EP. 62 — Marina Diamandis

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, I hope you’re well, I’m very excited for today’s episode because it’s with someone I really adore. Hopefully you enjoyed my episode with Mae Martin just a couple of weeks ago. They are such an extraordinary person. I got so many lovely messages from all of you, but I love having someone on who I’ve known for ten years or so, especially someone who I met when I was really young. And my guest this week is one of those people. I met her at the very beginning of my career. She was also starting her’s out. And we’ve just kind of been adjacent to one another throughout and trying to find time to become friends, but not being able to manage to find that time kind of until right now during this episode that you’re about to hear. I think after that it was just sort of it’s a done deal. That’s it. She stuck with me. Now we’re going to be friends. We love each other. Clearly, there’s just so much chemistry there. Her name is Marina Diamandis. You might know her better as Marina and the Diamonds. She’s one of the most interesting and exciting pop artists of our generation. Always done her own thing, always been different, always stood out, never played by any of the rules, just such an intelligent, interesting, inspiring, cool, quirky and bold young artist. And she’s so honest and frank and loves to love to do the unexpected and stay the unexpected, honest, true thing. And she did exactly that on this podcast and came with no guard up to talk to me about such personal things like eating disorders, body image, the the real feelings she had around her time in this industry. She said things that I’ve just never heard anyone say before, really, really honest, vulnerable things that very few people that many people feel but very few people would ever admit to. And she just did so casually on this podcast. I love her. We talk about her breaks between albums and when she actually kind of stepped away from the industry thinking that it would potentially be forever and what it’s been like to come back. And we massively connect over our uncertainty on whether we want kids, because currently we both really fucking don’t. And we’re both thirty five and we’re just not up for it. And we want to talk about how normal that is and how OK, that is. And it’s something that I feel very, very passionately about. I try and bring it up when it literally on any episode I can. I can’t believe I found someone who actually wants to come and chat to me about it at length who feels the same way. Who’s the same age in the same position. From the same place and oh she’s just a fucking dream. So please enjoy this episode about music and artistry and mental health with the funny and smart and unbelievably cool and brilliant and beautiful. How dare she. Oh, my beloved Marina Diamandis, welcome to I Weigh. How are you? [00:03:05][184.9]

Marina: [00:03:05] Hello. I’m so happy to be here. I’m very good. Thank you. How are you doing? [00:03:10][5.4]

Jameela: [00:03:10] I’m thrilled that you’re here. I also haven’t seen your face face to face in like six years, I think. It’s been bloody ages. [00:03:21][10.9]

Marina: [00:03:22] Because you moved to America, [00:03:23][0.6]

Jameela: [00:03:24] it is because I move to America, but also like you know, you and I were talking about this the other day on the phone that there’s no good reason why we’re not best friends. I mean, like, truly just the best of friends. I don’t understand it. And I remember the first time I met you, it was 2010 and we were doing a photo shoot together. This is 11 years ago. And we were supposed to be pretending we were on the front row of a runway. Do you remember this at like London Fashion Week? [00:03:58][33.7]

Marina: [00:03:58] How could I forget? [00:03:58][0.0]

Jameela: [00:03:59] And we yeah. And we were being called like, you know, the next girls to watch both in entertainment and in fashion. It’s very deep and meaningful, the deep and meaningful piece. But that’s the first time we met. And I remember immediately falling in love with you on that day. And then every time we would see each other, I would interview on Radio One or on T4 and and we always would say we would hang out, we would always mean to. And then we just didn’t. And part of that I think is because we were busy. But also part of it is, is this thing where I think people don’t reach out to musicians because they presume that they’re always on tour. To me, you seemed so not even of London that you were so successful so quickly that you felt just always omni global. So that’s why I never used to phone you. [00:04:52][52.8]

Marina: [00:04:52] Yeah. I mean. [00:04:54][1.3]

Jameela: [00:04:54] It’s because of that I just presumed I was like, oh, she just must be the busiest, most famous person in the world. And she’s traveling constantly. She’s just somewhere exotic on the other side of the world. But I just want to formally apologize for not for not being better at trying to be friends because I adored you immediately. [00:05:12][17.5]

Marina: [00:05:12] Do not apologize because I think with friendships, especially people who you do have an affinity for, which I think we did like like listeners at home should know that we we swapped numbers, I think three times over ten years. We at one point we literally live five minutes away from each other because I think you lived in Muswell Hill, right? [00:05:34][21.5]

Jameela: [00:05:34] I did. Yeah. [00:05:35][0.9]

Marina: [00:05:36] Yeah. And I think sometimes people who you do have a connection with, it just it’s not the right time for no reason. And at some point, you know, you meet again and we have crossed paths again. [00:05:49][12.9]

Jameela: [00:05:49] You’ve had such a long and extraordinary and exemplary career. I remember when you first came onto the scene, there was no one else like you. What was it like becoming so quickly successful? What was that like for you? Because I remember at the time and, you know, I wasn’t becoming big globally, but in London, I became fairly well known really quickly around the same time as you. I mean, we literally started that first shoot with our was was something that we did together. And I found it very overwhelming for my mental health. And I I wonder what that was like for you. You were bloody everywhere. [00:06:25][36.0]

Marina: [00:06:28] Yeah I think I processed it as something very exciting. I think my mental health really began to suffer, like end of first album. [00:06:37][9.5]

Jameela: [00:06:39] Why was that? [00:06:39][0.3]

Marina: [00:06:40] I think I just you know, honestly, I think I just had a really big ego. I really did. I was seeking a lot of I was seeking a lot of [00:06:50][9.6]

Jameela: [00:06:51] external validation, [00:06:51][0.7]

Marina: [00:06:52] external validation and some kind of healing through that. And I wasn’t conscious of that at the time. So in a way, it was a recipe for disaster in terms of contentment and fulfillment because nothing was ever going to be good enough. You know, I think it’s taken me it took me like five or six years after that first record to really get to grips with that and change the way that I felt about myself. [00:07:16][24.1]

Jameela: [00:07:17] Oh, God, I’m so obsessed with you. I love that you said. there’s so few people would ever come on and actually admit to that. I think we had a conversation with Matt Haig who talked about that, about the constant goalpost shifting of, you know, when you first round and you’re like, oh, I hope someone ever wants to hear this. I hope a couple of people hear it. I hope I get one record label bid and then you get sixteen. And so suddenly that sets a new tone. I hope I you know. Yeah. That I managed to make it to the top forty. Suddenly I want to be in the top ten. Suddenly I want to be number one. Yes, I want to be on the cover like I want to be in this magazine. I want to be on the cover of this magazine. It’s just this this toxic cycle that is is that really, really is so prevalent in our industry where and it’s massively egged on by publicists, agents, managers, this this fear mongering of like, you know, well, if you get to that level of success, don’t enjoy it because now you have to keep up that level of success. Now you have to do better next time. Then you have this time when you see, like how long artists like Rihanna, for example, take between records. You you can’t help but wonder, like God is that because of how much pressure the world is putting on her to match or top whatever she’s done before? I don’t I don’t know Rihanna. I’m just saying that you can I can only imagine the pressure. [00:08:33][76.1]

Marina: [00:08:34] No, I wonder about that as well with artists like Taylor Swift who are so commercially commercially successful and so gifted as songwriters. But there must just be this human thing where it’s like, well, if I got no one last time, then surely you have to get that again. Otherwise, anything less is a failure. And I think I hope that we’re all at a point where we can begin to examine what our cultural values of success are versus like, well, our personal ones are because I think it brings a lot of relief and just wellbeing when you suddenly start to realize that success might mean something very different to you than it does to your fans or media or whoever, to whoever’s perception of you. [00:09:21][47.5]

Jameela: [00:09:23] 100 percent. And so so rather than I’m just trying to clarify. So rather than feeling like, oh, God, people are invading my space or my words are being taken to literally or seriously by too many people, some of the thing that you were suffering from was like not enough people are. [00:09:39][16.4]

Marina: [00:09:40] Yeah. [00:09:40][0.0]

Jameela: [00:09:40] Seeing or hearing me, but also there’s so many of my friends who feel that way, so many people who are so close to me feel that way and never admit it. And I love the fact that you do, because I think that’s so natural for this industry. I’m sure I went through the same thing at the beginning of my career. It’s just that I had such a violent response to then actually becoming as successful as I was told I should be, that I then had a nervous breakdown and almost died. But enough about me that that that’s how badly that went for me. And so then I kind of moved very much, said the other way, which is why I now live such private and subtle existence. Very I really don’t put myself out there anymore [00:10:25][44.4]

Marina: [00:10:27] The trouble is because I like you so much. I just want to ask you questions. But [00:10:29][2.9]

Jameela: [00:10:30] No, I like you too. I like you too. [00:10:33][2.8]

Marina: [00:10:34] But this isn’t the podcast for that yet. [00:10:34][0.3]

Jameela: [00:10:36] No no. Exactly. And also I just hate talking about myself Marina that’s why I have this podcast. [00:10:39][2.7]

Marina: [00:10:42] Yeah. [00:10:43][0.6]

Jameela: [00:10:44] Anyway no, I think that’s fascinating. And so how have you what has been the journey to coming to reevaluate that, that value system and coming to find peace with where you’re at? I mean, just and I’m not mocking you when I say this, but she’s also got 11 million fucking monthly listeners on Spotify. So I try not to cry for Marina, Argentina. I’m I’m being facetious. [00:11:10][26.1]

Marina: [00:11:13] I get it. No, this is definitely not a I don’t have any feeling of, like, fixing her door or sob story-ness about this. I feel really good about it because I can share something, a journey that has been really valuable to me. So after the first album, I was asked to write with lots of like big songwriters in L.A., like Dr. Luke, Stargate. And for six months I said, oh, no, I don’t want to do that. Doesn’t feel right. And then in the end, I caved and I did actually go the commercial route for a while. I made up a character because I wanted it to be an experiment for me. I had to process it like that in order to get through it because I was doing something that felt so far from my own musical world. And and actually, to be honest, I just wanted to test, like, OK, if I want to be on American radio and I work with these people, is it going to work? And it bloody did. [00:12:16][62.7]

Jameela: [00:12:17] Yeah. [00:12:17][0.0]

Marina: [00:12:18] It’s you know, it’s a system and. I’m not really criticizing that, but it is the system, the way that you get on pop radio is much more kind of like brutal than people might think. [00:12:33][14.9]

Jameela: [00:12:34] What do you mean? [00:12:34][0.1]

Marina: [00:12:34] Well, I mean there a) you have to work with, like specific people. They’re usually only eight songs on rotation, eight songs. [00:12:45][10.9]

Jameela: [00:12:45] That’s ridiculous. [00:12:46][0.3]

Marina: [00:12:47] I know. And if you don’t fit purely into pop, you just won’t get in pop. And if you don’t fit purely into alternative, then you won’t get into alternative. So you kind of just, you know, in the middle and not played. So you do have to really, like, play this game. And for some artists, they’re so good at it and it works and it suits them. But for me, like, it was really, really bad for me. Like I’ve never felt so ill in a campaign as I did with Elektra. I was wearing a wig every day. You know, I still sold like a million singles and I still felt like like, oh, could could have done better. Like, well, why why didn’t it chart though. You know, it’s just I was on radio, why is isn’t it selling that much, why isn’t it charting? [00:13:38][51.4]

Jameela: [00:13:38] Especially I think if you feel like you’ve had to compromise any of your musical, I don’t know, like autonomy or integrity to be able to even take this route, I think then yeah. Well, I’ve I’ve done this thing that I didn’t necessarily enjoy that much. And I you know, I don’t want to generalize and say that you didn’t have any great sessions with other people, cause I know you did. But I’ve also got to speak before about the fact that that was a compromising, difficult time for you because you’re having to give up your some of your musical freedom, I guess, to make space for someone else’s and be brilliant. But I think with some of the people you worked with and, you know, it was mostly men that you were sent to work with. [00:14:15][36.1]

Marina: [00:14:15] Yeah, mostly men and. And I think nobody really who I was working with understood the concept at the time, it was only actually when I started creating on Tumblr the fans really connected with it. And I mean, long story short, I’m glad all of that happened because, A, it introduced me to a whole new fan base and B, the following record I did. I really I kind of set down all of those types of aspirations and I just made a deal with myself that if I was going to be an artist, I was going to do it on my own, on my own terms, regardless of what kind of success I would get from that. And it worked out really well. [00:15:00][44.6]

Jameela: [00:15:01] It did. But it was an unusual route, again, because it was it was that record. Right. That’s the third record. So the third record is the one where you were not actually given a lot of support by your label. [00:15:12][10.8]

Marina: [00:15:14] Yeah not huge. [00:15:15][0.4]

Jameela: [00:15:16] No it wasn’t a lot of like there was like a giant PR roll out for that. Like it was. [00:15:19][2.8]

Marina: [00:15:19] No. [00:15:19][0.0]

Jameela: [00:15:22] Because you hadn’t taken yeah. And you had to kind of really work an unusual promo campaign that you’d kind of devised yourself because he was sort of like, well, you don’t want to work with all the big famous men that we can put you with. So you’re on your own. [00:15:35][12.7]

Marina: [00:15:35] Yeah. And also, I just think with radio stations like Radio One in the U.K., again, it’s kind of it’s quite narrow sometimes for labels and they struggle to fight. They’ve always just struggled to find a home for me. And so I devised a strategy which would enable my fans to support me if they wanted to, and if they liked the music, it was the fruit of the month. And you basically, like buy a song each month and you preorder the album. And I was like, as a result, with no radio play, I got like a top ten record in the U.S., which I’d never had. So from that I got so much confidence. I was like, you don’t have to compromise yourself. There is a way, but you have to have the guts to do that. [00:16:21][46.0]

Jameela: [00:16:28] Is like food and eating disorder stuff, something that you struggled with? [00:16:32][3.4]

Marina: [00:16:33] Yeah, yeah, it is. And I’ve never actually talked about it, mainly because I recovered and it’s genuinely not a part of my brain anymore, which is a miracle, as you know. It’s a genuine miracle because this is it’s so hard to recover from. But [00:16:51][18.2]

Jameela: [00:16:53] Do you mind talking about it now? [00:16:55][2.4]

Marina: [00:16:55] No, I don’t, because I think this is the right space for it and I’m talking to the right person for it. But, yeah, I think my worst you know, my worst years were from like 16 to. Twenty five, I’d say at that time when I started out, I was no, it kind of crept into my work. It’s like my songwriting is a vehicle to to, like, tell myself the truth. My subconscious brain is like filtering up into my conscious brain. And then the songwriting actually acts as a way to make me change. So that’s how it started. And I think, yeah, probably, I don’t know, four or five years after I started doing that, I managed to, like, recover from it and not really have like. Not have like really invasive issues anymore. [00:17:55][59.2]

Jameela: [00:17:56] It’s really unfortunate that you entered the pop industry at the time that you did with an eating disorder already, because all it does enable it [00:18:03][7.2]

Marina: [00:18:05] Well size zero did not help. [00:18:05][0.1]

Jameela: [00:18:05] I know and people used to talk about your body and appropriate and not appropriate, but like inappropriate way sometimes, but also sometimes in complementary ways. I remember that was something that would come up quite a lot around you. Like even when you would be in a room, everyone would be talking about your physique and your, you know, curvy in some places, not curvy in other places, but your your body was something that a lot of people would talk about. I remember that from back in the day would talk about a lot. And and when that happens, it sort of reaffirms the little evil eating disorder bully inside of your brain. [00:18:41][36.7]

Marina: [00:18:43] I think. In my experience, if if there have been deeper issues going on in my life, eating disorder behavior was so much worse, it would like exacerbated by 10 you know. [00:18:57][14.7]

Jameela: [00:18:58] For you it was a form of control. [00:18:59][1.0]

Marina: [00:19:00] Yeah, I mean, I think I went in and out of, you know, starving myself, periods of starving myself and then, you know, slipping back because your body just craves food so badly. It was just a total mess. Like I see my worst years were actually before I was signed fortunately, and I just I’m just baffled about that was who I was, because I knew at the time it wasn’t me like eating, which on anybody that’s nobody’s identity. It’s an illness. By the time you’re just like you have a small voice inside you, that’s like, you know better than this. This is not who you are. [00:19:41][41.1]

Jameela: [00:19:42] So how were you able to recover from the eating disorder at twenty five. [00:19:45][2.6]

Marina: [00:19:46] It started as. Recovering started at like 20, I think, and I used to buy these books, they’re like really 80s, 90s style books, American ones. It was like overcoming overeating, which is basically coaching yourself to not be scared of food anymore. So and it was all very much linked with really being in tune with what your hunger is. So say, like, I don’t know if this is triggering for people, but say like a food. I was scared of was peanut butter. [00:20:16][29.8]

Jameela: [00:20:17] Right. [00:20:17][0.0]

Marina: [00:20:18] Or like pasta. Then you were you were told to eat that food until your full. And like when you’re full, you stop, and so I started to essentially make unsafe foods safe. And lo and behold, I did gain weight like more than is my natural. But I was having to do this kind of pendulum swing between having restricted so many years, unlike like existing on one meal a day, to trying to reeducate my body into wanting three meals a day. And I’m not I’m not definitely not perfect now. Like, I still find it quite weird to eat three times a day. But but that was the start of me learning to like, beginning to recover for sure. [00:21:09][50.9]

Jameela: [00:21:10] Yeah. That was the same thing for me. For for me it was I think I was about twenty eight and I was like, I’m going to finish full meals. I couldn’t eat full meals. I would pick everything or eat just like the outside of a quiche, but never the inside of the quiche which doesn’t make any sense. Looked fucking odd when I was out at dinner. I just you know, or I would make excuses for why I wasn’t hungry or I always claimed to have had a surprise five pm dinner before going out to dinner at eight, even though I clearly knew I was going out for dinner at 8. So why would I have eaten at 5? But that’s what I would say in order to excuse myself. [00:21:46][36.3]

Marina: [00:21:47] Can I ask you, did you did you feel that these symptoms got worse the more like you became a public figure or were they there before? [00:21:56][9.3]

Jameela: [00:21:58] Oh, no mine had started at about eleven. So I’d I’d I’d been in it for about eleven years. The problem for me with this industry was the fact that whenever whenever I was at my thinnest was when I would be complimented the most is when I would be given the most attention. It would be when I got the best opportunities, you know, the only time I was ever invited to shoot for British or American Vogue and all these things are unfortunately like gateways to further success and autonomy in your career. The more success you have, the more power you have to eventually call your own shots. So it is something unfortunate it’s not just this vain, shallow thing you aspire to. If you want actual power and control away from men, you have to become this this sort of powerhouse. And you do that via these certain avenues, or at least you did back then. Thank God for social media, because now people don’t have to play those games. We don’t need these publications. These publications are not specifically Vogue. But yeah, fashion magazines like the magazine industry in itself is kind of falling apart a little bit. And that’s because of the autonomy that we found on social media. Like everyone, social media is their own personalized magazine. I think that’s fantastic. But we didn’t have that when I came up. There was no Instagram, there was barely Twitter. I was fucking terrible at Twitter. I still am. I don’t know why I stay, but, [00:23:13][75.8]

Marina: [00:23:14] uh, yeah, that’s a really good point, actually, about well, just about the power of social media has given us in that respect, because all we had really was like magazines to flip through, like, you know, maybe there were some forms on the Internet, but that was about just about it. And when I think about your podcast, I’m like, if this had been around and if you had been around when I was twenty, I genuinely think it would have changed my path like genuinely. [00:23:45][31.4]

Jameela: [00:23:45] That’s very sweet. [00:23:46][0.4]

Marina: [00:23:46] Yeah. I think it’s so important. And, you know, anyone who’s listening, who still struggles with this is just there are so many of us who have been there. But I just can’t express enough. It’s such a waste of life and energy. And that was a thought that really plagues me when I used to be suffering. I’d be so annoyed at myself. I’m so ashamed that I was wasting my energy on this. But it’s you know, it’s not your fault. No one ever said that either. Like, we all kind of products of our environment and that’s what we’ve grown up in. [00:24:21][35.0]

Jameela: [00:24:22] So it’s not taken. Yeah. [00:24:23][1.1]

Marina: [00:24:24] As we like heal ourselves and recover from which it’s It’s so hard. And it’s, you know, anyone who’s making small steps should feel so proud because it’s fucking hard. [00:24:35][10.9]

Jameela: [00:24:36] It is fucking hard and it takes a really long time to get out of it. It took me twenty years to break out of it. And that’s a really large portion of my life to spend thinking about food or lack thereof. And I guess the reason I just go on and on and on about it all of the time and I’m so intense about it is just because I’m so scared that any of my listeners will waste as much of their lives as I feel like I have. [00:24:56][20.0]

Marina: [00:24:56] Exactly. [00:24:56][0.0]

Jameela: [00:24:57] And also, you know, one of the things that I hope I’ve been a part of is making sure that and, you know, if you’re doing that today is making sure that people don’t look at this as a frivolous thing, as a vain pursuit. You know, we’re pushed and pushed and pushed towards wanting to control our bodies or wanting to make our bodies, you know, societally acceptable. And I definitely don’t think all eating disorders are just esthetically based. I think some of them are just responses to trauma. And and one of the few things in particular, as a woman, you feel like you actually have some sort of control and autonomy over is what you put inside of your mouth. But. We’re pushed towards these, um, these acts against ourselves, and then we’re criticized and belittled and diminished as a vain when we spend a lot of time focusing on food, focusing on exercise, obsessing over these things, it’s not taken seriously as the second biggest story, not the second I mean, the second highest cause of death and any mental illness, only second to opioid overdoses, you know, so really, it’s considered the single highest cause of death in any mental illness. And so I’m really happy for you that you managed to find your way out and I’m sorry that nine years is a really long time to struggle with that. But it’s incredible that you’ve managed to find your way out. And and I look forward to, you know, being able to see you be able to live your 30s in your 40s or 50s in terms of freedom, because a lot of people don’t. Other than that, how is your journey with your mental health been? [00:26:32][94.7]

Marina: [00:26:35] Really rocky Jameela, really up and down. You know, it’s. [00:26:42][7.3]

Jameela: [00:26:43] That’s weird because I’ve been fine. God. What a loser. [00:26:46][3.1]

Marina: [00:26:51] Woops I shoudn’t clap. [00:26:51][0.1]

Jameela: [00:26:53] Oh no you can clap. [00:26:53][0.4]

Marina: [00:26:55] Yeah, it has been very messy. I’ve had some great years where I have gotten to grips with things. But and I do feel as I get older, my mental health does become more stable. I don’t know if you have experienced that, too. [00:27:12][17.2]

Jameela: [00:27:12] Definitely. [00:27:12][0.0]

Marina: [00:27:14] But yeah, I think to be honest, I think most of my life I didn’t really know that I had issues. I just felt like life was really hard and I was sad a lot. I didn’t know that that you could do something about that. It was just like, oh, this is just me. I was born like this. [00:27:33][19.0]

Jameela: [00:27:33] So was this anxiety, was this depression? Was it both? [00:27:35][2.1]

Marina: [00:27:36] It was depression mainly up until, I dunno, let’s say mid twenties. And then I think anxiety like is still I still deal with that to a much lesser degree, but it’s still a factor that. I don’t really know what the answer is. [00:27:52][15.5]

Jameela: [00:27:53] Do you feel anxious about. Do you mind me asking [00:27:54][1.4]

Marina: [00:27:55] It used to be social anxiety like. Now that I know what it feels like to not have I look back and I’m like, God, you poor thing, like you were just so crippled with anxiety all the time and again, didn’t even turn it in my head is like social anxiety was just maybe if I just drink really quickly, just drink triple vodka and sodas really quickly, it will subside. And it did kind of help, but that’s not great for your health. [00:28:26][30.9]

Jameela: [00:28:27] Oh no, it’s not. But also then it kind of you know, again, there’s a similarity in not to lump you in with a bunch of other people, but you know, when you were talking earlier about the kind of the anxiety you had around your career, like, I’m not doing enough, I’m not big enough and not enough people are noticing me, etc.. Yeah. Like, that’s so classic that you would also have this, like, constant underlying self-worth issue or depression issue, anxiety like that’s so often what artists like fundamentally if you fucking really look at it. So most artists are troubled in some way. That process in particular, I think songwriters or writers, you know, I remember being told once by a very prolific songwriter that, you know, he only learned how to write because he didn’t really know how else to communicate, not only with himself, but with others is the only way that he knew how to externalize the way that he felt. And I think that’s so true of all of my artist friends. And a lot of them are processing and just happened to process in a way that sounded really great that other people wanted to listen to. But I do think what I’m touching on is also a bigger issue that you and I spoke about over the phone, which is how dangerous this industry can be for a young, vulnerable person, in particular, one struggling with their mental health. Can we talk a little bit about that, about the mental health of being a musician? [00:29:50][82.7]

Marina: [00:29:51] Yeah, I think the behind the scenes stuff makes up the bulk of your career in your life. It’s like 90 percent and. When I think about what an artist’s career entails, it is quite mad and very unhealthy, even if you’re someone who, you know, doesn’t do drink or drugs, whatever, you’re essentially, you know, traveling for, let’s say, six months of the year. So your main feeling of belonging is cut off, which is your community, your friends, your family. You know, there’s day to day. Those day to day connections with people have gone. And that’s something I really realize now is is fundamental to feeling safe and connected. Number two you are living on a bus with 14 other people traveling from city to city. [00:30:48][57.7]

Jameela: [00:30:49] How did you find trying to piss on a tour bus? Because I have a terrible time. It’s a terrible time. [00:30:55][5.7]

Marina: [00:30:55] Oh, it’s so horrible. Yeah. I mean, fans really don’t know about this. It’s just gross. I now have my own toilet. [00:31:02][7.0]

Jameela: [00:31:03] Oh, that’s amazing. So you can actually sit on the actual seat, I think because you see I go on James’s tour bus, right. And it’s like it’s like 14 to 20 men sharing this tour bus with us. So I’m not like, no, no disrespect to them, but I’m not fucking sitting down on the seat of that toilet seat like, come on now, let’s just be real. So it’s also they’re driving at like 80 to 90 miles per hour sometimes when you’re, like, driving across America it’s a huge distance to cover. So I’m there just sort of like looking like I’m surfing. I know I’m in a stance as if I’m surfing, like I’m half squatting, trying to pee like [00:31:41][38.3]

Marina: [00:31:42] and make your clothes not touch anything around you. [00:31:44][2.6]

Jameela: [00:31:45] But of course, like, the bus was suddenly jolt and then I end up just pissing down my pajama leg at four o’clock in the morning, half asleep on a tour bus. So it’s a terrible time. Nobody asked for that story. I’m so sorry. [00:31:57][11.8]

Marina: [00:31:57] Nobody asked for that story, but we appreciate it. Yeah, because. Because it’s part of reality. [00:32:01][4.2]

Jameela: [00:32:02] Yeah. That’s part of why Mariners’ had a different no I’m joking. How old were you when you had a breakdown? [00:32:16][13.7]

Marina: [00:32:17] I was I was thirty one, I think I was there were many times for it Jameela as we know that you it’s burn out. Burn out, break through. Break down. Illness, whatever you want to call it, but something just changed in me and I knew that I just couldn’t continue. I needed I needed the space to potentially never come back again, which is why I had also said, I don’t know if I’m going to continue to be an artist. [00:32:48][31.0]

Jameela: [00:32:48] Was there a moment of just I can’t do this anymore? [00:32:50][2.1]

Marina: [00:32:52] I think I as I launched through the third record, I kind of knew that something was going to happen or I just was feeling different. But actually the things that really made me stop were life circumstances I had a really just awful period on tour where two close family members died, they were they were older, but they you know, they really meant a lot to me. And there was illness as well. And I remember just this happened over like a four month period. I don’t know if you’ve ever had a period like this in your life where things just like dominos think awful, catastrophic things keep happening and [00:33:36][44.0]

Jameela: [00:33:37] Yeah I’ve got 15 years that went on. Yeah yeah no i can relate I can relate. [00:33:39][2.2]

Marina: [00:33:45] Oh my god. You if you’re not able to process that or find the support, which is self compassion to hop to like protect yourself, your body starts to really, like, tell you that you can’t cope anymore, and I just started having severe panic attacks and pretty much every day before shows because I still have to go on stage whilst all of this family stuff was happening, which, you know, it’s just really hard. This particular not telling fans either like, I’m going through a really hard time. I just didn’t want to ruin the whatever like mirage I was concocting at the time. And it just it fucked me up, actually, for a long time. I’m still kind of dealing with health things, because I burnt myself out properly. [00:34:34][49.1]

Jameela: [00:34:36] Yeah, and you love your fans so much. [00:34:37][1.4]

Marina: [00:34:38] I do I do. [00:34:38][0.3]

Jameela: [00:34:38] That I can see that I could see how particular and caring you are towards them. And and that must have been really painful to have step away from that that you’d built over the course of three albums is also rare to have someone hit probably the peak of their career thus far. Where you had like a top ten record in America huge success. Millions and millions, millions of listeners like everyone’s attention in a very autonomous, organic way where you’re not having to answer to the man like you are. I’m not going to say you are the man, but like you, you are controlling your own machine for the first time. And it’s it’s incredibly inspiring that that would be when you choose to bow out and just protect yourself, because very few people like the way that we get fearmongered I can’t imagine you were were you encouraged to take that break or were you discouraged from taking that break? [00:35:29][51.3]

Marina: [00:35:31] No, no way. And I think [00:35:32][1.6]

Jameela: [00:35:33] people were discouraging you saying that, you know, like everything’s going so well, they shouldn’t. [00:35:36][3.2]

Marina: [00:35:37] Yeah, I’m from a lovely place because they were so it was so so like happy about how things had gone. They just didn’t really understand. But even [00:35:47][10.4]

Jameela: [00:35:47] It was also a place of ignorance. Sorry if I may just cut in. it’s a place of ignorance because as much as they’re happy for you, it’s because this entire industry has a value system of success first, happiness health peace later. You know, just like rest when your dead. [00:36:03][15.5]

Marina: [00:36:04] That’s a really good point. Exactly. And particularly with offers, you know, whether that like creative or financial. I remember I got offered a really big tour with, like, an amazing artist. I haven’t done support tours in a very long time, but it was an amazing financial offer. And I just I could not I could not say yes. Like my body was physically saying, like ick. [00:36:26][21.7]

Jameela: [00:36:28] So what did you do in those? What did you do in what was it three years that you took off? [00:36:32][4.0]

Marina: [00:36:33] I took off two two and a half years fully from any public work, [00:36:39][6.3]

Jameela: [00:36:40] what did you do during that time? [00:36:41][1.2]

Marina: [00:36:44] Well, it sounds dreamy and like, wow, how self protective and self loving it was really kind of messy. It was like very hard because I still have this guilt thing that people expected me to come back, whether that was, you know, people I worked with at the time or label fans, no one really understood. And so I felt quite heavy at the time. I just felt like I was having an identity crisis where. There was no way out, I was just like, there’s no purpose in my life anymore. I don’t know what I’m here for and I just don’t get life. I just feel completely lost like my anchor is gone. And so that kind of followed me for about I mean, throughout the hiatus. However, I did start to do things. I did floristry courses. My favorite thing was a six month psychology course at University of London. I did module’s and that seemed to like rejuvenate me actually going back to uni and doing something that was so wildly different, using my brain in a totally different way. And that’s what started what what helped me start writing again, [00:38:00][76.1]

Jameela: [00:38:01] which is so ironic. And so I think it’s so great and I’m so happy that you’re back for that is so funny and ironic to me, but also so great because you were forced to finally divorce yourself from that mentality of success is everything. There is a certain barometer of success that I have to meet in order to feel worthy and like I have accomplished anything. [00:38:20][19.6]

Marina: [00:38:21] Yeah, definitely. And also, I think the biggest thing for me, I’m curious as to how you feel about this as well, was separating. No, not separating, integrating the personal life me with my work life, me, because they had become so separate that I felt like the only way to gain peace had become to be completely alone. Like that’s the only time I ever felt natural. And I don’t feel like that anymore. But I kind of have to go through those few years really sorting myself out because I just become you know, I’ve lived as Marina and the Diamonds since I was twenty two. That’s almost 10 years of thinking that your identity and worth are completely wrapped up in your artist’s identity [00:39:08][46.6]

Jameela: [00:39:10] and also wondering that like all these people love her. But would anyone actually love me? [00:39:14][4.7]

Marina: [00:39:16] Yeah. And also just the tension of feeling like you have to appear or behave a certain way. Like sometimes, you know, we don’t feel like smiling or taking a picture. And I’d be OK with meeting a fan now and being like that. But the time it was just so different, I just didn’t feel like I could possibly be my authentic self. [00:39:38][22.6]

Jameela: [00:39:39] Yeah, I am. Yeah. We’re also like thoroughly discouraged from doing that in every walk of life, like whatever job you work at, you’re always told smile. So no, I agree completely. When I was on T4 like I was so I was so detached from myself, I used to speak in a slightly different voice. I go back and I watch old videos of me talking on T4 and I speak a bit more like Alan Partridge. I was sort of trying to speak a bit more like Rick Edwards and Alexa Chung. And I come back and I’m like, why am I doing that with my mouth? That’s so embarrassing. I remember trying to make a show real for like, you know, when America is like when I came to America, I ran out of money. They wouldn’t send me to auditions. And I was like, oh, scrap together my old work in England. I couldn’t use any of it because I’m talking on there’s a completely different way it’s so mortifying. I probably interviewed you in that voice. That’s so embarrassing. [00:40:30][50.7]

Marina: [00:40:31] I can’t remember that. [00:40:31][0.3]

Jameela: [00:40:31] Thank God, thank God. [00:40:34][2.9]

Marina: [00:40:35] Also, I just think, you know, when I listen to your podcast, by the way, everyone listening at home, I love this podcast. [00:40:41][6.1]

Jameela: [00:40:42] That’s so sweet. [00:40:43][0.2]

Marina: [00:40:43] I’m I’m little fangirl. I, I can hear your authentic self and that just makes other people that brings that out in other people. You know, just existing in this way is just so, so much more impactful than you you may know. [00:41:02][19.0]

Jameela: [00:41:03] Yeah. And I don’t think it’s just people in our jobs who feel this way. I think there are so many in particular women, but people of all different genders who put on this happy face, you know, who who pretend to be OK, who pretend to be able to cope. And therefore, that’s that’s I’ve talked before about the fact that I think that’s what caused part of my depression. And maybe other people listening to this will be able to relate. But when you are putting on a happy front, you are lying not only to other people, but you’re being unintegral to yourself. You’re playing this character and that creates this distance between who you actually are and who you’re pretending to be. And within that distance for me is where the numbness grew. It was like emptiness, this like moat between me and the person I was pretending to be. And so my depression was numb. I was just numb. Everything seemed pointless. [00:41:55][52.0]

Marina: [00:41:56] Yeah, I so relate to that. I really believe that explanation it really helps, actually visualizing that, [00:42:04][8.2]

Jameela: [00:42:05] speaking about kind of being integral and honest with yourself. Another conversation you and I had in private was about kids that we’re going to have together. No I’m joking. Yeah, we’re getting married and having babies. No you and I both have a quote unquote, traditional views around whether or not we want children. Where are you at? [00:42:30][24.9]

Marina: [00:42:31] Yeah, I’d love to talk about this. Partly why I want to talk about it is because I’m a fence sitter. I don’t quite know what I feel yet. I’m ambivalent about it. And I think. Though we still don’t have enough conversations from women who just don’t want kids but are feeling pressured to for whatever reason, we also don’t have enough conversations or we don’t have enough expression from women who actually still don’t know and. It’s I think it’s hard when you love your job because there’s less of a feeling of wanting to fill a space or void or maybe just wanting to create something. And it’s something that I’ve really been thinking about the past three or four years because of my age, you know, being in my 30s. That’s when most women feel the most pressure if they haven’t yet had kids and. I would hope that by talking about this, we can give confidence to women who are the same age or younger than us, that it’s OK to not want kids. It’s also OK to not know. But I think the most important thing is giving yourself the respect and like space to really find out how you feel because it’s the biggest decision of your life. And, and it’s personality based as well. I believe, you know, some people are going to enjoy the experience more than others. There’s it’s also quite risky because none of us know how we’re going to respond. But, yeah, when I spoke to you about it, I was like, please, to have someone else to talk to about it, because it’s also quite an isolating experience. [00:44:22][111.4]

Jameela: [00:44:24] 100 percent. I mean, and everyone pressures me a lot. I talk about it a fair bit on this podcast. I mean, I do. I talk about it. Yeah, I talk about it a fair, fair amount. And I, I am always so excited to talk to someone about their genuine experience of parenthood. Regardless of what kind of parent they are. And I’m always trying to get the dirt, find stuff like [00:44:46][22.1]

Marina: [00:44:47] I do I do too. [00:44:47][0.1]

Jameela: [00:44:47] The difficult shit. Don’t tell me it’s the best thing you’ll ever do. Don’t tell me that you know that if you’ve loved in a way that you never knew you could love, I was like, tell me the tell me the shit that’s going to mean that I you know, that that reaffirms this terror that I have because I don’t feel as though I feel like I’m forced like force fed baby propaganda all the time. And the older I get, the more people are just like when it’s not if it’s when are you going to have a baby? [00:45:13][26.3]

Marina: [00:45:14] Yeah still [00:45:14][0.0]

Jameela: [00:45:21] I remember someone coming up to me and James, a well known artist or I’m not going to name them, but fuck this guy. He tried to make me look like a Christmas dinner pinky promise that I would never get an abortion that if I if James and I ever had a baby, he was like, you must make a baby together. And pinky promise me now that you won’t get an abortion. And I was refusing to do it so then he wouldn’t leave us alone unless I was going to do it. And James leaned in and was like, just, you know, a pinky promise isn’t actually legally binding. So if you do it, I’m not going to hold you to it. But I was confused because I was so angered that I was so angered and he was like, your life won’t change at all. And this is like one of the most successful musicians in the world. It’s like his life didn’t change at all because his wife is looking after the kids while he’s in the studio all the time. So the misogyny and that, it’s like, no, James’ life won’t change at all is what he was really thinking. Of course my life would change. And of course, regardless of what whether you’re the mother or the father or however you wish to identify, your life changes. If you’re a good parent in some way, your life changes. And, yeah, the the seamlessness with which people don’t speak about like that, the way in which they speak about parenthood as if it is a seamless thing feels very callous to me because I’ve been on the receiving end of bad parenting. I’ve watched a lot of bad parenting. I have friends who were the result of very bad parenting. It isn’t this thing where, of course, you’re not you don’t have to do it by any kind of manual and you should feel free to do, you know, to parent the way that you feel instinctively is best. But also we have to take it really fucking seriously and we have to do it with as little resentment as is possible. It has to be something you really desperately want to embark on. [00:47:10][108.4]

Marina: [00:47:10] Absolutely. [00:47:10][0.0]

Jameela: [00:47:11] In my opinion. I mean, doesn’t have to be who the fuck am I? Don’t have children. Don’t listen to me. But what I’m trying to say is that. [00:47:18][6.8]

Marina: [00:47:18] Yeah we’re like two two women without children. [00:47:20][1.7]

Jameela: [00:47:21] Just telling people how to parent. But the point is, is that if you’re going to do it well, it has to be something that you really care about, has to be very constantly intentional. It has to be intentional fucking forever, because you can always do so much damage, you know. [00:47:34][13.2]

Marina: [00:47:34] OK, not all choices are intentional when it comes to conception. But, I think, you know, knowing that you that you commit to whatever parenthood is going to bring your way is is a huge thing. And I think it’s amazing when people can make that decision with their whole heart. And I think if you can’t, then maybe, maybe it’s a no for now. You know, it’s it’s like indecision is a decision. [00:48:05][30.8]

Jameela: [00:48:06] Yeah, I love that. That’s great. [00:48:07][1.1]

Marina: [00:48:07] And so, I mean, for myself, you know, I like I like being fluid and giving myself the space to find out if I don’t yet know. And in a way that kind of excites me. It’s like I’ve never been in this position in my life where I can actually just see how things go and follow, you know, follow my own my own path and see where that leads, see where that should lead for me, because I am a little bit of a. I don’t know, not like destiny person. However, I do think that’s if you make the right decisions, the right things will come. And if kids are meant to be part of my life, then that’s what’s going to happen. If they’re not, it’s also totally for the right reason. [00:48:54][46.3]

Jameela: [00:48:55] I agree. I’m I’m going to put I’m putting my girls on ice. I’m 35 now and. [00:49:00][4.7]

Marina: [00:49:00] Have you done it yet? [00:49:00][0.1]

Jameela: [00:49:00] No, not yet. I’m going to do it and everyone’s going to hear about it. And they’re going to be some very pissy intros to this podcast when I’m doing it, because I’ve heard it’s an emotional roller coaster. I’m going to put my girls on ice and I’m really frustrated for people with ovaries and uteruses that that we are on a clock of any kind with one of the biggest decisions of all time. But I you know, I am on a clock and I’m so far from a yes that I’m but I’m also not 100 million percent a no, I’m a 95 percent no to children because I don’t want to give up my freedom. I don’t want to wake up early. I don’t want to meet their their their friends’ parents. [00:49:41][41.2]

Marina: [00:49:42] Oh, I loved it when you said this on the pre chat. I was like Jameela doesn’t want kids because she hates other parents. [00:49:47][5.3]

Jameela: [00:49:48] I just don’t want to like I’m socially anxious. I don’t want to meet their parents. I don’t want to have to hang out and tolerate with them. What if I don’t like their friends. I have to be in my fucking house. There’s a lot what if I don’t like their teachers. I’m a selfish person. I’m a selfish person. [00:50:03][15.1]

Marina: [00:50:04] That’s amazing. [00:50:04][0.1]

Jameela: [00:50:04] And that comes from having been a selfless person for way too long, which led to a lot of my mental health problems. So I feel like I’m only just finally not living my life even though I’m in a relationship with another person. Poor sod not living my life for him either. I, I am living my life just for me right now and everyone can either come along for the ride or they’re going to have to like just fuck off. And that’s where I’m at and it’s taken me my whole life to get here. And so now that I finally feel like my life isn’t for a man or a woman or a manager or an agent or a publicist or the public or a family member or 19 family members all at the same time, I finally feel like my life is actually mine. And so the idea of giving that up and sacrificing quite a lot of that freedom for a significant amount of time. It’s just going to get in the way of this freedom that I finally found and by people having to choose their own form of freedom and I get that and I love that. And your freedom then isn’t being taken away. You’re being able to, like, fully realize your path. And I think that motherhood for some of my friends, is just the most amazing thing that’s happened for some of them. And it’s fucking terrible for some of the other ones who I hope aren’t listening to this, but they’re fucking miserable and there’s nothing they can do now. And that scares me. And that makes me feel like that’s the road that I might be on. And if I can avoid it and take some control over it, great. And also, if I change my mind, there are so many little babies that need a home. [00:51:30][85.9]

Marina: [00:51:31] And that’s what I think about, too. If you if you change your mind and you really, really want kids, adoption is an amazing life changing that can do. [00:51:40][9.4]

Jameela: [00:51:40] Yeah, exactly. And also, you know, if I can love a fucking other species as much as I love my dog, that’s another thing, Marina, like push me further over the edge, he choked on a chicken bone, the other day. [00:51:50][9.1]

Marina: [00:51:51] Oh my god. [00:51:51][0.0]

Jameela: [00:51:52] Choked on a chicken bone on Sunday and almost died in my arms. And I had to yank a chicken thigh bone like out of his throat as he was like foaming at the mouth and like having a seizure, this tiny puppy in my arms. And when I finally managed to get out and I realized he could breathe again, like literally dying in my arms, I had the panic attack of my life. I’ve never had a panic attack ever like that. And I’ve been through some real shit before. But it was the worst I’ve ever felt having watched him in that vulnerable situation. I think after that I realized I was like, I don’t have what it takes. I don’t have what it takes to be responsible for another life, but I can’t. It takes the bravest human being on Earth to go through this sort of like vulnerable death trap. If this is how close I am attached, I am to a dog that this is the physical reaction I have to its safety. I can’t imagine having children. [00:52:44][52.1]

Marina: [00:52:44] This is the thing in this conversation and in thinking about it, I often also just marvel at parents and the idea of actively chosen to to be a guide or guardian for children. It’s. [00:52:59][14.7]

Jameela: [00:53:00] Magical. [00:53:00][0.0]

Marina: [00:53:01] My full admiration. I think what you just said about being your age now, where you’re at in your life, I really feel that. And I do wonder if listeners also feel the same, if there are people out there. I don’t know if it’s like 35 years old thing or if it’s just the way to our culture is now or not having, you know, as many issues as we used to in our 20s. But I just feel so much more free and confident than I’ve ever felt. And I kind of don’t want that to end. I want I missed out on my 20s because of what I chose to do in my career. And I wonder if you also like [00:53:39][38.1]

Jameela: [00:53:40] I feel the same way. I feel like I’m in an arrested development. I feel like now I’m twenty five and I’m finally getting a chance at twenty five or nineteen or whatever, and I feel like I’m trying to do what I want to do for me. And I agree with you. I think parenting is an extraordinary task when it’s done with love, patience, kindness and and as little resentment as one can muster, considering how difficult it is. But I’m just and it’s because I marvel at it so much that I just don’t think I can actually do it. And I really am fucking sick of being told you’re going to regret it because I’m like there are millions of children who need a home in this world. You’re on a waiting list of up to five years who can’t find a home. And so I and so I really massively want to keep that door open and and not ever be pressured into making a life altering decision. [00:54:31][51.5]

Marina: [00:54:32] Absolutely not like that just isn’t it anymore. Making decisions for yourself that will impact your entire life just because you want to socially fit in like no come on. Like do it for the right reasons. [00:54:43][10.5]

Jameela: [00:54:43] Yeah. And how do you know I’ll regret it? I would like to get into my forties hopefully and find out for myself. As you know, I’m starting to regret it. Great. I’ll do something about that. Maybe IVF or maybe it will be adoption, whatever that is. But I would like to find out for myself and stop being fearmongered by people who aren’t going to be there at 3:00 in the morning when my nipple feels like it’s going to fall off. You know what I mean, it’s like where are you going to be? You know, when I’m when I’m avoiding all these regrets you fearmongered me about? I think I’d just like to find out for my fucking self. [00:55:14][31.1]

Marina: [00:55:15] Yeah. And also, I think it’s just important to add to the conversation that there is sacrifice in both decisions, like whether you have kids or not, there is a sense of loss for both. And that’s OK, because I think one of the fears of, you know, the feeling of being pressured to say, yes, OK, I’m going to say this route is is like, OK, what if I regret it? Or, you know, what if I’m going to feel sad and lonely in my 40s or 50s? [00:55:42][27.3]

Marina: [00:55:43] Because my friends are busy with their children. [00:55:43][0.3]

Marina: [00:55:44] Yeah, yeah. And you know what? There may be that aspect, but there are lots of new friends as well and also new paths to lead, I think we are we’re really the second generation who are doing this, but with the first in terms of it’s now kind of being a bit more acceptable. But we still need to, like, push this conversation forward regardless of what you and I end up choosing to do. [00:56:07][23.1]

Jameela: [00:56:07] Yeah, I was also saying that the idea the argument of the argument of having a kid because you want someone to take care of you when you’re old I’m always like. [00:56:14][7.1]

Marina: [00:56:15] That’s not guaranteed. [00:56:15][0.0]

Jameela: [00:56:15] No, no. But also, like, my child is probably not going to be a trained nurse. You know, or doctor, if they’ve got my attention span, I don’t want them inserting a catheter when I’m older. I would like a trained professional look after me. [00:56:29][13.8]

Marina: [00:56:29] Have James do it. [00:56:30][0.2]

Jameela: [00:56:29] I don’t want yeah you know, I don’t want to be I don’t want my children to look after me and like, you know, deal with my my health or whatever. I you know, I want someone who knows what they’re fucking doing. You have to give birth to two doctors if I want them to be looking after me. So that’s not a reason to do it either. I don’t want them anywhere near me. [00:56:51][21.3]

Marina: [00:56:51] Oh, my God. [00:56:52][0.4]

Jameela: [00:56:52] If they’re anything like me I don’t want them anywhere near me when I’m old and fragile. But yeah I love how honest and open you are. I love how vulnerable you are. I love how constantly open to change you are. I love how many times you’ve changed your public identity. I love the way that you have always taken the rules as a light suggestion. As much as it’s possible for a young woman in our generation. [00:57:20][27.7]

Marina: [00:57:21] Thank you. [00:57:21][0.3]

Jameela: [00:57:21] But I and I’ve loved chatting to you today and. [00:57:25][4.0]

Marina: [00:57:25] Me too. [00:57:25][0.2]

Jameela: [00:57:26] You know, maybe we’ll just be two 60 year olds going on fucking holiday to Greece together, you know, [00:57:32][6.3]

Marina: [00:57:33] That’s when our friendship’s finally start. [00:57:33][0.0]

Jameela: [00:57:33] That will be the new friends. Those will be the new friends you make when you decide not to have children. Just two two childless women, living their best fucking lives it will be great,. [00:57:46][13.4]

Marina: [00:57:47] Hopefully. [00:57:47][0.0]

Jameela: [00:57:48] But yeah. And we’ll see. We’ll see. Maybe in a year’s time, you and I will be up the duff and doing another podcast episode [00:57:54][5.8]

Marina: [00:57:54] Dude anything could happen with our tails between our legs. [00:57:58][3.6]

Jameela: [00:57:59] Telling other people it’s the best thing you’ll ever do. It’s a love you’ve never known. I promise to never put pressure on anyone else if I decide to make that choice. Anyway. [00:58:08][9.2]

Marina: [00:58:09] Same here. Same here. [00:58:10][0.6]

Jameela: [00:58:10] Before you go, as you’ve listened to this podcast before. [00:58:13][2.9]

Marina: [00:58:13] Yes. [00:58:13][0.0]

Jameela: [00:58:15] Will you tell me, Marina Diamandis, what do you weigh? [00:58:19][4.1]

Marina: [00:58:20] Oh, my God Jameela. I weigh my friendships. I weigh my songs. I weigh some fabulous outfits, I weigh my ability to create a visual world and. And I weigh my independence. [00:58:44][24.6]

Jameela: [00:58:45] Mm hmm. And you also weigh the most intense and wonderful, loving fan base. [00:58:50][4.5]

Marina: [00:58:51] Ohhh that too. [00:58:51][0.0]

Jameela: [00:58:55] Thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about so many different things. [00:58:58][3.0]

Marina: [00:58:59] Thank you. [00:58:59][0.0]

Jameela: [00:58:59] Love your loads and I promise to actually this time now that we live near each other again, I’m not going to let you go this time. [00:59:07][8.3]

Marina: [00:59:08] Oh, we are going to get this friendship [00:59:10][2.1]

Jameela: [00:59:11] up and fuckin running. Yeah. [00:59:14][2.7]

Marina: [00:59:16] Up and running. I see soon whenver you’re back and thank you so much for having me on. [00:59:19][3.4]

Jameela: [00:59:20] Oh, it was such a pleasure. A pleasure and an honor. Thank you so much. [00:59:23][2.8]

Marina: [00:59:23] Bye! [00:59:23][0.0]

Jameela: [00:59:24] Bye! Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil’s produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Aaron Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music that you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. I really appreciate it and amps me up to bring on better and better guests. Lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at one eight one eight six six zero five five four three. Or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@Gmail.com. It’s not in pounds and kilos. Please don’t send that. It’s all about you just you know, you’ve been on the Instagram anyway, and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners. [01:00:14][50.5]

Listener: [01:00:18] I weigh the fact that I’m in the class of 2020, despite the pandemic, and the self awareness I’ve gained from it. I weigh my ability to speak up for what I believe in and that I can lend the ear to even those who I don’t instantly agree with. But above it all, I weigh my friendships that have taught me patience and unconditional love, love you and all that you do, Jameela. Sincerely, Mia. [01:00:18][0.0]

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