EP. 212 — Unfiltered: AMA with Grace Campbell 2

Jameela Hello, everyone. Welcome to Ask Me Anything with Jameela Jamil. These are my favorite I Weigh episodes sometimes because I get to sit and talk with a friend who is wiser and cleverer than me about your problems, and you write in questions and we answer them together. What you’re hearing right now is my guest, Grace Campbell. Hello. Welcome, Grace.

Grace Can you still hear me chewing?

Jameela A little bit. But, she’s having to quickly replenish herself because the last time we did this together, she got a little bit distracted at the end because she was so hungry and waited till I’d finished a long, really thoughtful monologue of

Grace It was really profound. It was really profound. It was.

Jameela Fuck off. Haha! And I said it to her and then looked to her for a response, and she just went, “Can I have the packet of crisps in my bag?” And that’s all she said and never actually answered the question and then just ate for the end of the episode, and I just had to wrap things up, so in order to stop that from happening, I forced her to snack and drink just beforehand.

Grace It’s very do you remember in Kevin and Perry when Kathy Burke’s character’s like, “Can I have a jam sandwich with that?” That’s like me all the time. Like I’m posting, having to ask adults can we quickly eat before we start. Hahaha.

Jameela Haha. So are you feeling alright today? Are you with us?

Grace Yes cause I just had a Nutri-Grain. And then I had some, some crisps. So sort of what we, what we eat in the morning. Everyone here.

Jameela Yeah, yeah.

Grace I’ll have a banana after this.

Jameela Yeah, we had chocolate lollipops. It’s the breakfast of champions.

Grace Exactly. We’re set.

Jameela Okay, so you’re here to answer questions. The last time you were on, everyone was obsessed. They really, really enjoyed your insight. We also had your fans send in some questions they wanted to know, so it’s especially tailored to you. And Grace has a brilliant podcast about dating and talks a lot about dating in her stand up, and just the experience of being a young woman in this world growing up. You are going to be 30 imminently.

Grace My gosh, I know, and in ten days.

Jameela How are you feeling?

Grace I’m so, I feel like I’m 30 already. Probably because I have, like, old friends.

Jameela Because we had a birthday party for you two days ago. Do you just say because you’ve got old friends? You can’t trigger me about age.

Grace I know.

Because I love being old.

Grace Yeah, but I feel like I’m on your level where I’m looking forward to getting older.

Jameela You’re not anywhere near my level.

Grace Go fuck yourself. Haha!

Jameela Haha!

Grace I feel, like, really excited for my 30s.

Jameela Good.

Grace I’m done with my 20s. Like I’m just done with them.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace I feel like I need to go into this new decade of, like, I’m, I’m, I’m I’m wise now.

Jameela Yeah, totally. I, how do you feel as you say goodbye to your 20s? About your 20s.

Grace Very.

Jameela If you could summarize it.

Grace I feel, like, really proud and triumphant that I managed to make it through my 20s. I was, it was very it was very touch and go. I nearly died twice. And I’ve had some terrible heartbreaks and just I guess I’ve just learned so much in my 20s. So I look at it and I’m like, oh my God bless her. Like the version of me at the beginning of my 20s was such a sad, lost person. And now I’m like, found, you know?

Jameela Yeah, I feel the same way. Why are you looking at me like that? Haha! I do think I do think that, I mean, even in the like what, how long we’ve been friends? Three years?

Grace Yeah.

Jameela In the three years that we’ve been friends, I feel like I’ve watched you go through just forest fire after forest fire. And I have to say, like, friend to friend, I think that you are unbelievably strong and resilient. And I like your determination to be a resilient person that you don’t wish to marinate for too long in the shit things that happen. You want to turn it into art, turn it into a, you know, a funny story, process it, and then move on and then use what you’ve learned to tell everyone else.

Grace Exactly. And to never make the same mistake again.

Jameela Yeah. It’s recycling. That’s what I do with all of my work is like, I fucked up all these things. Here is the guide how to not end up like me.

Grace It’s like offsetting your emissions. It’s like making it worth something, so someone else doesn’t do it.

Jameela And the problem, exactly. And the problem is, is that no one talks about how difficult your 20s are. Like, everyone makes it look like these are the best years of your life, and in many ways they are, because your body is the most resilient and you can bounce back quicker from mistakes and you’re not traumatized as much yet than by the time you get to my age, where you become a bit jaded and you know, towards your sort of crone crone era, but, my jadedness doesn’t make me feel down. I don’t know if you are experiencing the same thing where it’s like, I think we sometimes use the word jaded as if it is this negative thing. I don’t think it’s jaded. I think I’m just wise to how fucked the world is, especially for women. And now I know how better to protect myself. And I know that I have the right to protect myself. Before I used to feel like I was being difficult or dramatic. You have a smirk on your face, as if you’re about to ask me if you need a snack.

Grace No.

Jameela Okay.

Grace Oh my God, I’m just enjoying. Oh my God, you got such trauma from the last time.

Jameela I’ve got PTSD.

Grace Yeah, you really do. Hahaha!

Jameela Hahaha!

Grace  I’m really fine.

Jameela Okay. So, but I do think that, like, I don’t I don’t think I would call that jaded. I think I just feel prepared.

Grace I think jaded is the wrong word.

Jameela Yeah. We’ve got to stop saying it.

Grace I think it’s, like I don’t feel jaded at all about getting older. I feel like, oh my God, so nice. I look at people in their early 20s now, like, I have one friend who’s in our early 20s who I like, sort of check in on from now and then, and I’m like

Jameela Alright, nonce.

Grace Rich. Fucking rich coming from you, Jameela Jamil.

Jameela Who’s friends with Grace, 10 years younger.

Grace When did you prey on me. Yeah. Hahaha! You saw me from across the room and you went, “That looks like a ripe young 24 year old girl.”

Jameela 27.

Grace No, it was 26 or 27. Anyway, just semantics. Is that the word? Is that the right word?

Jameela I think so.

Grace Semantics.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Not pedantic?

Jameela No it’s semantics. We’re supposed to set you up as an authority here.

Grace Right. So, I and I look at, like, people that age right now, and I think, God, like, you have so much to discover. And I’m not jealous of that because I feel really happy that I’ve gone through that period of discovery.

Jameela And while we don’t want to scare the fucking shit out of anyone who’s currently listening to this from from your 20s, we’re broadcasting to you in the middle of your 20s. We want you to know that even when it feels like there’s absolutely no way you can or will survive this moment. You will.

Grace You will. And I think that’s really cool.

Jameela Yes.

Grace I think that the thing that I feel now that I’m turning 30 is, oh, is I

Jameela Did you fart?

Grace No, it was my foot on the pole.

Jameela Okay.

Grace Actually, I would never fart ever in my whole life I’ve never farted.

Jameela Famously, you don’t have a bumhole.

Grace Famously. Yes, exactly. That’s why I have to just slowly snack on tiny little crisps. I really feel like when looking back on all of that, so I’m not trying to, like, deter people from what they’re going to go through in their 20s at all. I think it’s really, really fucking cool that you’re going to start this period feeling like an adult, feeling like you’ve got your shit together, feeling like you understand the world. And then every year you’re going to be like, oh my God, I did not know anything last year. And then, oh my God. And that happens every year. And then you get to the end of your 20s and you’re like, it’s just it’s a transformation that’s like unbelievable. And when you get to see that and like having in the most part done it yourself, it’s a huge achievement. Some people don’t grow from that shit. You know, some people like go through their 20s and move into their 30s the same person.

Jameela Mhm.

Grace It’s only the cool, wise people that

Jameela I do think that some some part of that is a bit gendered, and it’s not a way of dismissing men. I think lately in the last few years, I’ve really come to understand how important, how lucky women are to have each other, how much we dig into everything, right into the weeds, to the point where we almost got get ridiculed as a gender for how much we

Grace Analyze things.

Jameela Analyze things. But we do that to keep ourselves and each other safe. Right? It’s it’s a it’s a really important part of growth. And I think that it’s so sad that men don’t have that same sense of community.

Grace And I think that’s why a lot of men do, like it takes them lot

Jameela It’s arrested development.

Grace Yeah, exactly. Takes them a lot longer to get to some of these epiphanies. I also think women challenge their friends much more than men do, which again, is like, that’s not about like overanalyzing things. My friends have challenged me so much in my life where they’ve really called out my bad habits and tried to make me and, you know, including you. And had that not happen, I probably would have thought I was like, fine at 25 and had no problems. And I think that’s a really great part of like evolving as a person, is people calling you out on your bullshit.

Jameela I feel the same way. And also, by the way, even my male friends have been instrumental in my growth, but it’s because they are talking to a woman. It’s the way that they don’t get to talk to each other that that creates, I think an arrested development, especially for men who don’t have a lot of female friends. And so it makes me just feel so grateful for you and all of the amazing women in my life. And I also want to say, just as a warning, your 30s are still every year you’re like, man, I really thought I had had it figured out last year. And also, there’s a really interesting thing that some people go through that I think is always important to be wary of is that sometimes your 20s can be so fucking terrifying that you overcorrect at the beginning of your 30s being like, “That’s it, I’m pulling up boundaries, I’m going to self preserve,” and you almost go too far. And I did that. I overcorrected, went too far, became a bit too honest, a bit too Lairy.

Grace No way. You? I can’t even imagine that.

Jameela But but now I’m having to pull myself back out of that being like, it’s okay to be soft. I’ve stopped rejecting the feminine side of myself that for a while I was like, because I got so fucked with because of misogyny in my 20s from men and women, I was like, “I’m going to stop being in any way,” I rejected my femininity, rejected what was soft about me, looked at it as a weakness, looked at it as a reason that I get preyed upon. And I’ve now come to a place of stillness and confidence where I don’t feel the need to overcorrect I feel like I can be soft again, and that feels like a really nice thing so remember you also have that to look forward to. Alright, so

Grace Fun. That’s fun.

Jameela So we have, yeah.

Grace Growing, getting older is fun.

Jameela It’s it’s truly the most interesting part of my life, I think. Okay, so we’ve been sent in some questions from both yours and my audience. The first one is, are you in a throuple? I don’t even know which one that is, which of us that’s to.

Grace That was sent to me. That was sent to me.

Jameela But do you think people think you’re in a throuple with me and James?

Grace I think that may be what it’s referring to.

Jameela Oh my God.

Grace I don’t know. Hahaha!

Jameela Why would people say that to you?

Grace I don’t know. We are not in a throuple.

Jameela We are not in a throuple.

Grace I would say it’s much more like a sort of fam family unit.

Jameela Oh my God, are you going to be another person who refers to us as your parents?

Grace No because it’s also like you’re both my siblings which is then weird because you’re a couple. So it all gets very complicated in my head because I see you as my brother and my sister, but then it’s like my brother and my sister having sex.

Jameela We can be stepsisters, and then it’s like porn.

Grace Yeah, exactly. Haha! But I do really, I mean I see James as my big brother, like

Jameela I see him as your twin.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela Your identical twin.

Grace In such a crazy way like, I feel like I’m so related to him. It’s really weird.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace We’re very similar. And then you’re like, my really cool, like, sister in law that I’m obsessed with.

Jameela Okay. Well, we both know that that’s not true. We both know that I’m your very, very strange, nerdy, intense neurodivergent sister. Hahaha! That’s fine.

Grace That’s fine. No, nut you’re also really cool. Look at, okay, this outfit that I’m wearing right now.

Jameela I was wearing a tight waistcoat and baggy, baggy trousers.

Grace Cool like laid back trousers with

Jameela Slacks

Grace Adidas super stars, and I wouldn’t be wearing anything this cool if it weren’t for you. What was I wearing last time we came here? My Versace sunglasses that you said look like

Jameela Jimmy Savile.

Grace Jimmy Savile’s glasses and then a string vest.

Jameela I think it was great. You have a lovely vibe. It’s just, you know, it’s fun to experiment, that’s all. Alright, next up, would it be an ick if your therapist did stand up on the side?

Grace Well, I think, I mean, I would love it if I bumped into my therapist at a gig, and we were, like, both on the line up.

Jameela Would you?

Grace I mean, it would be amazing for my stand up.

Jameela Right.

Grace Then I could write a whole show about the fact that I bumped into my therapist talking about me in her stand up. I think it’s more than an ick.

Jameela Wait, would you be offended or, like, a bit

Grace If she didn’t talk about me?

Jameela Would you be offended, yeah, I was going to say, would it be more offensive if she did talk about you or if she didn’t?

Grace Didn’t know she didn’t talk about me. I would jump off because I, you know, like in therapy, I’m always there and I’m like, “God, I bet I’m your most interesting client.” Haha!

Jameela Everyone thinks that.

Grace I always thinkm I always think that, like, right, whenever I leave, I’m like, God, I bet she’s got some fucking boring accountant coming in next.

Jameela And you’re like, “Oh God, I feel so sorry for her that she’s not allowed to talk to other people about this.”

Grace Yes.

Jameela Because she must just be bursting at the seams to tell everyone.

Grace She must just be dying to tell everyone all this gossip she’s getting. Hahaha! Also my therapist like we’re so on a vibe that, like actually in another life we would have been friends. And when I make her laugh, it’s like no feeling I’ve ever had in the world. Like, I love making my therapist laugh.

Jameela That’s so funny.

Grace So I don’t know if it’d be, I think it’s probably a bit inappropriate if your therapist is doing stand up about about their clients.

Jameela Well, there was that famous I, it was in Britain there was a gynecologist who then had, like a 20 year career.

Grace In standup?

Jameela In standup, yeah. And I just felt so

Grace Talking about fanny?

Jameela Yeah, he’s talking about vaginas the whole time.

Grace Wow.

Jameela And like, the misunderstandings about gynecology and what he really sees and what he really thinks. And I was like, this is very dangerous.

Grace Yeah, that’s crazy.

Jameela This is really destructive. And imagine being any one of his clients and he was a, he was an older guy, so he must have been doing it for decades. And, and just wondering like, is that mine?

Grace Is that me?

Jameela Is that my vagina he’s talking about in this instance. Absolutely harrowing. So I’m against and I wonder if that’s happened to this person.

Grace This person

Jameela This person’s therapist

Grace Yeah. 100%

Jameela Must be a standup, and they’re not sure how to feel about it.

Grace And but also it’s like the word ick. It’s like it’s more than an ick because you’re not dating your therapist. It’s actually like inappropriate if your therapist is like also doing stand up. It’s not like, like I once had a friend who was seeing a male therapist. And then one day the male therapist texted her saying, “I’m really sorry. I’m not going to be able to see you anymore because I’ve developed feelings for you, so I don’t think it’s appropriate.” And she was so freaked out because she was like, I’ve told this man- well, I was like, how amazing, like

Jameela What? Someone’s seen your craziest side.

Grace Someone’s seen you in your worst form, and then they’ve been like, “I’m in love with you.”

Jameela You now upset that none of your therapists have declared they love for you?

Grace Yeah, but yeah. But I was like, why has that never happened to me? But but she was really freaked out because she was like, you know, you’re so vulnerable with a therapist. You’re so open. You’re so, like, unguarded. And then to think he just wanted to fuck me is quite weird.

Jameela Yeah because then also, you can’t trust the advice you’ve been given.

Grace Exactly. It’s a strange feeling.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace So not that that’s the same, but I feel like if you think that your therapist is mining your sessions for material, which, by the way, my sessions, that could be a great Edinburgh show. I wouldn’t blame them if they did.

Jameela Thing is, you already turn your sessions into your Edinburgh show.

Grace Hahaha!

Jameela Okay. Someone said, why do I feel bad for not wanting a boyfriend or partner while I’m finishing my degree?

Grace Well you shouldn’t.

Jameela Yeah. You only feel bad because of society.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela There’s nothing wrong with wanting to prioritize. This is something that I’ve become so obsessed with is, and if I talk about it again at home, I think James is going to actually, like, set the house on fire. But executive function, which is like how many, how many decisions our brains can make, how much information our brains can hold and then function at high level. And if you have a relationship, I don’t think we talk enough about how much of your fucking time and attention it takes, because you’re having to constantly contend not just with another person, but compromising for them, wondering if they’re okay, wondering how you come across to them. It’s just like fucking endless juggling. And it’s lovely.

Grace So much brain space.

Jameela So much brain space. It’s so hard. It’s like, I never do as well at work when I’m especially at an early stage of a relationship. This person sounds single, and it’s like the beginning I was I was telling my friend last night that I saw a stand up once compare the beginning of a relationship to just being legal stalkers. Haha!

Grace Haha!

Jameela Well I just happened to be going for a walk in the area where you work, are you around for lunch? You know, just like the way you make yourself available when you

Grace And also like agonizing over like

Jameela Yes. Studying them online.

Grace What you’re going to say and how long you’re going to wait to, like, contact them. This is why I’m single at the moment because since I’ve been fully single, I’ve gotten so much more work done.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace So I’m just like, I’m just going to do this for a bit longer. And then when I feel a bit less busy, then I’ll be like, okay, maybe I’ll have some time now to do that because it is so exhausting.

Jameela It’s exhausting.

Grace Trying to get someone to fall in love with you.

Jameela But it’s also just to maintain and to build and it’s it’s this funny thing where it doesn’t, you know, Esther Perel was recently talking about the fact that you shouldn’t wait until you’ve dealt with all of your possible emotional or mental health problems. Obviously, the big ones try to resolve before you get into a relationship, but you can’t wait to be sort of quote unquote perfect before you enter a relationshipn because a relationship’s just going to surface shit that you could never have found

Grace Yeah, and there’s, you might

Jameela Without being in a relationship.

Grace Yeah, exactly.

Jameela So just jump in and then do your best and be active, you know, when it comes to therapy or whatever or healing once you start. And so I think this person is, is feeling an instinct that society overrides sometimes. You have an instinct that you really want to achieve this thing. I don’t think it should go on for so long that you’re like, “I can’t have a career if I’m in a relationship.”

Grace No, I also think you should

Jameela There’s balance. But a huge task, like finishing exams is important.

Grace But also, you should never feel bad for wanting to be single.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace I think that’s the thing that I felt so much like, again, talking about my 20s, so much of my, like early 20s was just me being like, I need to be in a relationship. Being in a relationship, that ending, I need to be in another relationship. Like feeling like I don’t really have an identity unless I had a boyfriend. And then in the last couple of years, having become so deeply like when I’m alone, it being like the happiest periods of my life, but not, I don’t feel shame about that. I always thought turning 30 single would make me really depressed, but now I’m here. I’m like, “Oh my God, I’m so happy. Like I haven’t got, I’m not in an unhealthy relationship. I haven’t got someone who’s like, making me feel shit or like stressing me out.” And that’s and I know I will meet someone. I’m not stressed about that, but it’s more like being content single is something that I don’t feel like we celebrate or enough.

Jameela No, and also conversely, if you are someone who wants a boyfriend, you’re not weak.

Grace No.

Jameela And you’re not unfocused. It’s just okay to want whatever you want. I think the worrying sign is when we feel guilty for wanting whatever we want.

Grace Yeah, exactly.

Jameela We feel guilty for having, like, a sense of agency and decisiveness. You should never feel bad. Your instincts and your body, while not always perfectly accurate, generally know what’s best for you. And I do think that social media and media and the chaos of the world and the news and everything draws us away from our instincts, and I don’t think women are, in particular women who have such amazing and strong instincts, I think we are constantly encouraged to override them, which is why I think we do things to our bodies in order to be thin or to, we withstand pain. We put ourselves in dangerous situations, sometimes as an emotionally dangerous situations with relationships. We we have been conditioned since we were younger and like smile even when you don’t feel like smiling. Hug someone that you don’t want to hug. Don’t be unfriendly, just cover everything up. We have been so encouraged from the beginning of our developmental years to override our instincts, and the most empowering thing you can do is get back to that voice because that is a smarter voice than any magazine, any public, you know, whatever influencer or figure. And something that I think is the main is the main win for me of getting older.

Jameela Yeah, yeah. I think that’s also that’s kind of like how I feel because like, this is the thing I think do whatever you want to do, but so much of my life I’ve been made to feel like being single is really shameful. And even now people will be like, so are you seeing anyone? Like whenever I’ll meet up with someone they’ll be like, “So are you seeing anyone?” I’m like, how boring. That’s such a boring thing for me now because I’m like, I feel reduced to like the fact that I am or am not dating someone. And I think it’s more like now I can say out loud, I don’t care if someone says that. Whereas before I would internalize that so much and see that as like a societal shame.

Jameela My TikTok is very targeting of me with content about the dangers of women being single and and how like, this is actually a bad thing and women don’t know what they want. And and actually everyone’s going to end up alone and this, that and the other and cat lady.

Grace So you’re on your own Andrew Tate algorithm, is that what you’re saying?

Jameela Yeah, I love incels.

Grace Yeah. No, I know you do.

Jameela No, but I’m being I’m being targeted at

Grace Yeah.

Jameela A certain age with this content and like, trad wife content and all of this other stuff.

Grace That is because we also got really obsessed with like, watching tradwives.

Grace I think that’s what it is.

Grace So I think the algorithm’s like. That is because we were like obsessively sharing tradwife stuff between each other for ages.

Jameela Hahaha!

Grace So your algorithm is tradwife.

Jameela I’m now on like, yeah, I’m now on misogyny-tok.

Grace Yeah literally like “Being single, you’re going to die.”

Jameela But I think that because it’s because so many women are wising up to the fact that actually you’re not. It’s this, this new thing I’ve seen people saying is like when men are like, “Who am I competing with to get you?” It’s like “You’re not competing with another man to get me. You’re competing with me because my treatment of myself is so good and I’m so happy on my own.”

Grace I love that.

Jameela I think it’s fantastic. I don’t worry for those women at all. I think it just means that we’re setting the bar higher, and people are just going to have to meet that bar, and I think that’s better for everyone.

Grace Yes, there are things obviously I do not agree with Andrew Tate at all. And like my whole life, I’m just being trolled by all of his fans. But I think we have to find ways to sort of come to some union with them on things because they are so much of the population right now, like being single the amount of times that I’ve gone on dates with people and then realized after 20 minutes that they are an Andrew Tate fan. They’re everywhere. They’re lurking among us. They are. They really are. I’ve got this joke that’s like, you know the phrase in London, you’re never further than six feet away from a rat?

Jameela Yeah.

Grace I now say in London, you’re never further than six swipes away from an Andrew Tate fan because they are like everywhere. I told that story about that guy.

Jameela Yeah, totally. And by the way, that doesn’t come from nowhere, like Caitlin Moran was on this podcast talking about the fact that she thinks the, the way that like the sort of the rise of the feminist rage in the MeToo movement led to a lot of us going like, “Men are trash and dump him and fuck like, fuck man. And I just like the most embarrassing thing about me is that I’m attracted to men.” And there was a lot of actual misandry where we went from feminism and anti misogyny into full misandry. And and even though it’s painful, I think millennial men still remembered a time where women and men had really just very little equality. Whereas these boys are growing up now where they’re looking at all these like female billionaires and women being very empowered in lots of equal roles. We don’t have perfect equity, but we’re the furthest that we’ve ever been there. Like, okay, so women seem pretty okay and men are trash, so those are the kids who are ripe.

Grace Yeah, and what they see is women being like, “I’m not going to be with a man who’s not six foot one,” like, you know, setting

Jameela Yeah.

Grace All these like crazy standards. Which will then anger them. Yeah.

Jameela Totally, totally. So they’ve grown up just in misandry and so they don’t have a reference point for why people are so fucking angry, and they are the ones who are ripe to be conditioned.

Grace Totally.

Jameela Because of course, they don’t feel safe with us because we’re not making them feel safe. We’re like you, you are born inherently evil because you’re a man. So when that happens, those boys are able to be so easily indoctrinated against women because they don’t have the context. And if we are more aware of that, we can realize that we need we need to rein it in a little bit.

Grace I agree.

Jameela And either continue to, yeah, I agree. Yeah. About what I’m.

Grace That’s kind of what I’m saying about what I’m trying to do in my show is like, in those bits. I really don’t want it to be something that like is going to because I, you know, James came to see me perform at this like, comedy club in London, and I’ve been writing a lot of this show in comedy clubs in London, where it’s a lot of men in the audience, because my audience is quite female. And it’s been so interesting this bit I’m writing, I’ve worked on this like ten minute set about Andrew Tate and like incel culture. And it’s so interesting that when I bring his name up, a few men will get really prickly and sort of like ready to fight me.

Jameela Like, here we go.

Grace Ready to heckle me. And they’re all quite drunk at these clubs, you know, it’s like late nights on Thursdays and Fridays. But then when I start going in on what I’m saying, they all calm down because it’s like I’m trying to do it in a way that’s like, I, what I’m saying is what I feel is it’s absolutely ridiculous. And I would never date someone who’s an Andrew Tate fan. But then I argue my reasons for it in a way that’s not isolating to them, but also quite self-deprecating to me as well. And I think it’s just about toeing the line. I mean, maybe this sounds bad because I feel like this will anger women, but it’s sometimes about toeing the line so that you don’t alienate that huge part of the population.

Jameela Yeah, but that’s science. There’s science behind that, which is that if you say something that triggers someone, of course, in theory they should be able to just take that and handle that and understand your rage and pain and context. But their brain is built to if they feel shame or they feel judgment or they feel labeled in any way that feels aggressive, then their defenses just come up and there’s nothing they can do. We think of that as a moral choice. Their brain is built to protect that person. That person’s brain does not give a shit about you. They are there just to protect that person. And so then like adrenaline and cortisol go bursting through this person. They can’t think straight anymore and they can’t hear us. Like they’re, every time we say something rude or mean or labeling to anyone we disagree with, it could be a family member, it could be someone from a different group, etc. we shoot up their sense of actual physical threat and danger, and then their blood rushes away from their brain to their muscles and they literally can’t hear us or process the information we’re giving them anymore. So we are getting nowhere by pointing at each other. And we can see that because everything is going fucking backwards and people are so divided. So it’s science. And we look at this as like a weakness or a moral failing. It’s basic science. And now that I’ve understood that, it has massively changed the way that I communicate with everyone.

Grace With everyone, because also since I’ve gotten better at that, because I used to be very combative and I used to, I used to always lose arguments because I would lose my temper and say things that would then like, you know,

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Ruin the whole sort of like process. But now that I’m much calmer in that, and I think that maybe that’s why I now feel this way about like Andrew Tate supporters, like, I, I feel like there’s a way that I want to now, like go on in my career dealing with these things that’s just like a little bit. And maybe that is a result of like when I started doing stand up, I got like quite a lot of scathing reviews of people sort of saying that I was just like male bashing and like kind of.

Jameela Making sweeping statements.

Grace Making and also being very like, quote unquote, easily triggered by things. So maybe I have taken on some of that feedback, which you should never, like, listen to reviews. But it’s made me think about like how I am trying to communicate what I’m saying, and I really want men to come to my shows, and I really want men to like. This show that I’m writing in the moment is actually all for men, like it’s about men to think about certain things. So I want to do that in a way that’s just making them laugh. We’re all, I’m taking the piss out of everyone and

Jameela We can’t, yeah.

Grace No one’s taking themselves too seriously.

Jameela We literally cannot afford to alienate the people whose empathy we need to engage.

Grace Exactly. I think that’s the thing that’s like crucial.

Jameela Mhm. Someone said I always shut down around men and act in a way to satisfy the male gaze. How do I stop? Oh this is, I’ve watched this happen my whole life with so many of my most intelligent and funny, amazing female friends, where they suddenly become this sort of coy, silent, submissive version of themselves and and where that poses a problem, aside from the fact that she’s then repressing herself, is that if that’s not who you actually really are, then after a while, if you do end up in a relationship with that person, the real you is naturally going to fight its way out, and then that person is not at all prepared for or maybe even, God forbid, attracted to that version of you, because you’ve kind of done what a lot of us do at the beginning of a relationship, which is sold this perfect version of yourself that mirrors their desire, and it’s encouraged so much. Do you feel like you change around men?

Grace I don’t think so.

Jameela Okay.

Grace I don’t think so, but I think that’s always I’ve always shamed myself about that because I’m always so myself around men at the beginning in relationships. And then if they reject me, I’m like, “Oh, I wish I’d have, like not shown my full self so early on.” So I’ve always shamed because I’ve always been that way like I, I’ve never flirted with anyone ever.

Jameela Same.

Grace Like, it’s just like, I don’t know how to do it.

Jameela No, I have no idea. I, I think what I did is I used to suppress my desires of how I like to spend time according to whatever they would like to do.

Grace Yes.

Jameela And I think that’s compromise, but it rarely went back my way. And I think when I met James, I was just turning 30, and so I was like, “Not doing that anymore. This is who I am. This is what I enjoy doing.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela And if you’re not willing to compromise, you can just fuck off.” And so he got like the most raw version of every part of my personality. And it was it was a rough start for both of us.

Grace But it’s, what you’re saying, I think is the best advice. Like what this person has to think is you don’t want someone to turn around in six months, and then you’re being yourself. And they’re like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought you were this like, baby voice speaking person.”

Jameela Yeah, because it’s not fair on either of you.

Grace No, it’s misleading. Just, you really have to try and find ways that you can be comfortable, like as yourself around people and men. But I get it, like, it’s like we have been so deeply conditioned to perform for men and like, dress for men.

Jameela Take up less space.

Grace Yeah, and like the way that, you know, even like in our careers, I feel like so much it’s like you’ll get told to just be a bit less than to like, appease men who you’re trying to get work from. And, when I’m around, and that’s something I do sometimes with men is, I think, like, do I feel as good around this man as I do around my best friends? And if the answer is no, then probably that man is not good for me because they’re not making me feel comfortable.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Whereas, like, you should feel like how you feel around your best friends with the man that you’re seeing.

Jameela Yeah and James is my best friend, so that’s why I think I’m able to get there with him. Is that at least I know that whether he rejects me or if he loves me, it’s for who I really am, and so I’ve never had that anxiety. But what this person’s also talking about is the hugely pervasive issue where I think it’s not just about when you’re interested in someone or dating someone, so often there’s been this narrative that goes all the way back to, like Christopher Hitchens, like one of the great sort of philosophers and speakers writing an article in Vanity Fair saying women just aren’t funny. Right? And and he goes into the kind of context of that, but it is a deeply misogynist idea of women that exists, and for years, I sort of didn’t really get it. I didn’t get where it came from because when I would hang out with women, I was hanging out with them on their own. And it was only when we started to integrate,

Grace Yeah, that’s so interesting.

Jameela I started to realize why men perceive women as not that funny or not that opinionated or not as fun to debate because women restrain themselves. And then I started to develop, I was watching this even with like a roommate that I had who was this like, like really, really smart, strong woman, and as soon as a boy would walk into the room, she suddenly sort of speaking in a baby voice and saying that she didn’t know how to use the like, can you show me how to use the inbox? Instead of, like, leaning her head on everything as if she could no longer support her neck if a man was in the room. And this was like a strong woman who’d survived a war and like an actual legit massive war. And she just felt this like it was like a switch. And and I think men, I feel sad often that men don’t get to see the reality of women unless they’re friends with a woman, and that woman doesn’t want to have sex with them so then they get to see how how funny and collaborative and enjoyable female company can be. And I went to this party, I think I was telling you about this last year, I went to a party that had just a lot of lesbians at it, and I would say it’s 90% lesbians and 10% people who aren’t. And I have never had more fun at a party. I have never had so many stimulating conversations with women that I didn’t know. I have never laughed more or watch more people argue in a really amusing and passionate way. And I left there so almost electrified by how stimulated I was. And I realized that, oh, it’s because these people aren’t seeking the validation of men, that they have just been allowed to become their full selves publicly. And how sad it is that most of us who do, who are conditioned to also desire the approval of men, don’t have that luxury because that training starts at school.

Grace I know, and I think that’s why it’s so important to have really strong female friendships because and at schools, you know, it’s really interesting. I’m like really interested in the difference between like girls going girl schools or girls going to mixed schools like mixed gender schools. I don’t know if it’s a thing in, in America in the way that it is in the UK, but like I went to a girls school in the UK and I’m so, so glad that I did because we really like my friends, we, we really did live in isolation for a bit and we didn’t have to think about like what we felt like around men until we were about 16. And I do, I’m really glad that I got those like formative years without being in the classroom with men.

Jameela Same.

Grace And trying to impress boys. And, you know, I don’t think I would have gotten as good grades had I been in classes with men, with boys, sorry. And I think, like

Jameela I also think you might not have had such a strong sense of self

Grace I really do think a lot of my personality is from my school.

Jameela Cause you have an alarmingly strong sense of self in a great way.

Grace Like my school was, it was just so feminist to its core, and we were all so insane and unhinged and loud like we were the loudest people ever. And we’ve always been so loud since then. So when we started having male friends, none of me and my friends from school were like, scared of like, we would just scream at these boys like we were absolute hyenas. And I think a lot of that was that we had this these like years in incubation of like being supported and being like that if that makes sense.

Jameela Yeah, and I think a big part of the rise in the hatred of women that is always, always like all hatred comes inherently, I think, from fear in my opinion. And I think that there is a fear that men have that because they don’t need to forage for us anymore, they don’t need to protect us in the same way that they once did. And we have houses and locks and mace and UberEats, and you know that now we can even have a baby without them and just buy their seed. So they’re feeling increasingly redundant.

Grace That triggers men so much.

Jameela It triggers men really badly, but that’s because there is a fundamental sense of their biological conditioning. Right? That is saying that this is my purpose and you’ve taken it away from me. And so now I don’t have purpose. And you do see this increase in men’s mental health problems and, and issues where they don’t feel like they have direction in their lives, like they are definitely statistically struggling. And I think part of that is resolvable without women having to lose our independence as in I think all of it is resolvable without women having to lose their independence. But it’s because we don’t, as a society, focus anywhere near enough on men and women just being friends or being colleagues or being collaborators. This idea that there is always sexual tension. I just went on Neil Brennan’s podcast. He’s a really good friend of mine, been friends with him for six years. He’s really close with me and my boyfriend. I’d say closer even to James and I went on his podcast. We had the most normal chat and just because we both said I was like, “Oh, I really love you.” And he was like, “Yeah, oh, I love you too.” And like with no emotion or anything. It’s such a clinical chat about my most mentally ill moments and his most mentally ill moments. And the comment section was just like, “Oh my God, can you feel the sexual tension between these two?” And people being like, “I feel shy just watching this.” And I was like, and it was all men just being like, “Fucking hell, they’re going to fuck. They’re already fucking. Someone should let James Blake know that these two are definitely fucking right now.”

Grace That is so funny.

Jameela I was really stunned by it and I was like, there’s no display here of tension whatsoever between me and Neil, but that is just projected onto it this idea that there’s no way this man and this woman could just have like a friendship where they love each other without wanting to see each other’s genitals. And we don’t have enough stories about that. Even a lot of the, you know, the TV series that are about a man and a woman being friends, eventually they end up fucking together and we don’t hear about like, you know, it’s either two women making a business together or a bunch of men making a business together. We don’t get to see a lot of collaboration that doesn’t involve eventually building a fucking family, and I think that is so destructive to our society.

Grace Well, it also is why then women are so scared of just being nor- because if we had a much more like friendly relationship between men and women, then women wouldn’t feel like this person so nervous when they’re just around a man, not even like a man that they’re with just around men. If we just knew that you could just be, like, calm and relaxed, and I think that

Jameela I see people do it around men that they’re not even attracted to.

Grace Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It’s more like when a man is in the room.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace So what you’re talking about with that party is like, I’m presuming there weren’t many men there.

Jameela No. Almost no straight men.

Grace Yeah, and I think when they’re, when that is so it does really change the vibe because there will always be some women who will be much more conscious of how they look, or even if they don’t fancy this person, there’s something about like a man being there that like, even I thought this a lot in my life, you just want them to validate you in some way. And so I think if we just had a much more like equal footing with that, then it would be much easier for women to just like be out, be around men, be themselves. And then maybe they will get with one of them. Maybe they won’t.

Jameela Yeah, but also then men wouldn’t feel so redundant because they’re not redundant. Men are such a

Grace Great vibes.

Jameela Massive and important part of my life.

Grace Also, like my thing is like, I love the men in my life because they’re all so funny and like, I have so much fun with them. Like the men that I’m friends with, I have so much fun with and like, make me laugh like, so much. Why, why don’t men just think that that purpose should just be to be like, great to be around.

Jameela But it’s not, yeah, exactly.

Grace Intelligent, stimulating people.

Jameela Because they are.

Grace That is a purpose. And that’s all of our purposes.

Jameela Totally, totally. So many of my best friends are men and I find their insight so impactful. I find the ideas we come up with together, as I said, James, even if he is my lover, is also most first and foremost my best friend.

Grace My lover.

Jameela I’m sorry I heard it. I felt it.

Grace I absolutely

Jameela I’m going to go and leave. I’m gonna leave now.

Grace I’m cringing so much.

Jameela I know, I know. I just don’t like partner.

Grace Even if he is my lover.

Jameela My lover. Even if he is my lover.

Grace Even if he is my lover, he’s also my friend. Hahaha!

Jameela I will

Grace Disgusting. You are repulsive.

Jameela I’m going to show myself out, alright? No one will ever hear from me ever again. Sorry, everyone. This is the last ever episode of I Weigh.

Grace I can’t believe you tried to just brush past that as well.

Jameela I’m retiring. I honestly, I started an immediate sweat after I said it.

Grace Even though he is my lover.

Jameela I’m retiring and I’m changing my name. And I’m going to shave my head and leave the country.

Grace I can’t believe that.

Jameela Goodbye, everyone forever.

Grace Goodbye. Haha!

Jameela Fine. But even though we’re in a relationship, he’s still my best friend. And the things that we collaborate on music, we collaborate on ideas and we collaborate on on our friendships even together. It’s it’s we’re building something. And I feel this way with all the boys who also live with me. And I just I so desperately wish that more people could experience this because there are some differences between femininity and masculinity and it, and one person can contain all of those multitudes. But bringing those things together does not have to be a conflict, it can be a lovely collaborative experience. And if we could just do more to make sure that that messaging so that men realize that they are so much more valuable beyond their fucking seed or their muscles, then I think that we would be in a place where we don’t breed so much insecurity in them and where they don’t fear us so much. And it’s annoying to have to coddle anyone, but this is not just coming from them. It’s not just coming from nowhere. It’s coming from like a pervasive constant

Grace But it’s also coming from us as well.

Jameela Media and society and us.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela And so I think it’s just about recognizing that and then figuring out how do we heal the fucking culture because we’re in a mess.

Grace But then maybe in that case, the best advice is have male friends as well.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace Like I think and I think women are also guilty of doing this where like, women don’t have male friends without thinking, “Oh, maybe one day we’re going to get with each other,” you know, like, “Maybe it’ll be like a love story of the ages, that we’ll be friends. Then we’ll end up together.” Like, I still think there’s a part of that that still, like, invades our mind.

Jameela Well, also, sometimes you have the very fair fear that like that if you get with a man, he’s going to then have a problem with or be threatened by your male friendships. And I remember James thinking it was a bit weird that I’m so close to my male friends, and I was like, “They’ve been in my life since I was 19. They’re not going anywhere. Nothing’s ever happened with them up until now, when we were all single. So nothing’s ever gonna happen. That’s just, we just don’t have a pheromonal interest in each other. So I’m not going to throw away this amazing, completely pure thing because you’re worried. So either you leave but they’re staying.” And then he was like fine, fair. It was a fair point. But if in over a decade I haven’t shagged one of them, why would I start now?

Grace Yeah, but also, like, even if you have shagged a friend, then you’re friends with them now, I think it’s good to, like, encourage boyfriends to be because I’ve definitely be in relationships with men where they’ve been really jealous of my male friendships, and I think it’s just good for men to just know that, like, they’re not allowed to be possessive of you in that way.

Jameela But do you feel, do you not see that that also goes the other way, where we see our female friends have a real big problem with their boyfriends having loads of girlfriends or an ex-girlfriend that they’re still close to.

Grace Totally, but again that’s that’s not that’s such a problem. Like, this is what this is why like we’re in this situation because it’s again, like, that’s what I was saying before of like, I don’t think women enough have male friends. And so then they don’t understand that, like, their boyfriend can have a best friend who’s a woman that they don’t want to get with.

Jameela Mhm.

Grace Because

Jameela But I think if two people have gotten with each other before, that does add an extra layer of difficulty.

Grace It, 100%.

Jameela To be fair to everyone

Grace 100%. No, no, I’m agreeing with that, but also having gone through that multiple times and understood that, like it’s really not that deep if you had sex with someone six years ago and it was shit and you never wanted to think about it again.

Jameela Yeah.

Grace But you’re still friends with them because you went to school with them like that that should be fine, you know? But I get that there’s so many different circumstances where, like, this is confusing and complicated. But I do think that just in general, aside from, like having had sex with someone 100%, I agree that I think that women also we permeate this idea that like, men can’t be friends with women and that we’re jealous of our boyfriends having female friends. And actually, it’s amazing if your boyfriend has female friends that they just like, have a lovely, like really

Jameela Also then he’s got people in his ear who understand you better.

Grace Exactly. It works.

Grace And can give him a really advice and vice versa. I think that it prepares us for each other. I feel like my male friends, having explained the male experience to me, massively helped me understand james, massively helped me understand the experience and what they’ve grown up with and the amount of shit they have to like, undo and uncondition themselves from what they learned on the internet. I feel so much empathy and I think that empathy can only come from exposure. So, and James didn’t have female friends when he first met me, and I think had only ever seen, especially cause he’s a famous man, had only seen the most submissive hidden version of women like girls were just not lairy around him because it’s like, “Oh my God, this powerful man who is like desirable” because he’s, you know, got a successful career, and so and a lot of the women that he saw were fans, so they really weren’t being themselves around him. And then he met my friends and they’re all very boisterous, confident, funny, smart women. He was like, “Great, I’m on board with this.” And now, for example, you are separately of me, best friends with James, and that’s lovely. And you guys hang out on your own and like, even went to, like, fuckin Spain or something together. And it’s just, and it’s such a joy.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela It’s such a joy that I know that there’s someone who has such a sound mind, who’s so nurturing, who fulfills that sensitive part of all men, who he’s got with him. It just doesn’t, it doesn’t occur to me.

Grace But also my relationship with him is so useful for me in terms of my relationships with men, because he really helps me figure out, like, what’s going on with situations that I’m in with men.

Jameela 100%.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela How’s life and dating since the 28 dates podcast? Which everyone should go and listen to it. It’s absolutely amazing.

Grace You know what, I haven’t really dated that much have I? So life is good. Dating, I had a bit of a shit storm towards the end of last year with a mans, and I’ve just felt a bit, jaded.

Jameela Actually jaded.

Grace Actually jaded. That’s an appropriate use of the word jaded, but great for my work. And then I don’t know I meant to actually be going on a date with a guy tonight. That guy that I met on the hike, I got chatted up on a hike.

Jameela And then they sat together at the top of a hill.

Grace And then we went on a hike together. And then we sat at the top of Runyon Canyon and just like looking out at the view, just like talking. And I didn’t want to say that I knew I was burning because it was like it was like peak sun at the top of Runyon Canyon.

Jameela But it’s such a Hollywood meet-cute.

Grace Yeah, but I didn’t want to interrupt it by being like, “I have to go because I have no sunscreen on my back.”

Jameela Because I’m developing melonoma.

Grace Yeah literally like, I’m burning. I could feel that I was burning, so I stayed there for sort of as long as possible. But then I agreed that I was going to go for a drink with him this evening, so maybe I’ll go, I don’t know, I’ll see how I feel later.

Jameela Well, make sure to come back and report whenever you can.

Grace Haha!

Jameela Haha!

Grace Yeah.

Jameela And for anyone who doesn’t know, Grace went on 28 dates in 28 days, right?

Grace Yes.

Jameela And recorded all of them.

Grace Really quickly on that, I thought it was so cool that that man just came up to me and spoke to me. And when I told like Jam, I told James, and he was like, “What?” And I was like, I know it’s quite crazy, isn’t it? Because that never happens, especially in in London if it happened I’d be like, “You are a serial killer. Do not talk to me.”

Jameela Why?

Grace Because I guess there’s, like, such a stigma of doing that now, but because this guy was buff, well-dressed, seemed really nice. I was like, this is amazing. I wish this happened to me every day, but it’s just that most of the time they’re not like, they’re kind of creepy.

Jameela I don’t know, I always I unless someone the initial moment in which someone comes over and expresses a sort of interest to me, as long as it’s done respectfully, regardless of whatever they are like or their looks, I always feel like that’s flattering. And then it just kind of very quickly dissolves into annoyance or terror for my life.

Grace Yes.

Jameela If they then don’t leave upon the no. But I do really appreciate this like intense pressure that is like silently upon men. That is also, by the way, partially bred by the fact that men are taught to feel afraid of a woman who approaches them and see her as desperate and thirsty.

Grace Yeah. That’s one,

Jameela Like we’re again, we’re fucked in these two ways.

Jameela That’s one of the things in the how do you identify if a woman’s low value like sort of Andrew Tate culture is that if a woman is available to meet you when you ask her to meet you, she’s low value.

Jameela What?

Grace Yeah. So one of their things is like, if she is always around when you say, like, “What are you up to tonight?” If she’s always around, she’s low value because she’s making herself too available for you.

Jameela But she shouldn’t be avail, she shouldn’t be unavailable while going on dates with other men.

Grace Well, exactly.

Jameela Cause then she’s also low value.

Grace So she should be trying to show you

Jameela So where she be?

Grace Well exactly. She’s just in a limbo I think. She’s nowhere, basically.

Jameela Right.

Grace Because they don’t she shouldn’t be getting with other people. No, because that makes her low value. If she is, if she always replies to your texts quickly and if she’s like, basically, if she’s a good communicator, she’s low value. Yeah.

Jameela That’s so interesting.

Grace It’s so interesting cause it’s like that thing

Jameela God, we’re just torturing each other.

Grace 100%.

Jameela We’re all just torturing each other. We’re putting all this pressure on men to have to go and be the ones who have to pursue, and then that’s really that’s loads of pressure for them. And then post MeToo, that’s become a very complex and bizarre gray area dynamic, where they’re then also afraid of their own approach, which I can understand people being like, “Just fucking don’t be a rapist, don’t be a pervert.”

Grace Yeah.

Jameela But I think there is this like tension now.

Grace Totally.

Jameela So they’re afraid to do it

Grace And they’re afraid of afraid of rejection as well

Jameela And women are afraid and they’re afraid of rejection because we have no teaching about rejection.

Grace No, and rejection in that form is quite raw. Like if you go up to someone like in the middle of the day, like it’s a

Jameela Yeah, and some people can be unkind in the way that they reject because they’re just like, I should be able to walk through the supermarket and get a sandwich and not be fucking bothered. So I understand what everyone’s experience is but if we keep having these fucking rules that drive everyone mad, we’re just going to keep going round around in circles and then push like pushing each other further and further apart.

Grace Because also, by the way, and this isn’t in these questions, but one of the things I get asked the most, especially since I did that dating podcast, is like, I don’t want to be on dating apps. I’m sick of them. Everyone is so fatigued of dating apps. They’ve been around for too long. It’s like the novelty is just worn off in such an extreme way. How do I meet people? And I do think bringing back the idea that you should be allowed to just go and say to someone, “Oh, hey, like, I like your style,” and then you can just get a vibe of like, are they into having a conversation with me? If they’re not, you walk away. But I think we should go back to that because that used to be how people would meet, and that’s a nice thing to do.

Jameela I agree, and it’s how you were able to gauge if you even had like a chemistry with someone.

Grace Exactly. That’s the other thing cause online

Jameela So you don’t waste each other’s fucking time.

Grace Yeah, it’s like, how do you know if you’re going to like someone if you’ve just spoken to them for like two days on a dating app, like you just don’t they, they

Jameela There’s no there’s no chemical instinct whatsoever and connection, so I think that that’s really important. I agree and I hope that we can try to I mean, I feel like we’ve really sort of fixed the world today.

Grace No, I know I really do agree.

Jameela You’re all, everyone’s welcome. You know, I, I really feel like we’ve put our, our big brains together. We just fixed it all.

Grace Haha!

Jameela Well done us.

Grace Huge day for women, men

Grace Yeah, yeah. Big day.

Grace Alike.

Jameela All human beings.

Grace Yeah.

Jameela Humanity.

Grace Humanity.

Jameela Humankind.

Grace A huge day for

Jameela God, it’s so nice to know that it’s fixed now.

Grace Yes.

Jameela I can just relax. Haha! Okay. Well, thank you.

Grace Thank you.

Jameela Grace, tell everyone where they can find you on tour and what the tour is called and where they can find tickets for the tour.

Grace Why did you say it like that?

Jameela I don’t know, I panicked, I glitched.

Grace My lover.

Jameela My lover.

Grace My lover. My show is called Grace Campbell is On Heat, and I don’t want to give too much away of what it’s about because I’ll like, it’s still a work in progress, but I’m really excited about it. I think it’s going to be a really fun show that’s also going to make you cry and laugh. And then there might be a cameo from my dog at some point. And it’s, I was doing the Edinburgh Fringe for two and a half weeks, and then I’m going on tour.

Jameela At the beginning of Edinburgh.

Grace At the beginning of August, and then I’m going on tour October, November, December, UK, Europe, London, Hammersmith Apollo and you can get tickets.

Jameela And then you’ll work your way towards the United States.

Grace And then, and then I’m going to bring the show here yeah next year. And then you can buy tickets at disgracecampbell.com.

Jameela Go do it. And you’ve given us some sort of little kind of hints as to what’s coming in this show. It sounds fucking brilliant. I can’t wait to see it.

Grace You’ll love it.

Jameela And thank you for coming today. You are a delight.

Grace So are you.

Jameela Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan, Kimmie Gregory, and Amelia Chappelow. And the beautiful music that you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. And if you haven’t already, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show. It’s such a great way to show your support and helps me out massively. And lastly, at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. Please email us a voice recording sharing what you weigh at iweighpodcast@gmail.com.