EP. 173 — Sasheer Zamata

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, a podcast against shame. I hope you’re well, and before I get started, I just wanted to say thank you so much for your incredibly cool reaction to last week’s episode. I was very surprised because I was scared that you would be angry with me because it’s quite controversial. And yet, your letters have been so positive and so loving and so insightful and interesting. And I so appreciate the fact that you will give me the benefit of the doubt and know that I’m really just looking for answers. I’m looking for enlightenment and new paths for all of us to try and feel better or understand the world in a way that makes us feel more seen or heard or understood, and this chat was that for me. And I was so surprised to see how many of you responded to it similarly. So thank you again for sharing it with people and thank you for giving it a chance and giving me and Seerut a chance. She really is so refreshing whether you agree with her or not. It’s so cool to see a woman, especially a woman of color, just go up against the mainstream narrative for what she believes in [00:01:00] because she wants to help people and she is willing to take on any amount of scrutiny and criticism in order to do that. I think it’s very cool.

We have another lovely guest on this week. Her name is Sasheer Zamata, and you may know her from SNL, you may know her from stand up, you may know her from her wonderful podcast. She’s an actress who is joining the Marvel Universe. She’s just got it all going on. And I’m so lucky to have had some time to sit down with her today, and in spite of all of her massive, massive successes, she’s someone who still struggles tremendously with anxiety and has struggled with mental health in her life. I think she’s getting to a really good place now and talks to me about her journey, talks to me about how bad her anxiety got to the point of heart palpitations, talks about what she did to be able to get to a better place. We talk about how together we challenge the idea that it’s all just mental illness and not sometimes just a really normal reaction to a very abnormal world, and an abnormal amount of time on social media, and an abnormal amount of bad news all over the [00:02:00] place, all of the fucking doom scrolling that we’re doing. It’s hard not to be anxious. It feels almost like there would be something wrong with you if you weren’t at all anxious. I have no idea. I mean, I’m not a doctor. I left school at 16, as we know.

Anyway, in this episode, we also talk about her activism with ACLU and everything she’s been doing since she had a platform for women’s rights, and we have a very poignant discussion about the devastating statistics around black women’s health care when it comes to the medical industry that is the United States of America and how they are discriminated against, how their pain is not believed, how her pain has not been believed in the past, how mothers are treated because of the colour of their skin and how the medical industry has historically believed that black skin is different to white skin in that it is thicker and therefore black people feel less pain and therefore need less attention or less painkillers or less care. It’s really shocking, it’s really upsetting, but she speaks about it really beautifully in this [00:03:00] episode.

We also talk about periods and how important it is for us to all get a bit more vocal and graphic about it, both with ourselves and with everyone else around us. And Sasheer is particularly hilarious on this subject. I love all of her stand up around it and it’s genuinely had an impact on me and made me more vocal about my period. She’s really good at coaxing the shame out of people. We also talk about her journey through the acting industry as a darker skinned black woman and we talk about everything that she has done to get herself to a better place, to a more resilient place, to a more positive place.

And I love those episodes where I’m speaking to someone who’s, who’s finding their peace and giving me all the tips and tricks as to how to get there. She’s just a very sweet, smart, kind human and it’s very fun to watch her go from success to success to success because we need more people like that in this industry in my opinion. So this is the lovely Sasheer Zamata [00:04:00]

Sasheer, welcome to I Weigh, how are you?

Sasheer: I am good. Thank you so much for having me.

Jameela: Thank you for being here. I’m a massive fan of yours, and I’m thrilled, thrilled to have you. I guess I will traditionally start off with how are you? How have you been?

Sasheer: Thank you so much for asking. I have been really good. I’m just like trying to be outside, trying to be, like, enjoy the sun. I’m in Mexico right now. I, I have been trying to bodyboard and that’s really fun.

Jameela: Mm hmm. Is that quite,

Sasheer: You know.

Jameela: Painful?

Sasheer: Uh, yeah. For me, for me so far, yes.

Jameela: I have no core. So I, I, I tried it once and just got like almost broke my nose and I was like, cool, I’m done. I’m done.

Sasheer: Yeah. There’s been like a few times where the waves just [00:05:00] crashed on my face and then like I, I hit the sand and then like the wave rushes up my everything and then I go home and I’m like, oh, there’s sand all up inside of me.

Jameela: Yeah, yeah, in places that we didn’t know exist.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Surprise in the pap smear a year later.

Sasheer: I was like, oh, pearls down here. Look at that.

Jameela: I guess because I don’t want to take up loads of your time. I’m going to jump straight in with asking you about mental health. It’s one of the things that I love talking about on this podcast. And I think because you are a hilarious woman and also a very beautiful woman and you are very successful. So I’m just wanking you off now, aren’t I? Um, but I, I think that sometimes people might look at someone like you and, uh, not have a sense of your journey. And I think comedians kind of walk this really interesting line of being able to talk quite frankly about their issues, but also not making it seem like it’s consuming them because [00:06:00] they’re covering it with a smile. So what has your journey with mental health been like?

Sasheer: It’s still a journey. It’s been a lot of rediscovery and initial discovery. Um, I feel like a lot of the comedians I know have anxiety issues or depression issues, which I think I like, have people in my life who have severe issues, so I think I thought maybe I didn’t have that because I don’t have a severe anxiety problem. But then like the more research I was doing and and also the more I went to doctors and I was like, oh yes, I, I too can be affected by this.

Jameela: You had heart palpitations, right?

Sasheer: Yeah, I did. I really started in college. Um, I started getting these like, my, my heart would like skip a beat. And

Jameela: What does that feel like?

Sasheer: What does it feel like? It feels like a hiccup inside.

Jameela: Oh my God.

Sasheer: It feels like, it feels like a, like a, like a stutter step. Like, it’s like, oh, like something, [00:07:00] something’s off. And it wasn’t like, oh no, I’m dying. It was just like some, like something’s wrong with my internal clock. And so I remember going to the, the hospital at my school and my college at UVA. And I had to wear a heart monitor that was, like, kind of a pager.

Jameela: No, I’ve worn one of those and you can’t, like, shower for days.

Sasheer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they assessed everything and they’re like, you do have an abnormal heartbeat, but it’s nothing to worry about. So I didn’t. I didn’t worry about it for years. And then in the last couple years, like, consistently, my heart would, like, skip a beat, but nothing crazy. But then the last couple years, the intensity increased and the frequency increased. Like it felt like harder heartbeats and more often. And so I was like, okay, I actually do need to get this checked out. So I went to the UCLA doctors, didn’t like, did all the running with wires on all over me and like the scans and the x rays and everything, [00:08:00] and they were like, thankfully, nothing is physically wrong with you, which is like, okay, thank God. And they’re like, we think this might be linked to anxiety. And I was like, oh, so the call is coming from inside the house. Okay, great. And, uh, which I guess isn’t terribly surprising, but I guess I didn’t know my anxiety was affecting me so much that I could feel it, like I could physically feel it.

Jameela: Well, it’s interesting actually, because I think sometimes when people aren’t registering how anxious they are, it’s because, and I think, I think especially women do this. And then you add on being a minority, but we push and suppress a lot of our feelings and we push it down into our bodies. I think that’s, you know, the whole body keeps the score thing. And so almost all of my uh, emotional problems come out in like kidney problems or stomach issues. Like I very rarely am aware that I’m upset until I get sick because I’m just used to carrying on. And so.

Sasheer: Yeah. Yeah. Our bodies will tell us, which is I guess a [00:09:00] nice thing, but also it’s a confusing moment where you’re like, oh, I did. I, I didn’t know.

Jameela: Sure. Something interesting that like, I keep thinking about and I’ve been talking about a lot recently is this, like this thing I saw Esther Perel say on one of her talks where she was saying that like, sometimes we’re pathologizing a lot of what is wrong with people when actually what they’re having is a very normal reaction to a very abnormal world. And I, I wondered if that resonated with you at all, like, especially given that the anxiety of the last three years is that do you, does your, does your, do your doctors think it’s a pathology of like a general anxiety disorder? Or are you, especially as a black woman in the last few years and then someone going through a pandemic and then someone whose industry has turned upside down on its arsehole, uh, are you also just facing very real and sensible reactions to the world around you?

Sasheer: I think it’s both. I think it’s like I do in general [00:10:00] have anxious reactions to things, but then also, yes, we have been through a massive upheaval. Everyone has, and also, yes, being black and a woman in America, having rights struck in from us, having, having all these things happen, going inward, self analyzing, analyzing the world and my environment. Yeah, of course, it’s going to be a bit anxiety inducing. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that like my palpitations increased during the pandemic. So yeah, I don’t think anyone clearly stated it like that, but I think I can do my own math.

Jameela: Yeah, no, I just, it’s just something I’m thinking about more and more as I’m starting to unpack my own mental health as I’m getting older, where I’m like, very pro medication and stuff. And I’m like, but is all of this something that needs to be medicated or do I also need to shift my environment? Obviously none of us could have done anything about the last few years, but it is just like a thing where I, I wonder if sometimes doctors can be so quick to say, oh, this is what’s wrong with you, rather than us all [00:11:00] taking a step back and going, this is what’s wrong with the fucking world.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Because,

Sasheer: yeah.

Jameela: I just, I just wonder, like, I don’t know. This is something that I’ve been thinking about a lot.

Sasheer: Even the way we consume information, like we, our brains weren’t designed in a way to be able to have so much access to information and like, access to tragedy and hardships. And it’s like, of course, everyone has a low level of anxiety on a day to day basis because we weren’t, I don’t know,

Jameela: Built for this.

Sasheer: The humans were just like, we weren’t built for this. We’re built to go like get food, build homes, take care of a community in front of you.

Jameela: Fight the odd tiger. Occasionally.

Sasheer: Occasional tiger. But that’s normal.

Jameela: A hundred percent. Oh man. And so you, you were saying that you’ve always kind of had to like a hyper analytical brain. Is that something from when you were a child? Do you know why?

Sasheer: I think I’m just like a natural observer and I, and maybe it might be [00:12:00] because I was a military kid so I moved around a bunch and I was very shy and I never liked being the new kid. So I was good at presenting some version of myself that would be able to, like, absorb new friends, but not have them be close enough to me that we would have, like, strong relationships, because I’d be like, I’m going to leave in a year, so why would I bother to invest in these people or this place or anything like that. And so I guess I got really good at like assessing my environment and the people in it and the way they behave and the way I behave. And yeah, I kind of just became like a, an audience member of my life, if that makes sense.

Jameela: And how have you managed to break out of that as an adult? Because then I guess you’re still in an industry where you’re going, you’re moving around a lot and it is, you are like developing close relationships with maybe cast members or fellow comedians and you’re moving away again. Has that been like a, an issue to resolve as an [00:13:00] adult that to, I don’t know, kind of like reset your nervous system because it’s such a formative time in your life being

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Kind of into the military world. Have you been able to now adjust to, okay, you know what? It’s okay. I’m this, I can build this long term relationship now.

Sasheer: Yeah. Yes. Um, therapy definitely helped like giving me exercises to like, you know, reach out to that friend you’re thinking about, or like, like actually do make plans and stick with them cause you don’t have to leave. Like I, I, I moved so much when I moved to New York, I moved to New York in 2009 and I, don’t know how many places I lived in because I just felt antsy. I felt like I was like ready to go. And maybe that’s like, you know, if you, if you feel like you need to change something, change your environment mentality, but then I think I needed to learn, like, I don’t have to just change my environment. I could change something else inward.

Jameela: My mind.

Sasheer: Yeah. I could change my mind. Yeah. Or nothing and just deal with what’s going on. But yeah, I definitely, it took [00:14:00] an active effort on my part to work on being still and stationary and paying attention to the people around me and, and maintaining those connections.

Jameela: Mm hmm. Given how much of a multi hyphenate you are, it kind of makes sense given that you are, you have that kind of, or you had that sort of antsiness and wanting to do things and wanting to keep like moving and, and achieving and stuff. Amongst your amazing comedy career and, and career just as a performer generally, you also work within social justice quite a lot.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: I was wondering how you got into that, why you got into that, what it makes you feel like.

Sasheer: Yeah. The ACLU approached me in 2014. It was like my, the first year I got on SNL. And I think someone from the organization saw me perform and was like, oh, your voice aligns with the work we’re doing in the women’s rights project, which was a huge compliment. And we just created this relationship where I wrote sketches for them and created [00:15:00] them and wrote essays for them and did speeches for them. And it was kind of a nice symbiotic relationship where I could, uh, break things down that they were working on and like a comedic lens. And I think comedy is a really great tool to get people to listen and break down their defensives and absorb information that might scare them or like confuse them or make them feel uncomfortable or uneasy.

And then I get to bring a comedy community to what they’re doing and, and hope that people hear what they’re doing and spread that information and, and learn a little bit more about like the cases they’re working on and the, the things that actually need our attention right now. And it feels good. I think I’ve always, um, wanted to keep some sort of like, I guess, social justice arm to my art and my creativity because I personally like doing that in my life and I feel like if anyone can [00:16:00] watch anything that I’ve done and feel motivated to do something or at least inquisitive to research something, then I feel like that’s like an added bonus to what I’m doing.

Jameela: What are some of the things that you’ve been fighting for of late that you feel like are the most Frustrating, the things that you most want people to pay attention to?

Sasheer: Uh, I would really like more studies, information, policy to be put around the medical field and their misunderstanding or their lack of listening to Black women. Like I, I talk about this in my new special and I tell a story about when I got hit by a car and I got taken to the hospital and I went through this whole journey where people just kept making me do things.

Jameela: What?

Sasheer: Like, um,

Jameela: Like baking?

Sasheer: Cleaning up. Um, no.

Jameela: Can you just [00:17:00] make me breakfast?

Sasheer: Um, like I got there and a nurse came to my bed and was like, what are you in for? And I was like, am I in prison? What is happening? And uh, he was like, like, are you okay? And I was like, no, um, I got hit by a car and he’s like, oh man, that sucks.

Jameela: Sorry. How did you get, can you just tell me how you got hit by this car?

Sasheer: It was like, broad daylight, and I was walking in a crosswalk, and there was a line of cars waiting at the stoplight, so I had to walk in between two cars that were in one lane, and then some guy was driving down all the turning lanes of that road in order to get to the turning lane at the light and didn’t see me coming between two cars and like, clipped me at my knees. I rolled up on the hood, bounced off.

Jameela: Oh my god.

Sasheer: It was a whole thing. I hit my head on a different car in a different lane, because I’m an overachiever.

Jameela: No, I did that.

Sasheer: You did?

Jameela: I managed, yeah, I managed to get hit by one car onto the opposite side of the road and [00:18:00] then get hit again.

Sasheer: Double whammy.

Jameela: Our parents must be so proud.

Sasheer: Yeah. It’s like look at them. Not just one but two.

Jameela: Fucking hell. Okay. So you’re in hospital being grilled about what you’re in for.

Sasheer: Yeah. And then I have never broken a bone, like knock on wood. Um, so I, I was like, I feel like nothing’s broken. I just think I need some ice and some painkillers. And the nurse I was talking to was like, oh, we, we can’t do that because if the doctor comes in and assesses you, they won’t be able to tell like

Jameela: What hurts.

Sasheer: What’s broken on you. Yeah. And what hurts. But I was like, I feel like the x ray will help me with that, but you know what? You’re the expert. I trust you. And then I get to the x ray room and the guy is like, okay, stand right here on this mark because we have to do, they wanted to scan my head because I hit my head and they only had a standing scanner available. And I was like, I don’t think I should be standing. And he was like, no, no, no, it’s fine. Just stand right here. [00:19:00] And so I did. And then I sat back down. I was like, oh, my God, my legs. And he was like, what’s wrong? And I was like, I got hit by a car and he’s like, oh, you probably shouldn’t have been standing.

Jameela: Oh my God. Jesus Christ.

Sasheer: I was like, do you guys not communicate? And then finally the doctor came in and she looked at all my tests and all my scans and she goes, okay, looks like nothing is broken here. You just have some serious bone bruises. And honestly, if we had just gotten you some ice and some painkillers when you first got here, you would have been gone hours ago. And I was like, is this a prank show? Like, what is happening?

Jameela: Are you a doctor?

Sasheer: Am I a doctor? I knew, I knew my diagnosis as soon as I got here. But I have so many stories like that. My family has so many stories like that, and worse, and just the amount of times black women don’t get listened to or, or believed and it’s women in general, but like, there’s like a high death [00:20:00] rate of black women because people are not believing them when they talk about their symptoms.

Jameela: It’s five times worse, no?

Sasheer: I think so.

Jameela: It’s five times higher mortality rate for black women in the United States died during childbirth.

Sasheer: And in 2023, like, it’s not, it’s, it’s still happening because they’re

Jameela: We just lost an olympian who was in her, I think, late twenties or maybe early thirties. And, and I mean, there’s never been a healthier, fitter person on earth. Like there’s,

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: There’s not like a comorbidity there. It’s just, it’s, and you even think of like some of the most famous, like billionaire black women who’ve almost died.

Sasheer: Serena Williams.

Jameela: Exactly. And like, they’ve almost, they’ve had so many complications and so much danger. It’s such a crit, it’s, it’s something that is so baffling, especially as an English person coming into being like, how are we, generally the healthcare system is one of the most terrifying things I think I’ve ever seen in any country that I’ve lived in, but, um, I don’t understand how we can continue to ignore this problem. We know where it [00:21:00] comes from. We know what it is. We know the institution of, you know, of medicine and who was tested on in for, in order to, for us to advance to even know what we know. Um, but the, I, but I can’t imagine the anxiety then of going in, even with heart palpitations, going into a doctor and being like, will I be taken seriously?

Sasheer: Yeah, truly. I mean, I specifically looked for a black woman Entomologist, I think. I can’t remember the exact.

Jameela: I’ll take your word for it. I left school at 16.

Sasheer: Yeah, a heart specialist.

Jameela: Cardiologist.

Sasheer: Something like that. But yeah, someone who specializes in things of the heart.

Jameela: Yeah.

Sasheer: And because I was worried, I didn’t want to deal with someone who just didn’t understand my body or experiences and like, didn’t take me seriously and was just like, Oh, it’s nothing. It’s fine. And so like, thankfully, I did get recommended to, like, the best doctors who could scan me and look at things and, like, I felt like I was taken seriously, but also, it would be nice if I could just go to any doctor and feel [00:22:00] like that and not have to, like, specifically look for someone who looks like me.

Jameela: Well, because even the idea of someone who’s going to understand your body, like, creates the, not from you, obviously, but it creates the idea that your body is different from anyone else’s body.

Sasheer: Totally, yeah.

Jameela: And yet, people in this country or there are people even within the medical field who do look at you as different, who do look at your skin as thicker or do look at your pain tolerance as higher than a white person.

Sasheer: Yeah. Well, it’s also like sometimes people are still taught things like that. Like it’s still like printed in some medical books of like black people have thicker skin or we have a higher pain tolerance, so don’t give them opioids, like, things like that, and,

Jameela: You know, the opioid crisis isn’t, isn’t known to be, uh, something within necessarily the black community as much as others. It’s very, it’s very strange. It’s very strange. And I can’t imagine how scary it is to then be pregnant in this country and wonder where you can get that help. Um, thank you for doing that work.[00:23:00]

One of the things that you’ve spoken about on stage, and I think I’ve seen this clip like 50, 000 times, because it’s always all over TikTok. And speaking of pain, not being taken seriously, especially women’s pain, especially black women’s pain: menstruation.

Sasheer: Yes.

Jameela: You talk a lot about menstruation in a way that I have found very illuminating and has, uh, I mean, it’s made me feel very seen. Um, but it’s also, it’s, I don’t know, you’ve galvanized me to want to fucking talk about how unpleasant my period is to men specifically, uh, to everyone. And I complain more now because of you, and thank you for that. It’s nice to get it out. Yeah. Sorry to everyone else. Um, but would you tell my audience some of the things that you have learned and that you think they should know about periods?

Sasheer: Yeah. Well, period [00:24:00] pain, I mean, I feel like periods in general, we’ve been taught and

Jameela: Mm-Hmm

Sasheer: socialized to keep secret and to hide. And I remember hiding tampons in my sleeves when I go to the bathroom and not telling people what’s going on and having embarrassing moments where I bleed on myself, but no one can know, but I, it’s such a normal, like, common thing and the, like, you’re like always probably surrounded by someone who’s bleeding. You are like always talking to someone who’s bleeding. And the fact that I have to like, have a conversation, be like, how’s the weather, but not be like, I’m a river right now. Like I want to like, just be honest. And I think, I think honestly, the world will be a better place if we’re just like, this is normal. And I think that happens all the time. And also it can, it can be very painful and I should get some days off of work or school.

Jameela: Maybe be given some money.

Sasheer: Or given some money. Yeah. That will be really nice.

Jameela: Some cake.

Sasheer: Some cake, a massage, a spa [00:25:00] day. Everyone should just get a monthly spa day. That would be so nice.

Jameela: It’s so, and it’s so frustrating, isn’t it? Because we’re walking this really, like, difficult line of, you know, we’re talking about the fact that we shouldn’t be discriminated against when it comes to being hired. And then they’re like, well, women get their periods and, you know, women have to have to go off and have babies and then clearly look after that baby themselves according to maternity leave.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Discrimination. But at the same time, we also should be allowed to say that, yes, okay, for one or two days a month, I’m, I’m in excruciating pain and I might have to work from home. And yet, I feel like because we were so, because whenever we expressed heightened emotion we were told, are you on your period?

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: And because we were told, well, I’m more likely to hire a guy than you because he’s not gonna have those days of hormonal upheaval and he’s not gonna be bleeding, he’s not gonna be in pain, so I’m gonna hire him.

Sasheer: Mm-Hmm.

Jameela: It sent my generation, our generation, into a kind of deeper shame [00:26:00] cave of like, now I can’t tell anyone that I’m in pain. Now I can’t miss that day at work. Now I can’t let it on that I’m actually really struggling and I feel like I’m going to faint. And, and I can’t show any emotion. And so we have had to completely hide it. And now I feel like we’re kind of breaking out, but it’s quite a confusing space. It’s like, I want to tell people what I’m going through and I want them to respect it and give me a bit of fucking grace, but at the same time, I’m so scared it’s going to be used against me.

Sasheer: Yeah. I mean, I remember when Hillary was running and people were like, oh, we can’t have a woman president because they’re too hormonal or like, like, what is that telling young girls? Like you, you can’t have a powerful job because you’re, you have hormones? We all have hormones, and

Jameela: Yeah, but testosterone is not at all responsible for violence or aggression.

Sasheer: Oh, oh, of course, not wars, any of that. No, no, no, no, no.

Jameela: It’s just that very [00:27:00] dangerous, known dangerous estrogen that we have to be careful of.

Sasheer: Yes, of course. Of course. We don’t want them to be too calm and introspective.

Jameela: Yeah, yeah. Too empathetic.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Yeah. Where are you at with that emotionally? Because, because it’s just something that I feel like, I don’t know, like it’s a, it’s an awkward thing even to discuss, but how do you walk that line of finding a way to unashamedly talk about it, but also deal with the fear of it being used against you? And it’s a sad question, but it is a real question.

Sasheer: Yeah, I guess I just talk about it. I, I don’t know if I, I mean, I think I’m in a lucky position where, uh, you know, I’m in the arts, so like, I don’t think people are gonna be like, ooh, she’s being too inappropriate unless I am being inappropriate, but

Jameela: No, sometimes it helps. I used to tell Mike Schur that like, can we schedule a crying scene around my period? Cause I was like, I’ll get there faster. So I was like, if you tell me when we need these big arcs, I was like, I can tell you when I’ll get there [00:28:00] faster. And it’s just, it’s very true. That’s literally what I said to him.

Sasheer: I mean, it’s also, it’s really smart.

Jameela: It also means I’m a bad actor that I need to be on my period to cry, but I think it’s very helpful. We had Maisie Hill on this podcast, who’s this amazing woman, she’s written this book called Period Power, and she talks about the fact that every single week of your cycle, you have a different kind of strength that comes up in you. So there’ll be a week where you need to be restful, and maybe that’s a better time to be creative. And then the following week, you’re actually very task based. Your mind is perfect for doing tasks and getting shit done. And you’re, you have hyper focus and then the week after that it’s a different thing. And so she’s all about scheduling your life around your monthly cycle so that you work towards your strengths to the point where, like a fucking legend, I couldn’t book her on this fucking podcast for like six months because she only does interviews on that like week of the sharpest brain that she has.

Sasheer: Woah.

Jameela: So she’s, [00:29:00] it’s really hard to get her on anything, but I was also like, that’s a self preservation queen. That is someone who is working to the peak of her bodily advantage. Um, I highly recommend that book if you haven’t read it. It’s called Period Power.

Sasheer: Yeah I want to read it now. That sounds so good.

Jameela: Um, so the viral clip that you, where you talk about periods is you explain the pain of period cramps. Um, will you, will you tell people what it’s supposed to feel like now?

Sasheer: Um, I mean, I read some articles that were saying like the, the pain that women experience when they’re on a period period is equivalent to the pain you feel when you have a heart attack. So it’s like, I’m feeling that once a week, every month, and just going to work. Just like, going to work, saying hi, getting groceries while I’m continuously having a heart attack, like actively having a pussy heart attack.

Jameela: Hahaha! [00:30:00] Oh my god!

Sasheer: We should be given a break. We should be like, I need a day. I need a day or two.

Jameela: I literally faint at least once a month from the pain of my period, the pain and like just the lack of like iron or something in my system. I actually pass out at least, and it didn’t used to be bad but it’s getting worse as I’m getting older suddenly and that means I’m nearing the end, uh, not of life, uh, just of periods I hope. Um, but I’m like bring on the menopause, bring on the menopause, I can’t fucking wait to no longer have to deal with this shit, um.

Sasheer: Yeah, but then that’s also like a whole other bag of new new tricks for your body.

Jameela: Mm hmm. I’ll figure it out. Like Indian people, we food our way through that sort of thing. I’m gonna turmeric my way out of the menopause.

Sasheer: Haha. I love that.

Jameela: No, I’m going, I’m going to my home country to deal with that shit. I’m not dealing with this American drug system.

Sasheer: Well, I do love like like rediscovering my body [00:31:00] like still. I was on birth control since I was 16, and it was just a normal thing because I had really heavy periods, so they were like, oh, a way to deal with that, birth control, which can be, but there was really no talk of other options or like analyzing my diet, my health, my routine, any of that. It was like immediate pill. And I was on it for years until my 20s, then I got an IUD, then I got another one, and it wasn’t until two years ago when I got off of everything. I was like, my body keeps changing and I just can’t, I’ve never actually known what my body could do, especially in adulthood, on its own. And I, you know, I had fibroids, I had all this other pain that I didn’t know what was happening. I didn’t know what was link to link to what. So I just stopped everything. And then my period was regular. The pain had decreased. My skin cleared up. Like everything just [00:32:00] felt like it was running and I was like, oh my God, and I’m not gonna say that’s for everybody, but I’m like thankful that I tried because I didn’t know my body could work like this. I didn’t know my body could like take care of itself like that. I really thought I needed help. I really thought that I needed to just have other hormones pumping through me, or other chemicals pumping through me in order to make my body work like a body, or make my reproductive system work like it’s supposed to, quote unquote. But once I let it do its thing, it really did do its thing. And I’m glad to, like, keep doing that.

Jameela: Yeah, I think it’s really important. Did you notice any kind of emotional or, like, personality changes after coming off?

Sasheer: Um, hmm. That is a really good question. I do feel, I was dating someone who did say I can notice a change. Like, I think maybe like a more self assuredness or like a more relaxed, like, [00:33:00] chill state, which, I have no idea what that is, but there was something.

Jameela: It’s interesting because I’ve, I’ve spoken to people before on and off this podcast who talked to me about the fact that, you know, we don’t as a society talk enough about how hormones are massively linked to our personalities and they are formative for our personalities. And so when, when people go on birth control, uh, for whatever reason they go on the birth control at a young age, it can kind of inform your personality. And so to come off as a grown woman,

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: means a kind of like really new fresh slate to kind of rediscover yourself. And I just thought that was really, I think it’s really interesting. I’ve never taken birth control like that, so

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Unfortunately, my personality is just my fault, which is a hard pill to swallow. This has all been me. Um, but, you know.

Sasheer: I like the way that, uh, you phrased [00:34:00] that. I do think it is like, it feels like a new adolescence or like a rediscovering of me. Like I, I’d shade my head pretty quickly after. Not, not like immediately, but like, I don’t know, something about shedding felt really good to me at that moment.

And I, you know, I had shaved my head before in college, but like I had an afro and different styles and braids and twists and stuff like that, which I loved. But you know, I’ve had friends be like, I feel like I can see you more like I can see you more because your hair is gone and something else has changed and I’m like, Yeah, I think the birth control, coming off of it really was the impetus for a lot of different, like, me discovering me things.

Jameela: It’s fascinating when we stop, when we stop kind of interfering, and obviously interference can be incredibly important and, and life changing for some people. And that’s why medicine is great and important, but it is fascinating what happens when we learn how to self regulate in alternative ways and just find out what the body is.[00:35:00]

I’m really happy to hear that you feel self assured. I think you should feel that way. I want everyone to feel that way. But I know that it’s also kind of been a journey for you because another one of the things that you’ve spoken about a lot is your experience as a darker skinned black woman and the, the way that you’ve tried to push forth the kind of positivity around the way that you look around the skin, around the body, especially of a black woman.

Sasheer: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s something that black people, I think, learn at a very young age, like in different ways. I remember my mom saying things like, you don’t want to be outside too long because you wont to get dark or like, yeah, it’s, it’s, or, or just people pointing it out at school or noticing these people who are paler or lighter getting more opportunities than me or other people I know. And I do feel like we’re [00:36:00] in a time where in some certain areas dark skin is being celebrated, which is wonderful and beautiful, and I just want to see more of that because it’s reality. Like, we have a vibrant scope of colors in the world, but that’s not always what we see on screen, or who we talk about in the media, but those people are here. We want to see them and we want to feel represented.

Jameela: Yeah, I feel like Issa did so much for within media changing the way that people who aren’t black look at lighting black skin.

Sasheer: Yeah, definitely.

Jameela: I thought that was fucking massive and amazing. And I had never seen dark skin look like that on television quite in that way, where everyone was just fucking glowing. And the, the warmth of brown and black skin just read like just resonated through the screen. And the team that she had, like the cinematographers and the lighters, like the first people who really paid fucking [00:37:00] attention to that. And it set a new bar where now, when you see people of color, like I still can’t, I still get the lighting, the same lighting that white people get, so I look very washed out and a lot of people get surprised when they meet me in person and find out that I’m brown skinned or like people think that I was bleaching my skin in The Good Place because I look so fair. But sometimes, and I think they did make more of an effort than most shows, but sometimes it was tricky to like put me and Kristen Bell in the same shot. You know what I mean?

Sasheer: Yeah, I’ve definitely been there.

Jameela: Yeah, exactly. Um, but it’s a, it’s a tricky one. And after Insecure, I just feel like there was no going back. And now everyone, when they’re giving, like all my friends who are selling shows, uh, especially the ones who are black women are now like setting like Insecure as their bar for what they expect dark skin to look like. And that’s been really cool.

Sasheer: Yeah. And thankfully other people are calling it out too. I remember, uh, I feel like recently there was some article, I don’t know what the article was about, but I remember they called out, I think it was [00:38:00] Stranger Things or something for like, not lighting all the characters very well, but people will call you out now. People will be like, I can’t see that person.

Jameela: Really, I haven’t noticed. Haha! And is like, is is your journey with your hair something that you also like is shaving your hair like a kind of part of that kind of embrace of being a black woman?

Sasheer: I think so.

Jameela: Do you feel like you’re just hot and just sick of fucking hair?

Sasheer: That too. For years, every summer.

Jameela: So many hours of our lives. Jesus Christ.

Sasheer: Yeah, it’s nice to just like wake up and be like, done. I love that. But yes, I mean, there’s like. I have been thankful or grateful for being on shows, uh, where they do have a team, a hair and makeup team that understands black skin or black hair, but I’ve also been in situations where no one did. And, uh, they, I walk in and they’re like, oh, your hair looks great. And I’m like, as is? Like, you [00:39:00] don’t even want to touch it. You don’t want to try, but because they’re scared or they have no expertise in it. And it’s like, sad and kind of embarrassing because it’s like, don’t you want to hire the best? Like, don’t you want to hire the people who know how to do everyone’s hair? Or at least if they don’t, hire someone who can at least do this hair and someone who can do this hair and not just be like blanket statement, like this person can probably do everyone’s hair in a way. Um, or, you know, I’ve seen videos of actresses doing their own hair at work. And I’m like, I don’t want to do that at all. That’s not why I was hired.

Jameela: We go to work at four o’clock in the fucking morning.

Sasheer: Truly. And now I have to do

Jameela: Our hairstylists go at three, but still like, at least they’re trained. They know what to do. They’ve got that upper arm strength. I don’t have any upper arm strength.

Sasheer: Yeah, it was like you got to do your own hair and then perform and keep working the whole day. No, I can’t.

Jameela: No.

Sasheer: I don’t. I don’t have patience for that.

Jameela: But I also meant, especially like [00:40:00] given the commentary around hair after the Academy Awards last year, like I, I, quite a lot of my friends who are black women have shaved their heads in the kind of just like, I’m not going to be tied to this one thing or this one stereotype or the way that black women are categorized by the shittest part of society as like in some way masculine and so therefore a lot of my friends felt this pressure their whole lives like hyper feminized, hyper feminized and have the longest hair and the softest hair or whatever. It’s been this amazing moment of liberty that I’m noticing all around people just going no. I like, I know my beauty. My beauty will not be, my femininity or my, like, whatever will not be dictated by another person. I’m embracing what this is and what this looks like. And I think that’s fucking great.

Sasheer: Yeah, it does feel like an embrace. I do, when I shaved my head in college, like, it was, uh, I was transitioning from having relaxed, permed hair for most of my life. to shaving it and now starting my natural journey. [00:41:00] And I felt like a boy. And I also had a brother who looks very much like me and also had a shaved head and was the same height as me at the time, who people were like, are you guys twins? And I was like, I’m a woman, and he’s in fifth grade. Um, and so then I started wearing earrings, eyeliner, dresses, all this stuff that I probably wouldn’t have done. But I was trying to like, femme my appearance because I wanted to counterbalance the shaved head. And this time around, and I’m much older, and just shaved my head not because I’m on a natural journey, but just because I wanted to shave it. I have no inclination to do anything to like offset my shaved head. I’m just like, it is, this is my head and I love it. And this is how I look. And I don’t actually care how other people perceive it or absorb it or think what the, whatever they think about me. I, I love it. And it’s a much different place to [00:42:00] be than where I was when I was 19.

Jameela: Yeah, a hundred percent. And also times are changing and we are uh, embracing so many more different types of looks and more, and also like androgyny has become something that is so much more beautiful and our perception of what is and what isn’t feminine or masculine is completely shifting, and so it’s a really fun time to be in your 30s. I feel like this is a really great time that as we are internally embracing ourselves and it feels like you are on that journey of, or, I mean, you’re, I’m not going to say you’re getting to the end of it, I don’t fucking know you, but like, it feels like you are very, like, firmly on that journey of really coming to, like, grips with yourself and coming into your own. And it’s, this is a wonderful and evolved, as shit as the world is right now, it’s also in many ways, like, the most evolved time of my, of my life and what I’m witnessing on the outside.

Sasheer: Yeah, that’s what I feel.

Jameela: In many ways I feel terrified for teenagers, but I’m also like, oh, it’s so cool that you have so many more options.

Sasheer: Oh, absolutely. And, and it feels like they just have more [00:43:00] tools, like, like they, they are, they have access to more information. It feels like they already are going through the stuff I’m going through currently, like they’re already like assessing their personhood and knowing

Jameela: Oh, they would be listening to us talking right now and think we’re so fucking primitive.

Sasheer: Oh my god, yes.

Jameela: Do you know what I mean? They already, they don’t have shame around their periods. They’re not hiding. They’re wearing their tampons on fucking necklaces or like nipple tassels and fucking tampons.

Sasheer: Truly.

Jameela: It’s completely different. Oh my god, there was that other thing you were talking about with, when it comes to tampons of tampon commercials, how offensive they are.

Sasheer: Yeah, they really are like, well, first of all, just like the blue liquid and like making it like making it so removed from our actual bodies and periods.

Jameela: It never even occurred to me. It never occurred to me as a kid. I was just like, that’s I just totally accepted that.

Sasheer: I was like, I guess blue liquid is the equivalent of the blood coming out of me.

And then, [00:44:00] yeah, all the commercials are just like, she’s playing soccer. She’s riding a horse. She’s surfing. She can do everything on her period. And I’m like, that’s so not what I want to do when I’m on my period. I want to sleep. I want to eat. I want people to leave me alone.

Jameela: Who the fuck is riding a horse?

Sasheer: Who’s riding a horse on their period? And I guess you can. Sure. That’s your, that’s what you feel comfortable doing that, amazing.

Jameela: The only thing that’s getting in your way is the very, very thin blue liquid.

Sasheer: Yes.

Jameela: Coming from straight out of your heart. It doesn’t come out of your vagina, it just like weeps slowly, gently from your nipple.

Sasheer: Yes.

Jameela: Um, oh my God.

Sasheer: A whisper of blue.

Jameela: I think I May Destroy You was the first time I ever saw someone talk about a blood clot on television ever.

Sasheer: Yeah. Yeah.

Jameela: That was such a massive moment. I remember like, I gasped. I got shy and then I had to pause it because I didn’t, I don’t even know what I was looking at. I was like, this is insane. This is amazing.

Sasheer: Yeah, it is [00:45:00] amazing. Yeah.

Jameela: I’m still, I’m still coming out of my, I’m still coming out of my period shame. I think I’m still like, kind of learning to deal with these sorts of things. Like I, uh, but I have definitely come to a much better place where now I just want to shout about it all the time and just like, let people know that I am a legend for even showing up, so don’t fucking mess with me right now.

Sasheer: Truly. Yes, you should be thanking me and massaging my shoulders right now.

Jameela: While I ride my horse. Fucking obscene.

So, okay, so before I let you go, like, when you are thinking of you know, these younger generations who are growing up and we are kind of their primitive founding mothers. Uh, I will mostly speak for myself there. Um, but what are some of the things that you are concerned for and like most hope that they know?

Sasheer: I hope that they know that [00:46:00] mistakes are meant to be made, and it really just adds to your life experience. I wish someone told me that. I feel like I was so wrapped up and being like perfect or the perfect student or doing everything correct or right? And so I hope that they know like mistakes that you make will happen, mistakes that your generation will make will happen. These mistakes that like the system makes will happen, and Life will still be going like you can still live life and it’ll be fine.

Jameela: How do you impress that upon a generation who are growing up on social media where that is the exact opposite of the rhetoric?

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Of no one can make a mistake, and if you do, it’ll be a tattoo and a stain across your name.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: Because, which isn’t even true necessarily, but it, it is the, the current feeling of like, I think, especially once we were in the pandemic and at home all the time and, [00:47:00] and we had more time on our hands to really pay attention to piling on to certain things, certain things that were good and helpful and certain things that maybe weren’t the best message for young people. How do they navigate that?

Sasheer: I don’t know. I have no idea.

Jameela: I mean, as an expert, I expected you to have the correct answer about algorithms and psychological.

Sasheer: I wish I did. I don’t know. I get scared of social media and like how much, how much effect it can have on trending topics in the news and making or breaking people. And like, if I didn’t have to promote the stuff I’m doing, I wouldn’t be on it. And I do think there, it seems like there are younger people who are, uh, the where the pendulum swinging the other direction where they’re getting dumb phones, quote unquote, where they’re getting phones that don’t even have the internet or they don’t, they’re flip phones.

Jameela: My boyfriend just got one of those.

Sasheer: Oh yeah.

Jameela: Cause he’s sick of social media and like sick of the way that his thumb will automatically go to it without actually his brain’s consent.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Jameela: He’s like, it’s like a muscle [00:48:00] memory and he doesn’t like that. He doesn’t like feeling swayed by something.

Sasheer: Yeah. I don’t like that either. And I hope that the younger generation is like going more that way where they’re like, oh, you know what? I’ve seen what this can do to people. This is not good for my mental health and

Jameela: Yeah.

Sasheer: They’re more attuned to talking about mental health, so I’m going to take care of mine.

Jameela: One thing that I think we can do when it comes to the mistakes of people, especially women, especially women of color, is I think as public figures to make sure that we share our mistakes, which is a raw thing to do because then people can sometimes weaponize it against you or pile on to you. But that has been my personal journey is just being like, I’m deeply fallible and very annoying. I’m really behind. I’m so behind because I was so mentally ill for such a long time that I really didn’t know that up, you know, it wasn’t down. And so I’m so late to the party of, of understanding truly anything about myself or the world. And so I’m just trying to figure it out and I’m [00:49:00] trying to do it as transparently as possible because I feel like that’s the only way we’re going to be able to cut through the, like, moral perfectionism panic of this generation. And I think because you’re a stand up, like, stand up comedians are inclined, and you’ve also got, like, a very personal, uh, podcast with Nicole, like, it’s like, because of your job, I guess, sharing about your most vulnerable or embarrassing or whatever things that you have as part of your art form. It’s great that people have that, but I do think that that’s the only way. And, and even if you’re not a famous person with a big platform leading by example of showing your children your mistakes or showing your students your mistakes or your siblings, like opening up about these things and expressing them. You can have remorse, but you don’t have to have shame.

Sasheer: Yeah. I think it’s huge.

Jameela: And so I think that’s a really important subject that I feel like very, very passionately about. And I, I like that about your work is just how humane and human it is. And I think that’s really important. [00:50:00] Anything else you want the young generation to know? They’re all listening.

Sasheer: They’re all listening right now. Simultaneously. They’re in a circle. Well, actually, what you just said reminded me of, um, uh, a bit that I did on stage and is in the special where I, I talk about the first time I masturbate. And, and how I used the handle of a lint roller and, uh, you know, it didn’t feel good. She was trying. And then I go, I opened the floor to the audience and I’m like, does anyone else want to share something that they have used? And I love doing that. I loved doing that part of the show because it felt like such a surprising, like, kinetic moment in the audience where they were all like, wait, I can just say this or like, I never really talked about this with anybody. Like, I thought it was weird or gross or [00:51:00] like, like, icky that I even tried to like, pleasure myself at one point. And I can just say it out loud to the room? And, you know, the answers I got were, like, fun and funny. People said cucumbers or bananas or teddy bears or whatever. Um, but it was, like, the more people shouted things out, the more comfortable they felt, like, actually, like, having a group discussion about this.

Jameela: Yeah, could you feel the energy in the room building as, like, all the people were resonating with all of these different?

Sasheer: Yeah, because they’re like, oh, I thought about it! A bookmark! And I’m like, yes, let’s talk about it! And it’s like

Jameela: Oh my god, a bookmark.

Sasheer: It’s like, oh, we know how you’re studying. And it’s nice to just have people feel like, oh, I’m not weird because so and so also did that thing.

Jameela: Or like, how is it possible with 9 billion people that most of us aren’t doing all the same weird shit?

Sasheer: Oh, no, for sure. But I think just even knowing that some weird shit is happening somewhere makes you feel a little bit better. [00:52:00]

Jameela: Yeah, that is a, I feel like that’s part of something that you stand for is, is not just women but people unashamedly experiencing and seeking out pleasure. It’s so weird. I was so ashamed of the idea of all of that, of pleasure, of, I was too afraid to even have an orgasm until I was like 23 or 24. I would stop myself if I felt the feeling coming along during sex because I just felt like somehow ashamed of it. It’s like, wow, how has this happened? It’s because I just haven’t seen it. I think the sex positivity on camera, while it still needs, we still have some work to do there, uh, has definitely helped. But it’s, um, it’s great that women are being able to talk about these things. I mean, I advertised a vibrator on Instagram. And I remember like at first getting like shy about when I first got approached to do it and then thinking, what the fuck is going on? I’m 37 fucking show, give people the free vibrators. Give it to them now.

Sasheer: It’s really a [00:53:00] community service, honestly.

Jameela: It really is, honestly. Of all my activism, I think that was the one that made the biggest impact. Oh my god. Well, listen, thank you for giving me your time and, uh, thank you for the work that you do to destigmatize women’s issues. I so appreciate you. Before you go, will you tell me, what do you weigh?

Sasheer: I weigh my creativity and work. I really would like people to see the things that I create and think, oh, that aligns with her values. Or I feel connected to this because I can tell she’s being authentic when she makes x, y, and z.

Jameela: Lovely. Thank you so much for coming.

Sasheer: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Jameela: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh With Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan, and Kimmie Gregory. [00:54:00] It is edited by Andrew Carson, and the beautiful music you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything. Check it out! You can get a free month of Stitcher Premium by going to stitcher.com/ premium and using the promo code iweigh. Lastly, over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 1-818-660-5543 or email us what you weigh at iweighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners.

Listener: I weigh the belief that the status quo is what fucks up life for everyone and everything. And I believe we should fight it at every turn, every chance we get. [00:55:00] The easiness in which life pulls you into what someone like you is supposed to do, what we’re supposed to dream about, what we’re supposed to look like, that stuff is decided from birth by looking at your body by someone who doesn’t know anything about your personality. It might even be decided before you were born, before you were even conceived by the color of your skin, the location, how influential your parents are. Our lives are not a free path that you control. I believe that defying the status quo should be the norm. Only when that is the case, we will truly be free and choose our lives freely, look the way we want to look, have enormous amounts of creativity in our lives. Can you imagine what the world would be like if that was the case? I believe that [00:56:00] everyone who feels they don’t fit in, the moment they start to stand up for themselves, and no longer allow themselves to be made small, the world will change. Not just for them personally. The entire world will change if the people who feel the world isn’t made for them stop buying into that and start living their best creative lives the way they want to. The world will change.