EP. 121 — Ask Jameela Anything with Harry Trevaldwyn

Jameela [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. A podcast against shame. I hope you’re well. And I hope you’re in the mood for someone very silly and soothing on this podcast, because every so often I do these Ask Me Anything episodes where I get a friend, a funny friend, a wise friend onto the podcast to help me help you with your questions that you send in. And this time around, we have the excellent and hilarious online and acting and writing genius that has Harry Travaldwyn. He is the star of 10%. If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s so good. It’s the English version of Call My Agent, which is one of the best shows of all time as well. And Harry is someone I found online because I became obsessed with his comedy videos and sketches, and I strongly suggest you do the same after this episode. But this is just quite a lovely, sensitive, kind chat between two people who really are just both figuring everything out themselves. We’re trying to answer your question. We have both very different styles of living, so you get two very alternate views of how to approach these things. Hopefully that isn’t confusing and that’s nice to listen to. And I just generally find Harry to be one of the most soothing presences I’ve ever met in this dark, scary, disgusting world and industry. And so I hope you fall in love with Harry too. Go and find everything Harry’s in. In this episode, we’ll discuss advice we would give to our younger selves, how to know the value of an argument and when to walk away. We talk about why revenge bodies are a fucking terrible idea and why time really is the best healer to heartbreak. We talk about our favorite things like our favorite books, and we discuss well, my tried and true method of communicating via email when having a fight with a partner. So if any of these things appeal to you and you just fancy a soothing listen, please enjoy the absolutely delightful Harry Trevaldwyn. Harry Travaldwyn. Welcome to fuckin I Weigh. How are you?

Harry [00:02:16] I’m very good, thank you. How are you?

Jameela [00:02:19] I’m so good. I’m so happy you’re here. You’re my big comedy crush. Who is now by the powers of the Internet my friend. Because I slid right into your DMS.

Harry [00:02:31] And then mate’s like, Oh, heaven.

Jameela [00:02:36] And I’ve been able to. I feel like I caught you just at the right time, just before you took off and started landing every job in fucking Hollywood. And now you’re. You’re. You’re becoming a big fuckin British export. It’s mad.

Harry [00:02:49] I tell you what I remember. I remember specifically the day that you slid into my DMs because I’ve yet to have a and this is, by the way no read on you. I’ve yet to have a sexy DM as in like, hey, how’s it going? But I have had professional ones and those I feel they trump that. And yours I think was on UK Mother’s Day because for some reason I couldn’t go and see my mum or something. And so instead we had this like and so otherwise I might not have been free and we had this lovely, lovely chat on the phone. It was great.

Jameela [00:03:25] It must have been very odd to receive around a random DM from someone who just feels entitled to tell you how much they love you. Because they’ve got a tick.

Harry [00:03:33] Did it seem like I responded really badly to it. I was like, Nice.

Jameela [00:03:35] I thought you would. I was really nervous because I always presume everyone hates me. But I just I was so obsessed with your online videos that I felt I have, like, a compulsive urge to tell people in comedy how much I. I love them. And I wonder if part of that comes from the fact that I know that I’m not speaking about you. But a lot of comedians famously fail to love themselves, and they’re very hard on themselves. And it’s a really brutal industry. And so I feel like almost especially when someone from that that kind of part of this industry or part of this world does something that makes my day better, I kind of want to, I don’t know, just give them something back because they gave me that happy feeling.

Harry [00:04:21] Well that’s I feel that’s a very good compulsion to have. I feel in the like in the tapestry of compulsions. That’s an excellent one. And yeah but, I totally I totally know what you mean. I think, like, it’s very different. It’s very, very different. Like actually kind of like compared to like liking something and saying, by the way, like, I really, really enjoyed this. And it’s actually it’s kind of the same as giving a compliment, I think, like, as in if you think it, why wouldn’t you say it? And you’re very good at that.

Jameela [00:04:51] And it’s very un-British.

Harry [00:04:53] And very un-British. Yeah, it’s incredibly un-British. It’s like that. I feel like me and my friends are quite good at giving compliments. Like, if I think something, I will try. I will try and say like, Oh, I really like this. I like this without being like, too much. But I think that sweet spot is somewhere in the middle.

Jameela [00:05:11] Well, well done on not being too much, Harry. Not all of us have that, not all of us have that skill, but I do feel as though. I do feel as though one of the things that you and I connected over is like a mutual hunger for kindness. Because we live in a world where it’s where I feel like meanness and bullying, especially online, can be rewarded and ratio ing someone and and hurting someone’s feelings and ridicule and all these things. And, you know, I’ve definitely been a part of that culture when I was younger. I totally get it. I see the funny. We’ve all been to school, we’ve all seen that dynamic play out. But I do think that I around the time that I hit you up I sort of was just it was 2021. And I think I’d hit my limit in like how much vitriol I could see online anymore. And I just wanted to have loving exchanges and so have just been as loving as I can online and on the podcast to try to just find my own like little safe space.

Harry [00:06:13] I’m so sorry, someone’s buzzing at my door which is not ideal for a podcasat.

Jameela [00:06:17] It’s fine. It’s me! Surprise.

Harry [00:06:19] It’s in person! I’m so sorry. Oh, thank you.

Jameela [00:06:23] Was it just a compliment? I think.

Harry [00:06:27] Yeah it was someone who really liked my work. And I was like, great, well done, well done.

Jameela [00:06:33] Just Olivia Coleman just buzzing on your door.

Harry [00:06:35] And I was like, Olivia, not right now. I later I will meet you at the restaurant, but not right now. She won’t stop, it’s a lot.

Jameela [00:06:44] Oh, my goodness. So one of the reasons I wanted you to come on to the podcast other than the fact that I love you very much and I love your kindness. And generally your humanity is something that I find very warm and appealing. But it’s also because I find you to be in spite of being and this sounds deeply patronizing, but in spite of being quite young famously young, you are extremely, extremely wise. And I feel as though you’ve been maybe studying people. I think it’s what makes you such a good observational comedian. I only ever ask people to come on who’ve actually been a part of giving me really good advice so that I trust them to give my audience that same kind of like thoughtful wisdom that comes from a place of wanting the best for people, rather than just thinking that you have the smartest advice.

Harry [00:07:37] I don’t think I don’t think you can ever think of yourself as giving. Like, I think what I do in terms of advice is an I just my my like group of friends I think are like the wisest cleverest people ever. And I basically just dole out their second hand advice and try and live by it. But I think that’s like kind of the only way.

Jameela [00:07:59] Well also you’ve been through, you’ve been through some shit in your life. Do you know what I mean? You had to learn by your own kind of trial and error, and I feel as though it’s part of what’s made you sensitive. And I think it’s also part of what made you. Want to. I think that’s partly where your kindness comes from, is wanting to receive it back.

Harry [00:08:20] Well, that was very, very kind. I think I think I think you’re right. I think I am I have learned to do and I think has been such a useful thing, not just in terms like professionally, but also personally. I’ve kind of reading people. I think I’m quite a good. People reader. And I think just through kind of doing, I think from kind of doing like a lot of jobs at the fringe of things. So whether that’s like temping or just kind of like all these like silly jobs I did in London, I think you it was. It was really helpful because I kind of got to watch people and very much not be watched while I was doing it, like as in the temp you would like. I think often people are kind of disappointed thinking they’ve got like this, like kind of sexy fun temp. And then I would like kind of gangle on through. And so you kind of just end up watching things.

Jameela [00:09:16] Well that’s how you met me. Well, even I didn’t even know when I slid into your DMS that we’d met. I was so fucking mortified.

Jameela [00:09:21] Oh my god, yeah, of course.

Jameela [00:09:24] You were driving a golf buggy because you were working at a Soho farmhouse and I was staying there and we had a right old laugh and I didn’t remember that you are you you would have been about 20 years old and.

Harry [00:09:38] I had just been born. Exactly. But yeah. And I remember what is so because it kind of gone. I mean, it could have gone one or two ways, but you were so lovely and so kind and so chatty. And I remember just thinking like, oh, Jameela Jamil, it’s great. And that was kind of it. And then like.

Jameela [00:09:55] Thank Jesus, like, imagine if I’d slid into DMs all blue ticked up, just being like, Hi, I think you’re so funny. You’re so amazing. I love you so much. And then I’d been a massive cunt to you in person. That is just that would be my my living. That’s my like cold sweat fever dream.

Harry [00:10:12] And so that just like, kind of terrifies you into being nice to people just in case that. Because that could happen.

Jameela [00:10:16] No. Because I live in fear of the fact that I might need to compliment them six or seven years later. Yeah. No, thankfully, I’ve never treated anyone badly because I’ve been just be treated so badly myself. And I know how that feels and I really, really believe in karma.

Harry [00:10:31] Boy oh boy.

Jameela [00:10:33] So it is still from a fear based place. I think that I am a decent.

Harry [00:10:39] Fear based kindness is still kindness. We’ll take it.

Jameela [00:10:42] Potato, potato, Harry.

Harry [00:10:43] Potato, potato.

Jameela [00:10:45] All right. We asked our audience for some life questions, and so I’m going to throw them at you. And and you can just give me your most honest response as to what you would want our listeners to know. Do you feel ready.

Harry [00:11:00] I feel I’m going to really focus on not thinking so much about how important it is to listen to the question and actually listen to the question. And now that I’ve said it, I’ll definitely do it. I’m ready.

Jameela [00:11:12] What is the most important thing that you would tell your young self?

Harry [00:11:18] Ooft. I guess. I guess it would be. Yeah. It it’s seems like unclench. I feel like I spent like so much of my younger years. And I think part of that part of that is I think it’s quite common with growing up gay or queer is that you’re constantly kind of like putting on an act and you’re so terrified that someone’s going to call you out on that act. And I guess I would kind of just like. Yeah. My shoulders drop and just, like, relax and just, like, be in trust that who I like, who I am and who I am continuing to be is actually fine. Like, as in people can’t tell you off for that and people can’t like. Yeah. Chastise you for that. I mean, that would have been a very difficult thing. 15 year old Harry, who wore a lot of acetate print to do. But I’d try. For sure. Also try to buy less Aztec print. That would be my advice.

Jameela [00:12:16] I would have told myself not to join Twitter. Please, no, please, no. Not with this brain. And I think I would have told myself to never trust a fart. And I think I would have. I think similarly with before, like I would have I wish I could have known to to back myself a little bit more. I feel like no one has gotten in my way the way that I have. And I love to blame the patriarchy. And I’m sure the patriarchy is responsible for some of the ways in which I pick myself apart. I have tremendous regret over treating myself the way that I have for almost all of my life. And I’m so sorry to me and I’m so sorry to younger me and I’m trying my best to make it up to that person now, not just in the fact that I am nice to myself or I’m accepting of myself, but also I’m trying to find my childlike joy and do things that are deeply silly, that bring me like immense joy because I feel like I robbed myself and I feel like a lot of people might be able to identify with this. I robbed myself of a lot of my childhood and my teens, and I lost my innocence in striving to be this nonsense version that was created by culture rather than just being me. And so I’m I’m now like, really and I really encourage everyone to do this to just because we’re so perfect when we’re little, you know, we’re so un, untainted comparatively. And so I think getting back to that place of freedom and giving that gift to your sort of inner child is really, really beautiful. And it’s really changing my life now.

Harry [00:13:58] I think so. I think it’s integrit- it’s it’s interesting. It’s almost like, yeah, I know what you mean when you say you like you think of your, like your childhood self. Is this like very like pure. But it’s like it’s almost it’s also like this pre shame version.

Jameela [00:14:10] Yeah.

Harry [00:14:11] And like, my, my friend Rebecca, she’s just Humphries just written a book and she describes it’s like the moment that she first remembered shame. And I thought it was so interesting that like kind of shift of when you of. And it feels like so adult suddenly and so confusing where before you’ve just kind of done what you want and you enjoy it, and if you love it, you love it. And then suddenly it’s I don’t know there’s all these, like. Yeah. Life kind of gets its hooks into you and you feel embarrassed about enjoying something, and you get self-conscious and you’re so right. Like, I wish. Yeah. I think, like, part of me talking to my young self would be, like, grabbing his hand and being like, Come on, come on, let’s go.

Jameela [00:14:56] Yeah. It’s also like, you don’t have to pay rent. You don’t even know what a electricity bill is yet. No one has dumped you yet.

Harry [00:15:03] Every time you go to the fridge, you can get [unrecognized].

Jameela [00:15:06] Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And like you haven’t tried and failed at reverse cowgirl in front of every person you’ve ever slept with. Like so many things

Harry [00:15:15] Ok I thought you did it in front of everyone, I was like when?

Jameela [00:15:19] No, no, yeah can you imagine. My only fans account is the last social media platform I have seen is to.

Harry [00:15:27] It’s the only place I feel authentic and me.

Jameela [00:15:28] I have to be a menace to society.

Harry [00:15:30] Sure. Sure sure sure.

Jameela [00:15:32] You know, like now I felt like this is. Those are the fucking years. And so I’m I’m just trying to find my way back to that kid because I felt like I never got her. I never gave her a chance to grow. So better late than never. And that’s resulting in very, very, very embarrassing, overly loving, gushing, very innocent DMS to young comedians.

Harry [00:15:54] We love it! We absolutely it.

Jameela [00:15:57] But. That’s what this podcast is what all of it is. But but that is that is really it. And it’s never too late to reach that younger self and to kind of fix them. I really, I think that you can heal them later.

Harry [00:16:13] Yeah that’s the thing like talk to your younger self. It’s not, it’s not the it’s not over like it completely isn’t. It’s an ongoing thing. It’s just about reconnecting.

Jameela [00:16:28] Someone wants to know what you’re most proud of yourself for. Very un-British.

Harry [00:16:34] Very un-British. But I really do think it’s my, like, friendship group that I’ve managed to cultivate, like. And only kind of recently have I really had to have I kind of like seen how much I get from it. Because it’s only when you really need those support networks.

Jameela [00:16:54] Is that since I joined? Is that what you’re

Harry [00:16:57] Yeah, exactly.

Jameela [00:16:58] That’s what I’m reading from.

Harry [00:17:00] Yes as well, you should. And I was like, that is help. No. But like, you know, when you like, it’s only when something, when you need people that you realize, oh, I’ve actually built this network of people in order for them, you know, to catch me when I’m like this and you feel so. Yeah, I’m really, like, proud of myself for putting work and time and energy into these friendships that have served me like again and again and again and again. So is like the little Coca Cola machines that you just that you can carry on going up for a refill.

Jameela [00:17:34] I feel exactly the same. And I also feel as though, you know, it’s funny how that’s never one of the things that we are told to strive for. If anything, we are told to do things to strive for these meaningless nonsense things like cars or fashion or this, that and the other. And we end up not seeing our friends. One of the biggest mistakes I feel like I made in my twenties was just like the the fuckin treadmill that I was on the hustle culture and found myself suddenly seeing like a just to to date myself, but like a Facebook like download of 1000 photographs of a brunch that I was like, like got like a big friend group brunch that I was no longer invited because they presumed I wouldn’t come. So they stopped inviting me. It was a huge regret of mine, a massive wake up call. And I was like, This is this. These are the people I’m going to grow old with. This is my chosen family. And I feel exactly the same way, like the the best part of my life. And it includes James because  as much as he’s my boyfriend, he’s also my best friend. I can’t like I look around the table of them and I can’t believe that these amazing people want to spend time with me and it doesn’t matter that I’m paying them, you know, I’m just.

Harry [00:18:40] That’s encouraged. Because that’s the economy.

Jameela [00:18:41] Yeah, right.

Harry [00:18:44] That’s the economy. That’s how it works, Jameela.

Jameela [00:18:50] Yeah. You give them stuff and they want to be there just for you, you know.

Harry [00:18:53] Yeah. And that’s also escrow. I’m pretty sure.

Jameela [00:18:56] No exactly. I paid you to be here today like it’s, it works. Is it capitalism? Sure, but.

Harry [00:19:05] But you know what what for a friendship, it works. We’re like a TSB ad.

Jameela [00:19:09] I really.

Harry [00:19:11] That was a UK reference, but.

Jameela [00:19:11] I know but I really agree. And I do feel as though that’s something that we never think to be super proud of. It’s really not. There aren’t enough great films and TV shows about friendship. It’s all about love and winning the job of your dreams. And I feel like we I like I want the next generation to to understand that they are going to be your everything when you get older and everything comes tumbling down around you. I was having a fucking awful day yesterday and it was my friends and the people around me who are able to bring me up for air. It’s not my teams of people who help me make money. It’s not my job that I do. It’s purely this, this, this selection of amazing people. So I feel the same way.

Harry [00:19:53] Yeah. And it’s and I think it’s they’re so worth putting, putting that effort into it because it can so quickly, you know. Yeah, it’s, I think we’re taught to prioritize kind of everything else, like romantic love and especially our career. And you’ll say, right, that kind of like hustle culture thing. It kind of. But by the time you get whatever you think you want it. And who are you celebrating it with?

Jameela [00:20:22] I someone’s asked. When did you start to focus on yourself and not what society thinks of you? You know, you’ve kind of mentioned being unclenched now and also even in the last two years. Right. You had. And we also cut that out this out because it’s too personal. But you went through like a huge early career dip almost before you’d been able to get started. And you were kind of made to feel like maybe you’re not going to have success in this industry. And you were let down massively by someone and you just didn’t stop. You just kept going a sort of to generate your own material and then went like got online and backed yourself and wrote your own stuff, created your own characters. You didn’t give up on yourself in a way that I find so inspiring. You persevered to the point where you just something and you knew that someone might see the light that you see in yourself. And then they fucking did. And now you actually you’re a working fucking actor. Whereas just two years ago someone told you that they didn’t believe, like someone powerful within your life, told you they didn’t see it for you. Where does that come from?

Harry [00:21:32] I think it’s, yeah, It’s such, it’s such a funny one because like you say it now like and looking back it’s like, how on earth as in the arrogance of me to be like just kidding I’m going to carry on. Like you said, while everyone was like, no, no. And I’m like, You mean yes. And just. But I think it was it was like I think it was lots of small little things that I would do. And I think it’s funny. It’s it is. It is. As soon as I, like, kind of stopped looking. I think I think it was as soon as I tried to stop slotting myself into. Kind of like holes that I was kind of making up in my head as being like, Oh, I’ve got to be this type of actor. If I want to get like, even like I remember like going to auditions and something and stuff and being like, Oh, well, they’ll probably want this type of person. So I’ll act like that kind of person, like just all this like stuff that was just distancing me like further and further from who I was. And yeah, it was only when I started, like, properly investing in myself and what I was good at. That. Yeah. Things. Things took a turn that always. Yeah. Makes me feel so nice that it was. Yeah. And if that investment in myself has has.

Jameela [00:22:43] How do you get there? How do you get there. How did you find that confidence or was it just a fucking you were just throwing shit at a wall.

Harry [00:22:50] I don’t think it was like it was like. I wasn’t confident doing it. The first fact I remember the first time, so I did like sketches early on, like online sketches. And I remember the first time I uploaded one of those I was abs I was mortified. I was so embarrassed. I was like, What on earth are you doing? You silly, silly boy. But it was like. Yeah. It was kind of like ripping. I was like, well, it’s actually it’s it’s that thing that you were talking about earlier. The only thing that was getting in my way was me. And I was like, I know that I’m embarrassed about this, but so what? Like as an if I’m embarrassed and it’s and what I am trying is crap, then at least I’ve tried it and I guess, I guess it was kind of that it was just kind of like getting, getting myself out of the way so that I could get better. I think I think it was also that it was like wanting one thing and liking this, you know, writing and acting stuff enough to want to get better.

Jameela [00:23:52] No, I really appreciate that. I really appreciate perseverance. And it kind of goes back to what I always say about imposter syndrome, where I don’t know if I have necessarily found my confidence. I don’t know. I think I present as very confident because I kind of don’t care. And I think that that isn’t the same as confidence, but it’s extremely powerful and kind of has the same impact where with my imposter syndrome, I have it. I also am a bit of an imposter, you know, because I’m in a new career six years into a career that I had no training or experience in, but I always treat it like a like a wedding that I’ve crashed. And I just think, well, I’m here now, so I might as well trying to get, you know, like some cake and a snog while I can.

Harry [00:24:33] You have been so good, you taught me that so I remember you saying that so early on. And I think because like when I was like first getting jobs and stuff, I was, I wasn’t enjoying it because I was so nervous about them and being like, What if they’ve made a horrible mistake and they’re going to but instead you like kind of like really shifted my head about that just being like, No, no, they’ve invited you to the wedding, get as much free stuff as you can and like enjoy it and relish it because otherwise you just I don’t know. Like, isn’t what if in whatever world that the worst thing that happens happens, then it’s just happening twice because you’re already worrying about it. So just enjoy it while it’s not happening and then see what happens.

Jameela [00:25:14] I so feel I so feel that way because. But I feel I feel so strongly about that. I really I like I’m big on a fuck it bucket. I’m big on the fact that like if if the alternative, like if the worst thing is going to happen to you isn’t like death or severe loss of any kind, if it’s just a bit of embarrassment, potentially a bit of shame, like we’re already embarrassed and ashamed in our heads anyway,.

Harry [00:25:43] All the time.

Jameela [00:25:43] May as well just fucking go for it. And the worse it goes wrong, the better the story is for your friends. And no one’s thinking about it, Harry.

Harry [00:25:51] Totally.

Jameela [00:25:51] No one’s thinking about the story at the pub.

Harry [00:25:55] Anecdotal material.

Jameela [00:25:55] Nobody thinks of anecdote. I live for anecdotes and I think that’s a big part of-

Harry [00:26:00] The number of bad date that I’ve continued because I’m like my friends. My friends will love this story. My friends will love the story and I’m going to do it for them.

Jameela [00:26:08] Can you tell me about any of them?

Harry [00:26:11] Yeah, I can tell you about one, which also so for people listening, you may see this one day in something I write because it just it I can’t I can’t not have it there. But I remember I had just come back from Edinburgh Fringe for the first time, so it must be like 2017. I was a young buck at like 22, 23 years old and I decided that I was like, just wanted to go on a date that evening. And I was like, I’m feeling spontaneous and I’m matched with this guy on a dating app. And he said, And honestly, now I look back at it’s like Red flag, red flag, red flag. But he said in his bio, he was like, Show me how spontaneous you are. And I was like, That’s my word of the day. Anyway, so we started chatting and we ended up organizing to see each other that day, and he was just like, Go to this tube station and we’ll work out what to do there. So I went to the tube station and then he was like and I was like, Hey, where are you? And I was like and he was like, I’m at Waterstones and I was like, which is a bookshop for US listeners. And it was the Waterloo, it was Leicester Square stations. There are so many exits. Already, it was very overwhelming. And then I end up finally finding this bookshop and this guy was there and he just had his back to me and he wouldn’t even turn round. And I was like, Hi, are you? And then he was like, Pick one. And I was like, Excuse me. And he basically made me pick a book and he’s like, I’m going to go buy this one. And he kind of took this, like, spontaneous ego to such manic heights. He then and I kid not, there was a display globe. He spins it and points it as being like, yes, that’s where I will live next. And then he says that we’re going to decide where we go next by him spinning round and pointing, and that’s where we’ll go. So we ended up in a Caffe Nero in Leicester Square, and it was just and it just like these things, just this reel of spontaneous, in inverted commas, behavior kept happening. And every single time I sent my friends will love this, my friends will love this. But he was um,

Jameela [00:28:25] He was playing a part. He was trying to create a movie.

Harry [00:28:31] Yeah, but it came across as so sinister.

Jameela [00:28:31] He wants to be the guy that you, Oh, no, it’s sinister. But it’s also so cynical and so disingenuous. I’ve definitely I’ve definitely done that once someone. But in a very extreme, expensive way. So like someone somewhere is going to do a podcast about what a twat I am maybe. I there was a guy that I was going on a date with and we’ve been friends a really long time and I didn’t know how to gear change into romance. And so I was like, Right, it was us. This is going to be our second date maybe? I think so. And I was like, okay, here’s a list of shopping things that you have to go out and buy an included like hiking socks, but not shoes, a tuxedo, 12 a 12 pack of toilet roll, uh, half a dozen eggs, tartan paint, which obviously doesn’t exist. It was a test of whether or not he was fucking stupid. And I’m pretty sure something like a carving knife.

Harry [00:29:30] And this was you trying to up the romance.  By making him get a pack of loo roll.

Jameela [00:29:33] Right, right. Yeah, yeah. A carving knife. Yeah, yeah. A carving knife and passport. And I was like. Like, these are all the things you have to bring. You have to be at my house at 7 a.m., which, as you know, is the most romantic time of day.

Harry [00:29:45] It’s so at 7 a.m.? Yeah.

Jameela [00:29:48] Yeah, it’s the real magic hour. So he’s, like, anxious for the entire two weeks leading up to this. I give him two weeks to get.

Harry [00:29:56] You gave him two weeks? That’s also enough time to kill a romance.

Jameela [00:30:01] I’m a fucking murderer. Clearly. So I give him two weeks, and I’m like, Great. I will see. I will see you at my house at 7 a.m. in two weeks. You’re go, go, go shop, child. I didn’t do that. Anyway, so. So he turns up at my house. I’m terrified at 7 a.m. because. Why the hiking socks but not the shoes? I think the 12 pack of loo roll and the knife in particular, I think really. Concerned him.

Harry [00:30:27] Yeah bc 12 pack of knife. I was just like 12 pack of not knife. Of loo roll. I just think am I just doing your shopping.

Jameela [00:30:33] Yes. But also it’s the six eggs, which actually would have been genius if I’d been in a kind of dominatrix situation. Anyway, so he he turns up he’s exhausted. He’s so stressed. The six eggs already throwing him off as well. I, I blindfold him and put him in a car.

Harry [00:30:54] Did you have a game plan? Because this is stressing me out.

Jameela [00:30:54] No, no, no. I did.

Harry [00:30:56] Okay.

Jameela [00:30:58] So I blindfold him.

Harry [00:30:59] You had two weeks.

Jameela [00:31:03] I put him in a car. And I don’t tell him where we’re going. Like, fully. This is like a full kidnap after making this man spend, like, at least a hundred quid, I think on the shopping stuff, we get out at King’s Cross Station, which is where you can go to many different parts of not just England, but also Europe from there and we get out at the station, I unblindfold him. He has no idea what’s going on. He’s now slightly angry, which is completely fair.

Harry [00:31:29] Yeah because all the traveling time must have been pretty awkward.

Jameela [00:31:31] And then I take this hundred pounds worth of shopping that he’s done and I just throw it away. I throw it away right in front of him. Now he’s fucking pissed. I only keep the tuxedo and the passport, obviously the passport and I hand it back to him with a ticket to Paris to go to Disneyland just for the day. And so the reason I’ve asked him to bring a tuxedo is that because we’re going to go to Disneyland for the first half of the day and then halfway through the day I sort of like no like 5 p.m. after having been like on rides all day. We both have to run to the Gare du Nord in Paris, which is like the big international train station. And we have and our stuff will be is locked in lockers because when we first arrived to Paris, we locked our stuff in lockers. So I get out my like like beautiful gown and he gets out his tuxedo. And we literally have to, like, run across Paris to go and have dinner inside the Eiffel Tower. And then we went. And then went back.

Harry [00:32:32] Jameela that’s so ambitious.

Jameela [00:32:33] It’s so insane.

Harry [00:32:34] It’s so ambitious.

Jameela [00:32:35] And we weren’t together very long, so it was just like so much money. And I was just I was.

Harry [00:32:42] Also also, again.

Jameela [00:32:44] So unhinged.

Harry [00:32:46] It was so unhinged. It was Disneyland in itself. I haven’t been, but I can’t imagine. It’s like a sexy vibe, I imagine it’s like lots of children.

Jameela [00:32:55] But I’m not a sexy vibe.

Harry [00:32:57] And. But then center of the Eiffel Tower. Too sexy.

Jameela [00:33:01] Yes. Yes. Like completely insane.

Harry [00:33:04] Yeah. Yeah and also so of obviously sexy that it negates the sexy.

Jameela [00:33:12] Yeah well because the cliche.

Harry [00:33:15] Anyway. That’s how you met James.

Jameela [00:33:17] No. James got, like, a doodle that I did of him on our first date. Like, he’ll be horrified when he hears this.

Harry [00:33:23] So you went slightly lower stakes.

Jameela [00:33:25] Yeah, well, because I think I think what I was probably trying to do especially because it was a friend and because I’m also like so romantically challenged, because I can’t pick up on cues, social cues very often and I can’t pick up on romantic cues at all. Someone has to be inside me before I understand that there’s any kind of like connection there. And it wasn’t just in my head. I gaslight myself the entire time I’m with someone I’m attracted to. And so I, I think I was just through, going through a phase in my twenties of just trying to maybe like this poor bastard in the bookshop might manufacture some sort of romance because I felt like inherently incapable of it. But what a psychotic first date.

Harry [00:34:08] I can imagine. At the end of it, were you the most exhausted person that’s ever been.

Jameela [00:34:12] I was. I was. No, I was so energized. I was absolutely frozen myself. It’s taken ten years for me to look back on that as not iconic and just like a big red flag. Like I just may as well have just been like, honestly, like, like. Like, you know, like a bull fighter level red fucking flag.

Harry [00:34:30] Yeah, I mean, think about how, how he told that to his friends.

Jameela [00:34:34] No, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. Somewhere, he’s probably slagging me off on a podcast.

Jameela [00:34:47] We’re going to do one or two more serious questions. We’ve done a lot about confidence and worth. There’s a good one that I really like, which is how do you weigh the value of an argument over walking away?

Harry [00:34:58] Oh, oh my God. That is such a good question.

Jameela [00:35:01] It’s such a good question so I had to ask it.

Harry [00:35:02] And the person who wrote that question is already so much wiser than us two idiots.

Jameela [00:35:06] Yes.

Harry [00:35:07] For even, like, phrasing it like that. Wow. See I part of me as I am so terrible at arguments.

Jameela [00:35:17] You’re not confrontational?

Harry [00:35:19] No. Oh, my God. No, I am so. The only person I have, like like argument arguments with really is my brother and also sometimes my housemate just because we’re very, very close. But even then, if I have an argument, I get so lightheaded, I feel like I’m going to faint. I’m terrible, terrible at confrontation. But then I’m trying to get better at it. And I think that is the value thing where I’m just like, if I feel like I’m not sticking up for myself, then that’s not good enough and I need to stick up for myself enough to kind of have the confrontation that if I’m just a yeah, I don’t think I would do like an argument for argument’s sake. I’d more readily run like, run away from it. What are you good at complaints?

Jameela [00:36:10] I mean, I’m. I think we. We all gather by this point of of experiencing me or perceiving me that I am quite confrontational. Am deeply, deeply confrontational. But I am only confrontational when I actually care about when I actually think there’s a tangible outcome. So.

Harry [00:36:34] Yeah, that’s smart.

Jameela [00:36:36] I like, I don’t like if someone is just offensive because they’re just a prick and they’re getting something off their chest, like, I’m not going to bother to confront that. Or if I’m having a, a problem with a, with a friend or a colleague where I don’t actually care anymore if they change, like I’m just kind of over the connection. There is a, a fundamental lack of respect from them towards me, or maybe I’m like, whatever. But I only, for example, I’ll never argue with a friend unless I actually want that relationship to last. I only fight when I see like a merit in change. When I actually want them to change. I won’t tell someone what I think is like wrong with them or their behavior or how offensive they are unless it actually benefits me for them to change. If I’m not going to really care either way, there’s no point. So I don’t expend my energy unnecessarily unless it’s really for my own, like, you know, benefit or the benefit of the greater good. So I’ll pick a fight with a very famous influencer about diet tea not because I dislike that person or have any personal feelings about them, but just because I literally want them to stop selling that diet tea. And I know that I can probably stop them from doing it.

Harry [00:37:44] Yeah, well then I think that’s good though because that’s saying that that confrontation always comes from quite like a hateful place, like, as and if you’re having the confrontation, is that about word the confrontation. Confrontation?

Jameela [00:37:56] Yes. That’s a real word.

Harry [00:37:56] If you’re having the confrontation then.

Jameela [00:38:00] Harry has just had Covid everyone.

Harry [00:38:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is why my, my brain has died in many, many ways. But yeah, if you if you’re having that, then it means that you still have the like. Yeah. The hope that, that something will change, either your relationship will get better or whatever the topic is can be.

Jameela [00:38:19] Yeah. I only fight for what’s actually really worth fighting for cause I find fighting very exhausting. And I find the idea of the labor of explaining to someone ways in which they are hurtful, or shit, very exhausting. Like it’s really only like what is in it for me. And even with an influencer who’s selling diet culture, it’s like, Oh God, it would be so great for me if diet culture ends because it keeps trying to suck me back into my eating disorder like it benefits all of us. But it’s amazing. It, it, maybe it makes me sound selfish by I don’t really give a shit, but I, I, I really can’t be arsed with any interaction with anyone that doesn’t have like a proper point to it. And I think that’s maybe as I’m getting older and I feel as though I’m running out of time. But I you know because you become more aware of time.

Harry [00:38:57] Say you’re peace. Yeah.

Jameela [00:38:57] You become more aware of time, you become more aware of time. I think it’s why we chisel down on friendship groups and we change the ways in which we socialize. As we get older, we become more aware that like, okay, Jesus Christ, two years have just flown by of my life. I need to. I need to be much more intentional. And so so, you know, I really think it’s about fundamentally thinking. Is there a point? Is there likely to be any change? How will that change benefit you or the world?

Harry [00:39:25] I think that’s such a good I’m going to I’m going to try and keep that in mind when I have my little confrontation with my brother. Will this change the world?

Jameela [00:39:32] Let me I mean, let us know. Call in.

Harry [00:39:34] I will I absolutely will.

Jameela [00:39:36] Okay. What book would you recommend everyone reads?

Harry [00:39:40] Oh. I’m trying to think of like a very helpful book, but I just read a book. Okay, actually, now I’ve got it. It’s why Why Did You Stay? By Rebecca Humphries because it’s so brilliant and so funny and so important. And it’s about self-worth. It’s about a lot of the things that we are talking about. And it’s just the most brilliant memoir by the most brilliant person and friend. And then in terms of fiction, I just read this really beautiful book Song of Achilles and it makes you want to go on holiday and be gay. And those are two wonderful things.

Jameela [00:40:20] That’s excellent. God we needed we needed that book when we were younger. Jesus Christ, my book is Oh, God, it’s so disappointingly by a straight white male. And I’m sorry, but it just happens to be the book that changed my life. And so I’ll recommend it to you. But it’s called The Yes Man, and it’s by Danny Wallace, who I think is one of the great British silly authors. And as a deeply silly person, it’s the book that is responsible for my whole life and my career. He’s actually on this. He was on this podcast last year and I got to talk to him about it, but he wrote a podcast about a very depressed man who decided to start saying yes to absolutely everything. And barring anal for myself personally, because I have a tiny, tiny, tiny little bumhole like sort of.

Harry [00:41:11] Brag.

Jameela [00:41:11] A cat’s bumhole I know. I, I have thrown myself for everything. And I think part of what galvanized me to do that was this book about this man’s adventure saying yes, finally to everything where we are so encouraged to say no. And so that for me was just a transformative book that I think all young people should read just so that they have that kind of like injection of joie de vivre, as as as the world starts trying to fearmonger out of everything and tell you that you have to pick the subject now that you’re going to study at university and then go on to have a career. And everyone’s terrifying you at that age. And I wish more people would read that book.

Harry [00:41:52] Well, you’ve got one extra reader here. I’m going to I’m going to order it now.

Jameela [00:41:57] Okay. We’re going to go back to some little serious ones, which is how do you deal with a rough breakup?

Harry [00:42:05] You know, it’s it’s it’s so annoyingly time and I wish it wasn’t I remember hearing that. And thinking, well, that’s so useless. But it’s it is time. And also someone someone once told me that break ups are very expensive. Buy yourself nice things if you can’t don’t get any. But like as in if you can get yourself nice things and it will, it will help.

Jameela [00:42:35] I’ll tell you one thing I don’t recommend, because I did it in my twenties before it was a thing. But I don’t get a revenge body because actually it’s the time when you most need some fucking snacks and you end up just like hungry and exhausted and self fixated and in the negative ways. So I wouldn’t recommend the revenge body. I recommend deep, deep, deep care. And just giving yourself the the the healing and love that maybe you weren’t getting in that relationship.

Harry [00:43:09] Yeah, totally. Be the partner you needed.

Jameela [00:43:12] Yeah. Be your boyfriend. I also started frating where me and one of my best male friends started dating each other, but in completely aromantic way. So what we decided to do is that neither of us were wanted to be emotionally engaged with anyone, and we both enjoyed each other’s company. And what we started doing was using each other to go on really like fun and exciting and culturally experiential dates and finding new rituals together so that so that we could not only, like, kind of fill that void to stop each other from going into new relationships that would that we weren’t ready for and that we weren’t like emotionally. We were just way too emotionally vulnerable. So we were protecting each other from that loneliness that lead to it sometimes into a rebound situation. But also we were using it as like recon work, as research, so that by the time we did start dating, we knew all these new like museums and exhibitions and, and, and restaurants and what’s the best thing on that restaurant? Like we were we were we were almost like two sociopaths or serial killers. We were like.

Harry [00:44:18] Kind of learning how to be successful daters.

Jameela [00:44:20] Yeah, exactly. We were sort of we wanted to blow people’s minds the next time we were actually available.

Harry [00:44:25] You have to get the tuna tartar.

Jameela [00:44:26] Exactly. And so we went like within six months, we were two of like suddenly these two bums, we’re like the two of the most like culturally knowledgeable,.

Harry [00:44:36] Oh my god.

Jameela [00:44:36] You know, go members of London. It was very, very short lived, but it was so healing and it was the best thing I’ve ever done after a breakup, rather than because I’m a ship jumper.

Harry [00:44:47] Oh that’s so smart.

Jameela [00:44:48] Otherwise, I jumped straight into another relationship. I and it was the only time I didn’t do that. And it it meant that the next time I got into a relationship, I was actually really ready for it and also knew that I looked really good.

Harry [00:45:03] But also what is so lovely you kind of did jump into another relationship, but it was like friendship, which is like such a healthier thing to kind of. Yeah, put that, put that emotional.

Jameela [00:45:15] Yeah. And it doesn’t it doesn’t matter the gender of the friend I highly recommend frating.

Harry [00:45:21] Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Jameela [00:45:21] As a coping mechanism it gets you out. And it, it really like it really like fills the void without filling your void, you know what I mean? The void needs to stay unfilled for a moment.

Harry [00:45:34] Unfilled the void of them to thin out.

Jameela [00:45:35] For me personally, some people like to get over somebody, but by getting under somebody, I also advocate for that. But for me personally, as the kind of person who has the emotional skill set of taking someone to Disneyland, Paris on a first date.

Harry [00:45:50] And the Eiffel Tower. Mm hmm.

Jameela [00:45:55] God, I’m so embarrassed that I’ve actually told everyone that story.

Harry [00:45:57] No

Jameela [00:45:58] I’m not sure if it’s going to make it in. Should I keep it in the podcast?

Harry [00:46:01] No, I think you should, because I think it also just shows that you’re a hopeful romantic. And I think it’s

Jameela [00:46:06] I’m not even.

Harry [00:46:07] Very, very endearing.

Jameela [00:46:09] That’s the saddest thing is that I’m not even romantic. I don’t actually have a romantic bone in my body, which I think is why I went so far and what I did was so lacking in.

Harry [00:46:17] You’re like, this is romance.

Jameela [00:46:19] Authenticity. I was like, This is a movie. That guy that you went on a date with, like, missed a red flag. Yeah, he just, like, he didn’t have any actual romance or real spontaneity.

Harry [00:46:28] Your person got to go to Disneyland. And I went to Caffe Nero.

Jameela [00:46:33] Yeah, I know. Sucks to be you.

Harry [00:46:34] I’d rather be your one. Yeah. Mine was the budget version.

Jameela [00:46:36] Maybe we’ll frate even though I’m with James.

Harry [00:46:39] Yeah. No, I’d like James can come.

Jameela [00:46:41] So someone’s asked, how do you both communicate best in a romantic relationship? Any advice for making it work?

Harry [00:46:48] Are you good at it?

Jameela [00:46:49] I am.

Harry [00:46:49] Yeah I thought you were. Yeah, I knew you were going to be.

Jameela [00:46:55] But the reason I’m good at it is because I am aware of all of my many shortcomings, like interrupting and again, not picking up on social cues. Uh, not not like being able to read people in the moment very well and being thrown by tangents and being thrown by not being able to just finish my point, which is impossible to do in an argument where you’re criticizing each other because you both want to defend yourselves. So I think being aware of my social shortcomings means that I know that the best way for me to communicate in a relationship is emails. An email means you just get to fully make your whole point. They don’t get to interrupt you. They have to read everything before they respond in full context. They have time to. When it gets too much to step away, walk away from it and come back to it when they feel ready and they also don’t have to like. It’s really hard to have to in person face something that is difficult to hear and it’s really hard to be able to behave graciously, to be able to put your ego aside, to be able to say things you won’t regret, to not react with pride. These are all things I think we all struggle with. And so for me, it like some people think it’s cold, but I think it’s quite charitable to give someone like the privacy and dignity of responding in their own time, on their own terms, and not like while being perceived. It’s awful to be perceived while being criticized or told something difficult.

Harry [00:48:27] I think it works. It’s like. Really like. Common thing that you’re always told oh you should have that conversation in person, you should have that conversation in person. But like, I’m actually I’m very much in your camp, like, as in when I’m in person. Yeah, I think. Yeah. Let’s say that you were you were criticizing me. I was sobbing very beautifully, but sobbing. But like the way that I would respond.

Jameela [00:48:55] If you would be very dewy sobbing.

Harry [00:48:57] Oh, very dewy sobbing. Exactly. But it would probably be much more self-defensive than it would be if you’d like written me something and I had time to digest it. Do you know what I mean? I think. I think. I think that so much better.

Jameela [00:49:10] But also the combat of the situation means you’re going back and forth, back and forth. And so not all of your points actually get answered. Whereas in email, they have to go back like paragraph by paragraph or line by line. And be like and I respond to this and I respond to that.

Harry [00:49:23] How do you sign off? Yours sincerely.

Jameela [00:49:25] Yeah. Yours sincerely. HRH Jameela Jamil. .

Harry [00:49:32] Very nice. And then I include my showreel at the bottom.

Jameela [00:49:36] I yeah. I sign off. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Harry [00:49:40] Love always, Jameela Jamil.

Jameela [00:49:43] Well, I think I just sign off normally. Just like saying, like I’m saying all of this because I want us to be better and more connected. Like, that’s why I’m saying all of this is not because I’m trying to break us. I’m trying to stop us from falling apart. Like, please take this with, like, my best of intention. It also gives me the opportunity, by the way, to when I am being a fucking prick, to have a second to when I say something that’s a cheap shot or below the belt, which we are all capable of when we’re angry. I also have time before I send it to go back and stop myself from saying the thing that I can’t take back. It doesn’t matter how much you say you’re sorry. There are some things that you say in the heat of the moment that someone can’t unhear. Even if they know you didn’t mean it. Even if they know that you’re sorry and. And. And you’ve tried to make amends. There are some things that never go away. And so it stops me from saying those things that I won’t be able to stand by in three months in six months in a year. And so I think that’s the other benefit. So I’m for I’m for a cold, you know, email because I actually think it’s good for folks personally to find it. Yeah, I find it more more loving personally.

Jameela [00:50:52] Yeah.

Jameela [00:50:53] And then I think you follow up obviously with the personal conversation when you’ve both kind of like gotten the main points out of the way and you’re ready to communicate, but you’ve had time to settle. It allows things to settle and engages a part of your brain. There’s something about writing things down, that engages a part of your brain that I think is more thoughtful.

Harry [00:51:10] But also because you process it like as in I know for me whenever I need to like process big thoughts, I always, I always take them down because it’s kind of useless them just being in your head because you just it’s all jumbled up and you can go over the same points again and again. But as soon as it’s out in writing, then it might not make complete sense, but definitely makes more sense.

Jameela [00:51:33] We have another question. That’s one that maybe I don’t know if we’ve ever been in, but this is how should I navigate my boyfriend’s dad not acknowledging me? He is apparently emotionally unavailable. I mean I just don’t give a shit.

Harry [00:51:51] Oh. I was going to you no what I was going to say I guess it depends on how involved in your life he is. It’s like because if you just like see him once in a while, it’s just like, you don’t need to. He’s not giving up it to you, then you don’t need to give it to him. But if it’s someone they’re seeing so, so regularly. Yeah as the new person. You can’t. You want him to be kind of like I don’t know. Welcoming.

Jameela [00:52:18] Yeah, I don’t know. Like, I feel like if I’m not. I feel like if we’re not, I’m not banging someone or being friends with someone. I really have no interest in their noticing me or making time for me cause I don’t particularly want to make time for them either. Like if someone’s emotionally unavailable and has like a bit of an offputting vibe, therefore a disrespectful vibe, I kind of don’t really want to be friends with them either, but I don’t have thing that makes me want to win them over. I’m just like, Great. Okay, well, you stay over there. I’ll stay over here at the side of the table. And even if we have see each other regularly, I really only crave the respect of people that I respect. As a rule.

Harry [00:52:58] See I would I would bend over backwards for that. My God, I’d be like throwing all of my beliefs under the table, whether whatever he agreed with I’d agree with too start slagging off anyone that’s like them off too. I’d make him force him.

Jameela [00:53:14] Elaborate gifts?.

Harry [00:53:15] Oh my God. I, you know, I wouldn’t be able to pay rent because of the beautiful golf clubs I bought for him, but. Right. Don’t listen to me. Listen to Jameela. She’s much wiser. Please, for the love of God, listen to her.

Jameela [00:53:33] Everything is just. Life is too short. And there are just too many people in the world who are probably going to be much more worth your time than the people who explicitly aren’t. So like, I will not I will not give a moment of my energy to someone who I don’t wish to actually be close to, not a single moment. I cannot be arsed at all because I consider my time too valuable. I consider myself too valuable to have to put myself in that position. So I think the the the writer who’s who’s written this in I think you need to work on, you know, as we kind of referenced earlier in this podcast, backing yourself and asking yourself, do you know, James had really bad social anxiety for a few years. And I explained, you know, part of that came from the fact that he used to worry when he would talk. I think a lot of people find this accessible about what other people think of him when he was talking to them. And I said to him, I don’t do that. I’m I’m wondering whether I like the person that I’m talking to. When I’m having a new conversation with someone I’m not looking for. Am I impressing them? Am I engaging them I’m looking for are we connected? Is there any reason I should continue this conversation or pursue anything further with this person? Do you not impress me? But do I find merit and interest and excitement in you? I think it’s it’s worrying when we walk around constantly auditioning for other people and not being and take us to like what serves us what, you know, we’re discouraged from thinking that’s considered like selfish or self-serving and narcissistic. And maybe it is all of those things, but it makes for a happier life with with less boring engagements.

Harry [00:55:23] No. But also what I will say is that because I think I I’m not saying that James does this, but I definitely have more of that where I’m just like, oh, god, are they being are they so bored by me? And may not like all the stuff, but actually the way that you do it, you’re actually focusing on the other person. It’s much less self-involved because you’re actually listening to what they’re saying.

Jameela [00:55:43] Judgemental.

Harry [00:55:43] Rather then. No, no, I genuinely I think that’s a good thing. So you’re just actually focusing on what the other person saying, listening to them rather than. You know, wringing your hands about how you’re coming across.

Jameela [00:55:56] Well it’s just exhausting. Like, I think I’m I’ve never been upset when I get rejected romantically, which was the vast majority of the first two decades of my life, because I always think, well, then it wasn’t a good fit. If they’re not really into me, then, this isn’t then this isn’t right. And there’s clearly some sort of pheromones missing or there’s some sort of attraction that’s not there. So why waste my time trying to pursue that? I’ll just move on.

Harry [00:56:25] Yeah, I do the same thing, but through like shaky breaths like not really believing myself and being like. Well, it just Billy wasn’t into me.

Jameela [00:56:33] Well, I don’t know. I think maybe I’m just a bit of a selfish prick, but I think. I think selfish pricks are really underrated. If I’m honest.

Harry [00:56:42] I would agree with that. I think we should all be selfish pricks.

Jameela [00:56:44] And I think I think that’s the well, that’s the cut out. That’s the clip.

Harry [00:56:49] That’s yeah, we should all selfish pricks.

Jameela [00:56:50] When we advertise this. I’m just going to have you say that one sentence completely out of context apropos of nothing.

Harry [00:56:56] Yeah, yeah. And or just like cut it. So every, every answer I give is just we should all be selfish, pricks.

Jameela [00:57:02] So as we round off, we want people to be kinder to themselves. We want them to kill the negative self-talk. We want them to judge others as to whether or not those people are right for us. We really it’s it’s a it’s a selfish episode, mostly driven by me.

Harry [00:57:22] It’s a very selfish episode. No but as in it’s. It’s making I’m going to leave this podcast and do something incredibly selfish.

Jameela [00:57:29] Just go out and like kick at ranny, like I don’t know what’s going to happen

Harry [00:57:32] How would that be selfish? I mean, I might be able to rebrand it. I’ll, I’ll say, but don’t and don’t go looking for like kicked over Granny’s in Lambeth Council.

Jameela [00:57:43] Listen, I just want all of you to feel empowered. I want you to brag, and I want you to look after ourselves. Because honestly, if we don’t look after ourselves, who the fuck is going to? And so, Harry, thanks so much for coming on and chatting and listening to my stupid fucking stories and telling me your stupid fucking stories. I adore you and I’m so, so lucky that you’re my friend.

Harry [00:58:08] I adore you, too. I’m so, so lucky you’re my friend. Even though my brain was functioning at like. 3%. I think also a celebration to how lovely it is to make friends later in life like you can carry on doing and doing it and doing it. And it’s a really special thing.

Jameela [00:58:28] Yeah, don’t be sad if you’re losing friends at the moment and if you’re young and if your friendship circles may be getting a little bit smaller, don’t be afraid of it because you never know where and when you’re going to collect the people who are the most right for who you actually are now.

Harry [00:58:41] Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally.

Jameela [00:58:44] Love you.

Harry [00:58:45] Love you.

Jameela [00:58:45] Bye.

Jameela [00:58:48] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela. Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela, Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything. Check it out. You can get a free month the stitcher premium by going stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code I Weigh. Lastly over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 18186605543 or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. Here is an I Weigh from one of our listeners. I weigh the love of my closest friends and family. The drive to make myself better. My anxiety and everything it has taught me about myself. The love I have for my dog who came to me after my dad died suddenly last year and honest to God, saved me. Every book I’ve read, every TV show I’ve binged, and every movie I’ve sat through because these are the ways in which I grow and learn and make my little slice of existence worthwhile.