EP. 205 — Unfiltered: AMA with Grace Campbell

Jameela Intro Hello and welcome to another special Ask Me Anything episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, where I am joined by a wonderful guest to help me answer your questions. This week we have the return of Grace Campbell. You wanted her back, and so I delivered. I texted and I begged and she came, and she came with the goods. It was just, again, so refreshing and so relatable, just like last time, and I think she gives really sound advice. She’s a very introspective person, and someone has been really helpful to me as a friend, someone who I turn to. And so therefore the first time I brought her on was because if it’s someone that I go to for advice, surely she would be amazing to help me give advice to other people. And this was just a very intimate, we really covered a lot of ground in this very intimate and upfront, very candid, and loving episode. I think you get a good insight into my friendship with Grace, but also our previous relationships not only with other people, but also with ourselves. And and your questions were fucking fantastic, so thank you so much to all of you and to Grace’s Instagram audience for sending those in. We covered as many as we could in as much depth as we could, and it was just a massive laugh. It’s just like a warm hug these episodes, and I love doing them so much. I adore Grace Campbell. She is going to be talking about her tour in this episode briefly. Go and see it. Follow everything she does. Follow her online. She’s the internet’s best friend. So this is Ask Me Anything with Jameela Jamil and Grace Campbell.

Jameela Grace Campbell back by popular fuckin demand. Welcome back to I Weigh. How are you?

Grace I am great. I’m so much happier for seeing your face via a screen.

Jameela Likewise. I miss you so much. And my audience missed you. And they said how much they enjoyed the last time we did an Ask Me Anything, and they asked for us to return together. I actually think they’d prefer that you were here every week, and they’re just too nice to say that, but at least we can give them this.

Grace That was a really fun day. And I was messaging Erin, who runs I Weigh with you today like all some of the questions, and the last message from her was that video from when we did it when I wanted to eat my crisps.

Jameela Yeah for anyone who hasn’t, who hasn’t heard that episode, and I highly recommend because it’s an amazing listen, but we were coming towards the end of the episode and I’m delivering this, like, very impassioned monologue, you know, about self-worth and how to empower oneself. And I was just like, so in it and saying something that was just like, so deeply felt to me. And I finished the sentence, and Grace just has this completely blank look on her face and then just goes, “Would it be alright if I eat the crisps that are in my bag now?”

Grace Hahaha!

Jameela That’s all she responded.

Grace You were looking at me so sincerely.

Jameela I know.

Grace I’m thinking, what is she talking about?

Jameela I’ve never wanted to throw something at you more. Hahaha! That was so funny. Your hanger just took over.

Grace It was crazy. It was crazy.

Jameela Have you eaten properly this time? Are we

Grace Yes, I have.

Jameela Are you, are you in the room with us?

Grace I’m stocked. I’m well stocked right now. Yeah. I had a massive lunch, so we’re all good.

Jameela Okay, great. Well, this time round, we also asked your own followers for some questions that they’ve been wanting to ask you. And so I have those questions here today, but before we get into them, you have a big tour coming up, and I want everyone to know about it.

Grace Well, exactly. So I did my first preview for the show last week, which Becks one of your best, who, one of your best friends came to and was very, very, very kind about it.

Jameela Yep. She texted me, said it was amazing.

Grace I’m I’m genuinely, and I say this like I haven’t been excited about my other shows, but I don’t think I’ve ever written something that I think’s going to be as amazing as this, like, it’s hard to tell right now cause it’s such a work in progress. But the show’s called “Grace Campbell’s On Heat,” and I started at the Edinburgh Fringe, and then I take it around the UK and some places in Europe and then hopefully to America, so that’s later on in the year. Starts in August and it’s October, November, December, and then I’ll come to America in 2025 with it, but I’m really excited. I think it’s going to be amazing.

Jameela I also just, I’m so obsessed with the fact that I never get to, I rarely get to hear women say, “I’ve done something,” and I think it’s amazing and

Grace I haven’t even done it. Haha!

Jameela I know, I know, I know, but you’re making something and you think it’s going to be amazing. And that’s the sort of like positivity that the fact that a woman, and never mind a British woman, dares to say out loud is so deeply refreshing and deeply important because there are times when we do make something that we’re like, “I think this is fucking great,” and this weird social contract that we’re not supposed to say it, that we’re not supposed to wish it into existence, that we’re not supposed to back ourselves and cheerlead ourselves.

Grace Well, also, why wouldn’t you think it’s amazing if you’re making it?

Jameela Yeah, why you do it? Yeah, exactly.

Grace Yeah. Why, why are you doing it? Why are you committing to it if you don’t think it’s the most amazing thing?

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Cause you have to then sell it to people. You have to like, promote, it’s like any kind of like work.

Jameela It’s also

Grace You have to then pitch it.

Jameela Yeah. It’s also this thing is like the fact that it’s all right if you think it’s amazing and and you’re not dictating that everyone else will as well, you hope that other people will see it the same way that you do. But you’re allowed, like we have to give ourselves permission to be like, “Yeah, I like it.” And other people liking it or not liking it shouldn’t actually have an impact on whether or not I like it, and I think it’s amazing. This idea that we don’t have permission to think something’s good until everyone else says it is, is fucking bullshit.

Grace Yes, exactly. And that thing you posted yesterday about that thing of how do I not care what people think of me, is something that I’ve, you know, gotten so much better at since being friends with you. But when I say I think this show is amazing, I don’t think everyone is going to like this show. I really think a lot of men, I think it will get reviewed like scathingly by men, to be honest. And that’s fine because that’s, I’m at a point in my life now where I’m at total acceptance with that because they’re not the people that I’m trying to please with it. And so I don’t think everyone’s going to think it’s amazing. And I think some people are going to think it’s not real comedy as well, but that’s fine, because I think it’s going to be amazing, you know what I mean?

Jameela Great, and I’m really excited for you and I’m I’m really, I know what this show’s about and I can’t wait for people to see it, so where can they find tickets?

Grace On my website disgracecampbell.com. And yeah.

Jameela You said disgrace, disgracecampbell?

Grace Disgracecampbell.com. Yeah.

Jameela Perfect.

Grace The way you said it sounded like you were speaking Jamaican.

Jameela Hahaha! Okay, so now we’re jumping in. First question for this Ask Me Anything episode is. Oh my God. How do you know you’re dating a narcissist?

Grace Well. Okay, well, I think we need to answer this question together because you’ve helped me a lot understand, like I, I realized recently that I was, like, seeing a narcissist, but I didn’t really know what a narcissist was before this person. And then now I’ve been looking back on so many past relationships and I’m like loads of narcissists. Like, I’ve dated a lot of narcissists. I think it’s hard because when you start seeing someone, they are showing you a version of themselves, and so sometimes you don’t see these sides of them for a while, which is the problem. In my situation, I saw this really early on, which was a good thing. But a true narcissist, I guess, is like lack of empathy and compassion and sort of making everything that’s happening back to how it’s affecting them and not affecting you.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace So that’s that is my understanding.

Jameela Having dated one as well, I feel as though, I feel as if there’s, you know, when you just get a bit sort of, I don’t know, whatever the dickmatized or clitmatized, right? You know, like when you’re really into someone, you can’t stop thinking about them, so maybe it’s harder to notice that they can’t stop thinking about themselves because you’re just like, “Oh my God, we both just can’t stop thinking about you,” because we have so much in common. Haha!

Grace Haha! That’s so true.

Jameela I’m also obsessed with your pleasure. And so, and so, you know, I feel as though so much but especially I think if you’re socialized as a woman, like, so much of your training is to just give and give and give and and project, nurture, and care on someone that it takes a while before we realize that “Huh.” Even if you’re not dating a narcissist, but just like that doesn’t seem to be being returned. It takes a minute to recognize that because you’re just caught up in the fever. We had a Dr. Ramani, on this podcast who’s like an expert on narcissism, and it’s an amazing episode on how to spot one because we, you know, we have this very like sort of basic surface level idea of what a narcissist is as if they’re like really vain and always looking themselves in the mirror and always very, you know, it’s very obvious and outward. It’s often not, it’s very insidious. And and we also mistake people who do post about themselves a lot or who are very concerned with themselves as narcissists, and often they’re not. They’re just highly self-conscious and vain and insecure. A narcissist is, as Grace said, someone who is fundamentally lacking in the ability to put themselves in your shoes and refusing to put themselves in your shoes because there’s a lot to gain in life as a narcissist, even though people think you’re an asshole, you do tend to get more of what you want than someone who’s not going to put themselves first, so therefore, why would they stop?

Grace Are people born narcissists?

Jameela No, so traditionally

Grace I need to listen to this podcast.

Jameela Yeah, so traditionally, yeah, it’s great to know that you don’t listen to my podcast, Grace. Thanks so much. Haha!

Grace No, I do actually. I listen to a lot of episodes of your podcast.

Jameela I don’t care. So

Grace I’m busy.

Jameela Yeah, so okay, so I mean, there are multiple ways that I think a narcissist can be formed. I don’t believe anyone’s ever born a narcissist, but one of the pipelines that we understand to be for narcissism is a child who doesn’t receive something that they need, you know, a vital type of attention from one or both parents who then has to learn how to self-regulate. And after enough time of self regulating, you become so accustomed to looking out for yourself and  self-regulating for yourself that you can start to become a narcissist. You become completely navelgazing and self-obsessed, and that will then just only continue to progress if not challenged. If you don’t meet a partner or have children or do something that’s going to, like encourage you away from those behaviors. I don’t think there’s a cure for narcissism, but there is a way to override the narcissistic urges, especially if caught early enough. But for the people who are left and enabled and enabled and enabled, that can then become like malignant narcissism, which is, you know, when people start to like, not only try and control themselves, but also control the people around them. And then, you know, further beyond that pipeline can become like psychopathy, so, you know, depending on whether or not people believe that psychopathy is real. So it’s definitely something that comes from having to, from quite a sad place of having to self-regulate and look out for yourself all the time. And and looking at it like that makes me feel more compassionate, but also makes me recognize that someone who’s severely narcissistic isn’t going to change, and so unless you’re really willing to be able to put up with the reality of that, it’s better to extract yourself.

Grace Yeah. Yeah, and I think probably there are people who are better at putting up with that than others.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace And I am not one of those people.

Jameela 100%.

Grace Because I have so many insecurities, and I think dating a narcissist is just such, it’s a terrible combination for me. Because it makes me question like everything about myself and also makes me second guess, like if any of my emotions are real.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Because someone’s making me feel like they don’t matter.

Jameela And you can’t defend yourself because then your defense is seen as the attack. It’s framed as the attack, which could be really upsetting. So I would say, if you want to know if someone’s a narcissist, listen to my podcast episode with Dr. Ramani and follow her online because she’s really clever at helping you understand all the different types of narcissists and what to do. Okay, so next up, “I’m 32 and I’ve never been in a real relationship. Is there something wrong with me?”

Grace That makes me really upset that people feel that way. Okay, so first of all, if you want to be in a relationship and if that’s what you’re seeking, you can think of it in that sense of you you know you want that, so you know what you’re looking for and maybe you need to figure out why it is that it hasn’t happened. Like, maybe you have been afraid of, like, opening up to people in the past, and that’s completely understandable, but maybe there’s something in your life that you haven’t, like, dealt with, and maybe it’s worth figuring out. But also, there is no shame in not having been in a relationship. I used to have loads of shame because I didn’t really get into my first, like, long term relationship till like I was like 24 and I had so much shame about that because I was like, “What is wrong with me? I’m not normal.” I didn’t feel like I was like fitting in with everyone else. And then as soon as you get into a relationship, you’re like, “Oh, wow, I was, was I really stressing out about this? This is so stressful. Like, get me out of here, like get me back. Get me back to the era when I did not know what this felt like.”

Jameela Constant compromise.

Grace Yes, exactly.

Jameela Constant.

Grace Constant compromise.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Constantly having to think about someone else.

Jameela Yeah. I think it’s important to not frame it as what’s wrong with me. It’s just like I haven’t been in a relationship till 32. Why do I think that is? Is it about my job? Do I have antisocial hours? Do I, you know, spend more time online than outside in the real world? Online dating is fucking horrific and so intense sometimes because it’s really, you don’t get a sense of someone’s pheromones and a sense of that connection, which I think is really important to be able to have for some people to make that swifter. You know, are you isolated in where you live? You know, for example, dating in London seems to be a lot easier than dating somewhere like Los Angeles because everyone drives everywhere so there’s no one walking down the street. It’s a very kind of isolated, strange, individualistic place. So it could be a myriad of factors. And I think it’s great that you’re looking into the why. And I do think it’s very important that you don’t lead with a from a place of, as Grace is kind of saying of like self-blame or shame.

Grace Yeah because there is no shame about it. I think that that’s the thing that makes me upset is thinking that there’s something wrong with you because of that. There’s absolutely no shame about it. And I hate that we live in a world where people are, it’s even now like, I’m single at the moment and I can’t stand, and I don’t know why it’s getting to me more than it does like other periods of being single, but wherever I go, people ask me, like if I’m dating anyone or like how my love life’s going. Maybe it’s because I talk about this stuff so much, and people are just nosy and they want to like, go and tell people like, what’s what is going on in my love life because I guess I allude to stuff, but it makes me feel kind of attacked. It’s weird. It’s like I’m like, “Why are you asking me that?”

Jameela Well, it’s cause so much of a woman’s worth is decided upon that.

Grace Well, exactly, and that’s why this person feels this way because they’ve been made to feel like their worth is based on whether or not they’ve been in a relationship. It’s so stupid. Like your worth is based on so many other things. And if anyone does make you feel bad about that, like, absolutely put them in the bin.

Jameela 100%. And also like, I’ve been in a few relationships before my relationship with James, and they all made me really unhappy. So great, I’ve got the medal of having been in relationships, but they didn’t, you know, they caused me so much trauma and grief and stress and self-worth like wobbles. And so, you know, there is no great benefit just to being in a relationship. If you were like, I’m 32 and I never been in a happy relationship, that to me would be more worrying than I’ve just never been in a relationship. This idea that just being in one means something’s going right is I’ve been in such fucking toxic relationships. It’s not all it cracks out to be until it’s with the right person.

Grace Exactly. And I think that’s kind of how I feel. Like I miss the days when I didn’t know, like I was being in a really awful relationship felt like. I miss that, like, naivete.

Jameela 100%.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela So yeah, just time to assess stuff, you know, time to assess your geography, your location, what your job style’s like, whether or not you’re putting yourself out there enough and and you know, whether or not you’re around the sort of people that you would want to spend that kind of time with. Okay, so moving on. Next up, would you stay with your partner if they cheated on you?

Grace Well, I have done that, and it didn’t go, it didn’t go well, so I would say you should not stay with someone that’s cheated on you. I don’t know. There’s so many things that come into play with this stuff, but and some people can get over, being cheated on easier than others. But I really think once that trust has been betrayed in that way, I’m someone who finds it really, really hard to forgive. And I don’t want to live a life where I’m questioning myself constantly and worrying that that’s going to happen again. And actually, what happened with me is after I was cheated on, I stayed with the person there was then this awful dynamic of he was convinced I was going to cheat on him.

Jameela Oh God.

Grace So it was like, it became both sides. It was awful.

Jameela Esther Perel came on to this podcast. I’ll stop saying that. Haha! And I’m not using this episode just to push all my other episodes that you’re not on.

Grace Ester Perel is a G. She’s, like, changed my life.

Jameela She was very, she’s very clever about relationships. And she said to me that, you know, she, she does a lot of work around, around infidelity and stuff. And she just said that there are a myriad of factors as to why someone, you know, cheats, like perhaps it is a sex addiction. It’s a chronic thing that’s not going to go away, but she was like, sometimes it’s because a connection has been lost in the relationship and you two have stopped having sex and you two are working crazy hours or something’s not aligned or there’s something going on externally that has created a space between you both that can sometimes be filled with a type of infidelity. And that’s not to then put the blame on the other person, of course, but it is to say that, well, there is a cause here. This is a symptom of a cause. If we treated the cause, could we stop this from ever happening again? Do we want to throw away everything we built over what might have just been a lapse of judgment due to these external circumstances? And that, I mean, I’m never I’ve never known if I’ve been cheated on, so as in I’ve probably been cheated on. But I don’t I don’t know, but I don’t know if I have, and so I don’t know what that would feel like.

Grace But do write in. Do write in. If you, if you, hahaha!

Jameela Let me know.

Grace If you are aware. Haha! No, I know yeah. Yeah. I do think that that’s a really nice way of looking at it. And I think and I listen to so many of Ester Perel’s podcasts about, like with couples who were like, one has cheated and they’re trying to get through it. And I think amazing if you can and if, if you can see where that fault line happened, also amazing. I think sometimes cheating is a manifestation of unhappiness in a relationship. And then when it happens, as the person who’s been cheated on, it also confronts you with how much you want to be in that relationship because it’s whether or not you want to fight and like, work through it and stay together. And then you kind of can know, I guess from that.

Jameela I would have to, I would have to fuck someone else. I think I would have to. I would have to level the playing field, I think, I don’t think I’m above it.

Grace I think that’s a good way to deal with it.

Jameela I don’t think I’m above it. I think I would have to shag someone else and then we can both go, “Right. Let’s fix the relationship.” I don’t think I could handle the imbalance just because I’m obsessed with what is fair, so I think that’s my toxic trait.

Grace I think that is good way of dealing, I actually think that’s a good way of dealing with it.

Jameela Cause it’s like that now we’re both in the same boat and now, you know, we’re, yeah, yeah, we understand each other now, you know, we’re like, we’ve, we are, you know, we’ve, we’re starting a blank canvas together. And so I think that, that, that in my brain, would make me feel better.

Grace I kind of get that. I do get that. But, you know, that’s the beginning of a very, very toxic relationship.

Jameela Toxic dynamic, yeah.

Grace But I totally get that. And like, yeah, listen, there was periods where I thought, “Should I just do that? And then maybe it’ll make me feel better.” But then I thought, no because I, in my toxic mindset, I also liked the fact that, like, I hadn’t done anything wrong in this situation.

Jameela Oh, that’s so funny. Yeah, I don’t think that should ever be the sole answer to something, but I do think that that that’s just like a way that might make you feel more sane. But, it has to be the, the, the, the general diagnosis of the whole thing has to be assessed, I think, as to like what exactly happened to lead to that. And maybe this person’s just a prick who doesn’t deserve you, in which case.

Grace Yeah, also that and also maybe they’ve got on with someone who, like you’ve always been concerned about, and maybe it’s something that’s like triggered lots of other things, you know.

Jameela So I feel like we found quite a healthy place with that, right? It’s obviously dependent on the scenario, but there is a way back, if you are both willing to do that work and highly recommend listening to my episode with Ester Perel. Okay, so, next up, this is a good one. “A friend is draining my energy and she calls me her best friend but doesn’t treat me like one. She treats me like a therapist, not a friend. How do I tell her? Or do I tell her or back off?”

Grace Oh, wow. I was talking about this yesterday. I was at an event like where it was, it was all about friendships and, like, sustaining long term friendships, which I, we both are very good at I would say. And this woman said something which I thought was kind of true where, when you feel like someone is a drain on you, like a friend is a drain on you, it’s very hard to say that, like, outright, because that’s a pretty horrible thing to hear, that you are like a drain on me. And so I think you have to be quite diplomatic, especially if someone is like, mentally like, like vulnerable. You have to deal with it in the like, nicest way possible, but if you feel like you can’t handle this friendship, then you have to just create boundaries of like, I’m not going to be as emotionally involved in your life as I have been in the past because I have to protect myself and it’s starting to affect me in this way. That is what I would say.

Jameela Yeah, I’m all about, you know what I’m like, I’m all about, well constructed text message expressing all of my grievances very, very clearly. I don’t believe you should, you should feel like you have to back off. I think you should get it off your chest. And I think you should move forward, like I think you should, I think you should have enough trust in the friendship that you can say how you feel and how this person’s making you feel, and it can kind of be your your shit-mus test, which is, you know, I think always something that I find important is that I’m, I want to know if someone’s actually willing to show up and really be my friend. So I’d rather just say the difficult thing and be like, “You behave like this. This is how it makes me feel. And this is what I would prefer out of a friendship dynamic.” And if they’re rude or just say no or sort of, you know, manipulate you back about it, then you can back off. But I think it sometimes feels shit to back off without giving someone the benefit of the doubt, of just letting them know that that’s how they’re making you feel first.

Grace Yes.

Jameela Because I would hate that. I would hate if I was behaving in a bit of a shit way that I wasn’t really aware of, and I was being enabled and no one told me. And then one day, ten years later, after losing the friendship, I found out that it was actually something that would have been pretty easy to remedy.

Grace I think so. I think it’s it’s hard because, like, people can be so defensive with things like this. So I’ve had situations in the past where I will confront someone about something, and then I end up being the person that they isolate first because I’ve said it and that’s what I always get worried about.

Jameela Yeah, but then you know, but then you know that that’s not the friendship for you.

Grace Yeah, but I guess I get so worried about, I know, but it’s more I worry about them, like, without like I just, I get worried about like falling out with people because I’m like, “What if something happened and I hadn’t been there?” And I don’t know, like, it’s it’s really hard, but I do agree. And you’re so good at that. And I am, one of my goals this year was to be better at making it really clear what my kind of like limits were with people’s behaviors, and I’m starting to do that, like I’ve noticed, like myself just being better and less scared of, like what people are going to say back. And I do think just giving someone the chance to change and to be aware of how they’re making you feel honors the friendship in a much better way than just, like, ghosting them.

Jameela Totally, totally. Oh God, I’ve been given so many notes by friends where they’re just like, you know, because I’m sometimes too blunt or I’m a bit socially odd or, you know, like, I, I hide in my house too much. There’s plenty of things about me that sometimes can piss people off. And I’m so much of a better friend for having been told, so I’m just so grateful for that olive branch that I always think we should offer someone like the respect that we believe they’re capable of change. It’s up to you. Depends on how, whether you like this person enough or not. That’s another thing, is that if I don’t actually want a long term relationship of some type with that person, then I can’t be fucked to have the confrontation. I only ever confront someone who actually want it to get better with. If I don’t give a shit, yeah, then I just walk away. I’m not, I’m not someone who just, like, wants to have everything be clear all the time. It’s not worth my energy if I don’t actually want this person to change. The main bit of advice I would give for how I do it is, you know, Marshall Rosenberg kind of put the foundation down for nonviolent communication, and he says that you shouldn’t lead in with like, “You’re selfish. You’re this.” Don’t label that person. Just say, “I feel like this when you do this,” because it immediately forces them to empathize with you and think about your feelings and what that must be like for you. And if they can’t, if they’re incapable of that, then they’re probably a fucking narcissist that we were talking about earlier.

Grace This thing, this is, I think I I’ve had such bad experiences with confrontation that I’m only used to dealing with narcissists. And so I expect everybody to respond in that way.

Jameela Yeah, but then adios, do you know what I mean? Then it’s, it’s goodbye.

Grace No, 100%. And that’s more in romantic relationships. I don’t think I have any friends who are narcissists, but I think I’ve been so, like, burned in that way that I just think everyone’s going to react by being like, “But it’s actually your fault.” And then I’m like, then I just never say anything, but you’re so right. My mom’s been, like, learning obsessively about nonviolent communication at the moment. She’s reading those books about it, and so she keeps talking about it. And that’s definitely a skill that everybody should have in their pocket.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace To be able to to confront these things without accusing someone of being a bad person. I think nobody wants to be told they are bad, like fundamentally bad or broken.

Jameela I haven’t had a fight with anyone I know for nine years because of it, because of learning that.

Grace Mm.

Jameela I could have applied that to my Twitter. I learned it too late, but you know, we move.

Grace I don’t think the same rules apply. I don’t think the same rules are bound to that.

Jameela That’s true. Oh my God, so the next one is, “How do I train my boyfriend how to be a good boyfriend?” Haha!

Grace I know I said, I put this one in because I knew it would make you feel so sad. Haha! Right.

Jameela Oh, God.

Grace What the fuck? How do you train your boyfriend? The thing is, like, I was like

Jameela This is like How to Train Your Dragon. Feels like a

Grace Yeah. I was talking to someone about this the other day, like, I think, so I was talking, someone someone that I know has started dating someone.

Jameela Okay.

Grace But they were like, but I hate his hair and I hate his clothes. And I was like, those are two things you can just change. Like, it is no problem when you get into a relationship with someone to just, I’ve made so many men more attractive, like by being with them and by styling them and making them wear better clothes and like do different things with their hair and stuff. Those things you can change. I don’t know if you can train them to like, be nice to you or like be good at communication. You can definitely make them hotter if that’s what you want.

Jameela Haha! Okay. Wait, I okay, so I, I have some things I that I, I think I could add to that. I think there are ways in which everyone can be, you know, invited to do things a bit better and a bit differently. And I think, unfortunately, if we’re just going to be super real about the way that we’re socialized, right, girls are socialized to nurture and look after everyone and consider everyone’s needs and especially put ourselves, you know, put ourselves second.

Grace Second.

Jameela Yeah, you know, almost especially behind men, especially if you’re straight and cis blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I do think that we have to take into account, as irritating as it is, the differences in the way in which we’re socialized, whereas the world is much more built for men, and they’ve got mothers who are often doing a lot for them, and they’re growing up in households sometimes where they’re seeing a dynamic in which the father does less and the mother makes more of the effort, and then the dad will just bring home some, like Ferrero Rocher on Valentine’s Day. And then that’s the big, you know, that the dad looks after his own children, and it’s called babysitting. It’s like that is the the infrastructure of the world is, you know, even if you look at music videos, it’s like the woman is in a bikini covered in oil on her knees, doing a really sexy, difficult dance that’s very hard to do on top of a piano covered in oil. It’s very dangerous. And the man is sitting there in a, you know, outdoor winter layers.

Grace With a cigar.

Jameela With a cigar.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela He’s smoking indoors, already a crime, and he’s sitting there and he’s doing nothing. He’s doing nothing. He’s just sitting and watching. It’s like, look at that messaging of how much effort goes into the two different things. So I do think that some people genuinely don’t know what is expected of them in a relationship until they are told. And and I have found in relationships in the past to say to someone like, “Hello, it would be really nice if you could sometimes offer

Grace Wash.

Jameela To help me.” Yeah. Haha!

Grace It’s like, yeah, I know, I know.

Jameela You’re like bigger and stronger than me and if you see me struggling

Grace But that’s why I love the word train. I love the word train.

Jameela Train is so intense.

Grace Cause I do feel like sometimes men are like dogs, and you can help them form better habits.

Jameela Yeah I think, yeah. It is genuinely about asking yourself what do you want, what do you need, and that, you know, that is realistic. Like if you, if you’re someone who’s like, ” want a fucking five star hotel or really expensive restaurants and this, that and the other and like a fucking Birkin bag and you know, you’re dating someone whose just kind of getting by on a living wage, that’s different. That to me is not necessarily the good boyfriend, but if it’s learning how to be more considerate of your needs and learning how to anticipate your needs, which is a skill that very few of them have because they weren’t trained.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela Then that’s about asking someone to start considering this. Anyone’s capable of changing, it just means that they just need a bit of guidance, as I’m sure do we in certain ways.

Grace Yeah, and I think as well, like, the problem with relationships is that you like a lot of this is about gender, but some of it is just about like, you, you get into, you you don’t know this person that well, like, and you have to teach them what your communication styles are like. I’ve dated people who just do not text like they just cannot text. They have to just talk on the phone. And then I have to like really sort of say to them like, I cannot like, have you like, not reply to my messages for long, like a really long time because it sends me into a spiral and then either they like learn to do that or they don’t. But the things like that is just, you just have to say, “This is what I’m like. These are like my needs that I have from like long, like a long past of like maybe trauma and things that happened to me.” Either you can like meet these quite small needs or you can’t. And if you can’t, then this probably won’t work in the long run.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace But those things are like, you know, that’s just being in a relationship.

Jameela Totally. I mean, James had to have a go at me for how terrible I am on the phone because I don’t text, and I don’t want to call. I don’t want to, I just hate the phone and but I but I will send like an extraordinary amount of memes over Instagram Reels over Instagram, so it’s like that’s my love language is communicating and “this reminded me of you,” but I don’t want to talk about anything over the phone. I just want to be face to face. And he’s a touring musician, and I’m a actress who works abroad, so that’s really fucking annoying. And I’ve had to be given plenty of training around learning how to respond.

Grace Exactly, exactly. And then you got better at that.

Jameela Yeah. Like a bit.

Grace You do. You do. No, you are better.

Jameela No, I’m much better now, but that’s because of him, because he trained me. The word train makes it sound awful. I prefer invite, but yeah, that’s.

Grace I love train.

Jameela Yeah, of course you do.

Grace I love train. And Eddie’s face just, she just looked at me then and was like, “You don’t know what that word means.”

Jameela We don’t need to answer this one, but someone wrote in a question of, “Men. Why are they like that?” Hahahahahahahaha.

Grace I would say that’s not even a question. That is just a statement.

Jameela Yeah, it’s the Issa Rae tweet, “WHY ARE MEN”.

Grace Yes, why are men.

Jameela Alright. Okay, so someone said, “If you’re with the right person, is it still normal to have doubts about being with them forever?” Yes.

Grace Yeah, I mean, I don’t like, I just think that’s part of the human existence. It’s like when you get a job and you’re like, should I be in this job? You know, like you’re constantly questioning, like existential things, like, what am I doing with my life? I can’t tell you how many times a day I say, like, “I think I should stop doing comedy and like, go and do something like, really off key,” like, I just think that’s part of life. And it’s funny how much people, how deep people make those feelings. It’s like I have friends who will like, have a sex dream about someone else, and they’ll be like, *gasp* and they’ll feel so bad about it. And I’m like, relax, like you’re allowed to have sex dreams about other people. Like, it’s not that deep. You’re not a robot.

Jameela Yeah. I cannot stress enough. We have 9 billion people on this planet. It is okay for you to sometimes wonder about other people. Other people are attractive. Other people have certain qualities. To expect that the person that you have chosen has every single quality that you desire all of the time, even as you grow and age and change and evolve, is completely ridiculous. It’s just about finding the person who makes you feel safe and happy and who you have like a lovely connection with. That does not make them the perfect person who embodies everything you want better than everyone else in the world. It’s just about like, oh, this, like nothing, nothing is perfect. No one is perfect. No job is perfect. No house is perfect. No person is perfect. No friend is perfect. But we we go with the people that make us feel the best. It’s totally okay to sometimes wonder. Forever is a daunting idea. Monogamy is a daunting concept. Marriage is really a bit weird honestly.

Grace It’s so weird. Oh my God, my friend Chris said this, like I feel bad saying one of his stand up bits, but it really made me laugh. But my friend Chris is like the most amazing stand up, and he said this bit the other day on stage where he was like, “You know, like weddings, it’s just like, can people just not have an original thought?” And it’s like, it’s so true, like when people get engaged, I’m like, really? Do you think that you invented that? Like, do you think you’re the first person to ever have thought of that?

Jameela I know.

Grace It’s so archaic.

Jameela Oh my God.

Grace And I think that’s the other thing is that we, we get worried about this stuff because we think that, like, relationships have to be forever. And actually they don’t.

Jameela No.

Grace You don’t, you really don’t have to think that way.

Jameela When you were last in my house, did I show you that picture that that woman had sent around Hollywood?

Grace Yes.

Jameela There’s this famous photograph, and I just want to tell everyone about it, and then we can decide if we keep it in or not, but this, like, famous executive in like, this very, very well-known, powerful executive in Hollywood, sent everyone a picture of her massive fuck off engagement ring. And like, you know, like the way that people to send it out to absolutely everyone. Just, like, showing everyone, like, “Look at what I’m worth.” And, she didn’t realize that it was a live photo. And a live photo is really just more of a photo that kind of if you press on it becomes a little video of what happened in that moment. And what she didn’t realize is that as she’s taking the photo, the fiancee who’s clearly just proposed to her, walks into the shot and gets his dick out. His full dick out.

Grace And sort of puts his dick like on her hand.

Jameela Or pretty much like right under where her hand is to try and ruin her photo because he’s a joker. But they didn’t realize that that

Grace Legend alert.

Jameela Legend alert. But they didn’t, they didn’t realize that, but they didn’t realize that that was in. So, you know, live photos were brand new at the time, and so that went viral around the entire industry. And now everyone sees

Grace Honestly, though, when you showed me that, I now check because I used to not check when I, if I was sending a message on iMessage

Jameela Yeah.

Grace I would not check the like what the live was.

Jameela Totally and also like sometimes it records sound as well, so someone can hear what you’re saying.

Grace Yeah yeah yeah.

Jameela Just be like sending a picture of my tits to this cunt, you know.

Grace Yeah, yeah.

Jameela Hahahaha!

Grace Or it’s like a really hot picture of you, and then it comes down and it’s like all of my chins.

Jameela Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There you go. So, no, it’s completely normal to, I don’t remember why I started telling someone that, but telling you guys that but anyway, it is it is completely normal to to always have doubts forever. And I also think that there’s something kind of lovely about the bit of doubt because it forces you to have to keep reassessing the reasons that you love that person. And for me, it can sometimes strengthen my love for that person, even if I’m around someone else that I find attractive. I’m like, “Yeah, they’re great, but they haven’t got this, this, this and this.” And so you always know that you’re going with the best of the options. It just doesn’t mean that the other options don’t exist.

Grace Yes. And again

Jameela And I’m glad you found the right person.

Grace You are a normal human being.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace That’s a normal human feeling to have.

Jameela Okay. Really good one. Next up, someone said, “How should guys approach women in real life? I’m sick of dating apps. My “the one” is not on there.”

Grace Oh, I really love this because this is from a guy. And, I think this is a really good question because first of all, dating apps are I can’t even tell you how in the grave they are. They are dead. Like, no one I know is enjoying the experience of being on a dating app at the moment, right? Like, and we’re all like me and my friends who are single or like, just doing, like, more fun things. Like, I went to a party last night and me and my friend like really like chatted with so many different guys, and that was fun. I felt like I was like living in a different era. It was very vintage, but how do, what do men, what should men do? I really think now. I think it’s really sad how much men feel like they, like, are creeps if they come up to someone in social situations.

Jameela I think it’s the sad, it’s the sad thing of the pendulum always swinging too far whenever a new subject arises. For example, the MeToo movement conversation should have been a very straightforward conversation that somehow got the pendulum swung all the other way of like men who didn’t really understand the movement going, “Can’t even compliment a woman anymore.” And it’s like, that’s not what we were asking for. We’re just asking if you’d stop raping us.

Grace Yeah, exactly.

Jameela It’s very simple.

Grace And you don’t need to hop, skip, and jump to that other conclusion, but I think the thing is, when when it happens to me, if someone comes up to me and like, tries to chat me up, if I don’t fancy them, I’m like, “No, thank you though,” like, thank you so much, and then they walk away. So like, you should just, you know, it kind of depends like on what the context is like and where you are like, like there are some situations where maybe you shouldn’t go and try and chat someone up, like, I don’t know, like in a therapy office.

Jameela At a hospital.

Grace Yeah, hospital. Haha!

Jameela You know, actually I got asked at a hospital and it was pretty great and we went on a date.

Grace Okay, stop bragging. Haha!

Jameela Haha! It ended in disaster. Don’t worry. But, but okay, no, so what I would say is that another thing I just want to say before I even answer this is that when a man or anyone does approach you to ask you out, that is the scariest, fucking, most vulnerable thing that someone can do. And I believe it is important to even if it’s annoying, even if you were busy shopping or doing something that day, not not not just for the fact that it’s obviously going to make you more safe, but I do genuinely try to always make sure that someone knows that, like, “Oh, that’s really flattering. And thank you for making that effort.”

Grace Yeah, that’s what I always

Jameela Like I really appreciate the fucking balls it takes to cross a room and put yourself out there like that. And that’s something that I haven’t really done in my life before. And, you know, society is set up in a way that means that it is on, you know, the male gender more to approach other, to approach the female gender, etc., which I think, by the way, is also fucking bullshit that we feel shamed about going up to someone and saying I fancy you. I think that all of that needs to level out, but I just want to say that, like when you reject someone, unless they’re being like, offensive or gross or weird or presumptuous, if someone’s there just with their heart out, don’t make them feel small because it’s really fucking scary what they’re doing.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela So try to be kind with it. When it comes to how I would want to be approached, I’m trying to think of ways that I have been approached. I think it’s just someone coming over and not bullshitting and trying to start annoying small talk. I think someone just coming over here being like, “Hello, my name is this. I think you look really nice and I would like to go for coffee with you to see if we have anything in common. Is that something you would be interested in doing? If not, I’m so sorry, and I will leave you alone.” And like, that is just so nice and straightforward. I hate the game of when someone’s trying to, like, start up a flirty conversation.

Grace I know I, oh my God, don’t. It cringes me so much, but also I think so the problem and then sort of lingering aftermath of like dating apps is that I get worried if I’m, because I have no qualms if I think someone’s like, if someone’s like looked at me once, I have no qualms like going up to them and talking to them. If they reject me, I guess, like I it will like burn me for a few minutes. But you have to because now with dating apps, we’re so used to knowing if someone is actually available, and sometimes you get a bit worried of like, “Oh, I don’t want to like go up to someone and spend like ages, like trying to like talk to them and then and to realize that they’re like engaged.” So I’d like to sort of know straight away.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Like, are you single?

Jameela Yeah.

Grace So that’s one of the first questions I ask.

Jameela That’s so funny, but that’s completely fair.

Grace But it’s fair.

Jameela I just think getting straight to the point, making it, making it brief, you know, and then getting out of there if it’s a no go. You know what I mean?

Grace Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Having an exit strategy

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Is good.

Jameela Just like if you’re not interested, that’s fine.

Grace But I would say to this man, like, I really like that you are asking this question to be honest. And I think people should, we should be better, and go back to the days where you would just like, go up to someone in a pub and be like, “Hey, you having a nice evening? What’s your name?” Like that used to be a very normal occurrence and I think, don’t try not to overthink it. And also, like, eye contact is a really good way to pick up on whether or not someone, like, wants to talk to you.

Jameela My friend, I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, my friend is got the most genius way of trying to assess if someone’s looking at them in a bar, which is, you know, how yawns are contagious. He’ll yawn in the direction of a woman and then look away. And when he looks back, if she’s also yawning, then he knows she was definitely looking at him. And it’s my favorite thing.

Grace That’s so genius. Although I have the ugliest yawn in the world, so I could never do that. But that is genius.

Jameela It’s so good.

Grace That’s amazing.

Jameela And so if someone gives you that signal, then maybe it’s time to approach and just be straightforward. Be polite, be respectful, and be brief. That’s it. Don’t try and save your ego afterwards. No means no and leave. But I think the nicer you are, and also I really think it’s important to be authentic, right? If you’re feeling a bit nervous, say you’re a bit nervous. Don’t, if you’re if you’re not feeling completely alpha, that’s okay. This idea that all women want someone to just be completely alpha, like it depends on the person. The best thing to do is just be yourself because if you’re going to then go on a date with that person, then maybe be in a relationship with that person, they’re going to find out who the fuck you are really, so if that’s not necessary, if your if your approach is not like the sort of caveman approach, don’t fake that. Just be yourself because we can pick up on that shit.

Grace It’s so funny. I’m thinking about like, do you remember, like this used to always happen when we were younger, but like, when someone would try and chat me up and then I’d say “No,” and then they’d be like, “Well, you’re biters anyway. I didn’t even want to talk to you.”

Jameela Like that’s not something that just happened when we were younger, like, that happened to me like yesterday.

Grace I wasn’t even talking to you. I was talking to the one behind you.

Jameela I was just joking anyway.

Grace Yeah, it was a joke. As if. Haha! Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. And I, and I hope that, and also, I looked on this guy’s profile, and he is quite good looking so.

Jameela Go him.

Grace Why don’t you ask me out?

Jameela Yeah, haha! Oh, my God, that’s so funny. If you end up getting together with this person I’m going to die.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela At this meet-cute.

Grace Yeah. That’s my advice is you should just shoot your shot. Haha!

Jameela Ooh. “How should I tell my friend that I have strong feelings for her and that her boyfriend is a tool?” Oof, I’ve been there. I’ve been there. I’ve so been there, and it is so difficult. I fell in love with my best friend when I was 20, and she would just go after, like, prick after prick after prick after prick. And I was like, “Just love me.” But I just had to, like, swallow it because I was too afraid because I knew that she was definitely straight and so I couldn’t do it. And you know, this friend, and she’s still in my life now, and we’ve just stayed best friends. I’m really glad that I didn’t, I’m personally glad that I didn’t take that shot because this person is straight. But it is fucking brutal.

Grace Awful. Yes, yes.

Jameela It is fucking brutal.

Grace Yeah. I’ve just watched One Day the like Netflix adaptation of One Day and I hadn’t read it or like watched the film, so was coming to it completely blind, but it was so much of it was really like bringing up some of those feelings of situations that I’ve had in the past of having a really strong feeling for a friend and not really knowing how to deal with it because also you don’t know what car crash is going to follow. It could be good, but in my experience, it sometimes is really, really bad and then you lose that person, so I don’t really know what to say because I think that in my like the insight from my life, sometimes it is better not to because of what you could lose, but you have to kind of judge on what you think might happen. You have to sort of be able to assess that.

Jameela Yeah, I think in my case it was more straightforward because of the sexuality thing, but this might be a boy writing in about his girlfriend and that she’s got a boyfriend who’s a tool. I think if we’re just going to be strategic because it’s a lot to overwhelm someone with, and then it also makes it look like your disapproval of the people that she’s dating is just because you want to date her, so it makes it look, it muddies the waters a little bit in my opinion of like why are you saying that

Grace But also on that

Jameela So I think you should take it one step at a time, maybe voice your concerns about the people that she’s dating. And if you’re right, and if that manages to illuminate her, then maybe she stops seeing that person and then she’s single. And if you think that there might be a mutual interest, then go for it. If you don’t think there’s mutual interest there, and that the only thing that’s getting between you two is this prick boyfriend, then the I, I’m not totally sure that you should go there.

Grace I think I think the problem is right, like in these situations, sometimes because you’re so close with someone, you confuse that with having feelings for them as well because you know them so intimately. If you can separate the two and say, like, how am I going to communicate to this person that I think that boyfriend is a loser. Do that first, although that’s of a really hard task anyway because that can be something that will then alienate you from this person. But if you can do that and try and separate the two and then deal with your feelings for them over time, and maybe once they’ve gotten out of a relationship. But sometimes I think we confuse loving someone and being in love with them.

Jameela Yeah, but then sometimes we are just in love with our friend. Like, I mean, I was in love with this person for fucking years. So I think that my personal opinion is that you should voice your concerns about that because because the concern should be led with your concern for your friend being in a bad relationship rather than that person is an obstacle for you being with the friend, right? Because then that becomes much more self-serving. As a mate, if you see that your friend is dating someone who is not worthy of them and not treating them correctly, that is the first port of call to address. And you’ll know from there if she’s just really into that person. If she is really into that person then she’s not into you. If you tell her that this person’s a prick

Grace And you should back off

Jameela And she’s like, “No, well, that’s my prick,” then you should back off. If she ends up seeing the light and is single, and then you give her a bit of time to just sort of, you know, rest. Then I think that then you can approach the subject of just being like, “Have you ever considered me?” You know.

Grace No, but that’s

Jameela It’s

Grace Yeah.

Jameela No, but I mean, that’s kind of like that’s kind of what happened with me and James, you know, like, I was, we were friends, and then I was in a relationship. And then when I wasn’t in a relationship anymore, he was like, he literally turned it into a lyric in his song, I’ll Come To. He said, I’ll throw my hat in the ring, you know, like he shot his shot.

Grace It’s a great song.

Jameela It is a lovely song. But he said, I’ll, I just want to throw my hat in the ring, you know, in case when you start dating again, you would like to date me, and then I did.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela And then 9 years later, we’re together, so I just think it’s got to be.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela He did not try to interfere in my relationship.

Grace Which is really key.

Jameela He stayed my friend, was there for me during break up and then, you know, took advantage of my sadness. No, I’m joking. Haha!

Grace Haha!

Jameela And then and then he, you know, made a really like, you know, lovely move and I was ready for it. I wouldn’t have been ready if it had happened while I was actually in a relationship. It would have just be so overwhelming and confusing and it would have probably fucked up the relationship.

Grace I think that’s the thing. I think that’s really good advice, to be honest. I think that’s probably what this person should do is not try and interfere too much while this person’s in a relationship.

Jameela Just one thing at a time.

Grace Timing.

Jameela Help your mate get out of this relationship first, and then and then shoot your shot and good luck. Good luck! I hope it goes really well. Alright. Last one. Perfect for us. “How do you maintain your strong friendships?”

Grace Oh, I’m just good vibes. I’m just good vibes.

Jameela And humble. It’s your humility that really draws in the friendships.

Grace No, I’m joking. I’m joking. I just, I don’t know, I don’t know, like, my mum always says that like, the reason I have so many friends is because I’m a good friend. And I think, like, I just, I like, check in on people.

Jameela You are a good friend. You are a good friend.

Grace I tell people I love them whenever I think about them, so you’ll get this, like, I would just, like, randomly think of someone and then I’ll just tell them that I love them. And I just want everyone that I love to know how much I love them and I want everyone to that I hate to know how much I hate them, in equal paths. So likewise, when I think of how much I hate someone, I tell them “I hate you.” Hahahahahaha!

Jameela Oh, it’s like that, that my favorite meme that I post sort of once a year of like, “Don’t wait to tell people how you feel. Tell them to fuck off now.”

Grace Yes! Hahaha!

Jameela Hahaha! It’s so, I feel so seen by that meme.

Grace It’s exactly that. There’s this other meme that I like that I keep looking at, which is like, “Do you know that moment when you meet someone and you just know, you know that feeling when you meet someone and you just know that you never want to say this person again in your life?”

Jameela Yeah, I feel exactly the same way, and you are the most loving friend and communicative friend. And I’ve been going through something so awful for the last few few weeks, and you are by far the person who’s reached out to me the most and checked in on me. And I really, really appreciate it. And I need to, you inspire me to be better at communicating with other people. But I do think that you and I both prioritize our friendships massively, like in my life, friendship and my relationship is my same priority. I consider them the same priority.

Grace Yeah, yeah.

Jameela One is not above the other. Friendship is more important to me than my career. More important to me than money. More important to me even than my health. There’s nothing, like they are such a priority for like my survival depends on my friendships. My happiness depends on my friendships massively. My boyfriend also is one of my best friends, so he kind of falls into that, but there is, there’s which I’ve I’ve started working less in the last four years because I want to spend more time with my mates, so I want to live in like a cheaper place and live a happier life where I can spend more time with everyone because when I was fucking girlbossing and busy all the time and traveling all the time, you know, everyone was like applauding me from a distance. And I’m not finding out how someone’s relationship’s going or what, how they’re dating with postnatal depression. I missed so much, you know, people losing a parent, and I just wasn’t there for them, and then just recently, it happened again where a mate of mine who had been, you know, having a rough time, I was away and I was busy and I was working and I didn’t call enough. And now that person has died in the last few weeks, and I, I don’t think I’m ever going to get over the fact that I was just too fucking busy to see them when I had the last chance like, it’s never going to stop haunting me. And I know that we all have that regret, and no one ever feels that they’ve had enough time or told someone enough that they love them, but it was just like.

Grace I do think you have to hold on to that.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace It’s that you’ll always feel that way, but I really I don’t want you to feel that way about yourself.

Jameela No.

Grace It’s such a normal thing to feel about yourself.

Jameela But what would help me, but what would help me not feel that way is just like continuing to work harder to be near my friends and be with my friends.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela You know, we all have to work, we all have to have jobs, but I’m so, like, utterly disgusted with the rat race culture that I have been in for the last 15 years. And just like increasingly so, and I think that was like the straw that broke the camel’s back for me, where I was like, I just can’t do it. I just like, I would really, really rather just work part time and live a lifestyle that comes along with that, you know, and have less, you know, shit, bullshit and be there with and for my friends more because this feeling like nothing has ever that I’ve ever achieved or an award I’ve ever won or a paycheck I’ve ever gotten has ever felt worth how awful this feeling is. Nothing. And so, you know, when I wrote that post that I didn’t, you know, expect to travel as much as it did, but I was just trying to say to people like, call your fucking friends, like, please call your friends. And then the irony, which I’m mortified to admit, is that that same week, everyone reached out to me and texted me because that fucking post went viral and I just was too upset to text anyone back. So after telling everyone

Grace But that’s so fine!

Jameela But after telling everyone to like, reach out and call your friends, I then ignored all of my friends for that week. I’ve texted everyone back now.

Grace But that’s so fine, Jam. Yeah, but the point is, the point is, and the the thing is like, that’s A) so fine because you also can’t be everything for everyone when you’re going through it, and I think the best friends understand that. And I was talking about this yesterday, but the reason why I feel so lucky with my friendships is because, like, no one holds each other to these insane standards of like, you know, you can’t be everything for everyone all the time because if you are a really good friend, it means that you sometimes you’re you’re lending yourself to one person more than another person because they need that. And so like, we shouldn’t, I just yeah, I wouldn’t worry about that. I think you’re an amazing friend and you make me feel so loved honestly. And you’ve changed my life in, like, more ways than I can ever articulate. But you are, you’re just a brilliant person to have in my life and, like, as a champion and just, you make me feel so safe and supported, so I just really want you to know that.

Jameela Thank you. I love you, and I’m really glad.

Grace I love you so much.

Grace And I’m glad that we met when I’d already come to the conclusion that I want to pour, like, what is my idea of success? My idea of success is just being incredibly happy and laughing all of the time. And for me, the easiest way to do that is to be surrounded by my incredibly funny friends. And that priority came into effect about a year before I met you. And so I’m so glad that that’s the version of me that you’ve gotten, and I’m just going to keep working towards it. And I just cannot stress enough, I’ve had the fame, I’ve had the magazine covers, I’ve had all the fucking bullshit that we’re told will fulill us. It doesn’t fulfill shit compared to friendship, so prioritize that the best you can. I love you. Thank you for coming onto

Grace I love more.

Jameela This episode. You’re so funny and real and relatable, and that’s exactly how everyone who’s seen your your Work in Progress show already has described your new show. And, our mutual friend who, well, one of my best friends who came to see your show

Grace Who’s now my friend.

Jameela Who doesn’t, who didn’t even know you that well, so didn’t have a reason to be biased, was raving about your show. I can’t wait to see it. You know, I’m coming back to England soon. I can’t wait to see it. But, everyone go book tickets disgracecampbell.com or .co.UK?

Grace Yes, yes. Haha! Sorry, yes.

Jameela Stop imagining me saying it in a Jamaican accent.

Grace Hahaha!

Jameela You fucking twat.

Grace Sorry it’s the way, it’s the emphasis on dis, like. Yes, disgracecampbell.com, Grace Campbell is on Heat, and thank you all so much for your questions as well because

Jameela Yeah, they were great.

Grace I love when people are so honest and share and, you know, it’s very comforting.

Jameela Adore you all. Thank you. Love you, Grace.

Grace Love you.

Jameela Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan, Kimmie Gregory, and Amelia Chappelow. And the beautiful music that you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. And if you haven’t already, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show. It’s such a great way to show your support and helps me out massively. And lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. Please email us a voice recording sharing what you weigh at iweighpodcast@gmail.com.