EP. 210 — Celeste Barber Returns

Jameela Intro [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, a podcast against shame. I hope you’re well. I’m so excited always to be able to sit down with Celeste bloody Baber because she’s so funny, and mostly she’s so real. Often when she’s on this podcast, she’s giving us glimpses of her brilliant, genius, hilarious mind, but she’s also just so deeply authentic in a way that you can’t really find from anyone, anywhere near as famous as she is. And I think the reason that people have stuck with her for so long and they love her, they ride at dawn for Celeste Barber is because she, her relatability wasn’t an act. It’s real. She’s really here for all of us, and she shows us the light and the dark. And she didn’t have to. She could have just been a very silly Instagram influencer and comedian, and she was smashing it, but she made a choice to just open up about her life. And, both times she’s been on this podcast, she’s done exactly that. Last time she was on and she was talking to me about the difficulty of marriage and staying together for a long time, and her struggles with her mental health and ADHD. And this time we’re talking about, you know, where she’s at now several years later and depression and how you pull yourself out and how you, how you struggle with the idea of, I’ve been told I’m supposed to be super successful and that the dream involves, quote unquote, having it all, but does anyone really have it all? And does that feel good? Does that feel like anything at all other than exhausting and overwhelming? And I think a lot of us have been waking up over the last few years as to the lie of, quote unquote, having it all. We talk about the, the choice to have the bravery to say, maybe having it all means doing a bit less and spending a bit more meaningful time with the people that I love and living at my own pace. We talk about rejection. We talk about, the ups and downs of being a woman. We talk about the ups and downs of the expectations of being a mom and being a business owner, all sorts of things. It’s just a chat that I think or truly anyone will find a bit of themselves in. And so it’s just, she’s ideal. This whole chat feels like a warm, cozy hug and I look forward to your messages about it, but for now, this is the ever iconic Celeste Barber. Go and find her on tour. She’s doing a world tour and it starting in May.

Jameela [00:02:44] Oh, Celeste Barber, I love you. Welcome back to I Weigh. How are you?

Celeste [00:02:48] Thanks. I’m good, darling. Thanks for having me back.

Jameela [00:02:51] How’s, how’s your brain? How’s your mental health going, mate?

Celeste [00:02:56] Oh mate, my little brain’s okay. It’s okay. It’s it’s it’s very busy. I’ve got this new therapist, and she’s delicious. I’ve had her for maybe, maybe 18 months now, and I justm I love her, and I’ve been trying to, you know, outside of talking about career aspirations and marriage and children and relationship, I’m really trying to make an effort to talk to her about my brain, because so much of therapy for me is like, “Well, in my relationship, I need this from my husband or whatever,” but I’m trying to, in therapy, talk about kind of my relationship with my brain. And it’s weird because I think the last session I had with her, I was crying and I said to her, “I hate my brain. I hate that it’s so overactive that it doesn’t let me enjoy my success.”

Jameela [00:03:49] Well, the last time you were here you, I mean, there was a bunch we discussed, for example, the stress of marriage. You gave some of the greatest marriage advice of all time, which you said that you try to imagine that your husband has died, and then you feel really sad that he’s died, and then you’re like, “Oh, no, I love him.” And then that suddenly makes the love come pouring back in. And you have no idea how many marriages you saved with that advice. It really like it went viral and my audience lost it because it really did help, because it really gave us all that kind of big perspective reminder. I’ve used that several times, since you said it.

Celeste [00:04:30] It helps.

Jameela [00:04:30] It’s been really brilliant, yeah.

Celeste [00:04:31] It’s quite macabre, so haha it’s quite a full on thing, but it it helps. The thought of him not being around makes me go, “Oh, be nice, be nice because imagine if he wasn’t here.”

Jameela [00:04:41] Exactly, but without the darkness, could we see the light? Could we know the light? So, you know, I think that it’s it was really ideal. And you also spoke a lot about ADHD and the journey you were having with it and trying different meds for ADHD. And and that was a while ago now, so when you say that, like you hate your brain and you hate how overactive it is, is that because this is still something you are struggling with because, you know, even when you were talking about it and you kind of came out publicly talking about it, a lot of women hadn’t yet been diagnosed. And we’ve seen this like huge surge of, of women’s diagnosis of different types of neurodivergence. And so I think it’s it’s really helpful for a lot of people to hear what your journey has been like, you know, since then. Is it the ADHD that’s driving you mad?

Celeste [00:05:32] Well, I think it is, because I don’t obviously know life without it, so I assume that that’s a symptom of my ADHD. Now, you’re right, there’s so many people, since we spoke last, there’s so, so much more information out there about ADHD and so many women in particular coming up going, “Oh my God, that’s me.” I find it to be a bit challenging because I see so much online. And this is the fucking joy, isn’t it, of social media, how it’s just they put up the best bits saying “It’s a superpower. I just, I love it, I feel it feels like a superpower. I feel like having ADHD is, you know, I can do all these different things all at once. And I feel really empowered by it, knowing that I’ve got it.” And I’m like, “I want that sort of experience” because that’s not my experience with it. I can’t my brain doesn’t stop. And not only does it not stop, it doesn’t stop criticizing me. That’s the thing. It’s a lacking, it’s a lack of dopamine, so not being able to really experience much joy with an overactive brain is fucking exhausting. And I’ve changed up my meds. I think the last time we spoke was in Covid, I think. I was on a particular medication and it was just not good for me because it it peaked my anxiety. And you’ve got to find that balance, right? Because it’s a stimulant between the side effects can be to be a little bit anxious and how beneficial it is. And it was it was bad like it was crippling the anxiety. So I’ve actually gone back to the medication I was on when I was first diagnosed at 16, which is just Ritalin, and I do it three times a day. I set my little alarm like I did when I was in year ten, and that’s that’s been pretty good. That’s been pretty good for me to kind of go back to that.

Jameela [00:07:18] That’s great. Yeah. The the dopamine thing is really hard. And I don’t think people understand a lot about ADHD. And God knows I’m also not an expert on it, but I live with two people who have it very severely, and I’ve learned a lot via watching their journey that it’s truly like tasks that other people would find, you know, dull and tedious are almost agonizing to them. They would rather do anything than that. And it’s not, and it’s often mischaracterized as laziness or a moral failing, but actually they are genuinely struggling so much. And also rejection is so much harder for someone who’s already at a dopamine deficit. It just everything, everything is just fucking harder. And I really appreciate you talking about the fact that, yes, for some people may be ADHD, especially if they’re on the exact right meds, have the perfect support, etc.. And also, it’s a spectrum. They might be struggling with less ADHD than other people. But I love the fact that you are also saying that for some people it’s just fucking hard, because I think that the unfortunate side effect of those kind of videos is that it makes other people feel very alienating, like fucking hell, have we found another thing to fail at. I’m failing at ADHD. I’m shit at having ADHD.

Celeste [00:08:34] Yeah.

Jameela [00:08:34] That’s just too much.

Celeste [00:08:36] Exactly.

Jameela [00:08:36] And so I love the fact that you’re bringing your candor about, you know, like body and being a parent and life now also to mental health.

Celeste [00:08:44] Yeah, it’s I think because, you know, as you get older. Well, someone said who knows when they said this, but some fuckhead said that when you get older, life gets easier. I hate that guy because I’m not experiencing that at all. It was definitely a guy because I’m not, I mean, life’s great. I’m a very, very lucky, grateful person, but with my mental health, I find it’s no fucking joke. I think it’s kind of getting harder. I was talking to my therapist about that, where I’d say something like, “Well, you know, maybe because it’s it’s because I’m shit, isn’t it? That’s why.” Or something ridiculous and unhelpful like that. And she said to me, that’s when you start to unpack that and put that in your neurodiversity world, that’s a symptom of ADHD. That’s not who you are. That’s not what it is. So learning now, everything feels as though it is a symptom of ADHD. And that’s what I was saying, going back to hating my brain, I’m like, that’s annoying for me. I wish it could, like, I’m taking the pill. Can it fix it, please? But it just doesn’t work like that.

Jameela [00:09:43] Yeah, I don’t know. I feel like I’m having a different experience. And I also don’t have ADHD and I don’t have a dopamine deficiency. But for me, ways in which life is getting easier is just because I’m now recognizing that my brain struggles with my life the way it was, and I’m starting to take steps back like big fucking steps back. I say leaps back perhaps, when it comes to career and how much I put myself out there in the world and how much work I take on. And I pass on these amazing, like, fun projects I’m so lucky to even have access to. But it’s because it was it was breaking my it was breaking my mind. It was breaking my mental health. And it meant that I was away from all the people that keep me stable. And it was that was breaking my heart a little bit because I was losing connectivity. And I’m around a bunch of other very ambitious professionals, none of whom are really looking to bond with each other. There’s no affection, which is a good thing post-Me too. But there’s no there’s no real sense of, you know, there’s a kind of working community, but not in the way that you have the people that you love. And so, you know, having spent ten years, both of us in the girlboss explosion and, you know, being told you can have it all, you can have it all. And seeing glamorous, airbrushed women with shoulder pads, you know, quote unquote, having it all. And no one showing the nervous breakdown side of that was really unhelpful. And so the second I worked out that it was breaking me, I was like, “Oh, I have to tell everyone about this, that actually it’s I can’t cope at all.”

Celeste [00:11:22] No.

Jameela [00:11:22] And I’m really sick.

Celeste [00:11:23] Yeah.

Jameela [00:11:24] And I’m really unhappy. And actually I would like to find balance. And in finding that balance, I’m finding that things are becoming more manageable, but I but I and I, I hope that doesn’t come across as like, “Well I’m I’m getting better Celeste, so why are you failing?”

Celeste [00:11:38] No no no it doesn’t at all. No, I totally resonate with that as well because I this year for me 2024 and I’m not someone who’s like, what’s, you know, your New Year’s resolution or but this for some reason, this year I went, it’s all about shedding and slapping. So shedding the shit and slapping anyone that gets in my way, including myself. I’m really trying to be like, “No, cut that off now,” for that reason, because I don’t I don’t want it to feel as though it’s getting harder. I’ve achieved so much. I’m still doing so much, and I want to really try and get onto that. I don’t want to then be like, “Oh, it’s just harder now, so that’s what I do. It is just harder. Everything I do is harder.” Think about women. We have to do it all. And when it comes to work, I’m similar to you. I’m, I’m pulling back a lot because not only I’ve noticed again with social media, not only is it shiny, shiny and has to be perfect, it has to be lovely. But now there’s the other end of going, I need to show that I’m having a complete nervous breakdown. I need to show that I’m going through things and I don’t resonate with either of them completely. I kind of sit in a space of now going, “I’m, well

Jameela [00:12:54] What do you mean by that?

Celeste [00:12:55] Just, you know, there’s videos of on TikTok or something, someone will post a, put their camera up and go, “My husband,

Jameela [00:13:02] So, when they’re crying?

Celeste [00:13:03] My husband just broke up with me.” They’re sitting on the, just with all music and, you know, crying and sobbing and sobbing and sobbing, “I can’t. I’m spiraling, I’m spiraling,” and put it up. And then the next video will be like, “I can’t believe that went viral.” Now for me, I that’s not my jam. I, it may help people, but I feel, I don’t sit in either of those of going, I don’t want to show shiny, shiny shiny because that’s not, that’s disingenuous to me. But I’m also not willing to show the other side to stay relevant. I kind of sit. I’m trying to allow myself to sit in this space of going, “I’m going to give out as much as I want, and and you can take it or leave it.” It’s always want for me to post more. People, I’m always getting told, “Come on, you know, what do you think about these? What do you think about that?” And I’m like, I don’t think that’s for me. I don’t want that to go out to the world anymore.

Jameela [00:13:54] Do you find that during your, like, incredible rise that you had right in front of me? I feel like we both kind of came around the same time as in our sort of, like more global, like international careers. Was that as much fun as as it looked? But also, did that mean that last time with your kiddos and with your friends and husband and stuff?

Celeste [00:14:18] I, no, it was fun. It was not, it was fun when it was kind of happening over those good few years, it was fun. We kind of all did stuff together. It was hard, but it was really exciting. But now I think because I’ve been at a particular level for a while now, I’m not willing to keep just trudging it along. There needs to be moments of still like, I’m about to go on this world tour and I’m like, I, I need to a certain amount of time, then I need to go home. And I’m flying home to Australia from America for four days just so I can see the kids. And then I’ll go back out on the road because I’m not willing to be away from them for three months. Absolutely not. But when it was kind of all the exciting stuff was happening and people started to give a shit, that was that was great. Also that was like, eight years ago, we’ve been doing this for a while. We’ve been at this shit for a while.

Jameela [00:15:12] Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. And I know that, like, you’ve had some sort of really frustrating moments career wise, like, especially last year where you had this huge hit show. It was so funny. You were so brilliant in it, Wellmania.

Celeste [00:15:26] Thanks, mate.

Jameela [00:15:28] It was such a an important message and and it fucking did well. It literally did well. And then it got canceled by Netflix and you were amazingly, and I really mean it was amazing how vocal you were about it because I think a lot of people feel that way and don’t fucking say anything. And you just came out just being like, “Why has it been canceled? It’s done really well. Why?”

Celeste [00:15:47] No one was saying anything.

Jameela [00:15:48] And didn’t get an answer.

Celeste [00:15:51] I didn’t understand. It was like, is it just it’s not a secret because it’s just not going to come back so people will know. And also I’m the one in the street that people are like, “What’s happening with your show? I love your show.” You know, I’m the one getting inundated with messages and I’ve I’ve never ever treated my audience like idiots. I’m really, really grateful for my audience. You know, they’ve they deserve to be told what’s going on. I don’t you know, they’re not an algorithm to me. They’re mums and wives and ladies and men and what who spend time. They spend money to come and see me. They travel to come and see me on the road. They buy things of mine like I really appreciate them. And that character I played in in that show was such a great character, and that was a thing that broke my heart the most was so many women were like, “I see myself in her,” like we don’t see many characters like that on screen for women of a certain age. And so I just kind of wanted to let my audience know that it wasn’t going ahead. I had no idea that Hollywood Reporter or Deadline or whoever it was, people were going to pick it up and talk about it. But I just think it’s important to talk. Don’t treat people like fucking idiots.

Jameela [00:16:58] Well, it’s also crazy how streamers don’t tell the people who make these shows. I really don’t think people understand, like how cold this shit is. Like, you just one day find out it’s not happening anymore.

Celeste [00:17:10] No.

Jameela [00:17:10] You don’t know why you’re not even told how much, you are one of the rare people who made a TV show who even found out how well it did. Most people don’t ever get to find out how many people watched it, probably because then they’d have to be paid

Celeste [00:17:23] Yeah.

Jameela [00:17:23] Appropriately for the next job. So you’re just completely in the dark, and these people have all of the power. And it doesn’t matter how many people you touch with the show and how many people love it, how many people watch it and recommend it to each other. You can just have it all, take it, all that work that you poured into it for years, writing it, getting it to that place where where it was perfect enough to go out publicly, just gone. Is that an an emotional struggle? Because no one ever talks about that. No one ever talks about the the pain of that rejection, especially then if you’ve got, you know, a dopamine deficit.

Celeste [00:17:58] Right and also a mortgage to pay.

Jameela [00:18:02] Yeah.

Celeste [00:18:02] You know, we don’t get paid.

Jameela [00:18:04] Yeah.

Celeste [00:18:04] I don’t get paid to post on Instagram. All that stuff’s free. You know, it was also a just a job. And I’m a I’m an actor by trade and that, that never, never gets easier losing a job or, you know, not getting an audition or, you know, not getting a job from an audition that doesn’t get any easier, but then I kind of, I think I got to this level and I had so many fucking eyes on me as well that we made this show. And I was like, “Brilliant.” And and it should have gone ahead, you know, everyone knows that. And it just didn’t, and so instantly you just back to, “Oh, that’s right, it’s another job you’re not going to get. It’s not good enough. You’re not good enough.” Especially when it was my face, right? So all of that definitely plays into it. And you can’t help but think oh, I’ve probably done it then. I’ve peaked. And now that was it, like I’m, I had my Netflix show and I made out with Tom Ford. That’s probably it for me now. Which is fine I’m good. Like after the Tom Ford thing, I was like, “Well, I win,” but but you can’t. You just can’t in this industry.

Jameela [00:19:09] It’s such an iconic moment. Oh, it’s a brutal industry, like so many different careers, like whether it’s Hollywood or not. Like it’s just full of so much rejection and it’s so and there’s so little preparation for it, and there’s so much information about just sort of like, you know, I don’t know, like finding your inner grit and just, just, you know, I don’t know, maintaining a constantly positive mindset through the whole thing. And I really rate you for talking about how much that hurts and how easily it can make you turn on yourself, which I think is so upsetting because you’re so brilliant and you mean so much to so many people.

Celeste [00:19:55] Oh, thanks mate.

Jameela [00:19:55] You really, really are like, you’re so incredibly special. And it makes me want to like, fight, using all the moves that I learned during She-Hulk makes me want to fight your inner bully. Have you named your inner bully?

Celeste [00:20:08] No. No.

Jameela [00:20:09] Oh, well. That’s important.

Celeste [00:20:12] That is important, I hadn’t even thought, I hadn’t even thought of that.

Jameela [00:20:15] That’s, that’s really important. You’ve got to name it because you need to know who you’re fighting with.

Celeste [00:20:19] Yeah, right. Well, myself, I want to name it myself, but we need to give her another name.

Jameela [00:20:23] Mine is called Steve.

Celeste [00:20:24] Yeah, Steve.

Jameela [00:20:25] Mine is called Steve. Yeah. I argue with Steve.

Celeste [00:20:29] Oo maybe I’m going to get into Chad a bit. I think mine’s Chad.

Jameela [00:20:31] Chad is a great name for an inner bully.

Celeste [00:20:34] Chad’s a good name.

Jameela [00:20:35] Yeah. Chad’s a good name, because then you’re able to separate me and them. You know, that’s a different, that’s a different voice. That is a voice that was learned by by media and childhood bullying and not fitting in in the world. None of that’s real. None of that is your core identity. And I think it’s so important to to separate the two and really, like, give them characters fucking imagine what they look like if you have to. Because then you can actually like, you know, I really worked hard on learning to do this in the last ten years, which is like actually learning how to fight back and learning how to argue, so it’s like

Celeste [00:21:12] Yeah, right.

Jameela [00:21:13] “She’s a useless bitch.” It’s like, “She’s not useless. Actually, she’s just not feeling very well. And she did the best that she could, and she did way better than she ever expected because she left school at 16 and didn’t know anyone in the industry and didn’t have any fucking money and was totally, literally mental, like, literally mental.” I don’t mean that in like a derogatory slang sort of way, I was bananas. I can’t believe I’ve come this far. And so like, stand up for her. Just be like, it doesn’t matter. She doesn’t have to have the perfect thighs to deserve love or to get laid. Like I would stand up for myself the way I would stand up for a mate. The way I would stand up for you or anyone telling me the lies about our self-worth and and it helped just having Steve as the person to fight with. It’s like, fuck off Steve.

Celeste [00:21:57] Yeah. Fuck off Steve. Fuck off Chad. That reminds me, actually, of a thing that, my best friend I went to drama school with said to me years ago, she’s Marika, she’s now lives in New York. She’s a Broadway delight. I remember I was doing we were just hanging out, and I said something probably very shitty about myself. And she just looked at me and went, “Don’t talk about my best friend like that.” And I went, “What?” She goes, “Don’t you dare talk about my best friend like that.” And she said, “You need to talk to yourself the way that you would talk to me. So if I’m going through what you’re going through, how what would you do?” And I was like, “I would give you chocolate, we’d get some wine, we can watch movie. We’d tell everyone that they’re fuckheads.” And she goes, “Well, why aren’t you doing that for yourself?” I actually said that to my son the other day. My little guy, a ten year old, he said something a bit yucky about himself and I went, “Don’t you dare talk about my boy like that.” And I told him that story. It’s so hard.

Jameela [00:22:50] It is so hard.

Celeste [00:22:52] Fucking Chad.

Jameela [00:22:52] So them, okay, we’re in an industry that is just so full of rejection and and so full of the highs and lows. What what is your plan? Is it to fortify yourself? Is it to you know, you were talking about pulling back a little bit, what do you think is your strategy? And I know that you’re just sort of still in the middle of this, so you don’t have to give me any answer to this, nevermind a concrete one. But have you been thinking about what the plan is?

Celeste [00:23:19] Mhm.

Jameela [00:23:20] To handle this? Because

Celeste [00:23:23] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:23:23] So many highly ambitious careers, like I said, it could be medicine, it could be law, it could be this, something very competitive, and and especially when it comes to media where like every part of you gets analyzed and scrutinized and picked apart. How do you have a plan as to how to cope?

Celeste [00:23:43] Well, yeah, I’m kind of I’m pivoting quite a lot in my year of shedding and slapping because I kind of got to a point, I think it was it was, it was after Wellmania getting canceled. And then I think I had an audition for a gig, and they loved my tape. Amazing. All the fun things. And then I think it was really close, then they went, “Actually we’re going to make that role a man, but thanks.” And now that is not the first time that has happened. It’s not the last time it’s going to happen. I’m not the only person that happens to. That is the industry. But I think it was just a bit of a melting pot where I was like, “I’ve been in this relationship with this industry for 23 years, and I’m I’m not into it anymore.” There’s something in me kind of shift, not in a “Well, if the show went ahead and I got all the jobs, I’d be fine.” But I just had this moment of going, “I’m not as hungry and as desperate for this feeling anymore.” So I’m, I’m kind of branching out. I can’t really talk much about it, which is very boring, but I’m what I’m going to do other things that really makes sense to me. And when it happens, people will be like, “That’s fucking smart. That’s that’s a great idea.”

Jameela [00:25:00] Are you going to start a tummy tea brand?

Celeste [00:25:02] I’m starting a tummy tea brand. I just thought this is the best place to launch it.

Jameela [00:25:07] Oh my God. Let’s bring out a weightloss product together.

Celeste [00:25:09] I’m the face of

Jameela [00:25:09]  Let’s really blow shit up.

Celeste [00:25:12] Ozempic. I’m the face of Ozempic. Now there’s an Australian version of it. Jameela and I, we’re actually going to take it on the road. Imagine that.

Jameela [00:25:22] Oh my God. We would break the internet. You would never imagine it, no.

Celeste [00:25:25] No. God, I feel sick thinking about it. Yeah. Just because I, I can’t keep doing that. And I know to a lot of people it seems like, you know, for you as well that it looks like we’re here. We’re, like, killing it and doing all the things all the time. We’ve got stuff going on, but the fucking hustle that goes on behind it. I’m about to go on a world tour, like, oh, like it’s a lot and I love it once I’m there and I see all the people doing the show. It’s the best, but there just kind of comes a time where I’m like there’s, there’s a massive industry there that I fit really fucking well in, and I’ve proved that. I’ve proved my talent. I’ve brought a fuck off audience along with me, and I make things that go really well. Yet, I can’t, I can’t get a second season. I can’t get a job for role that I could do on my ear because they’re going to send it to a man. And I just was at a point where I’m like that, there’s no rhyme or reason in this industry. We’ve always known that, it’s just how it is. But I’m I’ve kind of it’s not so romantic for me anymore, that idea. I’m like, you don’t get to have my audience. You don’t get to have my creative IP if you’re going to keep treating me like shit.

Jameela [00:26:40] Yeah. What you’re talking about here, like, it’s funny because there’s two different ways to look at it, right? Like ten years ago, five years ago, even we’d be like, “Oh, she’s tapping out. She’s a quitter.” But I think someone like Jacinda Ardern, you know, the amazing former leader of New Zealand, was so iconic when she just was like, “You know, I’ve done it, I’ve done my term. I’m not going to run again because actually I don’t want to. I don’t feel like it.”

Celeste [00:27:08] Yeah. Yep, yep.

Jameela [00:27:08] She got fucking trolled to death nearly over it. And she has now become, to me at least, and I think to other people who are cognizant of the importance of this, she is the icon of protecting your peace.

Celeste [00:27:25] Mhm.

Jameela [00:27:25] I hear you talk about this and making shift and saying, “Oh, this thing causes me, this industry causes me anxiety as it is now. My life causes me anxiety as it is now. It perpetuates like horrible thoughts about myself, horrible scrutiny, so much pressure, so much slog and time away from the people and the things that I love. Like it doesn’t make me feel incredibly well. So no, I’m not doing that anymore.”

Celeste [00:27:50] No.

Jameela [00:27:51] I’ve had an incredibly lucky career where everything has been truly, I think, handed to me on plates at many points, and I feel super grateful. But for me, where it is is that I my, my just my tiny brain and my my my ailing body just can’t cope. I just can’t, I can’t cope, I can’t do it. I feel super lucky for everything I’ve had the chance to do. And and it’s okay to deem me ungrateful or a quitter or this on the other, but I just, I, I would rather be a role model for peace than anything else.

Celeste [00:28:23] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:28:24] And that I know how easily it can be disrupted by the quote unquote dream.

Celeste [00:28:27] Yeah.

Jameela [00:28:28] And so I really I really admire that you’re making that shift and talking about it and being so candid about it. And does it feel like something’s lifted after making these decisions and going through these motions?

Celeste [00:28:42] Yeah. It feels, I’m really excited. Like I’m genuinely excited about what I’m working on. And I’m really I’m really proud of myself because I’ve had I’ve had this in my mind for a really long time, for years. And now it’s happening. And, you know, I’ve got the greatest people around me helping facilitate it. I’m really proud of myself. And, you know, like anything, you know, you know, you live in a city and you kind of you hide it and you get over it, and so you leave. And then when you come back and visit it, it’s great. I, I’m already feeling like that with the entertainment industry. I’m like, well, I’m you don’t have everything of me anymore by choice. I’m like, all my happiness isn’t wrapped up in whether I get that audition or I get that job where it used to be. And that’s a nice, that’s kind of a nice, a really nice place to be in a healthy and much healthier place to be for sure.

Jameela [00:29:37] Speaking of a healthier place to be, the last time you’re on this podcast, as I sort of mentioned, you were talking about the like the frustration of of women having to kind of carry it all, right? Just to seamlessly be the mom, be the wife, have the career, do all of the things. Can I ask where you’re at with that? Because when we spoke on the phone, you know, you were talking about the fact that there still needs to be more conversation as to how fucking challenging it can all be.

Celeste [00:30:03] Yeah, it is really fucking hard. And I’ve realized it’s, a lot of it is, you know, the obviously the pressure you just put on yourself. I have a fabulous husband who is at home at the moment with those kids and couldn’t be fucking happier. It’s interesting though, he always has such an audience of people when they’re like, “Oh, what do you do?” And he goes, “I’m, you know, I’m at home with the kids.” They’re like, “That’s amazing.” And then my girlfriend, who’s on the other side who’s like, “Me too. Does anyone want to hear about that? What that’s like for me to be at home?” They’re like “No, you’re pretty,” but, he knows that as well. Well, I remind him all the time, I’m like, “See how all those people wanted to hear it, how amazing you were doing a lot of washing. That’s fun.” But, he, you know, he’s incredible. But the touring thing is really tough. I’ve, being away from the kids is really hard, and I’ve realized without sounding like the most fucking negative person in the word, you probably can’t really have it all. And I don’t know if I want it like I’m at the moment, I’m happier shedding things to enjoy what I have, as opposed to trying to accumulate more to say I have it all and not being great at any of it, if that makes sense. I remember P!nk said that in her she did a documentary about her world tour and she said, you know, and I watched that tour. I love P!nk. She was touring at the same time I was. Very differently. Like, she’s on, you know, private Jets and she’ll do like five shows in Paris so her whole family can go and stay there and it looks lovely. And when she was talking about it, she said that tour shaved years off her life because you can’t do that as a mom. She said there’s a reason why you don’t see many mothers on big world tours very often, and I thought, that’s really true. We just don’t, it’s hard. It’s hard. It rips you a lot to be away a lot.

Jameela [00:31:59] Can you elaborate on that as to what you mean by that? Because I’m not a mom.

Celeste [00:32:02] Well to be away from the kids, to be away from home life because I’ve got a 12 and a 10 year old now. Fuck, did that happen? Like it just, bang, it goes like that.

Jameela [00:32:13] And they’re developing so fast and they’re changing every day.

Celeste [00:32:16] So fast and they have experience now of their mom leaving a lot. It’s not I mean, they’re loved and it’s fine, but that’s their experience as well, so you can’t help but you know be aware of that. So trying to balance all that is just about impossible. So instead of trying to do all that, I’m trying to shed stuff. Like I was saying about the tour, I’m hardly doing anything like I did last time because it’s just it’s not worth it to me. It’s not worth my mental health and feeling like I’m not great at anything.

Jameela [00:32:52] Mhm. With the whole like the fact that you’re so hard on yourself, I find I find you to be this, like incredible juxtaposition, right when we chat of the fact that you are you are hyper self-reflective, hyper aware in one sense of like what you’re good at and how good of a parent you area and, and you know, you have a very strong and sturdy and healthy outlook on so many parts of your life, but at the same time, you struggle with this, immense like self-criticism. How does that impact being a mum, given how much mothers do? Especially like all parents I think are quite self-critical and feel like they’re failing, but women especially take on that burden. And then also that’s reaffirmed by society and how much we shame every woman. You know, there will be people who shame you for even going on tour at all, or for even having a career at all. How do you navigate being a mum in a world that is so shaming around motherhood?

Celeste [00:33:54] I think, I mean, I don’t have a little, a secret way of doing it. I just do the best I can, and I say that to my kids all the time, just do the best you can. I’m doing the best I can. I want you to do the best you can. And that’s, that’s all that matters. It’s important for my boys to know that I I love my job as well. I don’t want to I, I had to kind of keep myself in check that a few years ago, I was kind of getting to a point where every time I left the house I’m like, “I know, I’m sorry. It’s going to be the worst. I’m so sorry. I love you, but look, I’ll get back as soon as I can.” You know, just made it all negative and

Jameela [00:34:29] Mhm.

Celeste [00:34:30] Anxiety ridden, but I’ve changed that. It’s, you know, for quite a few years now I’m like, “It’s really cool what I’m doing. Are you seeing what I’m doing?” And I’ll send photos, and my 12 year old son, none of them have social media. Well, they’re too young anyway, but his mates are online. And he said to me, “Hello, mum. My mates have found you on TikTok.” And I’m like, “Okay. And you alright? How does that make you feel? Are you alright?” And he’s like, “Well, it’s just weird because you know, you’re naked.” And I went, “Well, first of all, I’m not. I’m never naked. I’m never naked. And also I’m no more naked than the other ladies in the video that I’m doing. Just pointing that out.” And, and then I started to kind of go on this spiel, and I was like, “You know, but you need to kind of understand that’s a-” And he just jumped in and went, “Do you know the Rock?” I went, “Oh no, but I could probably get you to him.” And then he saw a photo of me and Kevin Hart, and he went, “Oh, did you meet Kevin Hart?” I went, “Oh, yeah, we’re good here. We’re good here.” I’ll just throw some celebrities at you, and you’ll be totally fine. I’ll fund your mental health. I try and do a mental check with him, and he’s like, “Do you know the Rock?”

Jameela [00:35:38] I think that’s it’s incredibly important because we are talking about balance, right? We’re talking about the fact that don’t kill yourself, don’t drag yourself away from your family, but also a fulfilled mother is, I think, something that is so important, like your happiness, you being able to fill your cup, not just like being the sacrificial lamb for everyone. You know, as we’re seeing the kind of rise of the TikTok trad wife, you know, and each their own, live however you want to live, but the way that that is being hyper glamorized, which is interesting, isn’t it? Because the trad wives that are like rising to the top of the algorithm, they’re never doing like they’re never cleaning the toilet.

Celeste [00:36:14] No.

Jameela [00:36:14] They’re never doing like sort of menial tasks.

Celeste [00:36:17] No.

Jameela [00:36:17] They’re always dressed in a way that would have taken an hour to get ready at least. Like hair perfectly rolled.

Celeste [00:36:23] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:36:23] And they’re, you know, like making almond milk from scratch and, you know, just like.

Celeste [00:36:29] While pregnant at 6 a.m.

Jameela [00:36:31]  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And, you know, making 18 meals and snacks a day all from scratch and

Celeste [00:36:38] Mesmerizing.

Jameela [00:36:38] Yeah. Totally amazing. And and, like, good for them. But, like, who’s cleaning the house? Who’s doing the other stuff? Like, you are a privileged person who’s probably got someone else doing all that for you like that is not a reflection of what motherhood looks like. It’s not this idyllic hum, you know, with glamor.

Celeste [00:36:55] Yeah.

Jameela [00:36:55] And and a filter and, and and perfectly baked cookies. Like, that’s just not what that is.

Celeste [00:37:02] No, it’s really not.

Jameela [00:37:03] And so I think it’s quite a dangeorus, it’s a dangerous stereotype to glamorize.

Celeste [00:37:07] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:37:08] And I’m glad that you are able to maintain the thing that you love. And you’re so lucky to find something that you do actually love that doesn’t just make you money. You’ve managed to turn your favorite hobby and your favorite passion into a living. And and I agree, and it’s it, I’m glad that you found a way out of the guilt of that. And you’re aware that it’s really important for them to see a woman being fulfilled and living her full life as best she can.

Celeste [00:37:34] Yeah. And that’s that’s me trying to do that, what I was saying before with therapy, trying to not hate my brain instead kind of make a bit of space for all of it. So, it’s funny, Thomas, who’s my best friend and also my tour manager, he’s been my best friend forever. I’ve known him longer than I’ve known my husband and I, if I say something about Api my husband and they’re best friends as well, and I’m like “Fucking Api this or Api that,” Thomas will be like, “Might be time for us to go back on tour?” I’m like, “Yeah, you’re right, you’re right.” You’ve been. He’s like, “You’ve been at home too long now let’s get you out and then you can come back.” And I’m grateful for that balance.

Jameela [00:38:09] Yeah, totally. One other thing that we spoke about over the phone, and if if this feels too vulnerable, then you can tell me to go fuck myself and I will gladly, but

Celeste [00:38:26] Fuck.

Jameela [00:38:27] You told me that, you know, this new, delicious therapist of yours had mentioned to you that she thinks that you have depression, right? And again, this isn’t meant to be like, “Oh, Celeste is struggling.” Celeste isn’t struggling. Celeste is fucking thriving. Celeste is making big old changes in her life. But when we were chatting, you said you wanted to, like, speak openly about sort of the challenges behind the laughs. And, she was talking to you about depression and rage.

Celeste [00:38:56] Yeah.

Jameela [00:38:57] Do you want to? Was she talking about rage, or was I talking about rage?

Celeste [00:39:00] No, I think you talked about rage. No, no. I think you talked about rage. Haha.

Jameela [00:39:02] Was she saying you were? I talked about rage. She was talking about depression. And then I pretended to be your therapist and start talking to you about repressed rage. And I said to you that when I got diagnosed with depression in my 20s, I was told that it was, I had a lot of repressed anger. Because I’m not only a people pleaser and I’m a woman, but I’m also a clown.

Celeste [00:39:23] Yeah.

Jameela [00:39:24] It means that I, I bury so much stuff that I don’t even know how angry I am because I’m so quick to cover it up with a joke or a laugh. And it wasn’t until I let all of that rage out, which was on Twitter, which was unfortunate because the whole public saw that, but I couldn’t get better. And so I was wondering, you know, if you if that resonated with you at all.

Celeste [00:39:46] Yeah. It was just interesting to hear because I’ve always thought I was anxious, and I don’t know if I’ve been officially diagnosed with anxiety or if you need to be, or with depression. I don’t really know how all of that works. I just, you know my, know my experience, but I do get very, very anxious, very anxious. And I was talking with my therapist about it. Actually, I hadn’t seen her for a while because I was working, and then when I went back and saw the other week, she said, “I’ve been thinking about you. And I realized that I think you might not have, you know, anxiety, rather more depression.” And she said, “I just, you seem as though you have sad moments to you.” And I just went. “Yeah, absolutely.” I’ve never really kind of been scared of that. I’ve never kind of gone, oh no, don’t, don’t feel sad, don’t feel I’ll have a lovely cry in the shower weekly and cry and cry and just feel low and think about what it is and think about the feeling and move through it. I’ve always been like that. I remember when I was on antidepressants, I and the reason I came, one of the reasons I came off antidepressants was because I couldn’t feel. I wasn’t able to have those moments. I wasn’t I was just kind of coasting. And it was also, you know, I think antidepressants are good for obviously people that need them, but it’s it got to a point where I had been on them so long that we couldn’t remember why I was on them, so I came off them. And I remember then starting my feelings kind of starting to come out a bit more and not really being scared of it. And so I think now, you know, having been in therapy a bit, talking to her about it, she’s just identifying it, going that the anxiety might be a result of being depressed. She didn’t say I had depression, but I’m I’m okay with labels or no labels or whatever it is.

Jameela [00:41:46] Yeah.

Celeste [00:41:46] Because it doesn’t change how I feel.

Jameela [00:41:48] It is interesting to me and I like, like I said, I have the least amount of authority on any of this of maybe anyone in the world. I feel as though my two dogs have more authority on this conversation than I do, but when you describe the kind of industry you’re in and the life you lead and the fact that you are a mum, and then you’re also very online and having to look at all of this shit all of the time, and the current political atmosphere post-Covid and all over the world, and all these terrifying elections and the economy and everything that’s going on, like sometimes I wonder, like is it a pathology? And again, I speak about this all the fucking time on this podcast. I’m so sorry to everyone who’s heard me say it, but like how much of this is is us? How much of it is is the world we’re living in? Especially, I can’t imagine how the fuck I would cope with any of this if I was a parent, especially if I had kids who were about to become teenagers who were about to, like, inevitably be thrust into this increasingly terrifying world. It just seems highly normal to have a

Celeste [00:42:54] Right.

Jameela [00:42:55] A negative reaction. Yeah, and to be anxious all the time. You know, when you’re saying that you feel anxious all the time, it’s like, well, yeah, because you’ve got to keep two people alive and tried to keep a marriage together and then have this insane and completely unpredictable career for which there is no template. You’ve done it in a way that no one ever did it. Like you were the first person to really, like, take virality into actually or into a real career. You know, it used to be very separate. It was like internet people and TV people and stand up people. You merged the two and now you’ve forged a path for other people. It’s like, and then and then all the fucking shit and the rejection and the ageism and the misogyny that comes into this industry. Like, do you ever think it could just also be, a very classic reaction to all of that?

Celeste [00:43:40] Absolutely. And I think that’s one of the reasons why I wasn’t scared of it when she suggested it. I was like, “Yeah, right. Everything’s on fucking fire.” Like, I’m I’m not I’m not running away from that. I don’t think like, I don’t get really, really dark. I’m not like, I’m, I don’t think I’m clinically depressed or anything, but I definitely have sad moments. I have, you know, yucky thoughts about myself, all of that, but, I’m present enough of mind to know what that is and how that feels and how to, again, not be scared of it. I think if anything, I was more, being anxious is a really scary feeling. Being blue or low for me, I think because I’ve had it quite a bit. I know it passes and I just try and pass through it.

Jameela [00:44:28] Yeah, and also like I, like I said, there is dopamine deficit there. Like there are real there are real chemical things that happen that also cause depression in many people. I’m never saying it’s all just external circumstances, but I do think we get a bit gaslit out of going, this is fucked.

Celeste [00:44:45] Yeah.

Jameela [00:44:45] This is just all really fucked.

Celeste [00:44:47] Yeah.

Jameela [00:44:47] And actually, I’m more suspicious of the people who are fine.

Celeste [00:44:51] Yeah, because they’re dead inside. I’m exactly the same.

Jameela [00:44:52] I mean, yeah. I’m like, what’s happening here? Like, why are you this positive or just like, why are you okay? And so

Celeste [00:45:00] Yeah.

Jameela [00:45:00] When I start to identify that, at least for myself personally, that I’m actually having what is technically quite a normal reaction to an abnormal career, an abnormal life, an abnormal, you know, being in social justice and being so public and being torn limb from limb with such personal attacks and death threats and rape threats and people finding out where I live and like paparazzi, and then just like the childhood trauma coming up and family shit and trying to keep a, you know, relationship going for nine and a half years when you’re, like, both touring all over the world and even just like loving my dogs as much as I do is so stressful. One of my dogs ate a full stick today. She ate and swallowed the full fucking stick whole, and now I’m just wondering all day if she’s just gonna tear her asshole out. I have no idea what’s gonna happen.

Celeste [00:45:48] It’s fucking terrifying.

Jameela [00:45:49] I was like, all of this, and then the what’s happening in the world, or what’s happening in the global politics and what’s happening in this country, and women are having their rights taken away, and I feel so completely fucking helpless. I start to realize I was like, shit, I don’t think this is all my brain. I don’t think this is a me thing.

Celeste [00:46:04] No.

Jameela [00:46:04] I really think this is, I might be too aware of what’s happening. And when you really start to understand that, you know, we’re supposed to make, what is it? I think I talked about this with Amanda Montel a few weeks ago. That we were, our brains are designed to make about 124 executive decisions a day.

Celeste [00:46:21] Wow.

Jameela [00:46:22] Now we are making that many executive decisions before breakfast now, even in like, “Oh, I like that. I don’t like that. I feel this about myself. Oh, I need to do this. I need to go and do that.” We are not built, our brains are not built for this level of fucking overstimulation. Never mind if we’re largely living our careers and lives online.

Celeste [00:46:41] Yeah, yeah.

Jameela [00:46:43] That’s why I decided to pull back, because I was like, “I’m fucking sick and miserable. And I think it’s actually very normal.” What if, because I love to do these big experiments on myself where I treat myself as a crash test dummy, and I was like, what if I just do a sort of life elimination diet again, like I did ten years ago, which took me out of a nervous breakdown? I was like, now that I feel a bit, I feel a bit sick again, I’m going to do a big old elimination diet. Started changing my social life, changing everything, changing my online habits, how much news I allow myself to take in, how much I engage in my career, how much I engage even in certain parts of politics. Even though I know that I, you know that I have a duty to be very, very present and my brain is starting to repair.

Celeste [00:47:26] Yeah.

Jameela [00:47:26] So I am really interested to speak to you like a year from now when you are living at like really in the like flow of this new life and this new decision and you are post-shed and post-slap.

Celeste [00:47:40] Yeah.

Jameela [00:47:40] I’m, I’m really excited to speak to you and find out how you’re doing then because

Celeste [00:47:46] Yeah, that’s exciting.

Jameela [00:47:48] Everything you say to me about how you feel just makes sense. Not the bits where you shit on yourself. That makes no sense. I’m going to fight Chad.

Celeste [00:47:55] Fucking Chad. Well, now we’ve all met Chad.

Jameela [00:47:58] Yeah.

Celeste [00:47:58] Chad’s going to cop it. Sorry to anyone out there named Chad who’s delicious.

Jameela [00:48:02] Yeah. I mean, Chad’s really had a, Chad and Karen really had a rough time with names because Chad was the sort of incel name. But yeah, I hope anyone out there who resonates with this also just considers that that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take meds, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be exercising regularly for your mental health and, you know, eating nutritionally and spending time with loved ones and getting as much affection as you can because that’s so good for us. But really do look into your cortisol levels. Really do look into the stress of existing now, especially if you’re a woman, especially especially if you’re a mom.

Celeste [00:48:36] Yeah.

Jameela [00:48:37] And you’re a breadwinner. It’s a fucking lot. It’s so intense.

Celeste [00:48:41] It is. My dad said to me a year or so ago, he said just on the news thing. He goes, “I don’t watch the news anymore.” And I was like, “Huh?”. And he said, “I’m 80% happier.”

Jameela [00:48:54] Wow.

Celeste [00:48:55] I went, “That’s interesting.” He goes, “You know, I’m 73. I need to be aware of my heart and where I’m at, and it just makes me, that’s one thing that is making me feel better, not watching all that doom and gloom.” Good, Neville.

Jameela [00:49:12] Talk me through this because I really struggle with this personally because I feel such a sense of duty and responsibility, and we live in a culture that, you know, makes people feel very ashamed if they are not constantly engaged. And I’m not talking about famous people, I’m talking about everyone. Everyone I know is shaming everyone I know.

Celeste [00:49:30] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:49:31] About not knowing the newest piece of updated information, not having all of the facts, all of the figures and and I get where that comes from, right. I, I totally understand that. I feel frustrated when the men in my life aren’t saying shit ever about what’s happening to women’s reproductive rights. I totally understand that burning rage of like, how the fuck can you not care? But I also can recognize that having my cortisol triggered all day, every day by being completely aware of what’s happening all over the world at all times is fucking, not just destroying my mental health, but it’s actually on a fundamental hormonal level, fucking with my hormones. The cortisol is fucking with my estrogen. It’s fucking with everything, so what do we do? Especially as people with big platforms who have a duty to, like, make sure that we are using what we have to help as much as we can.

Celeste [00:50:20] It’s I find it really, really hard this stuff, because after what happened with the fires that we had in Australia a few years ago.

Jameela [00:50:27] Yeah. Where you raised $50 million.

Celeste [00:50:31] $51 million? Yeah.

Jameela [00:50:33] Mhm.

Celeste [00:50:33] Which was huge.

Jameela [00:50:35] It was insane.

Celeste [00:50:36] I’ve kind of gotten to a point, be it right or wrong, and I, this isn’t set in stone, I don’t know. I’m still, you know, you still navigate your way through it. I’m like, if I can’t help I don’t want to be taking up space banging on about it. And that’s what my dad was like “I can’t I can’t watch you know something going on. And it just, it devastates me. It just fucking devastates me. And I can’t help so I what’s I can’t do it. I can’t do that to myself anymore.” And I feel in a similar way, not about everything, but I get, oh my God, you can you do as well. It’s because of the fires I get inundated with things. Why aren’t you lending your voice to this? Why aren’t you doing this? You should be doing this. It is your duty. You should be.

Jameela [00:51:24] Yeah.

Celeste [00:51:25] Women need to free the nipple. Why aren’t you leaning in on women freeing the nipple? I thought you were a feminist. And I’m like, “Oh, fuck, I don’t know what to do here.” I find it really, really overwhelming because if I went “Free the nipple” and that meant it was equal rights for women and men everywhere, I would fucking do it. I would absolutely do it. But it doesn’t. It doesn’t happen. And I get I get very, very overwhelmed with people, it just kind of that, you know, like inundated with people saying you should be lending your voice to all of these things. And I

Jameela [00:52:02] Yeah.

Celeste [00:52:02] I don’t know what to do.

Jameela [00:52:03] Yeah. I remember like sort of I remember being on October 7th, maybe within like ten minutes of the news of what happened. I was on a plane and I was getting DMs from people saying, “Your silence is deafening.” And I was like, “About what?” I hadn’t even heard yet because I had patchy Wi-Fi on the plane, and I just gotten a bit, and I was just like a barrage of abusive messages accusing me of all kinds of shit and and being complicit and being silent. And I was like, “Wait, when did this happen?” And it was like, it broke the news broke within within that hour.

Celeste [00:52:39] Yeah.

Jameela [00:52:40] Like maybe within that 15 minutes, like it had just broken. And the immediacy with which people and the reason I bring this up is not to be like, “Oh, it’s so hard to be a celebrity. Everyone wants you to help.” That’s not what I mean, I mean, this is happening everywhere. None of my mates are in this industry and it’s happening at school. You’ve got kids shaming each other over this stuff, universities, like people are falling out over it. It is really hard because how do we explain to people the neuroscience of what we’re actually designed to be capable of absorbing?

Celeste [00:53:07] Yeah.

Jameela [00:53:07] Like how long can that how how long can we then be helpful as individuals? And I’m talking to you who works in a shop or is at uni or is working in an office, like if your brain is literally not yet evolved enough to handle this much information, the same thing that enables us to be able to walk past someone who is homeless, or someone with a child who is homeless. That means that we switch off in that moment, the empathy part of our brain has to switch off so that we can carry on with our day otherwise we would stop at every single homeless person that we see. We all have that capacity. We’ve now started to have to do that for everything we see on the news. You hear about a fire, you hear about a plane crash, you hear about a war, you hear about whatever. It’s only kind of making us more desensitized. It’s not bringing us really much closer together. It’s turning us, we’re dehumanizing people and ourselves much, much more. And this is science, so how do we have the public conversation of, like, it is so important to be informed, but we need to lessen the amount we take in and maybe just have an hour. You know,

Celeste [00:54:09] Yeah.

Jameela [00:54:09] That’s what I liked about growing up in the 90s, where it’s like it was the 6:00 news, or it was the 9:00 news.

Celeste [00:54:14] Absolutely.

Jameela [00:54:15] And so it’s like, that was my hour, where I got all the information I could, and from the next 24 hours, I am not updated beyond that. And that felt healthier.

Celeste [00:54:24] Palatable.

Jameela [00:54:24] Yeah.

Celeste [00:54:25] Yeah.

Jameela [00:54:25] It felt like my brain could just about cope with that.

Celeste [00:54:28] Yeah.

Celeste [00:54:37] Absolutely. Yeah, my boys don’t have any of the socials and they’re not about to get them anytime soon.

Jameela [00:54:45] I was going to say, what’s the age? Is it like some people I know are like, if they can’t drink or they can’t smoke, they can’t use social media because it’s as dangerous. What’s yours?

Celeste [00:54:52] Yeah. Well, I don’t really have an age because so many of my kids friends are on it, and like my kids don’t play Fortnite, none of that. I feel as though I don’t know, I don’t have to be like, “Well, when you’re 16, you can have it or when you’re 13, you can have it” because all of their mates already have it. They feel like they’ve kind of already missed out, so it’s like well we’re kind of used to just not having it now.

Jameela [00:55:16] And can I ask because I’ve got mates who’ve got kids, what do you do with the fear that they’re going to resent you for the fact that their mates can do these things and they can’t? Do you come up against that? You come up against them.

Celeste [00:55:28] I come up against, I have to a fear that they will resent me for a myriad of other things, the gaming and the social media, I don’t care. I’m I’m very happy with my decisions. I have some of their their friend’s parents will say to me, “How did you do it? I can’t, I can’t get him off.” And I was like, did I say I can’t get him off? I can’t get him off the games.

Jameela [00:55:50] Yeah. Haha!

Celeste [00:55:50] And um, wow. And I’m like, “I don’t, I don’t know, my, my kids hate me for a couple of days. And then we kind of get through it.” It’s tricky though now because kids are like, well, what am I going to do? I’m like stare at a wall, I don’t know, figure it out. I’m not now here to entertain you, but you just you’re not sitting on it, and and he’s like, “Oh, I wanted to, you know, I want to get that game so I can play with my friend.” It’s like get your friend to come over and they’re like, “What is that? What?” I’m like, “Your friend can come over and you can do the whole IRL thing,” and that my kids are good at that because they don’t have any of the games, but a lot of their mates are like, “I don’t want to see your face.”

Jameela [00:56:29] Right. Yeah. God. Well, so then what do they do when they hang out?

Celeste [00:56:34] Bitch about me mainly because I don’t have games and.

Jameela [00:56:38] Hahaha!

Celeste [00:56:38] No, but you’d be surprised you put them in a park, they’ll find a tree, or they’ll find they’ll make stuff and blow stuff up.

Jameela [00:56:49] Well, I didn’t say that as if I can’t imagine it, because I can imagine it because that’s what I did. But nowadays, looking at teenagers now, like I can’t imagine a kid not armed with an iphone.

Celeste [00:56:57] But it surprises me as well. I’m like,

Jameela [00:57:00] Yeah. It’s it’s it’s so important. Good for you. Good for you. May we, I guess you’re just now starting to create those boundaries for yourself as well. The same ones that you’ve used to protect them.

Celeste [00:57:09] Exactly.

Jameela [00:57:10] So given all the changes that you’ve been going through and the fact that you are learning how to protect your peace. You are changing your life dramatically and looking after yourself truly, like really holistically. As someone who has thought a lot about wellness in your life, is there anything you would want the people listening to this to know?

Celeste [00:57:31] I think mainly for people to know that just do the best you can. This is what I’m I’m starting to say as a little mantra for myself. I’m like you’re just you doing the best you can, and that is enough. And that is excellent. And you just need to kind of back yourself. I’m really, really trying to put that into practice. Like with this, this new venture that I’m doing, I’ve really backed myself on it. And and it feels nice. It feels nice to trust my decision making, whereas I don’t really do that. So I would say that to people to like, trust their decisions, even even though, you know, it might not be the popular thing to do or it’s not overwhelming or not the best thing that’s going on. If it feels good for you and it’s not hurting anyone, just go with it. Yeah.

Jameela [00:58:27] And never, ever, ever believe the lie that you can have it all. I’ve never met a single fucking person who has it all. Even the people who are the face of having it all publicly. I’ve met them. They don’t have it all. It’s fucking bollocks.

Celeste [00:58:42] No. You know how people say, step outside of your comfort zone? It’s always good, you know, you get to a point where you just need to step outside your comfort zone. Why?

Jameela [00:58:53] Oh, my God, I love you so much for saying that.

Celeste [00:58:56] I don’t know why people, I don’t know who was the man, here we go again, that was like you need to step outside the comfort zone. I think in today’s day and age, if you with everything that’s fucking going on in the world, if you manage to feel comfortable, a little warm, maybe a bit stagnant, but safe. Fucking stay there, stay there.

Jameela [00:59:18] Exactly.

Celeste [00:59:18] Don’t change.

Jameela [00:59:19] Oh, this is why I love you. This is why I love you because I feel like you’re inside of my brain. This is how I feel all of the time. I went on a like a mindset podcast, sort of like it was called High Performance, and all I spoke about for the whole hour was just like, “No, don’t, don’t step outside of your comfort zone.” Like, you know, like, of course, try it. Of course do things that, you know, like, of course, that have a healthy attitude towards failure. And I do, and I have a comfort zone within failure because I failed so much in my life, so I’m very comfortable there. But I was very much so, like, “What are we doing? Why are we trying to be so uncomfortable all the time?” What was that quote that I think, like Will Smith or someone else repeated where he was like, like happiness or something is on the other side of your greatest fears. And I was like, “No.”

Celeste [01:00:05] No, you can have that.

Jameela [01:00:06] My greatest fear is, you know, being attacked by multiple people at the same time. I don’t know if my happiness is on the other side of that.

Celeste [01:00:12] Yeah. I don’t know if I want to go through that to get to the other side of it. I don’t know what the fear is about people being comfortable. I don’t know what the it’s such a societal thing as well, going, you know, you have to step out, expand and also like you say, stretch yourself. Exactly. Do

Jameela [01:00:26] Try things.

Celeste [01:00:26] Do things that you know, you might want to

Jameela [01:00:27] Try things but don’t like, I just don’t believe in like

Celeste [01:00:29] But if you want to.

Jameela [01:00:31] Yes.

Celeste [01:00:31] Only if you want to. Don’t feel like, “Oh, God, well, this feels nice. I need to shake it up because it’s comfortable.” I don’t know, I don’t I don’t like that guy who said that.

Jameela [01:00:40] No.

Celeste [01:00:41] Live outside your fucking comfort zone.

Jameela [01:00:43] It is a man. Chase comfort. Chase peace. That’s what I’m doing.

Celeste [01:00:47] Chase peace.

Jameela [01:00:48] Yeah. I’ve had a lovely, I’ve had a lovely time. I’ve tried some really scary things. I don’t regret much of it. But I do know now, and I’m so happy to be older and and slightly wiser enough to know that the success and the goal is the safety and the peace.

Celeste [01:01:08] Yeah.

Jameela [01:01:09] And the being warm and the happiness like that is all I’m working towards now. And if if work gets to be a part of that, great. But I’m selling my house. I’m living a cheaper life. I’m, I’m, I’ve been selling all my clothes. I’m just

Celeste [01:01:25] I’ll take some clothes.

Jameela [01:01:26] I’m just, yeah, sure. I’ll, I’ll send them right over to you or you can come pick them up on your world tour.

Celeste [01:01:31] Oh, yeah.

Jameela [01:01:31] But it’s it’s exciting because now I now I know what I’m actually supposed to be chasing. And they fucking came up with this shit thousands of years ago.

Celeste [01:01:40] Thousands of years ago.

Jameela [01:01:41] And I think I’m so wise on my little fucking podcast chatting about it. Haha!

Celeste [01:01:45] Hahaha! Blowing it all up. Blowing it all up. We’ll show them.

Jameela [01:01:49] Selling my material goods. Inventing that.

Celeste [01:01:52] I’m selling my clothes. Look at me. This is peace.

Jameela [01:01:54] Yeah. I’m done with material. I’m not done with materialism. As as Madonna said, like, you know, you can be into spirituality and also be a material girl in the material world.

Celeste [01:02:04] And what is just what was that line? She goes, you can, you can be a spiritual person, but still like Prada. It was like, yeah, that was it. Haha! So true.

Jameela [01:02:13] But yeah. Listen, I think we’re, as ever, on a similar ish path. I really, I don’t know how you manage as a parent. I think you are exemplary. I think all parents are exemplary. It’s the reason I’m not doing it is because I know I don’t have it in me. I, I’m so excited for this journey that you’re on, and I thank you for being so incredibly candid and as cool as ever on this chat. It’s so much more important than you’ll ever know to so many people,

Celeste [01:02:40] Oh, thanks.

Jameela [01:02:40] And last time you came on and were this candid meant the world to my audience. So thanks for coming back, and good luck.

Celeste [01:02:48] Thanks, mate.

Jameela [01:02:49] With all this new shit.

Celeste [01:02:50] Good luck to you selling all your things.

Jameela [01:02:51] Thanks. And everyone go see Celeste on tour because she’s fucking amazing. When does it start?

Celeste [01:02:58] The 2nd of May.

Jameela [01:02:59] Second of fucking May.

Celeste [01:03:00] In in LA.

Jameela [01:03:01] Where can people go and get their tickets?

Celeste [01:03:03] celestebarber.com

Jameela [01:03:04] Okay, everyone go there.

Celeste [01:03:06] We’re good at this.

Jameela [01:03:07] Love you.

Celeste [01:03:08] Love you.

Jameela [01:03:08] Bye.

Celeste [01:03:09] Bye.

Jameela [01:03:14] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan, Kimmie Gregory, and Amelia Chappelow. And the beautiful music that you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. And if you haven’t already, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show. It’s such a great way to show your support and helps me out massively. And lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. Please email us a voice recording sharing what you weigh at iweighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners.

Listener [01:03:48] I weigh the amount of care and love I have for other people. I weigh the passion I have to help people who are struggling with their mental health or body image. I weigh that my desire to make a difference in the world. So thank you so much for doing this and hopefully we can talk again soon. Okay, bye.