EP. 195 — Best Friends Presents: Best Friends with Jacob Wysocki

Sasheer: Hi friends. We are celebrating 200 episodes by doing a whole episode where we look back at our favorite moments of the show. And to do that, we need a little help from you. We want to hear your favorite moments from Best Friends. Was it when we wondered about chickens, when we gushed over the TV show You with Penn Badgley, when we decided to name Nicole’s future child Deuteronomy, or any other moment of the show? Leave us a voicemail at 424-645-7003. Or you can email us at nicoleandsasheer@gmail.com. And share with us what your favorite moment has been and why. And if you say what episode it is or even give a timestamp, Kimmie-on-the-keys will be so grateful and will love you forever. We can’t wait to hear from you and listen on the show.

Nicole: Hey, everyone. This week we are releasing another great episode of Best Friends’ Friends. This time it’s our good friend, Jacob Wysocki. I love Jacob so much. I worked with him for two years. And Loosely Exactly Nicole, which was a show on MTV that eight people watched, but we did get two seasons. Honestly, I’m pretty proud of it, and it still holds up. He’s still one of the funniest people I know. So have a listen. We’ll be back very soon with classic Best Friends episodes. But in the meantime, enjoy our conversation with Jacob. This is an episode of Best Friends’ Friends.

Sasheer: Yeah. Where we talk to our friends, in addition to the talking to each other we do all the time.

Nicole: We decided to add a third, like most couples do when it’s getting stale. Our guest today–you know him from Unfriended, Loosely Exactly Nicole, Huge on ABC Family. It’s Jacob Wysocki!

Jacob: Hello. You picked the true cream of the crop of the old IMDb credits there.

Nicole: Well, Unfriended–wasn’t that a whole movie shot on Zoom?

Jacob: At the time Skype was the superior, but yes.

Nicole: So we’re ahead of time.

Jacob: Absolutely. I’m a trendsetter. I knew the trends.

Sasheer: We were saying now someone will probably make a movie on Zoom.

Jacob: It’s only a matter of time. It’s only a matter of time. The way in which people are getting creative is good and really bad.

Sasheer: Yeah. I agree. A lot of people are, like, doing some cool stuff that is very funny and I’m like, “Wow. Just give them some time, and they’re doing cool stuff.” And people are doing, like, really bad things.

Jacob: Yeah, you’re like, “Oh, you just needed, like, four to five extra hours every day to, like, focus and be creative.” And then other times you’re like, “You need a hobby. You need to fill those four to five hours.”

Nicole: Yeah. I have not been creative. I have truly not done a thing. I’ve just been not smoking a lot of weed. But I’ve got this, like, weed oil that I’ve just been putting under my tongue and having the time of my life at night. It’s such a long delay.

Sasheer: Your screen was frozen for a while. I couldn’t even see you moving. And it was so slow. I was like, “Is she high right now? What’s happening?”

Nicole: No, I’m not high right now.

Jacob: Yeah. That’s brave of you to be honest.

Nicole: Thank you. Are you high right now, Jacob Wysocki?

Jacob: Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s 3:00 on a Wednesday. Like, I’ve done all I need to do. I also woke up with a very, very tight lower left back. And I, you know, did some stretches, and I took some Advil and some ibuprofen. And I, you know, wasn’t really feeling any relief, so I had to get into it… for the medicine.

Nicole: Yes. The medicinal purposes.

Jacob: This was a medicinal high. I’m not tripping. I’m not grooving to tunes. I’m purely just using it for my body. I’m just therapeuticizing myself.

Nicole: “I’m not grooving to tunes.”

Sasheer: I have mushrooms in my home.

Nicole: Take them.

Sasheer: Well, my man and I were like, “Oh, one of these days we should.” But I don’t know if we’re going to go somewhere or if we’re just going to sit in our living room. I want to go somewhere, but I also don’t want to…

Jacob: Break the rules?

Sasheer: I don’t want to break the rules. There also aren’t public park spaces that we can be in where I want to feel safe. Like, we’re near Echo Lake, but I don’t want to be tripping there. It’s dirty.

Jacob: Yeah, that’s a dirty place.

Nicole: Honestly, I say just trip in your living room. I did that a couple nights ago, and I had a great time. My trees were talking to me. They were trying to hug me, and I kept laughing, being like, “You can’t hug me. You’re a tree.” I stared at my wall.

Jacob: Were you on shrooms?

Nicole: Yes! No, this is me sober. I was like, “Trees don’t hug!” No, I took some shrooms and had a great time.

Jacob: I was just like, “What is this weed oil? Where can I get this weed oil?”

Nicole: No, this is shrooms.

Jacob: Yeah, I think if you want to do it, you kind of have to prepare that it’s got to be an inside trip. Maybe with– Oh, I’m so sorry. How embarrassing.

Nicole: That’s your ringtone?

Jacob: Yeah. I don’t care about that stuff.

Sasheer: It was a true ring?

Nicole: Yeah, that’s wild.

Jacob: Look, can we drop it? What’s the problem? Leave me alone.

Nicole: Wait. Sasheer, what’s your ringtone?

Sasheer: Oh, I guess the ring on my phone is a phone ring–like, a “Ring, ring.” But my text is from the jungle. It’s like, “Doo doo doo doo doo.”

Jacob: I was going to say, “Like, a growl?”

Sasheer: No, it’s like jungle drums or something like that. I can’t remember what it’s called.

Nicole: No, I know what it is. Hold on. Let me find it.

Sasheer: Please.

Nicole: Wait. Is it called Drums?

Sasheer: Maybe. I can’t remember exactly.

Jacob: Let’s hit the archive.

Nicole: I’m trying!

Sasheer: I don’t know if I can pull it up on my phone while I’m recording. Probably not.

Nicole: Well, look at it, tell me what it’s called, and I’ll play it. Here’s my ringtone.

Jacob: A tornado sound?

Sasheer: It doesn’t sound great on Zoom.

Nicole: Oh, it doesn’t? Oh. Dang. It’s Cher.

Jacob: I don’t know about this one, Nicole.

Nicole: You don’t like Cher? And then my text message sound is “Livin’ La Vida Loca.” Okay. What did I miss? I was gone for ten full minutes, restarting my fucking modem.

Sasheer: We’re talking about birthdays and how they may have to be inside because all we’re doing is inside. You know, mine’s coming up.

Nicole: I know because it’s sequential. It’s the number of the month. The day is your birthday that comes right after the number of the month. And that’s how I remember.

Sasheer: Yeah!

Jacob: What? Wait, what?

Sasheer: You can say it.

Nicole: Oh, you want the people to know your birthday? It’s May 6th. 05/06.

Sasheer: Yes.

Jacob: Oh. I see.

Nicole: Yes. When’s your birthday?

Jacob: June 20.

Nicole: That’s not sequential. That’s one number and then a whole gap in numbers to get to 20.

Jacob: Just about 14, if I’m not mistaken.

Nicole: Yes!

Jacob: Fully taking the time to count.

Nicole: I totally was. I did. I took the time. You are correct. That is good math. 14.

Jacob: My buddy had his birthday over quarantine. And he just did a 12 hour Zoom call.

Nicole: No!

Jacob: He had certain things like, “At this time we’re doing this, and at this time we’re doing this. But just kind of, like, bop in, bop out. Say, ‘Hey.’ Leave.” And that was the vibe?

Nicole: I guess that’s good rather than, like, a whole bunch of people all together. I don’t know. Who knows anymore?

Sasheer: Yeah, I think it should be like office hours, where you’re like, “From, you know, 5:00 to 5:30, I’ll talk to my college friends. From 5:30 to 6:00, I’ll talk to my comedy friends. You know, talk to my family from 6:00 to 7:00.” Just so it’s not, like, a cacophony of people or just a bunch of people on mute, who are like, “I don’t know how to jump in there ’cause I don’t know these people.” But you know, people are figuring it out.

Jacob: Yeah, it’s like everybody’s at an improv jam for the first time.

Nicole: Are you guys going to have Zoom birthdays if we’re still under quarantine in May and in June?

Sasheer: I don’t think so.

Jacob: I’ve been hosting Zoom karaoke every Friday.

Sasheer: Is this true?

Jacob: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please. You guys should come. It’s really cool. You, like, have Zoom, and then there’s, like, a thing on… You have another browser that links up YouTube tracks so you can all hear the music at the same time.

Nicole: How did you figure that out?

Jacob: I just Googled, like, “Can I do karaoke over Zoom?” And somebody in a Reddit thread was like, “I’ve been having the best time doing remote karaoke.” I just stole it. And now I do it every week.

Sasheer: And it’s like everyone sings at the same time, or is everyone on mute, one person is singing, and everyone’s, like, jamming out to it?

Jacob: Exactly. It’s everybody’s on mute. If you’re not singing, you’re muted. And then they sing. And I’ve created a log in the chat where it’s like each number means something. And so, people spam the chat where it’s like 1 is for support because you can’t clap or anything. So, 1 is, like, how you clap. 8 is take a shot. 9 is if somebody is playing with a real instrument. Like, we’ve orchestrated this weird language within it that lets you feel like you’re participating. And then when people aren’t singing, people are chatting.

Sasheer: That’s cool.

Jacob: And then I just play a DJ man with a fake mustache.

Nicole: You put on a fake mustache over your mustache?

Jacob: Yeah, it’s something to do. It’s a whole character. It’s a whole character that I’m doing. He’s deejaying from space. His name is Large Jake. He’s in a spaceship. He’s trying to get away from COVID, so he’s orbiting space.

Nicole: This guy makes so much sense. I love it. But why does he keep coming back if he’s trying to avoid Corona?

Jacob: He’s beaming himself from space. He’s in his spaceship.

Nicole: Oh, okay. I thought he was, like, coming–

Jacob: I don’t want to talk about this! I don’t want to have to do a character beat sheet on, like, a guy I do for fun. It’s not odd. I feel like I’m trying to explain, like, why a character would work.

Nicole: I’m sorry. I was just trying to understand your character’s motivations.

Jacob: I promise. I promise. You put me in the wig, and you put me in front of the audience, they’ll laugh. Who cares? I’m funny.

Nicole: All right. You’re right. You are. You’re very funny. I want to come to karaoke.

Jacob: We’re doing it Friday, 8:30. I’ll send you guys all the info.

Sasheer: Yeah, please.

Nicole: All right. What a treat. Something to look forward to.

Jacob: That’s what it is for me. I have this thing that I do, and it feels normal.

Sasheer: Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob: But I imagine I’ll do something like that for my birthday if I have to be here. Something easy and short.

Nicole: Well, I hope to not be in quarantine for my birthday because my birthday is all the way in August.

Sasheer: Yeah. That’d be a long time for all of us to be inside.

Nicole: Yeah, it’s April now.

Jacob: It could happen. I think we need to mentally prepare for it. I think it’s best for everybody’s mental health to just go worst case scenario and be pleasantly surprised when it’s like, “Oh, it’s June 10th! We’re out, baby!”

Nicole: You know what?

Jacob: Just be like, “We’re here till November.”

Sasheer: Did you say, “You know what,” Nicole?

Nicole: Yeah, it’s just there’s this delay. It’s really hard. I said, “You know what?” And then no one heard me. And then I stopped talking because I was like, “They’re not going to hear me say, ‘You know what,’ for a while.” And then I forgot what I was trying to say ’cause I started thinking too hard.

Sasheer: Should we maybe answer some questions?

Nicole: Yeah, let’s do that since the conversation is fucking impossible on Zoom.

Sasheer: All right. Jacob, we have people call in or email friendship questions.

Jacob: Great.

Sasheer: So, we’ll just, like, go through a few and answer to the best of our ability.

Jacob: Sounds awesome.

Caller #1: Hello. Um, so I have this friend, and we’ve known each other for about eight years. We’ve been really good friends, and we have some really similar interests. Like, she’s very spiritual. She’s an amazing person. And we both share an interest in travel. We went to Montreal a couple of years ago. We were only there for three days, and we ended up getting into this, like, really crazy fight–actually a number of them. And anyway, when we got back, we didn’t end up speaking for two months, and I just feel like it kind of put a block in our friendship a little bit. But anyway, we ended up reconnecting and becoming friends again. I really love her. She’s, like, an amazing person. But now we are planning a trip to Mexico, where we’re going to backpack and stay in hostels and stuff like that. And we’re going to be gone for two months, which is a lot longer than three days. So, I just am fearful, I guess, of arguments and stuff like that. We both have very different fighting styles or arguing styles. She’s a lot more confrontational and kind of attacks my personality when we fight, whereas I’m more like, “Let’s just discuss the issue.” So, I don’t know how we’re going to fare for two months in Mexico, just being alone with each other. But I guess I just kind of wanted some advice on how to maybe set boundaries or–I don’t know–kind of a healthy way to have communication between the two of us so that if we need space, we can communicate that to the other person and get the space that we need while we’re on the trip, but also still be a team, work together, and make sure that we survive two months together in Mexico. But yeah, I hope our friendship lasts after this because I mean, yeah, three days in Montreal equals a few months of no contact between the two of us. And yeah, I’m just a little worried. Anyway, love the podcast. You guys are awesome. Thanks. Bye.

Nicole: Ooh, boy. Okay.

Jacob: I want to just clarify something. We’re, like, actually trying to help?

Sasheer: Yes.

Jacob: Okay.

Nicole: Okay, but you not trying to help–what would you say?

Jacob: If I’m not being helpful–if I’m, like, not actually answering his question but taking in the data–I don’t know if you guys are friends just, like, based on the linguistics of the conversation where he’s like, “We have a lot in common. One thing. She’s amazing. And we travel.” It’s just not very explicit–not very passionate–just sort of like, “I know this person. And we have different argument styles.” I don’t know. All that stuff just makes you feel like, “What’s the actual connection here?”

Sasheer: Well, maybe they’re not that close. Maybe they are friends and they’re trying to be closer. This new travel venture for them might be rough. But also traveling is hard in general with people–with a family member, with your best friend, with your significant other. People just have different traveling styles in general and may not be the same person that you see day to day at home in a different country. So that’s going to be rough regardless. Kudos for trying to travel again after having a rough time in Montreal for two days. I don’t know if I would have jumped to two months, but you know, who knows? Could be good. Could be bad. Don’t know. But at least you’re aware of it. And I definitely think communication would help–maybe even talking before you leave, like, “Hey, just so we don’t run into what happened in Montreal…” Because I wonder if they even talked about what happened in Montreal. If they did, hopefully–if they’re both aware of, like, “We didn’t have a good time in Montreal”–hopefully you could be comfortable enough to bring up and be like, “Look, I don’t want another one of these. Can we talk about what happened and see what we can do for the next two months to not run into a situation where we’re not talking to each other, being passive aggressive, or arguing over little things, and we’re just trying to have fun?” I think it could be helpful.

Nicole: I’m with Jacob. I don’t know if they’re friends because what was it? Two or three days? That’s nothing. I think I could spend two or three days with someone I don’t really like and be fine. You spent two or three days together, and you got into, like, an explosive argument where you didn’t talk for two months? Why would you want to be with that person for two months or whatever? Like, that’s crazy. You didn’t talk for the duration of time that you want to spend together, backpacking. Backpacking is even harder. That’s walking with shit on your back. And you don’t want two types of baggage.

Jacob: Oh-ho.

Nicole: Can I just say that the delay really made the delivery of that joke sad?

Jacob: I will have to say, if we are wrong–if Nicole and I are wrong–Sasheer hit it on the head where it’s like you just have to do that dirty work of being like, “Okay, how do we make it good?” And it’s always awkward to open yourself up like that. But once you do it, the runways there.

Sasheer: Yeah, because even if they aren’t actually good friends, they are still going on this trip. It sounds like tickets are bought. They are going. So, they do have to talk at some point about how to make this comfortable for both of them.

Nicole: Do you think they started the trip and then Corona came? Are they going to have to spend more than two months together?

Sasheer: Yeah. Are they still in Mexico?

Jacob: Oh no.

Sasheer: Yeah, we don’t know when we got this voicemail.

Nicole: Yeah. I want to know what the fight was about, and I want to know when this trip was going to happen.

Sasheer: Yeah, or hopefully the trip hasn’t happened yet, they can cancel it, and this person who called then can maybe find a friend that they like to go on a different future trip with. Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t take the two-day trip to Montreal as evidence that you can definitely spend two months together.

Nicole: Yeah. That’s crazy. Let’s do another!

Sasheer: Another question. “Hi, Nicole and Sasheer. I’m 22, and I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.” Ooh, International! Okay!

Jacob: Yeah!

Sasheer: “So I have two female–this is important, trust me–best friends. We’ve known each other for 16 years, and we were always very united. We love each other so much, and I know I can trust them. I’ve always been the type of person who likes to study, and I consider myself a little smart. I’m always the first one in a group to get into university, and I’m almost finished with my computer science degree. And here’s the thing. Some months ago, I started feeling a lot like the third wheel in this relationship. My two best friends started hanging out a lot without me, and I know why. I’m a very busy person. I go to Uni full time. I have an internship in a lab. I am in the university’s robotics team. I organized technological events and stuff. Very busy. And I’m not mad that they hang out without me. Actually, I feel the opposite. I like it because I know I don’t have much free time and I want them to have a good time. I didn’t mean to rhyme. But about a month ago they started basically living together. We live in the same neighborhood, but quite far away. Neighborhoods in Brazil are different than the U.S. And I started feeling like an outsider. We don’t hang out anymore. We barely talk. We never see each other anymore. And I hate it because I love them so much and I don’t want to feel like an outsider with them as I feel with my mom and sister.” See, that’s why it was important to say they’re females. How do you avoid that feeling even though it is your own fault because you don’t have the time you wish you could give them? Thanks a lot. Great podcast, girls. Okay, thanks!” Okay. So basically, this person’s very busy at school. Their two friends started hanging out without them, and they feel bad, but not really because they want them to be happy.

Nicole: Yeah. And I think maybe too much time has passed where they’re hanging out without them, and now it’s starting to hurt their feelings. I think you got to talk. You got to just, like, text and, like, be like, “Once a week, we hang out. Every Thursday we go do something. That’s what we do.” I think you just have to not set a rule but be like, “I would love to see you guys once a week. Can we please do cocktails on Thursday?” And you got to talk to them.

Sasheer: Yeah ’cause they don’t know your schedule. You know your schedule. You know, like, “Every Saturday I’m free.” And so, make plans with them, and hopefully they will live up to that.

Nicole: I said Thursday. Was there something wrong with Thursday? Because you changed it to Saturday.

Sasheer: Well, sometimes Thursday is a school night, so maybe they have classes on Friday, you know?

Nicole: Okay. Fair. Jacob, what do you think?

Jacob: Uh, I think if he sets up a time, it’ll make them feel important and wanted. And maybe that’s what’s creating the distance. You know, if somebody is not reaching out, then I think a lot of people assume that they don’t need it, even though people do. I know I can sometimes be that person that’s like, “I’m not going to reach out and if it comes to me, I’ll be super happy. But I don’t want to seem needy or something.” So maybe that’s why they’re not doing it. I also think there’s a version of this where it’s just like, you know, they say you switch friend groups every seven years. Maybe you’re just in a time in your life where you’re separating yourself from people with different likes and different dreams and different wants. And this is just, like, growing pains.

Sasheer: I never heard that.

Nicole: People switch friend groups every seven years?

Jacob: That’s, like, some, you know, kind of basic Psych 101 thing that I feel pretty confident, at least at one point, was good data. But, yeah, I think you end up kind of circulating different friend groups every seven years.

Sasheer: Interesting.

Jacob: Yeah, think about it like elementary school into middle school and then high school into college. Those are probably two very definitive different friend groups in your mind. And then college into your 30s, you know?

Nicole: Sasheer, are you going to get rid of me soon? Has it been seven years?

Sasheer: It’s past seven years. We’re past due.

Jacob: It’s not usually on an individual basis.

Nicole: It’s more of a group?

Jacob: Yeah.

Nicole: Ohhh.

Jacob: Oh no. My God.

Nicole: It came out bigger than I thought it would.

Sasheer: It was very big and piercing.

Nicole: Sorry. Sorry about it. This is the best episode.

Jacob: Happy to be here for this one. But it just might be growing pains. He’s in the best position because these two people seem like on an island together and he’s in, like, a place that’s bountiful with people who have similar interests and similar desires to his. So, you might just have to do that difficult work of making new friends.

Sasheer: Yeah. Make some university friends.

Jacob: Yeah.

Sasheer: Also, they brought up that they’re women. These two friends are women, and also, they feel distant from their sister and mom as well. Is that a thing? Or is that just, like, a reason this person’s like, “Oh, maybe because they’re girls, they don’t wanna hang out with me.”

Nicole: Yeah, Jacob, are you close to your mom? Like, when she is off from her job do you hang out with her?

Jacob: Me and my mom are very close. Yeah. I think we’ve been talking, like, almost every day in quarantine.

Sasheer: Oh, wow.

Jacob: For the most part, yeah.

Nicole: So maybe it’s a Brazilian thing.

Sasheer: Maybe.

Jacob: I think it could just be like they recognize a disproportionate relationship that’s closer to them and this is sort of mimicking it. And so, they’re trying to connect patterns. They don’t necessarily have to be connected. But, you know, we want to create patterns, like, cognitively. So, it could just be, like, “These two things are the same.” Or you just, like, don’t know how to be friends with women or didn’t learn properly. I don’t know, man.

Nicole: I love that you’ve become one with the couch as time has gone on.

Jacob: My back hurts so bad. And I couldn’t sit upright anymore.

Nicole: Do you have a foam roller?

Jacob: I do have a foam roller.

Nicole: Do you roll out your IT band?

Jacob: You mean, like, that hip zone–that sciatica zone? Is that the IT band?

Nicole: From your knee to your butt on the side?

Jacob: Oh. I don’t. I should. I think that’s what’s happening.

Nicole: You should roll that out. And that will definitely help your lower back, I promise you, almost instantly. And then I’ll start hurting again. And you just have to, like, do it every day.

Jacob: Okay. I’ll try it after this. I promise. Ladies, you have my word.

Nicole: I feel like you’re lying to me. I feel like you’re going to close your eyes as soon as we’re done and go right to sleep.

Jacob: Cross my heart. Hope to die.

Sasheer: What do you think? Should we do one more question?

Nicole: Yeah, let’s do one… Uno mas question. Jacob gave me the thumbs down on my accent or the question?

Jacob: Oh, you know.

Nicole: Yes.

Sasheer: The accent.

Nicole: Uno mas question!

Caller #2: Hi, Nicole and Sasheer. I just want to say that I absolutely love the podcast. I’ve been listening to this entire past two months, and it really gets me through my commutes and my days. And I just love you both. And yeah, so what’s my question or–I don’t know–dilemma? Whatever. I have this really good friend. We met working at a store, and it was a few years ago. And we got really close. And he was married and then ended up cheating, going through divorce. And I was kind of there for him through all of it. And he’s the kind of person that would always ask for my advice but then never listened to it, and then kind of come back to me with all the problems that kind of came with his bad decisions. And it came to the point where I was constantly giving him advice, but he never really seemed to be there for me. And then I left for the Peace Corps, and he didn’t really seem to understand, you know, whenever I was feeling overwhelmed or just tired. And he’s just kind of giving his problems. But I still couldn’t handle it. And I would tell him that. I would try to communicate with him. He’s not listening to me. I tried to, you know, see if he could get better at being more receptive to maybe my life and what I was going through at the time. But he really didn’t. And it kind of just started making me really angry to the point where I just stopped answering him. I pretty much ghosted him if you will. And I’m not sure if, you know, that was really bitchy of me or if I was right to kind of just get this person, you know, out of my life who was causing a lot of stress when I was already in a pretty stressful time. So, yeah, I’d love your feedback on if maybe–I don’t know–I’ve made the right choice or if maybe I should talk to him. He calls me at least once a month to try to talk to me, but I just ignore it. He never texts me at a good time, and I honestly just don’t really want to talk to him. So, yeah, again, I love you guys so much and, you know, keep doing what you’re doing. Thank you. Bye.

Sasheer: Okay, well… This is hard because we don’t really know what she said to communicate that she felt like he wasn’t listening to her if that makes sense. But I mean, if you did try to communicate that these conversations you were having were unbalanced and this person wasn’t listening, then they’re not being a really good friend, it is unbalanced, and that does suck. But I learned in therapy–and I feel like, Nicole, I heard you say this too–you got to operate from I statements like, “I feel unheard when you only talk about your situation,” or “I feel neglected when you’re not asking me how…” As opposed to, “You’re not listening to me, you’re not doing this, you’re being bad,” etc., etc. Maybe he couldn’t hear that. Also, a divorce is a really rough thing to go through as well. So maybe he really didn’t have the capacity to actually ask you anything, which is unfortunate. But yeah, he may not have been able to see other people in the situation. I don’t know. If you did explain it as much as you could, it doesn’t make you feel good when you guys talk, and you don’t care to reunite the friendship, then you don’t have to answer this person’s call. But if you do care, then maybe it’s worth having a conversation.

Jacob: I think that’s very fair.

Nicole: Yeah, I feel like they fixed it. Like, you don’t want to talk to this person? You don’t talk to this person. But if you do want to fix it, I think you’re correct with I-statements.

Jacob: Yeah. I don’t know. Observe the person you’re talking to. I don’t want to judge anybody, and I don’t want to create blanket statements for behavior. But typically, when somebody cheats in a relationship, there’s either a lack of communication or somebody is choosing to be selfish. And both of those things are traits that sound like what she’s experiencing is a selfish person who’s poor at communicating. So, I think you have to, like, evaluate that individual and see if that’s something that they can, like, grow into being a better version of or if that’s the type of person they are, they’re a grown-ass person, and they’re not really going to change.

Sasheer: Yeah. And you can change.

Nicole: That’s very insightful.

Sasheer: Yeah. Jacob, did you say you studied psychology? Because I do feel like sometimes, I’m in a class when you talk. In a good way.

Jacob: Well, no, I didn’t. No, I dropped out of college.

Sasheer: Wow.

Nicole: Hell, yeah, dude. Who needs a degree?

Jacob: Street smart.

Sasheer: But, yeah, if you do have a desire to keep this person in your life, they don’t have to be as close as they used to. They can be like, “All right, this is not a person I go to when I need to get things off my chest or vent about something. This is my very chill surface brunch buddy or whatever the thing is. We don’t have to be–you know–‘this is my deep dive friend.’” You can go somewhere else for that if that is not what your friend’s giving you. And that doesn’t even necessarily need to be a conversation. You can just show this person through the way you communicate with them that “I’m done. You know, we don’t have to really get into it. We can chit chat, catch up. And then I will see you later, bro ’cause I got to have a deep conversation with this friend who actually listened to me.”

Nicole: Yes.

Sasheer: Yeah. I hope it works out.

Jacob: Good luck. Godspeed.

Nicole: Yeah. Good luck. Godspeed. May the force be with you. Okay, let’s do one more question!

Sasheer: “Hello, Nicole and Sasheer! I had a question of friendship ethics come up and would love to know your thoughts.”

Nicole: Oooh.

Sasheer: Jacob, you’re good at ethics.

Jacob: Thank you.

Sasheer: “My friend has a private Twitter account he uses to vent his frustration with his job–” Wow. Really bad idea. “–with the world, with his partner, etc. I followed it years ago, and I think he forgets I can see it. I’m not active on Twitter usually but will pop on every month or so if I’m bored. Recently, he and his partner’s relationship has been falling apart, and I’ve been keeping an eye on that account every day to make sure he’s okay. I don’t react to anything on Twitter, but if I notice things are getting bad, I’ll find an excuse to message him and check up on him. If he tells me about something that happened that he’d already posted on Twitter, I’ll still act surprised and like I haven’t already read about it.”

Nicole: No!

Sasheer: “I ended up watching this whole relationship decline and end with a breakup without ever acknowledging that I’ve been getting the play by play online. Is that fucked up? The main thing I want is to make sure he’s doing all right, but sometimes it feels dishonest and voyeuristic to know something before he tells me about it himself. We’ve been friends for over a decade and have a good relationship, so he does tell me what’s going on in person, usually just a little bit later. Should I come clean about reading his posts?”

Nicole: No!

Sasheer: “Thank you so much for your wisdom and jokes.” Wow. Interesting.

Jacob: This is dense.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Nicole: This is crazy!

Sasheer: I mean, there’s so many things that shouldn’t be happening here. This person shouldn’t have a Twitter account where they vent their real-life frustrations with their relationship and job. Like, journal! Buy a journal! Are you kidding me?

Jacob: Or if you’re going to have that account, you can’t have it accessible to your peer group.

Nicole: Don’t tell a single person.

Sasheer: That’s so wild. Yeah. And that is strange for this person to creep on that account and not say anything.

Nicole: It is wild that they look at it every single day, know exactly what’s happening in this person’s life, get on the phone with this person or see them in person, and then act surprised. That’s too much.

Sasheer: And they’ve been friends for a decade. So, I would hope… I mean, I guess you can know someone for a decade and not be close, close friends. But I would hope that you could be comfortable enough to be like, “Hey, I saw online something was going on. Are you okay?”

Jacob: Yeah. Yeah. “I follow your Finsta and you’re having a meltdown.”

Sasheer: Yeah.

Nicole: If you say that now, the person who has the fake account or the private account or whatever will be like, “Wait. All those times they messaged me–was it because they saw my account?” And then if they bring it up, you have to be like, “Yeah, I’ve been looking at your account for, like, years or months now.” I think you never tell them. And I think you stop looking at it and you just text your friend like a normal person when you think about them.

Jacob: Yeah. I don’t think it’s the most healthy option, but sometimes, yeah, I think you just gotta shut the fuck up and bury it.

Nicole: Uh huh. Yeah. That goes to your grave, man–when you’re on your death.

Jacob: That’s earth shattering. That’s earth shattering to receive. That would make me go insane. “How many people have seen it? How many of my interactions have been, like…?” It would make me feel nutty.

Sasheer: But I feel like someone does have to tell the Twitter person that they can be seen. There are people in your life who can see this, so maybe you want yourself to maybe hold back on posting all of your thoughts.

Jacob: It really depends if he made it with the intention to be singular and unread by others or if it was sort of an extension account that doesn’t have his name, but all of his buddies also have. That’s the gray zone to me because if your intention is to be like, “A secret diary that I can go to and use on Twitter,” and people found it–that’s so different than if you’re like, “I got this thing that I sometimes tweet on.”

Sasheer: Well, they said it was a private account, which means that that person had to accept the follower, right?

Jacob: Oh. Yes. Yes. You’re right.

Nicole:  Yes. Oh, then maybe if they already accepted you and you’re following them, then they know you’re following them. Then I guess you can mention it.

Sasheer: They probably forgot.

Jacob: It was probably, like, yeah, eight years ago.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Nicole: Okay. Then I stick with never tell him.

Sasheer: Maybe don’t say, “I’ve seen your whole relationship deteriorate on this app,” but maybe like, “I saw the last tweet and it looks like things are bad. Do you want to talk?” Maybe that person will be like, “Oh shit, who else can see this?”

Jacob: That person does deserve a check in with what that Twitter is.

Sasheer: Yeah.

Nicole: Okay. Yeah, that works for me–to be like, “I saw this recently…” You can’t tell them that you watched their relationship, like, fucking implode.

Sasheer: Yeah, because that’s like gaslighting. You had full conversations and you never mentioned that you already knew this information?

Nicole: I think the only acceptable way to do that in life is if you start dating somebody, you do a little bit of research, on that date they mention something you found in research, and you act like you’ve never heard it before because you don’t know each other yet. But once you know someone, you can’t just be knowing shit about them and pretending like you didn’t unless it’s a secret that somebody told you.

Sasheer: Yeah, but they posted it publicly. Well, not publicly. It’s private.

Nicole: We need more information. We need to know if this is a private account where you were an accepted follower or it’s their private account that nobody knows about.

Jacob: Yeah.

Sasheer: Yeah. Okay. That’s a good distinction.

Nicole: So, this one’s gotta be to be continued. We need more information. This is a TBC.

Jacob: I think honestly, the person that engaged with the reading is the most in the wrong. And not that it’s right or wrong, but, like, has the most at stake and had the most involvement in the weirdness of it all. And so that’s up to them to contain or divulge. And it feels just weird enough that you can contain.

Nicole: Yes.

Jacob: It feels utilitarian.

Sasheer: You’re doing everybody a service by just keeping it close to the chest.

Nicole: Yes. The way we’re trying to flatten the curve, you flatten the curve of reading your friend’s shit.

Jacob: Another option? Retweet it all.

Nicole: Hell yeah, dude. Retweet it all! And then it becomes a movie at fucking Sundance and James Franco is in it.

Sasheer: I mean, why not? Dream big.

Nicole: Dream big, baby.

Jacob: My buddy stole a pair of James Franco’s boots at Sundance.

Sasheer: Good for him.

Nicole: Does he still wear them?

Jacob: I think he still has them. Yeah.

Nicole: I mean, yeah, wear them.

Sasheer: Were these new boots or boots that he wore on his feet, like, actively?

Jacob: I think it was like he was at a gifting suite, got new boots, and left his old boots behind.

Nicole: Oh, I was truly hoping that your friend pushed James Franco down and pulled the boots off of him.

Jacob: Oh, no.

Sasheer: Well, I guess, yeah, if James didn’t want the boots anymore, they’re up for grabs.

Nicole: Yeah. Those are public boots. Community boots if you will.

Jacob: Sorry to go on a very random tangent, but you said two words that were a story. My brain was just like, “You can talk!”

Nicole: “You have to let them know!”

Jacob: “Tell them! Tell them! What if you don’t get to tell them?”

Nicole: “What if they never know the story?” That happens to me sometimes–I’m like, “I have to tell the story,” and maybe it’s, like, a bit of a story, but it’s not long enough for me to have interrupted somebody. But this one was good. I liked it.

Sasheer: That’s a good story. I’m glad you told it.

Jacob: Thank you. Thank you. That’s awesome to hear.

Nicole: Jacob. Jacob, what’s on your shirt?

Jacob: It’s, like, a sun with a star in its third eye and then, like, a moon around the sun.

Sasheer: Okay.

Nicole: I like it.

Sasheer: Sassy sun, too.

Jacob: Yeah.

Nicole: It’s a very sassy sun.

Jacob: She’s looking good. Nice lips. Flat eyes.

Nicole: Jacob, please don’t fuck your shirt.

Jacob: Too late.

Nicole: Is that from The Mountain?

Jacob: Yes, it is. As are all my shirts.

Sasheer: The Mountain?

Nicole: Jacob’s favorite shirt store is The Mountain.

Jacob: Yeah. They’ve got great stuff. They recently changed some of their sizes, and it’s really been fucking me over.

Sasheer: I’m sorry.

Nicole: Oh no!

Jacob: Yeah, it’s weird. I think they got, like, a different base t-shirt vendor, and I just can’t get the sizing right.

Nicole: I’m sorry. You should write a letter to them. “Dear The Mountain. Your sizing…”

Sasheer: It sounds like a cult. “I got it from The Mountain.”

Jacob: “You don’t know about The Mountain? Come join me on The Mountain.”

Sasheer: “The Mountain has everything you need.” All right. Well, should we end this thing?

Nicole: We did it.

Sasheer: We did it.

Nicole: We really did it. There was a delay. We fought through it. The end, I think, is a little bit better. I think it’s less of a delay. But, you know, this is quarantine podcasting, baby.

Jacob: This is the world we’re in.

Sasheer: Jacob, how can people find you?

Jacob: You can find me on Twitter and Instagram @JacobWysocki. And you can also check out my podcast where I watched Fight Club for 72 hours straight. It’s called I Don’t Want to Talk About Fight Club Anymore. And Nicole’s in it.

Nicole: And honestly, I did it, and Fight Club is the longest movie ever made. And it’s bad. It’s bad.

Jacob: It’s long and it’s bad and I watched it 31 times.

Nicole: I can’t believe you watched it that many times. Will you watch it ever again?

Jacob: No, no. Unless I do it again. I was just thinking, like, what’s the funniest option for another movie three days in a row? And I went, “It’s Fight Club again.” If it’s not broken, don’t fix it.

Nicole: Don’t fix it. That’s such a weird saying. Who was the first person to try to fix something that wasn’t broken? And why? Why were they trying to do that?

Sasheer: Teddy Roosevelt.

Jacob: That’s a safe answer for a lot of historical things, I think.

Nicole: What was he trying to fix?

Sasheer: The light bulb. And they were like, “It’s done. Teddy. It ain’t broke. Stop trying to fix it.” But he’s like, “It could be better.”

Nicole: Wow. This has been a nice history lesson. Thank you, Sasheer. I’ll be sure to repeat that to people.

Sasheer: Please don’t. I don’t think that’s right.

Nicole: No, I’m going to repeat that to people. I’m going to say, “Sasheer told me…”

Sasheer: No need for the credit. You could just say you found it on your own.

Nicole: “Want to know what Sasheer taught me today? That Franklin– No. That Teddy Roosevelt–”

Jacob: Yeah, dude. I’ve never seen somebody moat themselves any faster. Just absolutely moated.

Sasheer: Immediately forgot what we just said.

Jacob: “Franklin… Eleanor…”

Nicole: “Roosevelt. A Roosevelt.” Well, this has been Best Friends’ Friends.

Sasheer: Thanks, Jacob!

Jacob: Thank you!

Nicole: Thank you, Jacob!