EP. 67 — Beth Stelling

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jamella Jamil, I hope you’re well. I’m fine. I am. Yeah, I’m doing a new job. And if you want to know what that job is, you can head over to my Instagram. I did a little announcement, which is something I don’t normally do, but this job is so ridiculous that I had to I had to just make a twenty second moment of it on social media because it’s the well it’s my biggest blag yet. And if you followed me for a while online or you’ve been listening to this podcast, you’ll know why it’s so ridiculous for me to be doing this and how excited I must be. And also terrified. And that’s the last I’ll say on it, because I’ll just leave it to you to say if you want to investigate. Um, OK. So more importantly, today’s guest is exceptional. She is one of the great young stand ups of our generation, I feel like. And her last special Girl Daddy is so inspired and funny and thought-provoking and just oh, she’s just great. I wish I was more like her. And I was thrilled when she responded to my slide into her DMs by saying, yes, she would come on to my podcast to speak about some really difficult issues. And so I have a myriad of trigger warnings for you today. But, um, my guest today is Beth Stelling. And and I want you to know her first and way foremost for her extraordinary talent. But people who’ve been following her career for a while may also know that she was the victim of assault, of domestic abuse. And she spoke out about it publicly years ago. And it wasn’t the assault I wanted to discuss with her today, because God knows how many times she’s had to bring it up and rehash it again and again and again over the years, because that’s what we do to survivors. And also, I don’t ever want to re traumatize anyone on my podcast. So what we did talk about instead, and we ended up spending quite a lot of time on it, was the aftermath of speaking out about sexual violence or any kind of violence that you receive, especially when you’re a woman. And that is a subject just not often enough covered we you know, we I mean, if at all, we offer attention to a case and we learn of the awful grievous harm that has been done, we don’t really check in with the woman afterwards after she’s come out and bared her soul and been so vulnerable, knowing full well that there may well be so much gaslighting and and doubt and pain that comes with speaking out about something so difficult to talk about. And no one tracks whether or not that woman is OK, that that victim is OK, that person is OK, that human being who went through something unimaginable is OK. We don’t talk about the system, we don’t talk about what happens in the public eye and which journalists are complicit in silencing women or discouraging women from speaking out. We talk a lot about how toxic the stand up comedy scene is, as Beth is you know now, I guess kind of becoming a vet in that world. And she’s been doing it for a long time. And I’m a huge fan. I think she’s so smart, so funny. And I I urge you once you watch her special Girl Daddy, which is out now. Just go down a rabbit hole of her YouTube videos because she’s so good and she will turn so many things that you believe in or think about right on its head in such an unexpected and untraditional manner. She’s very cool. And I want to just remind you that if you are not ready to hear about intimate partner violence or sexual violence or abuse of any kind or gaslighting, even after abuse, if you’re going to be triggered by any of those things, then maybe skip this episode. But if you are ready, then please join me in falling madly in love with the excellent Beth Stelling. [00:04:30][269.9]

Jameela: [00:04:47] Beth Stelling, I have become a huge fan of yours via Instagram and then on to YouTube and then now onto HBO Max where found your wonderful special Girl Daddy. Welcome to I Weigh. How are you? [00:04:59][12.2]

Beth: [00:05:00] Oh, thank you so much for having me. I love how you say my special name. That’s the first time I’ve heard it said like that. It’s so much better. [00:05:06][6.5]

Jameela: [00:05:07] A little prim English accent. Girl Daddy. [00:05:09][2.3]

Beth: [00:05:11] I love how like I’m so ruined by the Internet, even just hearing the word YouTube. I’m like, no, [00:05:17][5.8]

Jameela: [00:05:18] I know [00:05:18][0.2]

Beth: [00:05:19] you’re like I watch you on YouTube and I’m like, no, don’t go there. It’s a bad part of town. [00:05:23][4.2]

Jameela: [00:05:23] But it’s so good for falling into a rabbit hole of someone that you that you sort of fall in love with over Instagram because Instagram isn’t enough, Beth. I was only getting one to two minutes of you and I was hungry. I was hungry. [00:05:36][13.4]

Beth: [00:05:37] You needed more. [00:05:37][0.5]

Jameela: [00:05:38] Yeah. And so I went down a whole rabbit hole. I think I might have now seen every video you’ve ever made. I think that qualifies me as a stan and I’m so thrilled to have you here. [00:05:49][10.8]

Beth: [00:05:49] Yeah. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be on with you. And, you know, I’m a fan of the pod and of you and [00:05:55][6.1]

Jameela: [00:05:56] you’re very kind. I make everyone say that [00:05:58][2.4]

Beth: [00:05:59] I’ve been honestly, I’ve been the only thing I’ve been dreading is just the end when I have to say. [00:06:03][3.7]

Jameela: [00:06:04] Oh, yeah, what you weigh? Just so you know, it’s not in pounds and kilos, I always have to remind people of that [00:06:10][6.0]

Beth: [00:06:10] I know it’s so hard to not make a joke and I weigh myself in kilograms because it’s less. It’s less and I don’t understand them. [00:06:16][5.2]

Jameela: [00:06:16] Yeah, because I love the patriarchy. [00:06:18][2.4]

Beth: [00:06:19] Yes. [00:06:19][0.0]

Jameela: [00:06:22] So we are I guess we’re kind of coming out of lockdown as a world. It’s been a year and a half. How was your head? How are you feeling? You all right mate? [00:06:31][9.3]

Beth: [00:06:33] I’m not sure. You know, there have been many times in my life where I felt like. You know what, how a dog will sort of like be on carpet and scoot around and like with its paws like. You know, trying to get comfortable and like make a little bed and you want to be like, bud, you know, the carpet’s not going to move. I sort of have that feeling often in my life where I just feel like I’m spinning a bit and moving and I feel like a lots on my mind and I’m overwhelmed, but nothing’s really happening or getting done. And I think what I really just need is a job. I think I think I just got to get working again. And I did. I have worked, of course, but like in my home and, you know, not all writers rooms are back in person. [00:07:21][47.8]

Jameela: [00:07:22] Yeah. I don’t know I don’t know if I agree with you. I mean who am I to tell you how to look, I think you should sit in your own shit and cry. No, I. I do. I totally know what you’re talking about. And I definitely had the instinct like early into lockdown after I’d enjoyed that first month being like, this is fucking brilliant. And, you know, I was excited to have a bit of obviously the pandemic was not brilliant, the pandemic was fucking terrifying. But this is before we knew how serious it was and how severe it was. It was sort of like week one and it was more people being afraid, but us not having any coherent results on like how terrifying and deadly this thing was you end up being. So I was like, oh, we’re all off work. Sometimes I wonder if, like, people are going to learn how to relax. For once, I had a weekend off in three years, so I was like, oh, this is fun. [00:08:09][46.7]

Beth: [00:08:10] And I was so excited to take the break. [00:08:11][1.8]

Jameela: [00:08:12] Yeah. But then soon I started to feel kind of this itch of needing to get back to work. And I’m sure some of that was because I love what I do. But I think a bigger part of it was the fact that a lot of stuff, as soon as I’m still, because I’ve had a lot of trauma in my life, a lot of that trauma starts to rise to the surface. And if I don’t have anything to distract me or someone to blame it on them, it starts to just take over my brain. And I, I, you know, was left in a situation where there was no work coming back and I kind of had to push all the way through to the other side, I think it was Homeland that had the tagline of the only way out is back in. [00:08:48][35.6]

Beth: [00:08:50] Nooooo. [00:08:50][0.0]

Jameela: [00:08:51] I kept on thinking about that. And I’m not saying that we should all, you know, delve into the depths of our trauma, especially if we’re home alone and we don’t have a support system around us. But, um, but I do want I am glad that I’ve I’ve taken some time to just delve into what those things that were making me uncomfortable. What made me feel like that analogy you came up with is so brilliant about that so is something that I resonate with just never feeling like I can quite get right. Quite comfortable with something stopping me, something in between me and happiness or me and actually feeling something. But I think what I’ve learned from lockdown is that I’m going to try to not throw myself into loads of work when I feel uncomfortable. I’m going to try and force my way through it as carefully as I can. [00:09:36][44.6]

Beth: [00:09:37] Yeah, I do know what you mean. I, I’ve always been like obsessed with poetry and quotes and things. And one thing I loved was the quote, you know, I am not my art, but then I always add to it because of what I do. I just said, you know, I’m not my art, but it’s hard to tell us apart, you know? I mean, I’m a stand up comic. I’m very vulnerable. And I divulge a lot of information about myself. These are my choices. But it’s almost like I didn’t have a choice, which is a theme for sure, for my life, my childhood. And what I I’m I’m like oddly a rule follower, like, I think because my art has been so personal and it’s so interesting because there’s a lot of people who think stand ups like a joke or a lie or stories that you’ve made up. And for some comics, that is I just don’t do that. And sometimes I overshare, you know, sometimes I hear too much, but it’s very much me and vulnerable. So instead of being able to walk away from a show and say, well, they just don’t like the jokes that I told about burritos or animals, they’re like, oh, they hate me. I hate my very essence. And so that can be detrimental. And so when the pandemic happened, I was so relieved I needed a break. And also I felt my special Girl Daddy, March 7th, 2020, the weekend before technically the world shut down. And we weren’t to wasn’t a dangerous situation. We weren’t like, let’s do it anyway. It was just like, yeah, this is, you know, like nothing was threatening us to shut down. And so I was so happy, like, oh my gosh, thankfully everyone has to stop, you know, like you don’t want to take a nap as a kid because you don’t want to miss out. And stand up comedy is a community in a lot of ways, but it’s also competitive. And sometimes you and social media doesn’t help. So if you see everybody out working and stuff, you’re like, well, I just filmed my special and I want to take a break, but I can because everybody’s on the grind or whatever. And it’s so when that happened, I was like, we all have to, but then a lot of people didn’t. You know, there were like I bought a green screen and you’re like noooo or like, you know, they figure out a way to do Zoom shows. And I was like stop. And again, I understand why some people did it. I don’t judge them. I just wanted that break. And then I went through a series of a lot of things. Of course, the world affected me, the racial reckoning, a lot of things going on in our world and all of us being isolated. So I felt like I really needed to be quiet and not say anything. So it even bothered me when other people wouldn’t stop and just shut up and listen. So I had a series of emotions and definitely dealt with at times feeling really, really low. And angry, and then I quit stand up. [00:12:25][168.9]

Jameela: [00:12:26] You quit stand up? [00:12:26][0.1]

Beth: [00:12:28] Yeah. It’s almost like I mean, I did, yeah, in my head, I was like, I’m done. I just want to stop. Because if I didn’t say that. It’s always like a little tug, you know, like because it’s so part of my life, I was never the comic who like if we were talking in conversation, I would be like oooh let me write that down. I always thought it would be so rude, like I would never let myself do that. I was really trying to be present and I never wanted to be the comic who was way gone because I thought that was annoying. But still, I wanted to break the relief because, like you said, let’s all stop and actually see if we can relax and rest. And I couldn’t unless I said I quit stand up. And I also got really angry, too, just like in general, where I felt like, you know, in so many ways I my standup has changed over the years where I want to try to say more or something that’s more important to me and then I and then, yeah, there’s that’s a whole nother thing I don’t know if I should get into. [00:13:23][54.7]

Jameela: [00:13:23] What do you mean? [00:13:23][0.1]

Beth: [00:13:23] I just like I watch Richard Pryor’s 1979 special in Long Beach that I filmed it, it’s on Netflix and he was talking about, you know, black men dying and chokeholds and the police brutality. And it felt like really? Freakin 40 some years later we have it. Not that it’s like I want to help and bring light to things that affect me that I know affect other women. Right. And I don’t know if Richard necessarily was doing that for himself, but I’m sure it affected him and therefore he wanted to talk about it. And it just was like, so depressing to me that nothing had really changed. So then to me, that goes what you do doesn’t change anything. It’s still happening. So that was sad to me. And then also everything we’ve dealt with over the years of how comedy comedy continues to change. I actually did like a little roundtable with Jim Gaffigan, who’s been doing it much longer than me, and he had several interesting insights about that, like how much it has absolutely changed over the years and will continue to. But there are comics who. I don’t know, aren’t really progressing or open to that progression [00:14:38][74.7]

Jameela: [00:14:39] Some are actually leaning further the other way into sort of like screaming anti liberal. I’m not to say that you can’t have different political beliefs, but I feel as though they’re like deliberate shitting on on very simple human rights issues. You know, I mean, look, I mean, liberals can be fucking snobs as well. And incredibly offensive about the other. I get it. But when you’re talking about someone’s fundamental human rights, not the kind of thing to make fun of and belittle and laugh at. And I feel like some people playing to the easiest crowd because they’re they’re of the crowd. They’re of the kind of old school of, well, we just can’t make any jokes anymore. And it’s a bit like, God, and are you really funny if you if that’s the only place you can find humor. [00:15:22][43.5]

Beth: [00:15:23] Right. Right. As Brian Regan, he was a comic who doesn’t cuss says. There’s so many other words. There’s so many other words. Why are you desperate to cling to like slurs? You know, why? Why must you see them? And it’s not just any comic. It’s the white male comics. It’s like the majority. And it’s not all white male comics, of course. And there are outliers, too, of course. But it’s like you’re in the majority. And I think you’ve not understood that. You know, like I think because oftentimes they’ve gone through life unscathed. And I’m not saying they’ve never faced hardship whatsoever, but I think because they’ve gone through life fairly unscathed. Nothing’s off limits because nothing’s ever hurt them, so they don’t have any sort of personal attachment to them or rape jokes, just a rape joke. But like, how about this? Richard Pryor has a rape joke in his that 79 special. And I laughed at it because it’s not from the perspective of a rapist. I mean, what are you doing? Like, why are you choosing to talk about those things? Is it because you just want to upset people or, you know, like everybody so sensitive and like it’s just a sort of weird, you know, and then they will, like, somehow turn it on others and say like, oh, we’re just like victim. You’re playing the victim and it’s like oddly you’re being the victim because the one time someone is, like, pushing back on you a little, you can’t adjust, you can’t change you. You’re the victim because you’re getting questioned. So you push back. [00:16:58][94.6]

Jameela: [00:16:58] Yeah, it’s a little bit like when we should let you should let babies and children kind of play in the sandbox because they’ll be exposed to germs. And if you don’t, then they won’t be they won’t develop an immune system. Right. I feel a bit like that with the most privileged people in society. I think we’ve seen that with celebrities getting butt hurt so easily and like calling cancel culture just because they’ve been complained that they haven’t lost a job or any money or any kind of claim they’ve just been complained about. And I think that certain people with high privilege have low immunity to push back, whereas I think those of us who are, you know, women or women of color or women with disabilities or trans, I would like to I mean, like just that I think I think the more the. Yeah, the further you like, the further you enter into the space of oppression, like the more immunity you have. And so therefore you’re less easily you feel, you know, you’re so used to and it’s so sad that it’s this way because so used to having things taken away from you [00:17:52][53.9]

Beth: [00:17:52] or picking through the poison, meaning like like for example, sometimes when like all the comments right on a woman’s speaking of YouTube, you are often men. Right. See, this is why women aren’t funny. Women aren’t funny. This chick’s not funny. Women only talk about sex. It’s like, wow, king, everything’s not for you. Went like that you’ve gone through the world. Everything has been just you think everything placed before you is for you or used to being like, oh, I got to avoid that and I can’t go there. And, and I’m and I’m a white woman. I’m privileged in a lot of ways. But I still understand that not everything is for me and therefore I don’t have to go. But don’t tell everybody how I feel, so it’s just sort of like that part bothers me, too. It’s like everyone has this understanding that, you don’t like all music, I don’t go to country music stars pa- I actually don’t mind country. But whatever they get, they get dragged enough, let’s say whatever. I don’t even know [00:18:46][53.7]

Jameela: [00:18:46] Slipknot. [00:18:46][0.0]

Beth: [00:18:46] Thank you go to their page and say like this isn’t music. So you have to admit that it’s more than taste. It’s misogyny, because if everyone applied their same feelings about music and other art to comedy, they would understand that it’s not for them. [00:19:04][17.6]

Jameela: [00:19:04] Or food. You know, we’re not like Indian food is bad. Some people just can’t handle or don’t like Indian food. You’re not allowed to just dismiss something as entirely bad and negative. Yeah, that’s so true. I love that analogy. I mean, you’ve had a lot of experience when it comes to the pushback, especially when you have been trying to talk about misogyny that exists in the world or in comedy or in relationships. And you’ve spoken you’ve spoken in depth about violence and even violence that you faced. And and while I know I want to be so careful of the fact that you do not want to be the girl who was known for that, you do not want that to be your thing. And the only thing that people want to talk to you about that when we were speaking prior to this, you know, you and I have a lot of similar experiences and thoughts on this matter. And it’s not so much that I want to delve into what happened to you so much as the aftermath of you speaking out about it. [00:20:00][56.1]

Beth: [00:20:01] And the main difference too when you and I talked is that I knew going into this that that might be something that you asked. You know, it was something I’m willing to talk about. So that’s the main difference here, is that I feel safe with you. I want to talk about it so other people have an understanding [00:20:14][13.3]

Jameela: [00:20:16] and I ask permission. [00:20:16][0.6]

Beth: [00:20:17] Yes. And I’m not trying to promote a show in Chicago two years ago and blindsided by the word, you know, or something that’s happened to me in by a reporter. And it’s just like, [00:20:30][12.8]

Jameela: [00:20:31] yeah, it’s very interesting how once you share something, then everyone thinks that you are willing and excited to talk about that same trauma. If it’s distressing and traumatic in particular, [00:20:40][9.0]

Beth: [00:20:43] To me it feels punishing even. It’s it’s basically like, oh, did you want to be public about that? Well, that’s the only thing we’re going to talk about from now on. And really, it’s like very silencing to other women, if that’s the only thing. I mean, why would anybody want to come forward after seeing what happens to women? That’s why it’s so when they give that excuse of, like, a woman who. You know, come forward or tell the truth about things that have happened to them regarding sexual violence, you did that for attention, it’s like what? Medical attention. I mean, what are you talking about? Why would I? The reason even like I feel like whatever I don’t know if we want to split it between the left and the right or whatever, but it’s like the reason a lot of people who are more, I don’t even know, empathetic left liberals say things like that was so brave. And then, of course, the opposition is always like literally mocking that word, like you’re so brave and say, oh, no, the reason they know it’s brave is because they would never do it, because they see what happens to people who do it. Like there would be it would it wouldn’t be too far off for me to say, I wish I never made a peep. I wish I never said a thing. I look at I look at the other women, who who who, because I share my story, then shared theirs with me, that he also hurt. Same guy. Other women. Came to me saying thank you. That happened to me as well. But I don’t want to share, you know, almost feeling guilty towards me. Oh, my goodness, of course not. I wouldn’t there’s no pressure from me. Just because I’ve said to me doesn’t mean you need to. But I’m so envious of them because their lives look great. You know, this is like six years later and it’s like I again, I’m genuinely consenting and happy to talk about it with you because here I am. And we should talk about it because how am I how are you to move on? I mean, there was a period of time where he even said, no questions about that, please, you know, and then I thought that time would be over and. Nope. Two summers ago, I’m with my mom in Montreal for Just For Laughs and an NPR reporter talking, talking. I’m happy to talk about the festival da da da. And then. And it’s just like a gut punch it’s like my it’s like a stab in my heart and I’m like, I’m here to do my show and do my podcast with my mom. And it just it sucks. It’s triggering it’s upsetting [00:23:15][152.3]

Jameela: [00:23:16] It must have been upsetting for your mother as well. [00:23:17][1.1]

Beth: [00:23:18] Yeah. [00:23:18][0.0]

Jameela: [00:23:21] Fucking hell. I can’t believe people talk to people about that without any kind of warning, the lack of intelligence, it shows also that they are they have not survived something. I feel like because I’ve been through, like, sexual violence. I mean, I would hope that’s not why I’m self-aware enough to ask for someone’s consent to talk about these subjects. But before every podcast episode that I do, I was call up and I’m like, what do you not want to talk about? Like my opening question? [00:23:44][22.5]

Beth: [00:23:44] And the thing that’s so annoying is because if I’m if it’s sprung on me, I’m so it’s like people who have experienced violence and have decided to chose chosen to talk about it publicly or tell the truth, it’s almost like you have to be an expert on it. Like I felt like I had to be the perfect victim to even come forward, that I had just enough power and just enough people knew me and knew my heart and knew I was honest. And I had picture proof and I had him his, you know, admittance of it in writing. And I, you know, dealt with lawyers. It’s like I felt like the perfect. And now I can people will believe me. And still no. Of course, I was very supported. But people don’t send me stuff now as much saying something like. You know, thank you for doing that as much as I’ll get an email to my website or a Twitter mention that says something like you ruined a man’s life and it’s I couldn’t have done it without him. [00:24:40][56.2]

Jameela: [00:24:42] Yeah! [00:24:42][0.0]

Beth: [00:24:44] It’s like so. And I like and and I can block certain words and I do, but. You know, I still rely on friends to talk me down, and I’ve been triggered by people who are on the left or what we love to refer to is like the left eating the left, you know, someone asking me to take responsibility for calling out someone else or and asking me to, you know, and [00:25:08][24.1]

Jameela: [00:25:09] I don’t I don’t know what you mean. Like someone. So you. Oh, I know what you mean. So do you mean like if there’s another comic who’s done something bad and they’re like, why have you been so silent about this thing? Go after this person as if that wouldn’t then be further traumatizing for you. As if that wouldn’t bring your story back up. [00:25:28][18.8]

Beth: [00:25:28] That happened recently around this time of my special. I was because I came out with the Team Coco Slate because Conan O’Brien produced my special for HBO Max and I was in a group of people. We didn’t have anything to do with each other necessarily. But in a press release, our names are mentioned and someone repeatedly tweeted at me, you know, you’re being pictured with an abuser, you know, kind of do something about it. And why are they giving him the limelight? Conan, I have five minutes ready to go. So that’s sort of what I received. And I mean it. You know how it feels I’m sure. It’s just I know this is the other annoying thing. I’m I’m around the men who mock all the terms so much constantly that it’s even hard for me to, like, be like, yeah, I was triggered. I was triggered. You know what I mean? Like we have men in my field. [00:26:23][54.9]

Jameela: [00:26:24] They think trigger’s a really funny word [00:26:24][0.3]

Beth: [00:26:25] I have men my field are men in my field, my my more famous colleagues, you know, mocking, like brave and triggered. And you did it, you know, like, you know, I was sexually assaulted, like they literally are mocking. So it’s like even when I’m talking about a time where generally my physical body reaction and me tweeting back at this person, which I should have stepped away from my phone, I should have called my best friend and she should have said, don’t respond to that [00:26:48][22.4]

Jameela: [00:26:49] story of my life. [00:26:49][0.5]

Beth: [00:26:50] But but that’s the weird thing about Twitter. And again, so I did I responded in a triggered fashion, which was I can’t believe you’re taking one of my most things I’ve ever been proud of. And. I can’t remember exactly what I said, honestly. I mean, I’m sure I could dig it up. [00:27:07][17.2]

Jameela: [00:27:07] But it came across as as defensive [00:27:09][2.1]

Beth: [00:27:10] I was angry and I was upset and I was like, how do you take one of my accomplishments and make it about a man who I never chose to work with, have nothing to do with it, has nothing to do with my project whatsoever. And the person was like said so sorry and I didn’t think about it like that, I mean, like this is the announcement of like something I’ve worked hard on, which does involve my own sexual assault. So certainly my own my own experiences in the world. So I’m just sort of like. I just responded upset and then in the morning, her friend came after me, started hitting me with articles, and you victim shamed you victim blamed. But it wasn’t clear to me that that person coming to me was a victim and I don’t know their story exactly, but and again, this is still being defensive, you know what I’m saying, and she’s basically sort of like at me, at me, like, you have a responsibility with the amount of followers you have, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I eventually just and she’s basically like saying, you need to do this and you need to do that. And so it’s not helping. I’m still spinning like I I stepped away the night before and then wrap me right back up again in the morning. And it’s like I’m fighting with this person who, who says this is my least favorite thing people say you need to do some soul searching. Please get away from me forever. I’m just sort of like after all the work I’ve done to even still be on this planet because of that. Don’t tell me that, you know what I mean, like don’t what? and so I watched how it concluded was I admitted I didn’t understand that that woman was coming to me for help, as in she was hurt by that man. It just felt like someone was saying, you’re with an abuser. Why would you do that? You know? And so I was defending myself. But what happened was I ended up, of course, reporting it to the executives I worked with and said this is what what came to me, what I was told to me, letting you know and you should look into it. So it’s like that’s all I can do, right? [00:29:15][125.0]

Jameela: [00:29:17] Totally, totally. It’s a it’s a it’s a very interesting space to exist in. Once you are spoken about one thing people expect you to be outspoken about literally everything. And I think our instinct as women is to go, oh, God, I must, I must, I must, I must. I think men feel more inclined to just go not my fucking problem. And no one should feel like that’s not my fucking problem. But everyone should have a sense of boundary. Everyone should know what can I cope with? What is going to send me back down the rabbit hole of my own trauma? What is going to re like what’s going to rehash like and bring back the thing that happened to me because I’m speaking about this issue. I had an experience of sexual assault. Everyone’s going to start talking about that case in 2015 all over again. And then I won’t have to see that all over. [00:29:57][40.1]

Beth: [00:29:57] That’s basically what I was worried about. [00:29:59][1.4]

Jameela: [00:29:59] Yeah, exactly. And so I think no one thinks about that. I do kind of want to return back to something that you said, uh, a couple of minutes ago where you were saying that, you know, I I wish I had never spoken out about it and. I was just wondering, do you do you fully feel that way? Was there any part of you that feels bad that you said something? [00:30:22][23.3]

Beth: [00:30:23] I feel like that’s me being like a little brat, you know? I mean, [00:30:26][3.4]

Jameela: [00:30:27] I don’t think that’s you being a brat. I think it’s a completely human feeling. I just wonder, you know, like I’ve spoken about my physical health before and then been gaslit internationally about it and then regretted ever telling people about my disability, you know, just I wish I’d never said anything. And even though it’s meant so much to so many tens and thousands of people who have the same condition, there are many days where I was like, God, I wish I had never I wish I’d never spoken about that. I wish I’d never been vulnerable. But I think. If I were to zoom out and if I look back on my life when I’m 80, I’ll still be glad that I’m someone who’s so outspoken about these things. Um, not that I’m trying to guide you towards you now saying the same. I’m just saying I just wonder because I think part of our responsibility, I guess what I’m worried about is that anyone listening to this would be like, shit OK, so I should never come forward, I think. And and that also and that’s also totally fine if that’s how you feel listening to this. But I also just want to say that our responsibility, after listening to what Beth is saying, what we have to do is change the system. We have become more supportive of other women. We have to change the way in which we allow men around us, women around anyone around us to speak of, even just in private about people who come out and talk about abuse. We have to change the whole culture, because if this is happening to people with as much power as myself or Beth, you can only imagine what’s happening to anyone listening to this podcast at the school. At that office. [00:31:57][90.1]

Beth: [00:31:58] Exactly. And I think that’s just like I guess the tough part is kind of like what I went back to saying there. I was really I’m grateful to a lot of comics who supported me, who knew me, has known me for years, and a lot of humans, individuals on this planet who, you know, shared their feelings and love and expressed their gratefulness. And I’m friends with a woman who saw it on the news and left an abusive husband. And it’s like I have a physical friend, you know, and yet it’s so easy for me to get dragged into a I mean, like it’s just like foom and down into a sewer by looking at something that someone said to me on Twitter. And I even have certain words blocked. But sometimes things sneak through and it feels so cruel and like, how could you do this? And I am a sensitive person. And I think it’s partly I got to build a bigger a tougher skin, but it goes back to like what I said about the brave thing. They say you’re so brave because you are. You signed up for battle forever. And I’m not going to stop and I will keep trying. And [00:33:09][70.7]

Jameela: [00:33:11] If you feel like it, if you can handle it, like, yeah, I’ve seen a lot of women who during the me too movement spoke out about their trauma and have fucking spiraled because they were like, right now I’m gonna become the voice of all women and now I’m going to go after every single story. And then I’ve watched their mental health absolutely deteriorate right in front of me [00:33:28][16.7]

Beth: [00:33:28] because social media doesn’t help. And shame [00:33:30][2.2]

Jameela: [00:33:31] The media twists everything. And then the media is set up to not believe us. I mean, this is yeah, it’s societal. [00:33:35][4.3]

Beth: [00:33:36] So I certainly don’t want people to I, I realize that that could have been not sounded like the best thing to say. [00:33:44][7.6]

Jameela: [00:33:44] Oh no, it’s fine. But I just wanted to clear it up. That’s OK. [00:33:47][2.4]

Beth: [00:33:47] Yeah but but like, you know, I had to separate myself enough from it to write jokes and kind of going back to what I said earlier, like I wrote those jokes to to combat the powerful men who were saying otherwise in my field, so I mean, I’m specifically responding to some of their jokes that they are adamant that are just jokes and it’s like it is this. It’s all entwining. Right. That woman on Twitter is saying, I need to use my power to do this. It’s like, OK, in the same vein, I’m looking at these men with, you know, 100 times more power than me leading men in what I think is the wrong direction, so in some of my special, I am speaking to the men like please don’t listen to them, you know like, [00:34:34][46.9]

Jameela: [00:34:34] Yeah I feel like it’s a very your special is fucking brilliant. And I especially like, will you tell my audience how you say the word rape in order to soften it? [00:34:43][8.8]

Beth: [00:34:45] Yes. I just say, what’s it called when somebody wants to have sex with you but you don’t and they do it anyway. [00:34:50][5.2]

Jameela: [00:34:51] Oh right. Yeah, no, I meant I was referring to the fact that you say in a thick Scottish accent. [00:34:54][3.8]

Beth: [00:34:55] Oh, the way I first say it is yeah. A lot of my colleagues are afraid of getting accused of rape. And for some reason, it’s easier to hear in a Scottish accent. I don’t know why and [00:35:04][9.1]

Jameela: [00:35:04] not to feel Scottish, but yeah. [00:35:05][1.0]

Beth: [00:35:05] Yeah, but it does it does cut it a bit. It’s just [00:35:10][5.0]

Jameela: [00:35:12] A little bit yeah. It sounds like Shrek saying it, [00:35:14][1.8]

Beth: [00:35:15] it’s just I’ve thought about so you know, I think I just also perseverated on it. Right. For many years I tried to go into the topics in my standup in a certain way that was too personal in my hand would shake and I would have to lock it here. And my body was tight and I had to find a way for many years to tell these jokes and make them truly, like, funny enough to be bulletproof to my colleagues that hate what I’m doing [00:35:40][25.3]

Jameela: [00:35:41] That sucks. Man, that it so sucks that your colleagues aren’t supportive. [00:35:43][1.6]

Beth: [00:35:44] because they’re hard jokes. Yeah, like, think about it. There are tons of comics, male particularly, who look at Hannah Gadsby’s groundbreaking special Nanette and they’ll they go to their grave. That’s not stand up comedy. And it’s like, OK, cool. So you want to call people who are talking about their personal experiences or things that are important to them social justice warriors. What do you think Richard Pryor was then? Who you all tout as your hero, which is what he wasn’t doing, wasn’t social justice work? I mean, it’s just it’s it’s annoying to me. Chappelle. [00:36:25][40.7]

Jameela: [00:36:25] Yeah, Chappelle, Chris Rock from the start was talking about police violence, all of these different things. [00:36:31][6.5]

Beth: [00:36:32] Things that are important to you. [00:36:33][0.7]

Jameela: [00:36:33] He wasn’t just telling silly jokes they were highly intelligent [00:36:35][2.1]

Beth: [00:36:36] that affect you because they are part of your everyday and they are freaking woven into you. And so you have to, like, find a way to, like, make sense of it and make it funny and take its power away in some fashion or make other people understand. And I do. And I have to remember as far as many comments that are like women aren’t funny and this is why they say women aren’t funny and bla bla bla I also get comments from men and young boys that say things like, I need to hear this. And and I remember one particularly some guy wrote, I never thought about it that way. I done learned through jokes, you know? I mean, [00:37:13][36.3]

Jameela: [00:37:13] that’s so sweet. [00:37:14][0.6]

Beth: [00:37:15] And I like to be silly too like I want to be silly. [00:37:17][2.8]

Jameela: [00:37:18] I was I was I need [00:37:19][1.1]

Beth: [00:37:19] I enjoy being silly. [00:37:20][0.6]

Jameela: [00:37:20] Even though you talk about these really difficult subjects in you’re special, you’re so funny and you bring such like you bring a levity without trivializing the issue. And I think that’s what I like. I’ve seen it twice now and I watched it once by myself and then once my boyfriend and just watched him like his brain lit up. Just loving like you have a way of talking to people that doesn’t pull any punches, but also just makes someone want to see sense. You know what I mean, that there’s this peace that you emanate on stage, even though you don’t seem to always have that peace yourself, you don’t always benefit from the peace that you give others, but it’s like peace and confidence that you emanate on stage. I feel like it draws people in and makes them want to join you and what you think. I think it was so special. Everyone should go and watch the special. It’s so good. [00:38:07][46.4]

Beth: [00:38:07] Thank you Jameela. [00:38:08][0.3]

Jameela: [00:38:08] And another thing I want to talk to you about is the fact that something that really pissed me off when we were talking is something that I can also relate to, which is that a lot of the journalists who spring you with really offensive, blunt, cold questions about the accusations you’ve made or about the subjects that you are discussing that have happened to you they’re women. It’s a special pain, isn’t it? When a woman comes after you and or woman betrays you like that when a woman doesn’t have it’s like that same fuckin woman has had to hold her keys between her fingers when she walks home at night, that same woman, if like even if nothing’s ever happened to her, which is hugely rare statistically. She’s lived in fear of that thing happening to her. So how could how could she how could a woman participate, especially in that area of conversation, [00:39:05][57.1]

Beth: [00:39:06] I guess because they’re I mean. Well, there were white women and also maybe some, like you said, something bad’s never happened to them. And it’s like, I guess I’m glad you get to live in that ignorance is bliss. [00:39:19][13.6]

Jameela: [00:39:20] That’s what I said about the woman who was accusing me of lying about my illness. I was like, fucking lucky you. Lucky you that you don’t think it’s possible for someone to have this many ailments and conditions or to live in as much pain, like, thank God, I’m really happy for you. That you don’t know what this feels like because you must not. Otherwise you would never say it’s not possible. It’s such a privilege to think it’s not possible to have gone through a certain thing, to have been hurt by a certain person, to have experienced something really shocking and horrifying. It’s such a privilege to think that’s not possible. [00:39:54][33.6]

Beth: [00:39:54] And unfortunately, that’s often what it takes right. For them to understand. I mean, I want to still go in that direction. But I it made me think of this thing, which is I dated a comic just after my abusive boyfriend, and he actually, a couple of years before we ever dated, got in trouble, you know, had a couple of articles written about him by, you know, one of my favorite writers, actually, but before I’d read her work. But Lindy West, he’s mentioned in the book, Shrill for and she’s criticizing his rape jokes. And then he went on to date me and I think he hasn’t told one since. Maybe from being near me and holding me cry. I mean, is that all it took for, you understand, like the deep and lasting pain that happens and you have to be someone’s partner through that for you to not make a joke about it again, because, like, he’s a joke man, you know, like jokes or jokes or jokes. And it’s like, cool. Why are you telling them? [00:40:53][58.6]

Jameela: [00:40:53] Yeah, it’s the whole like, oh, I’m a dad of two girls, so. Yes, I’m girl dad. Yes, exactly. So I’m against this but against all of rape or I have black friends so I’m against this racism. [00:41:07][14.4]

Beth: [00:41:08] I want to I don’t want to get scared away from that because I was going to say because like the first the second the third time it, like, stabbed me, those things I then needed to make projections for myself. So I told my managers I can’t do any more. I can do press for this tour anymore. You know, like we’ll just say that they can ask about that. And it’s like, OK, but then like I told you, I was almost lifted over the years, but I think we’re OK. And then in twenty nineteen in Montreal and but I’m a little I’m a little more apt to deal with it because I’ve been through therapy and I have that mantra which is like it happened, I dealt with it. It’s in the past and I’ve moved on. But when this woman sprung that on me, kind of basically asking me about Louis C.K. at the festival and if I felt safe and because I had been, you know, and she said because you you know, it starts that she starts to talk, go into it. And I’m like I mean, I’m like shocked that she’s going this direction because I was just speaking about so many just different other things. So the one thing I was able to say back to her was like. Do you think that football players leaving the field after a game or just randomly asked if they were touched by Paterno? You know what I mean, like like what where are you bringing this? Why are you bringing Louis to me? Why are you saying like and she’s like, that’s not that’s completely different. And I just like, walked away. But that was like the first thing I could snap out of my mind that I just thought of. But then later and I wish I thought of this, then I said to her, I thought of the idea. It’s like, how many men are you interviewing at this festival, asking them what they’re doing to make women feel safe in the green room that Louis C.K. is around? You know, like I get probably not why you go ask the men what they’re doing to make sure that he keeps his thing in his pants. Like, because that because guess what? Guys would be shocked if a reporter said, hey, you know, Louie is part of the festival. Are you doing anything to make sure he keeps his dick in his pants? They’d be like, why are you asking me that? That has nothing to do with me. And it’s like it has nothing to do with me. [00:43:11][123.3]

Jameela: [00:43:12] But that is the whole crux of the issue. You know, I think when we spoke previously, I told you I’d had this this brilliant man on the podcast just two weeks ago. Yes. Dr. Katz. Yeah. And he his whole life’s work is about educating men specifically to understand and therefore end their violence against women. He doesn’t he rejects the term violence against women because it’s passive and it doesn’t have like a protagonist. He insists on it being called men’s violence against women. And if it’s women’s violence against women that we call it that, and if it’s men’s violence against men, we call it that. But we never leave out the sort of like we never leave out the the the antagonizing person. I think that’s so important. I never thought about it because if you if you make it sound passive, then it’s like this terrible thing that happens to women. [00:43:55][43.3]

Beth: [00:43:56] Yeah She got r’d [00:43:56][0.4]

Jameela: [00:43:57] Yeah. She got (r roll)’d. Yeah. And and and she is a battered woman. Rather than this person battered her or this person assaulted her. [00:44:07][9.9]

Beth: [00:44:07] Right or even just like I listen to his work and listened to your podcast with him and I the other point too, he brought up, you know, the teen pregnancy. This many women, these many teen girls are pregnant. It’s like, who do you think did it? [00:44:19][12.3]

Jameela: [00:44:20] Yeah, they fall pregnant. What kind of terminologies where you just fall? I mean, I fall over [00:44:24][4.6]

Beth: [00:44:25] then it just makes you wonder, right? You’re just like, how insidious is it? Was it a mistake? Is it just like baked into our culture? And that’s why that’s been going on so long? or [00:44:35][9.8]

Jameela: [00:44:35] You mean the language? The language I think it’s deliberate. I think it makes people uncomfortable to hear about it. I think you look like the people involved in are incredibly corrupt justice system, uncomfortable. So they’re like, let’s change the terminology. So it’s not so explicit because of it, then it’ll be harder to deny. I think that that’s I do think it is very deliberate. What an uplifting podcast episode this is. Do you think do you think you will go back to stand up, since you quit? [00:45:12][37.5]

Beth: [00:45:13] I have, I have. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, I have. I. [00:45:18][4.6]

Jameela: [00:45:18] You’ve spoken before about how and I was wondering, you know, when you were saying, like, I just need to go back to work. You’ve spoken before about stand up not being an equivalent of therapy, but kind of, I don’t know, sometimes being therapy adjacent and sometimes re traumatizing. [00:45:30][11.9]

Beth: [00:45:31] Yeah, absolutely. I think so many people neglect to realize, even comics themselves, how powerful repetition is out of your own mouth. I mean, if you wake up every morning and look in the mirror and say, you’re beautiful and I love you, versus I look like crap and I hate my face, you know, like it’s powerful. So if I’m on stage every night or three times a week saying I’m poor, I’m so poor like this, I’m speaking in my old days in Chicago. Right. I don’t do this. I’m fat. I this whatever these things that, you know, as a young woman, you might find negative about yourself or, you know, dragging yourself down. It’s powerful repetitions, powerful and words are powerful. And so I think choosing what you talk about is so important. So I’m at the point now where I’m going, what do I want to be saying and saying a lot of because I feel like I’m not done because I’m still dealing with green rooms full of men that are terrified of getting accused of rape. I shouldn’t say full. Here and there. There’s not. [00:46:28][56.9]

Jameela: [00:46:28] Peppered with. [00:46:29][0.0]

Beth: [00:46:29] I’m scared of that. Yeah. Yeah, I shouldn’t say all. But yeah, it’s still still hearing it, I should say, from a handful of comics, because I also heard the exact opposite from some very powerful comics saying I’m not scared at all. Why would I be. [00:46:43][14.6]

Jameela: [00:46:45] Because they haven’t done anything wrong. Yeah, I know, I know it’s always very interesting to see who gets the most afraid of it. My boyfriend doesn’t walk through this industry being terrified. He doesn’t like he isn’t afraid to work with women. He’s not afraid to go into a room with a with a producer or a technician who’s a woman. He’s actively always looking for women to be able to work with and and be able to, like, share production stuff with and, you know, just do then to collaborate with. [00:47:09][24.5]

Beth: [00:47:10] Our friend Monica when they know. [00:47:11][1.1]

Jameela: [00:47:11] Exactly. Yeah. We have a mutual friend who is now going to be on his next record, which is so exciting. And he never, ever has the has the thought before going into that situation. God I really hope she doesn’t accuse me of sexual assault. Because it doesn’t, because it’s just not I mean. The odds of it happening are like being struck by lightning. The odds of being falsely accused of something are truly that rare. He’s a good guy who knows how to keep his fucking dick in his pants and the ends near to his pockets where they belong [00:47:42][30.6]

Beth: [00:47:43] and be a professional in the arts. And it’s possible so easy and so possible. It feels like a bit of a mess right now to me, to be honest. Just everything. How am I how am I moving forward? Like I mentioned, I don’t equate myself with Richard Pryor. But to my point is, I see those jokes. And at the base of it, man, I wish more changed. Right. So then I write my jokes and it’s like. Well, that didn’t work. I’m still in the green room two weeks ago and these things are getting brought up. So what do I do now? Do I choose to talk about it some more and and say things like. Are there any rape accusation survivors in the crowd before I get into this, you know, like what do I what do I do next? Like, what do I do? Is that what I want to be repeating? Is that what I want to be repeating? [00:48:38][55.2]

Jameela: [00:48:38] Look, man, even if you never talk about it again, you’ve done so much. You did something that that very few people have the ability or privilege or gumption to do. And you’ve spoken about it for years and you’ve been so open and honest. I think one of the things I really loved about the first time you ever really spoke about it in depth, which is six years ago, was the fact that you talked about the fact that it’s. Was complicated, you know, that it was a complicated situation that even after the the worst of the violence that occurred, you stayed you stayed with that person for two months. And then after like that, it’s not you know, it’s not a perfect situation where you left immediately and then went to the police and the helicopters. Right. [00:49:24][45.8]

Beth: [00:49:24] And my my desire to be believed and be so worried that people wouldn’t believe me. Details specific I got you know what I mean? I felt like I had to tell every detail. So you understand I’m not lying. [00:49:35][10.8]

Jameela: [00:49:36] Yeah. You were you were you were ready for someone to be like, but you stayed with him for two more months so it couldn’t have happened when you were you were you were pre what am I trying to say. [00:49:46][10.8]

Beth: [00:49:47] Meditated? Premeditated? [00:49:47][0.0]

Jameela: [00:49:47] Yeah you were no you were preparing you were preparing. [00:49:49][1.7]

Beth: [00:49:49] Oh, Yes. Yes yes. [00:49:49][0.2]

Jameela: [00:49:50] To be gasolit and to be shot at. And I think that what you said was so important and I think it resonated with so many people that bit specifically because there is no perfect victim, you know, just like there’s no perfect crime. Like you don’t always handle everything perfectly in the moment. I sure as shit didn’t want to happen to me. I stayed with that person for another eight months and continue to allow it to happen. And I’m just, you know, strong feminist. [00:50:13][22.8]

Beth: [00:50:14] Exactly. And there’s nothing wrong with if there’s women listening who are trying to leave and haven’t. It it happens. There’s many reasons to stay. I mean, like, I work with the YWCA of Dayton, my hometown in Ohio. And it’s like sometimes it’s a pet and there’s nothing wrong with you. Like, you know, sometimes people stay because a loved one or a pet, you know, that’s not that that’s there’s nothing we can’t relate to or understand about that, you know, or worried or fear. There’s just so many reasons. But, you know, another aspect of it has been said to me again recently by another comic, oh, you. Because you want to revenge. You said you said it because you were mad, right. By the way, this is someone who cares for me. He was kind to me who said that. And and they said we did for revenge. Right. Because you’re angry. It’s like. [00:51:00][46.7]

Jameela: [00:51:03] You didn’t name the person, for starters, other people named him later. Like, you didn’t name the person, you were just trying to get something off your chest, [00:51:13][10.0]

Beth: [00:51:14] because I was asked to keep it a secret and I wanted to talk about it. And I also needed to get it off my chest. I needed help. I also saw, you know, him driving another woman’s car around. And I worried I had already seen another person in our sort of community of comedy. And I and I worried. And of course, I reached out to a mutual friend and she said just, you know, like, I want that person to be careful. And then it was later that I said, you know what? I’m just going to say it. So I don’t have to tell every single person that says what happened with you guys and why are you at this thing and this or that, you know? And I was like, no, I’m going to get it off my chest. And it’s not because and to say and there’s nothing wrong with me being angry that he was fine or seemingly going on with his life. And like, it didn’t happen while I was the one who was supposed to keep it a secret and be in pain. So there is nothing wrong. If I had anger, that would be fully justified. But no, I didn’t set out to ruin someone’s life. I love that person and I wish that they got help. And then it’s also my job as. You know, to have compassion for my abuser, someone who not well and I want them to be well, I hope I wish that they would get help. [00:52:30][76.7]

Jameela: [00:52:32] Mm hmm. I feel the same way. Yeah, so it’s an odd thing to think it was tactical to harm them rather than just to liberate yourself. No one ever thinks that we have an entitlement to self-protection. It’s always considered overreaction. [00:52:45][13.0]

Beth: [00:52:46] Yes. And, you know, because I am a feminist, it doesn’t mean I hate men. I date one. You know, we’re painted as like this sort of anger and angry person and wanting to ruin people and hurt them and it’s just like. No. That’s not the case at all. [00:53:05][18.8]

Jameela: [00:53:05] You’d like no one to be in pain. You just don’t want to have to carry the hurt, not even just by yourself. You just want to have to carry the hurt at all. I completely I completely understand. I completely understand. The gaslighting is really extraordinary, though. You know, I told you this, I think over the phone, but when I was assaulted, the thing I was told by our mutual group of friends the following day because I was really shaken up. Oh, oh, no. But he’s so good looking like. One of them actually said that, you know, like he’s hotter than you, so he would never need to, he’s got girls throwing themselves at him all the time, like, why would he ever do that? And it kind of made me doubt myself for a minute where I was like, he is better looking than me. And, you know, I guess I guess maybe maybe I just didn’t say no loud enough or cry enough, you know, like maybe I wasn’t violent enough. Like, I was a violent all. I went completely dead, you know. [00:54:00][54.7]

Beth: [00:54:01] Yes, I understand. [00:54:01][0.4]

Jameela: [00:54:01] Yeah. And so, you know, because I think you always worry that you’re going to die in that situation, too. Sometimes you just you don’t fight. I’m also like I have the strength of a newborn baby. So I wouldn’t have been very effective. But they told me that and like that was the reaction of people who knew and and loved both of us. And [00:54:19][17.8]

Beth: [00:54:21] That’s so it’s very upsetting [00:54:22][1.1]

Jameela: [00:54:21] and it’s extraordinary. [00:54:22][0.7]

Beth: [00:54:24] And disappointing that, look, I didn’t I had you know, I had similar things of I mean, in the morning, I Googled. What is an abusive boyfriend? Because it’s almost just like I needed to see it before me and as time goes, sometimes because of the you know, like I mentioned, the people that stay are the ones who are mean and doubting. So then it creeps and it creeps and does more damage than I think I do like. Honestly, it probably wasn’t the healthiest thing. But before our podcast yesterday or we were planning to I mean, I dug up old things from lawyers and stuff where it says what he did because he wrote it and admitted so I to see that I go, oh yeah, it did happen. It was bad. Over the years, I’ve begun to not even sometimes believe myself, like it took me having those documents in my hand. So it’s sad that time can even eat away at that, let alone people who cared for you and said those things. I mean, I had a friend who he actually sort of started separating me from in our relationship and actually saying cruel things about her appearance and things like that. And she was the one who said. Oh, are you sure that is what happened? She feels guilty about it to this day, but then after I clarified and explained the whole situation, she stayed with me for four days, you know, like. There isn’t a perfect way to deal with it, and sometimes, you know, I guess the lesson here is if someone does come to you and try to share their story, [00:55:47][83.8]

Jameela: [00:55:49] just listen, just shut the fuck up and listen and ask how you can make them feel better. That’s where we are don’t try and rationalize it [00:55:54][4.4]

Beth: [00:55:56] The doubt will come from pretty much everyone else and mistakes happen right again. Another level when we were it was in on a job, they said, well, you know, you can’t rape your wife. Somebody said that. And I was like. Oh, you can’t. You know, that happens a lot to people, and he was like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe I said that, you know, and you say things sometimes and you just learn from them and go, oh, my gosh, I was wrong there. I tried to write a joke about that. What was it’s like to explain intimate partner violence it’s like, you know, someone going into a bank with a handgun and putting it up to the teller and saying, give me all my money out of my account. And then they call the police on you and arrest you. And you’re like, what? It was my money. It’s like, yeah, but it’s the way with which you did it sir. [00:56:41][45.1]

Jameela: [00:56:42] That’s such a great analogy. I’m going to use that. So fucking good. So fucking good. [00:56:49][7.4]

Beth: [00:56:50] Oh, I’ll tell you, it doesn’t work on stage. [00:56:53][2.5]

Jameela: [00:56:55] Well like we said, it doesn’t mean it’s not funny. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. It just means it doesn’t work for everyone. Right. [00:56:59][4.5]

Beth: [00:57:00] Yes. Yes. [00:57:00][0.4]

Jameela: [00:57:01] I think you’re I think you’re so smart and and cool and clever and I’m so grateful for the work that you do and amazed at how you are able to find the humor and the funny analogies in all of these things. I think sometimes because you’re funny when you talk about these things sometimes. And I guess that’s kind of why even though I quipped that, it’s like, oh, this is uplifting episode, it is also nice to hear the more serious side of you. But I, I always find it really frustrating that because in particular a woman or if you have a black person talking about racism in a humorous way like Chris Rock, because they’re saying in a funny way, people presume that it didn’t hurt because they’re able to joke about it. Sometimes that’s the fucking coping mechanism because it’s so fucking painful. What advice do you have for young people listening to this, like freedom victims, not victims, people who are victims? Like, is there any kind of and, you know, take your time with answering this question? It’s a big fucking question. But is there is there anything in particular you want people to know? Well, to consider, [00:58:03][61.9]

Beth: [00:58:05] I want things to be less divisive, you know, like just because something happened to me and I was honest about it doesn’t mean I don’t believe in redemption or healing. I’m not someone who was looking to I would like to bring light. It’s my job as I got that from Jim Gaffigan, I got to credit him. But it’s like. I want there to be more peace, like I think I forget what it was, I don’t want to drag the wrong person, but like with reporter or something did something like the battle of the sexes. And it’s just sort of like that shouldn’t be my field. It shouldn’t be male comics is female comics. It’s just sort of like. [00:58:45][40.2]

Jameela: [00:58:47] We’re fundamentally asking for help if and I’ve said I can’t even imagine what we should do, like a sort of drinking game of how many times I’ve said this on this podcast. But any time you go back through history, unfortunately, after after a certain amount or level of protesting of the oppressed, we still at the end rely upon the final mercy of the oppressor, however much we fucking hate to admit it. And so I very much so consider part of my work not just demanding the change, but also knowing that I have to beg for the mercy of my oppressor to let me be to let me walk down the street after sunset and not worry that I’m going to die. So, you know, to not spend every single second of my day wondering if I’m safe every time I open my door, wondering if the person on the other side is going to hurt me, you know, feeling unsafe in my bed when I go to sleep at night in case I haven’t locked one of my doors or locked all of my windows. Like I I’m begging for mercy from from men. [00:59:47][60.7]

Beth: [00:59:48] Yeah. And so, like Dr. Katz said it, we need more men to be brave to use the term that they hate. We, you know, like we need more men to be brave and sort of like speak up and help us out. [01:00:01][12.3]

Jameela: [01:00:02] Well, I look forward to more of your work. I’m very happy that you have not given up stand up because I love your stand up honesty. You are one of my favorite comedians. [01:00:10][8.6]

Beth: [01:00:11] Thank you Jameela. [01:00:12][0.3]

Jameela: [01:00:12] And I am so honored to be able to also, access this very like serious conversation with you where we were able to talk about these things so bluntly. And I thank you for being willing to still talk about this with me, in spite of how many fucking times you’ve had to talk about it already Beth Jesus fucking Christ. But this was the angle. This was the angle that I feel like we don’t talk about enough. Is the aftermath like [01:00:33][20.8]

Beth: [01:00:34] very much so. Because you want it to go away. [01:00:36][1.8]

Jameela: [01:00:37] Being able to talk about what happens to the women afterwards. Yeah. You want it to go away and or you want to be treated with dignity and respect afterwards. And very few women are. Well, thanks for doing that mate. And before you go, would you kindly tell me the question you’re afraid of answering most. The question. What do you weigh? [01:00:54][17.1]

Beth: [01:00:56] OK, because I told you I’m like a rule follower and stuff. I’m just going to mess it up or something. I’m like, how do I value myself? Like, how do I phrase it? So I, I just don’t want to get it wrong. But here’s my goal, I guess. How do I weigh myself. Like how do I want to see myself is through my friend’s eyes, my friends. I wish I could just pop into their brains or get behind their eyes and just watch them watch me for a day because they love me and I just want to be feel I just want to understand why. Like that. I just sort of like [01:01:28][32.1]

Jameela: [01:01:28] That is so sweet and relatable. I feel like so many of us feel that way. [01:01:32][3.7]

Beth: [01:01:34] So, yes, I want to weigh myself through how my friends see me, right. Yes. I weigh myself through how my friends see me. They do it right. [01:01:41][6.9]

Jameela: [01:01:42] I’m yeah. There’s no right way or wrong way. I won’t ask you to go into the specifics and then brag, although I love it when women brag, I it’s truly I think it’s my religion. Is women bragging. If you ever get to a point where you can love yourself as much as your friends, please come onto my podcast again and brag. Brag for an entire hour. I would fucking it would be so revolutionary to hear you just brag and fucking brag about even the way you spoke about your body image, like in your special was just so like. I love that we talked about having body dysmorphia, but the other way around where you are slimmer than you are or whatever, like but like the the matter of fact and confident way in which you talk about the way that you look or how you carry yourself or, you know, I don’t know, like different periods of your life where you weigh different things and you were fine with that. [01:02:31][49.1]

Beth: [01:02:31] And that’s changed over time, of course. Right. You know, like because of time and age and I’ve changed as a human and I’m just settled. I’m settled in. But, you know. Yeah, whatever I like you get it. It changes a human over time, and so you’re just changing your perspective changes and we should all be allowed to do that. I used to be much more self-deprecating. About my weight. [01:02:58][26.0]

Jameela: [01:02:59] Well, I’m glad that you’re. I’m glad that you’re not. And like I said, when you feel ready to come on and brag and let me know. But thank you. This has been such a pleasure. [01:03:07][8.3]

Beth: [01:03:08] Thanks you. [01:03:08][0.1]

Jameela: [01:03:08] And I so appreciate you. [01:03:10][1.9]

Beth: [01:03:10] I appreciate you too thank you for having me. [01:03:11][0.2]

Jameela: [01:03:11] I’m just going to call you right after this. So I’m needy. So goodbye for now. Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode I Weigh Jameela Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela Jamil, Aron Finnegan and Kimie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything check it out. You can get a free month of Stitcher Premium by going stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code IWeigh. Lastly, over at IWeigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at one eight one eight six six zero five five four three or email us what you weigh Iweighpodcast@Gmail.com and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. [01:04:11][59.6]

Listener: [01:04:13] I’d like to say that I Weigh, as everyone would say, their family, their friends, their. I do my intelligence, my love for movies, my love for dancing, my love for languages, I love learning languages I’m obsessed with learning as many as possible. I weigh my humor. I think I’m funny. I where I weigh my creativity, I weigh my love for travel. And I love my way and I I love my way. I weigh, um, my love for connecting with other people and. Yeah, that’s it really. Thank you love your podcast. [01:04:13][0.0]

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