been cathartic to be able to, like, fully realize the version of yourself that you wanted to tell? [00:52:19][59.1]

Mae: [00:52:20] Yeah, I think I can’t overstate what a like what a dream come true. Yeah. And also growing up, like, just desperate to be the leading man and get the girl in to make this fantasy fantasy version where I get to pretend to be, you know, the the hero of a story. It was just incredibly thrilling. And I think everybody walks around with all kinds of these things going on in their head and carrying various shames and, you know, traumas and issues. And if you never see yourself reflected on screen, you can feel really alienated. And growing up, I just didn’t I didn’t see the type of sex I was having on screen. I didn’t see people that looked like me, except maybe Ellen or. [00:52:59][38.9]

Jameela: [00:53:01] Yeah Ellen and you you’re the same. You’re exactly the same. What are you complaining about? [00:53:06][4.5]

Mae: [00:53:07] Literally this morning when I went to get my coffee, the woman went, oh, I thought it was a young Ellen walking towards me. It’s like. Yeah. So, yeah. So it was incredibly cathartic to be like, oh, I’m going to be heard in that way. You know, [00:53:22][15.5]

Jameela: [00:53:23] I think I wish that I could travel back in time and do many things. I don’t think this would be the priority on the list if I could go back in time, but I wish I could have shown Feel Good to an 11 year old Mae and also an 11 year old me. I think I think we both could have really done with a show like that. And I think it’s I think it’s going to really move and change the feelings of a lot of young people who got to watch that show. And so, uh, yeah. Before I end up crying at you, thanks for making it because it is fucking brilliant. And I’m so excited to see what you continue to do next. And thank you for coming on and talking to me about so many personal things. We did get in some deep, dark places, but I feel like it was all handled with a fair amount of lightness and sensitivity and mutual exception. Mae Martin, before you leave, will you please tell me, what do you weigh? [00:54:16][52.9]

Mae: [00:54:18] I weigh my resilience. I weigh my recent cooking skills, I can make a lasagna from scratch. [00:54:30][11.8]

Jameela: [00:54:30] Oh, sure. [00:54:30][0.2]

Mae: [00:54:31] Yeah, just a lockdown thing [00:54:33][1.7]

Jameela: [00:54:34] That’s our first date when I get back. [00:54:34][0.6]

Mae: [00:54:35] Yeah, sounds good. I weigh my friends that I really cherish and I want to always make so much time for. That’s my main thing. I’m very romantic about my friends. [00:54:50][15.7]

Jameela: [00:54:52] I think that’s lovely. And I also I hope that that continues to be the main vein of your life, because I think that’s the thing that keeps in the most sane in this business. I think that’s what has kept both of us sane in this business. Even though we have risen to the heights of working with Lisa Kudrow, we still stay grounded. And I think that’s amazing. No, um yeah, I’m really thrilled and I’m very lucky to be able to call myself one of your friends. We’re going to talk more often than we do. This has been ridiculous. [00:55:19][27.1]

Mae: [00:55:20] Yeah. [00:55:20][0.0]

Jameela: [00:55:21] Yeah. We shouldn’t have to book each other to have a chat. [00:55:24][2.5]

Mae: [00:55:24] I know it should not have to go through our people. it’s so good to see you. And I want to just reiterate how impressed I am by everything you’re doing. [00:55:36][11.3]

Jameela: [00:55:36] Likewise. I love you loads. And I’ll call you for a gossip later this week. [00:55:40][3.8]

Mae: [00:55:41] Yeah, sounds good. [00:55:41][0.6]

Jameela: [00:55:43] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carlson. And the beautiful music that you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. I really appreciate it and I amps me up to bring on better and better guests. Lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at one eight one eight six six zero five five four three. Or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@gmail.com. It’s not in pounds and kilos. Please don’t send that. It’s all about you just you know, you’ve been on the Instagram anyway, and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners. [00:56:30][47.5]

Listener: [00:56:35] I Weigh having a loving and supportive family. I Weigh being a psychotherapist and a professional dancer, I weigh being grateful always, and I weigh being kind and loving to others. [00:56:35][0.0]

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