EP. 49 — Diane Guerrero

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. I’m tired, very tired. I’m tired because I’ve had no sleep because all week I have spent my nights looking at my phone, doing the exact thing I’m not supposed to do because I cannot stop reading the coverage over the Meghan and Harry interview. This has been going on for bloody weeks. As soon as it was announced they were doing this interview, this press and palace onslaught has just been like nothing I’ve ever seen before. No one even knew what was going to be said in the interview. And so considering how tame and dignified that interview has turned out to be, it does make you wonder what must have really happened for the presumptuous, anticipatory response before it had even aired to be so strong, all of these random claims of of bullying. And listen, I have no idea what happened. I wasn’t there I just think it’s a bit weird that it happened years ago. And there’s suddenly an investigation being called in a couple of days before a big tell all interview that she’s about to do. I think that that is suspect timing. I think that’s a fair thing to say. I’ve often said that discredit is the new death and what a clever way to quickly try and discredit her over bullying because you’re afraid she’s about to out you for bullying. It’s is embarrassingly transparent. And, you know, and and the fact that there isn’t an active investigation going on with a family member who’s been accused of of inappropriate sexual activity with minors to do with Jeffrey Epstein. So it’s all been a bit suss and pretty shocking and then amazing to watch this interview come out, which has been so empowering. And and for it happened the the week of International Women’s Day, a man and a woman coming out together to talk about the treatment that this woman has faced, a man standing by his wife and a woman sticking up for herself, advocating for herself, advocating for kids who look like her, advocating for representation, advocating for just being allowed to have your freedom and have your say. I think she’s so empowering. I think what she’s done is so cool. It sets such a great example for us, you know, in in a time where a lot of us have felt trapped in indoors with people that aren’t treating us appropriately. I’ve had so many letters from all of you about various situations that you’re all in, that you’re all feeling stuck in. And to have someone stand up and publicly just say, no, I won’t I won’t tolerate this anymore, I think is so important and empowering and a big old fuck you to the tabloid media to in fact, to the mainstream media that participated in it. What The Times did and the way in which they try to character assassinate her was so out of character for much traditionally more careful and esteemed publication. They felt very tabloid-y. And and I am hoping from what I’m seeing online, that there is a shift post the Britney documentary, post the Paris Hilton documentary, and now with this extraordinary attack of a couple doing an interview. And by the way, the attack has all gone on to her. People are acting as though Harry has no agency. He’s been a lifelong, outspoken rebel of the royal family who’s often spoken of his problem with the UK press and how it makes him not want to live in England and how his freedom has been taken away and and how he you know, he he carries blame for their treatment of his mother. And yet the whole focus has been on demonizing her and almost as if he is let her force him to do that interview, whereas it does not appear to be that way. He’s he’s always been a very empowered and strong man. Anyway, it’s just I’m sure you are sick to death of hearing about it. I’m not gonna keep banging on about it, but pay attention to this. This is everything that I have been signal boosting and talking about for the last year now since it happened to me, be very wary of the rhetoric. Be very wary about the ways in which a woman’s narrative is crafted. Ask yourself why. Ask yourself why you distrust certain women. Did it come from them? Is it something they did outsource or was it the way that they were spun by the media? Why do we hate outspoken women? Why do we hate strong women? It’s just it’s been stressful to watch, but also excellent to finally see it all play out in the open in a way that can no longer be so easily denied. Now, speaking of strong women, I have quite the guest on the podcast today. Her name is Diane Guerrero, and you might know her from Orange is the New Black or Jane the Virgin or so many other wonderful acting projects. Or you may know her from her extraordinary work, her public work in immigration reform. She speaks about many different causes that impact lots of different communities. She’s a strong advocate for anyone who feels left out or excluded or harmed by our system, but her work within immigration reform and how much awareness she has raised via telling her own incredibly personal and incredibly heartbreaking story of her parents being deported back to Colombia when she was at school, when she came home as a teenager to no family. And she will talk about this in the episode and and how that went on to impact the rest of her life. She’s she’s so raw in this interview, and we both cried a little bit, and I also want to warn you that there is talk of suicidal ideation in this interview because we’re both talking very, very boldly and honestly about how our trauma has played out in both of our lives at times. But it does have a happy ending and it is a hopeful episode and it’s full of practical advice and a practical journey out of it. So I don’t want you to feel like it’s just going to make you feel bad about yourself. I would hope you will leave this episode the same way that I have, which is feeling incredibly empowered and inspired and less alone. She’s just not like anyone else, especially not in this business. There’s no facade with her. She’s just right in your face. And we met in such an intense and wild way. And we talk about that. And and there’s just a feeling of sisterhood and community throughout this episode that I felt grew. And so I’ve I’ve fallen madly in love with her. She’s fucking brilliant and she’s super smart and an extraordinary example of resilience, even when it’s really, really, really hard, even when you get in your own way. So please join me in falling madly in love with the excellent Diane Guerrero. [00:07:02][422.7]

Jameela: [00:07:20] Diane, welcome to I Weigh. How are you? [00:07:22][2.6]

Diane: [00:07:23] I’m so good, thank you for having me. It’s an honor and a pleasure. [00:07:26][3.2]

Jameela: [00:07:27] It’s definitely my honor. I’ve been a fan of yours for a long time now. And and I’m sad that we don’t get to do this in person. Fucking covid fucking me again. [00:07:39][11.9]

Diane: [00:07:41] Just constantly fucking us. [00:07:43][2.2]

Jameela: [00:07:44] But I but I have been I have been lucky enough to have met you in the flesh before we met backstage at a U.N. event. Look at us. [00:07:54][9.8]

Diane: [00:07:55] I know. [00:07:56][1.4]

Jameela: [00:07:56] Flicks hair. We were both speaking on panels at I think like Concordia or something. That was it. And and I just found you so, so open, so vulnerable in such an empowering and strong way, because I find vulnerability to be the epitome of strength. And there was such a warmth and resilience to you. I was just immediately drawn to you and I was like, right, OK, I’m obsessed, instantly obsessed with her. And I’m good to find out everything about her and everything she does. And and I could not have anticipated how extraordinary your life story was just because you are so young and you’ve been through so much. Do you ever just feel like you’re 80? [00:08:42][45.6]

Diane: [00:08:43] Yes. Yes. Every day I feel like I’m 80 and counting 80 and counting. Thank you Jameela for that warm introduction. I, I feel the same way about you. I admire you so much. I know that you’ve also been through your share of adversity and I just fucking admire how outspoken you are and how vulnerable you’re able to be with us and just how you just you just kick ass. [00:09:10][26.2]

Jameela: [00:09:10] Oh, thank you. [00:09:11][0.8]

Diane: [00:09:11] I love that. [00:09:12][0.7]

Jameela: [00:09:13] You exploded onto our screens in 2012 when you were cast in Orange is the New Black, I feel like that was a really standout moment in your career. And so how early on did you decide to start using your voice? [00:09:24][10.9]

Diane: [00:09:27] Yeah, it was pretty early on, you know, I wasn’t I remember when I I didn’t even know what that show was going to be. I didn’t know what it meant for my career. I just knew that I had that I had landed something. For me, anything at that point would have been special because I had no work, and so it was just a validation for me that I that I could keep going, that perhaps I I did have some talent in this, that I could at least experiment a couple more years in this field to see if I really had what it what it takes. Um, and during that time, social media was really, really exploding. And I also saw a lot of women on my show that were very outspoken, like Laverne Cox was, uh, was a member of of Orange is the New Black. And she’s a trans activist. And she was very outspoken about what her experience was like. And I really admire that. And I admired all the women on the show that were very open about their sexuality, about how they wanted to live in the world and how they wanted the respect and love that they deserved and and to be fucking left alone. [00:10:36][69.1]

Jameela: [00:10:38] Yeah, also the show in itself was such a feminist statement. I mean, such huge cast of such strong female lead, such complexity in their characters. It’s an unglamorous show. It is a show about the women we least talk about women who are stuck in the carceral system and and women from trans backgrounds and from, you know, within the LGBTQ community at whole. So many different skin colors all on the same TV show, not utilized in any way that felt tokenized or or for show. It felt like it felt like a representative explosion when it arrived on our screens and it was all anyone was talking about. And so even though you had no idea quite what it was going to do for your career or what it was going to mean to people, it’s so it’s so fitting that your first massive project would end up being this kind of beacon of representation and empowerment. So for those who aren’t aware, would you talk us through your story and your experience with the immigration system? [00:11:41][63.3]

Diane: [00:11:42] Oh, yeah. Yeah, my parents were deported when I was 14 and my entire life we had issues with the immigration system, my family trying to become documented and failing every single year of my life, you know, faulty lawyers, also terrible decisions on my family’s end. I mean, but but really, if you think about it, the immigration system is bullshit. It’s racist. It’s meant to keep people of color out. It’s it’s criminalizing in every way. I mean, think about it. You’re already criminalized for entering, so. Right right there. You already you are already a criminal. So, you know, you start with that. And it’s really hard to to really get on a path because there is no path for citizenship. So my entire life I struggled with that and my family and then finally the inevitable happened, which was that they were detained and taken. And I had to stay behind. I chose to stay behind with with family friends and finish out high school. And then, you know, I had I had a very clear vision of what I wanted. I wanted to go to college. I wanted to help my family out as much as I could. And I knew that I was an Amer- sorry I was an American citizen. And so I had the opportunity to do that. [00:13:03][80.9]

Jameela: [00:13:03] And you you know, you’d or you’d always known that it was a possibility it could happen. You’d heard about it happening to people within your community. And so what’s that like growing up with that knowledge that any day you can come home and potentially your family isn’t there anymore? What does that feel like? Does it does it kind of breed an anxiety and you just kind of low level, constant anxiety? [00:13:23][20.2]

Diane: [00:13:24] It’s constant anxiety. It’s actually like damaging your brain as a child. You know, your child, your your brain is still forming and your brain is like severely being damaged by that kind of anxiety, that kind of worry, that fear, that loneliness. [00:13:41][17.1]

Jameela: [00:13:43] And you also had to lie for your family at a young age. [00:13:45][2.7]

Diane: [00:13:46] I had to lie constantly. [00:13:46][0.5]

Jameela: [00:13:47] Yeah, talk about that. [00:13:48][0.8]

Diane: [00:13:49] I had to lie every single day. I had to tap dance. I had to, you know, distract people. I had to act like some weird little, you know, pod child from, like some movie I had seen. You know, I’d watch Disney movies like crazy and I’d like imitate these little girls. And I’d be like, Hello, how are you today? This is my mother. I’m an American here’s my mother. She’s not going to steal. So it was it was a constant that which which I mean, I guess in retrospect, I’m thinking, like, certainly allowed me to develop certain skills that I have now as an actor and as an entertainer. But there’s a very fine line and it hurt me. It ultimately hurt me because I really didn’t know what was real and what was fake. And so that’s very traumatizing for a child so that when it actually happens, you just become numb. And that’s what happened to me. I like I literally just became such an introverted person and I didn’t want to share my feelings and I didn’t want to let anyone know that I was hurting. I mean, it was like my parents had failed and I couldn’t fail them by then being like a crybaby about it. I had to sort of figure out a way that I could redeem them and myself. And so, like that became my mission. But. [00:15:03][74.6]

Jameela: [00:15:04] Where did the, sorry. I just want to ask you. Because you have alluded a few times like a feeling of shame around the whole subject. And I wonder where did that come from in someone so young. Where were you getting that from were your parents carrying their own shame. Was it the way that you would see people from your community represented on camera or spoken about by politicians or represented in media or not represented in media? Like where where did this inherent sense of shame or I must cover obviously you had to cover this up in order to protect your family. But also there was a desire in you to cover it up so that it wasn’t real. Do you know where that shame came from? [00:15:44][40.1]

Diane: [00:15:45] Oh, it was everywhere. It was everywhere. It was in the images that I saw. It was in the kind of the typical family that you saw that was successful or or loved or appreciated in this country. It was the policemen who would stop my mom and make fun of her accent when they would harass her. It was in the way that my parents had to dim their own light and made me dim because I didn’t want to call it cause attention or like bring attention to my family. And also because we couldn’t like we didn’t have like conventional like jobs or like jobs that like, I guess at the time you know, that would people would make fun of like they would make fun of my mom for cleaning houses and they’d make fun of my dad for like working at like a factory like kids would and stuff. [00:16:34][49.6]

Jameela: [00:16:35] Will you talk about why your parents came to America in the first place anyway. [00:16:38][3.3]

Diane: [00:16:41] Yeah, they came for better opportunities. You know, they came because there was a lot of violence at home. And they my parents are Columbian. And at the time in the eighties, there was just a lot of violence with, uh, with the drug cartels and all of that. And I think I had an aunt that had been a part of that. And my mom was just very scared. And my I had an aunt that died where her husband was making her, uh, traffic drugs and and wanted to get my family involved. And so my mom just left with my little brother, with my older brother, my little brother. My mom left Columbia with my with my older brother, along with my dad. She had just met met my dad and they were dating my dad’s not my brother’s father. And [00:17:32][51.3]

Jameela: [00:17:33] They fled. [00:17:34][1.3]

Diane: [00:17:35] They fled. Yeah. [00:17:36][0.5]

Jameela: [00:17:36] Yeah. And that’s normally why people leave the country that they’re in. And I feel like we just politicians so deliberately keep that story out because God forbid, we should develop any empathy for those who who need to leave where they’re from. You know, I come from a country that, you know, originally part of my family is from Pakistan. And Pakistan was incredibly scary place to live for a very long time. And, you know, especially post 9/11, you still have bombs going off. People think that Osama bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan. It was a fucking terrifying place to be. And I could not have imagined thinking that I can’t get out of that. I was so lucky to be a British citizen where I could I could leave again and go where I felt safer. People just want to be safe. They want to be OK. They want to be able to raise their children and not be terrified that their child won’t come home that night. Or they won’t come home that night. [00:18:28][51.2]

Diane: [00:18:29] And migration is such a natural part of humanity. [00:18:33][4.5]

Jameela: [00:18:34] Yes. And we spread all over the fucking planet in the first place. And then also the irony of, you know, during the crisis in Texas recently regarding the sub zero temperatures and the ongoing catastrophe over there, Ted Cruz just fucked off to get his children somewhere warmer with wifi. What a prick. What a prick. And someone who is so pro the wall, so pro building that wall, he scrambled right over it. [00:19:05][31.8]

Diane: [00:19:06] And it’s a perfect it’s a perfect example of what a lie this whole thing is, right. The wall, the bands, it’s just it’s basically America wants to keep black and brown people out. That is basically it. That’s it. [00:19:24][18.2]

Jameela: [00:19:24] But they would like to go and hang out with the brown people when they lose their wi fi and heating and hot water and then fucking pipes are bursting. [00:19:31][6.3]

Diane: [00:19:32] They want to go to fucking Cabo and live it up. Sure, sure. [00:19:35][3.4]

Jameela: [00:19:36] I can’t imagine how frustrating that Ted Cruz moment was for everyone, especially those fighting within the world of immigration. So do you mind us talking a little bit about the day that you came home and realized that your parents weren’t home when you were 14? [00:19:54][17.4]

Diane: [00:19:56] Yeah, I yeah, I was I was in school as my freshman year, I was attending a performance arts high school, which I had I had worked really hard to get in and it just seemed like my family and I were just settling in. My dad had recently found a lawyer supposedly that was going to really help us. And that that turned out that didn’t turn out well. The guy, like, basically picked up his office and has like fake diplomas and just bounced like we never heard from him again. So we already knew things were a little wonky, but we were all living in this house and in Boston. And I just I came home one day and and they were gone and they were just gone. And like the neighbors came in and told me that the that immigration had come in and picked up my parents. And then I just, like, went under the bed, grabbed the phone, waited for my parents to call. They did. I called a family friend and she came and she picked me up and I just kind of like picked up by my school bag, a couple items and I just bounced. [00:21:02][66.4]

Jameela: [00:21:04] Did you have an emotional reaction that day or did you just sort of freeze as a coping mechanism? [00:21:08][4.2]

Diane: [00:21:12] I I just went under the bed, because I was afraid that somebody was going to come for me. And I was just really afraid what would happen to me if if somebody came for me, like who would be that somebody who is like trying to like I just thought they were like, put me in a home or like somebody like I had heard some weird shit in the neighborhood that, like, some lady wanted to adopt me or something like that. I was like, oh, my God. I’m about to be fucking sex trafficked, You know what I mean, like, I don’t know, I thought awful things. So I just hid under the bed and I just clung to that phone and, like, squeezed my eyes really tight because sometimes if you do that, you wake up. But like but yeah, I cried, I cried, I think I cried immediately, and then when my friends came, I couldn’t cry anymore because I just had to my dad told me I had to be strong. And like he he told me where some money was stashed and like, I went in and got the money and then, yeah, I was just kind of like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I got to go to school tomorrow. And I went to school. [00:22:16][64.6]

Jameela: [00:22:18] That’s a huge decision to have to make at that age. Huge decision. Did any of you think it was going to be temporary? Did you think that maybe this isn’t going to last for a very long time? How did how long was it before you were reunited with your parents? [00:22:30][12.3]

Diane: [00:22:32] I mean, I went to visit them that same summer. I went I went to Columbia. I went to Columbia. And I was like the first time I went to Columbia. And that was a fucking experience unto itself. I was just like, oh, my God, where am I? And it was like it was so it was so it was tough to see, like little children on the street juggling lines for money and seeing so much poverty and so many motorcycles. And it was definitely different. And then, of course, my parents were separated because this kind of ended their relationship. And then I had to go to like my mom’s place where she was with her family. And then my dad was with his family. Like that whole situation was even more intense than like I mean, the deportation, obviously. But going to Colombia and seeing that my parents hated each other was the most difficult for me because then I had to really be an adult. And so when I was like, OK, you guys are not trying to be my parents. And like, nobody gives a fuck about me. I’m going to go wile out. That’s what I did. I was just like I just went I was like, I’m an adult now. I take care of myself. I remember I getting back to the states I like, got a job. I was, um, I mean, I was very careful with not upsetting the people that I was living with because I knew I had to act like a proper child and a good kid for them to, like, not be. [00:23:52][79.9]

Jameela: [00:23:52] Keep you. [00:23:52][0.1]

Diane: [00:23:52] Keep me, you know, until I was ready to to move on. But I was a I was a little grown up and I wasn’t even getting in trouble in high school. But like, I knew that as soon as I got to college, like I was going to rage and I did. [00:24:02][9.8]

Jameela: [00:24:10] So so you’re dealing with the fact that your parents been taken away. I also think it’s really important to point out that even though I knew that they had effectively orphaned you in the fact that, like, you don’t have a single parent left over, they may still be alive, but you can’t access them. You won’t wake up to them in the morning again in the United States for an unforeseeable amount of time. They never checked in on you? [00:24:33][23.9]

Diane: [00:24:34] No, no, no, no. That was that was. Yeah, no. And and I waited. [00:24:38][4.3]

Jameela: [00:24:39] And I can I just can’t I can’t imagine in the America that people speak of that you would leave a 14 year old American citizen completely on her own and never check to find out what happened to her, where she went, if she’s OK, if she’s alive. [00:24:56][17.6]

Diane: [00:24:58] No, they don’t give a shit. No, they don’t care. They don’t care. In their eyes my parents were criminals and they had no empathy and like, no regard for any children that that were left behind. If they weren’t there, they weren’t there when when the arrest happened, they you know, they didn’t care. [00:25:17][19.2]

Jameela: [00:25:17] Did you ever find out how that arrest even was instigated? [00:25:21][3.8]

Diane: [00:25:23] No. There’s like a there’s like to this day, we don’t know. It’s been 20 years for gosh, it’s been 20 years. And we don’t know. I mean, we think it was like there’s like rumors. It was like obviously like my dad’s you know, my dad’s paperwork, um, didn’t go through or like whatever did go through, like alerted immigration services. There was a rumor that, you know, that a certain family member didn’t like my parents and wanted them gone and so called immigration services. There was maybe some deportation letters from my mother that came and we had moved from the place that she received it at, like it really could be can be as simple as that. It could be as like you were sent a letter of deportation and you didn’t read it. You didn’t show up for court. And so we had you in our radar and we went to go find you or as simple as somebody made a call and they just, you know. [00:26:17][54.3]

Jameela: [00:26:18] And so few of the people and so few of the people in this situation even have the the education around the system, around the deportation system to advocate for themselves or to know to even look out for a lot of these things. Like there isn’t a guidebook that you’re kind of handed once you cross the border. Obviously, you’re not supposed to be there. And so, so many of these people aren’t given the the right information as to how to do this, the legal and best and safest way. [00:26:43][25.9]

Diane: [00:26:44] No, there wasn’t. I mean, my parents certainly didn’t have the knowledge and they would just be really scared to even seek out help from different organizations that were either. I mean, now, obviously, as a as a grown woman and because of all the work and and the advocacy work that I’ve done, you know, I really wish that I was I really wish that I was knowledgeable about some stuff so that I could have helped direct my family to the right people, because there are so many people out there doing the work on the ground who are really helping out folks who don’t have that kind of information that really like a simple letter or a simple guidance could can help you avoid a lot of these things. But the truth of it is that the system is shit and needs to be completely abolished. And and just it needs a new vision because as as is it’s not working for anybody. [00:27:31][47.3]

Jameela: [00:27:33] No it’s just deeply traumatic. And the things that we keep hearing over the border are just just extraordinary, extraordinary to read about and see images of. And I really appreciate the work you’ve done to raise awareness for so many people out there, both those who will never maybe be impacted by deportation. And for all those kids who are growing up who look like you, who can listen to your words and maybe help protect their families because of all the information that you are spreading awareness around. So how is that impacted your feeling of just generally feeling safe in this world, all of this that’s gone through, like, let’s. Moving past that and how that may have impacted you, did it make you feel kind of tougher or, you know, quote unquote braver and kind of like, I’ve got this, I can look after myself? Or did it give you this this feeling of like a lack of safety? [00:28:22][49.5]

Diane: [00:28:23] I think it was a little bit of both, because I knew that I feel like I just gave no shits, I think that, like when you lose your family like that, when your family unit dies and your family is suffering so much and you’re kind of just out there on your own, I mean, that weighs on you a lot. And so, you know that you have to tread lightly. So but I did I did have this fire in me that that I was going to that I was going to survive and that I was going to do something special. [00:28:57][33.7]

Jameela: [00:29:00] That’s amazing that you were able to hold onto that through so much pain and trauma. That’s amazing. [00:29:05][4.6]

Diane: [00:29:06] Yeah, but that but that was like that was a way to sort of protect myself. But inside, I was terrified. I was terrified. Everyone scared me. I didn’t trust anybody. I didn’t have great relationships. I was very traumatized. And I was in a lot of pain. But I would mask it with this, like, self determination and I’m going to make it. And I really bought into that fucking American story. You know, I can bootstrap. I’m going to fucking bootstrap. I’m going to I’m going to make it and I’ll show all of them. And I’m make everyone very sorry that they took my family away because they took the wrong person’s family away. [00:29:41][35.7]

Jameela: [00:29:43] And they fucking did. [00:29:43][0.8]

Diane: [00:29:44] And it sure did. [00:29:45][1.2]

Jameela: [00:29:46] Look at what you’re going on to do. [00:29:47][0.6]

Diane: [00:29:48] Yeah, because I did I did fucking speak out about it and I didn’t even know that that was just your first step to to alleviating a lot of that pain within yourself and in your community, because it has been a very, very special story that I have shared with folks. And at first it was really hard. And it’s not it’s not great for a lot of people to judge, you know, and judge your parents and constantly call them criminals and like, well, if you didn’t like it, you should have gone back with them. And that used to hurt me a lot. But but it kind of what counteracted that was all the love that I was getting from other immigrant folks and families and kids who were like writing me and being like, I’m also going through this, or like my dad was deported and that was really hard. I’m so glad you’re speaking about it. And now I’m going to I’m becoming a fucking immigration lawyer. Like so many kids have written me like, I’m going to be an immigration lawyer. [00:30:44][56.5]

Jameela: [00:30:45] So great. [00:30:46][0.3]

Diane: [00:30:45] What that’s amazing. [00:30:46][1.0]

Jameela: [00:30:47] I found it amazing to read about you that you actually voted most happy go lucky in high school. So I mean, talk about finding a self defense mechanism or facade. You’re going through all of that and people think you’re the happiest in the school. So you’ve been acting from day dot. [00:31:07][19.6]

Diane: [00:31:08] Oh, yeah. And I was kind of mad about that. I was like, no one sees me, you know, but it’s like, how how could they have seen me if I was just completely like, I’m good, I’m OK, I’m OK. You know, the whole time [00:31:19][11.2]

Jameela: [00:31:19] It’s so funny, isn’t it? Like, I was so I was so proud of going through all of my childhood trauma and looking after so many deeply mentally ill people and never considering myself to have any mental illness issues. Even though I had suicidal ideation, I had all these different things. I clearly had depression, anxiety, but I didn’t see it as that because I was still technically functional and I wasn’t I was if I’m honest, I was a little bit smug for I was a little bit smug secretly about the fact that I’m fine, I’m the strong one. And I really held on to this like, preconceived notion of what I think strength is. You know, at the beginning of this, I talked about your your vulnerability being what I found so almost overpowering about you, where I was just totally lost I was lost in your eyes. Diane,. [00:32:06][46.4]

Diane: [00:32:06] Are you sure it wasn’t just me about to cry and being like I can’t take it anymore. [00:32:10][4.2]

Jameela: [00:32:11] No it wasn’t it wasn’t. But I thought that, you know, stoicism and coldness and, you know, am I proud of this? No, but I used to I used to take a lot of comfort from listening to Eminem’s Lose Yourself in the music. I don’t know how I felt like I could relate to that. Really relate to that song. [00:32:25][14.3]

Diane: [00:32:28] Oh, my God. Yeah. [00:32:29][0.7]

Jameela: [00:32:29] That was like grade A Pakistani student. Just with my little nerdy school uniform on. Got my hoodie up and listen to it, and I’d be like, yeah, Eminem gets me. [00:32:42][12.4]

Diane: [00:32:42] Yeah, I just eat a ton of spaghetti and throw it up. [00:32:45][3.0]

Jameela: [00:32:46] Yeah on myself. Yeah. So I really it. It was this odd combination. I was this odd combination of kind of being this little old lady who’d seen way too much, too much almost to kind of really be able to relate to people my own age. I kind of wanted to hang out with people eight or 10 or 20 years older than me because I felt like I could converse with them in a way that was more relatable. But at the same time, my development was kind of arrested because I had frozen for such a long time and decided to play this part of famous rapper Eminem. No of this like, you know, sturdy backbone of my family. Just I would be the legacy. [00:33:27][40.7]

Diane: [00:33:28] Like, Laura, you’re you’re you’re the you were the Lara Croft, right? You were just like, ready to, like. [00:33:33][4.7]

Jameela: [00:33:33] Maybe you were with the Lara Croft. I was definitely not I might have been the tree. [00:33:37][3.8]

Diane: [00:33:38] You were Eminem. [00:33:38][0.2]

Jameela: [00:33:40] Yeah I’ll take Eminem. At the very least I’m Mekhi Phifer. But yeah, I want to know about how, uh, how and why the raging happened once you got to college. [00:33:52][12.5]

Diane: [00:33:55] I think it was a release,. [00:33:56][1.6]

[00:33:57] Was it that that drive of like, no one sees my pain, I’m going to fuckin rebel? [00:34:01][3.6]

Diane: [00:34:02] I think it was. Yeah. [00:34:03][0.8]

Jameela: [00:34:03] Right. And what did that look like? [00:34:05][1.3]

Diane: [00:34:05] I wanted I had been so stoic and like so I got this and literally I was walking around so hot, you know, I was walking around, like burning up like anything would hurt my feelings. But I was like, bottling it up, bottling it up. And and at this point, I developed such a huge chip on my shoulder, my like my shoulder was literally falling off because that that’s how huge the chip was. I was fucking angry. I was angry and like, no one got me. And I think I just wanted I wanted to feel what I was supposed to feel because I wasn’t sure anymore what I was supposed to feel. [00:34:40][35.3]

Jameela: [00:34:41] Mm hmm. That’s a huge identity crisis to split yourself in in half like that from such a young age, you have to kind of sit in your own shit for a while just to find out exactly who you really are. [00:34:53][12.2]

Diane: [00:34:54] I think that’s what it was. I needed to sit in some of my own shit because so far it was so it was everybody else’s shit. It was my mom, my dad and my brother. And all of them actually were really suffering and would let me know about it on a daily basis, would let me know how hard they were experiencing life. And I was sort of just living this lie. And I wanted to I don’t know, I wanted somebody to see me. And so I started just experimenting with drugs and and alcohol and sex. And I wanted I was like cutting myself. I was like, you know, I had I had, you know, suicidal ideation totally like. It was huge for me, I was like thinking about it constantly and and. Ready to go. I was just like ready to like if something pissed me off enough, if something just seemed too bleak or. [00:35:54][60.1]

Jameela: [00:35:56] Overwhelming. [00:35:56][0.0]

Diane: [00:35:57] Overwhelming. I was just like waiting for my moment to be very, very hurt, so I was putting in my I was putting myself in situations where I would be hurt. And I was just challenging myself all the time how much I could take it. [00:36:09][12.1]

Jameela: [00:36:10] Just kind of hovering your finger over the button all the time. That’s what I did. I think from 15 onwards, I was in that mindstate probably until like God just a couple of years ago. And I still stumble and fall sometimes and trip back into old habit, even like maybe a year ago. I think it was that I, I stumbled back into those old patterns of like that easy doorway out. I’m so glad that I’ve I’ve not successfully managed to walk through the door fully. But it is it is something that you have to constantly work your way away from and never feel shame that you considered it. I think it’s a lot of shaming around those thoughts. But they’re not they’re not selfish thoughts or not selfish in the in a way that should be stigmatized. They’re just their thoughts. Because you don’t think you can survive. [00:36:54][44.3]

Diane: [00:36:55] Yeah. You feel hopeless. And if you’re feeling like no one really cares about you and no one really sees who you are and you have already forgotten who you are, and there’s no way for you to get that back, you’re feeling really lost. You can’t identify with anything. You’re not identifying. [00:37:07][11.9]

Jameela: [00:37:08] With the people. [00:37:09][0.8]

Diane: [00:37:09] Yeah nothing. Yeah. What what what is it that makes you you. Well, I don’t know. I don’t even know my parents anymore. I don’t know who the fuck they are. Who am I. Um. And so yeah. So I started hurting myself. [00:37:20][11.1]

Jameela: [00:37:21] What were the romantic relationships like that you had. Did you have romantic relationships or would it just be about sex. Like what was it, was it easy to get was it difficult to get close to people considering the last time you’d gotten really close to people, they’d been taken away from you? [00:37:34][12.7]

Diane: [00:37:34] Yeah, I had I had romantic relationships, but they wouldn’t really go anywhere. Like, I don’t think I think as soon as anyone really saw how much in pain I was, like, they were afraid of that, and so I began not to trust anybody, to hold my feelings or hold space for my for my pain. So every relationship that I had, I was I mean, I was very vulnerable to being lied to. I entered, like, just believing I believed people at first. And then as soon as they showed me that they were just human and like lying. And then I like blame myself for, like, letting those people lie to me. And then after that I was like, I’m not going to be faithful in any any relationship that I get into right now. I’m not going to believe in any relationship right now. And I don’t believe in anybody. And so I would just do things to like ruin friendships and ruin relationships like get hammered and like mess up and embarrass the person and like wanna get violent. And I I’d hurt myself in front of them. And then I’d, you know, I, I put my shit in a trash bag and I’d leave me. So that was basically every relationship that I had before, like four years ago. [00:38:47][72.2]

Jameela: [00:38:48] Man, that is that’s a really long time to to feel that way. And I also really appreciate you being willing to talk about it. I my my response was to do the exact opposite and just run away from all relationships and run away from kissing anyone till I was 21 and not sleeping with anyone until like years after that and just being petrified of getting close to anyone at all in any way, almost especially physically. I just didn’t I just wanted to shut myself away in my bedroom and and hide. And whichever way your trauma manifests, if you’re listening to this and you identify with either one of our paths, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s all survival. And if we’ve learned anything in the last year, survival is the greatest possible end goal for any of us. And and we shouldn’t consider that a low bar. So what has your journey of recovery been like through addiction or would you call it addiction? Was it just sort of self harming behaviors? [00:39:46][58.2]

Diane: [00:39:49] It was self harming behaviors, but it became addictive. [00:39:51][2.1]

Jameela: [00:39:52] OK,. [00:39:52][0.0]

Diane: [00:39:53] All of it, the that kind of life, you know, that survival life like you want to be in survival mode because that’s what feels comfortable. That’s what feels safe. [00:40:01][8.5]

Jameela: [00:40:02] Yeah discomfort is your comfort zone. [00:40:03][1.3]

Diane: [00:40:04] Exactly. [00:40:04][0.0]

Jameela: [00:40:04] So this means that during your time, even on Orange is the New Black or on Jane the Virgin and becoming this rising star, you were still going through these patterns? [00:40:13][8.6]

Diane: [00:40:14] Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I was like I was sabotaging literally everything everything I’m so surprised that I got where I got to because I was I was getting in my way, like every single time I had an opportunity, I would just get in my way. And. [00:40:32][18.0]

Jameela: [00:40:32] What does that mean? Like going out and getting trashed before an audition or. [00:40:34][2.3]

Diane: [00:40:36] Sure sure. Getting trash, not showing up, mixing up the dates, like not being organized or, but mostly mostly getting trashed and and challenging myself in those ways. Like I knew I had to go home. If I if I’d got a callback or something like that, I’d be so excited. I’d be like, oh my God, I’m so excited. I can’t believe I got this call back. And then my friend would call me and be like, yo, you want to hit up this place? And I’d be like, No, man, you know, I really got to go home and come on just like whatever. Just like come and meet me for a couple of drinks and then then I’d wake up in some random person’s house and I’d be fucked up and it’d be like, you know, 8:00 in the morning and the callback was at 10:00 a.m. and then I’d walk in there like all fucked up. [00:41:16][40.1]

Jameela: [00:41:16] It’s just more and more of these kind of little drips of shame coming throughout your life. [00:41:19][3.2]

Diane: [00:41:20] It was shameful. It was so shameful. And. [00:41:20][0.1]

Jameela: [00:41:20] It was like, yeah, you don’t have to you don’t have the immigration the immigration shame is not like at the forefront of your brain now that you’re becoming a young woman. So you have to keep finding new things to create that familiar feeling of shame from your childhood. [00:41:33][13.2]

Diane: [00:41:33] Exactly. Yeah. [00:41:34][0.7]

Jameela: [00:41:35] Like what can I do that can make me feel ashamed of myself because then I feel like me because that’s who my identity is. [00:41:38][3.2]

Diane: [00:41:38] And that was it. That was like I was like, oh, great. That it’s another example of how you know, how I’m a piece of shit, you know. I mean so I’m like, that’s great. I don’t deserve it. So I don’t have to work this hard. You know what? Fuck it. I’m just gonna let it go. Maybe I’ll try to go get my, uh, my master’s in something else. [00:41:53][15.0]

Jameela: [00:41:54] I’m so glad that you stuck around and you kept going. So even though you’d have those thoughts of kind of. Right, I’m quitting. I’m giving up on myself. I’m not going to back myself anymore. Where would the drive come back to just be like, oh, fuck it. I’ll just give it one more try. Curiosity. [00:42:09][15.7]

Diane: [00:42:11] Yeah, it would just be like or it would just be like how I was feeling, you know, I would I would hurt myself to the point where I felt really debilitated. And then as soon as I would gain my strength back, like just my physical strength. And you you like forget about that, like how much your body has so much to do with your, like with your ability to to feel OK in your mind. I mean, obviously they both go hand in hand. But as soon as I started feeling better and and I would you know, I don’t know, somebody would call me and and show me love. And that’s all I really wanted. You know, I just wanted I wanted to feel love from people. I wanted to feel that they cared and that they believed in me because I didn’t. I feel like it was like myself always championing myself, like I would always bring and my parents were love, our lovely people, and they always rooted for me. But it was always me being like, I found this thing, you know, can I go? Can I present myself? They’re like, Oh, sure, go ahead, go ahead, try out. And then after that, it was always me finding my own opportunities. And so what I really wanted was someone to say, I really believe in you. [00:43:22][71.0]

Jameela: [00:43:23] So how did you find stability after all of this? Like how did you manage to stop self harming, stop with the suicidal ideation, stop with the use of alcohol or drugs to kind of get in your own way? Was there a breakthrough moment? Did you fuck anything up really badly or did something just go really well? And you were like, I don’t want this to ever go wrong. [00:43:45][22.5]

Diane: [00:43:46] I think I just learned how to manage it more. How to mask it more. I think there were like a lot of moments where I was still doing the same stuff. But I like I had started therapy. That was that was one thing that that I think helped. But what helped was mostly like comfort shit. Like I had somewhere to live, like I had food. I had a job, like all of those little things really helped me. [00:44:10][23.8]

Jameela: [00:44:10] You felt safe? [00:44:12][1.8]

Diane: [00:44:12] I felt safe. Like what my what I didn’t have I didn’t have a home. I didn’t have money. I didn’t have any sort of stability. So all I wanted was stability. So when people in my life help me out with that, then I could really thrive. I could really shine. And I and I feel like, you know, and that’s why I’m so I’m so passionate about helping my community out and why the the sense of community is so important. Because I’m here because of my community, the people who helped me get here, because they gave me a warm place to stay, because they helped me out with food when I didn’t have it, when they when my mom was really suffering and she needed money, my friends would, like, lend me money to send her like or somebody gave me a job or like my friend, I remember, like, lying, you know, giving me a number to to give these restaurants to call and let them know that I had worked at a this is when my friend Kelly like basically picking up the phone and being like, oh yeah, Diane’s worked for me for years. Meanwhile, she’s like in college, like, you know, it’s all these people who who really helped me out along the way. [00:45:16][63.5]

Jameela: [00:45:17] Now you want to pay it forward. [00:45:18][0.7]

Diane: [00:45:18] And I want to pay it forward by by by being honest about who I am. [00:45:22][3.7]

Jameela: [00:45:23] Yeah. I think this is such an important story to tell. And and I think it’s a story that that a lot of different people can relate to, whether or not they’ve been through the trauma that is the immigration system in the United States or anywhere in the world. I really don’t I really don’t understand the need for them. But anyone who’s gone through extreme trauma when they’re younger to be able to hear your story of just so openly telling me how that played out and how that manifested in you, but also for you to be here now, someone who’s had therapy, one of the first conversations you and I had all those years ago was about EMDR therapy, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy. If you listen to this podcast over the last year, you’ve heard me say only about eighty nine thousand times. But that’s been something that you have tried. It’s definitely something that I have heard. [00:46:12][49.5]

Diane: [00:46:13] So that’s been that’s been the only thing. That and Jameela, why why I’m on here with you and why I admire you so much. [00:46:25][11.7]

Jameela: [00:46:25] Is because you’re in love with me. [00:46:25][0.0]

Diane: [00:46:26] Is because I’m in love with you and I value I value our friendship and what this really can become really. No but like that day in in at the UN convention, the Concordia convention what that fuck that was. But I was there like speaking on behalf of my community once again while I was really hurting. I had recently experienced some abuse. So like, you know, even so, you know, when I told you that, like, well, I experienced more comfort, right. I felt more safe, but that didn’t matter. Like, ultimately, you know,. [00:46:57][31.1]

Jameela: [00:46:57] Feeling mor safe doesn’t make you safe. [00:46:58][0.2]

Diane: [00:46:58] It doesn’t make you safe. Exactly. [00:47:01][3.1]

Jameela: [00:47:02] So I’m not trying to body shame you, but you’re a tiny, tiny person compared to me. I’m a five foot 11 tree. And you’re a you’re of smaller stature to me. And you are alarmingly beautiful and very, very striking. And you dress very nicely. Maybe I’m in love with you. [00:47:21][19.3]

Diane: [00:47:26] It sounds like you’re in love with me. [00:47:26][0.1]

Jameela: [00:47:26] Yeah. I mean, I can I can hear the violins playing I’m like can you hear that? No, so, so as a woman not to say that you didn’t experience safety in that way, but like, this is a challenging industry. This is a challenging world to be a young, beautiful, small ish woman. [00:47:45][18.7]

Diane: [00:47:45] So even when I felt safe, like, OK, I had a home, I, I had established this community that really supported me. And, you know, I’m I’m in like my second season of of my show Doom Patrol. Like, I, I’m feeling like, OK, I got shit together, but I wasn’t I wasn’t committed to therapy at the time. Like I was I was doing this thing called art therapy, which I don’t discredit at all. But it wasn’t I wasn’t doing the work. And I was also still lying to my therapist about using drugs and, um, mainly that. Using drugs to hurt myself. And like, when when my my main goal from the time. [00:48:25][39.6]

Jameela: [00:48:26] So this is up until when we met in like 2019. [00:48:29][2.9]

Diane: [00:48:30] Yeah. I was still struggling with drugs and at this point like I didn’t consider myself an addict but I did consider myself a user. And then there were a different points, like different years that I was using more than others. And at this point I was heavily using and I had been I went to New York to do an appearance at this or that. And I was I was doing some projects. And then I met up with an old friend and like I went. Yeah, I was I was sexually abused, I like I did a lot of drugs and like maybe somebody I don’t know, I was maybe slipped something. I don’t know, there was some random people and anyway. I was I was abused. [00:49:13][42.9]

Jameela: [00:49:14] And I this is shortly before we met. [00:49:16][2.8]

Diane: [00:49:17] This is shortly before we met. I was fucking devastated. Talk about shame. I mean, I looked at my fucking self in the mirror and I was just like, you’re a fucking loser, because how is it possible that you already you got the house, you got the job, you have this amazing relationship. And now you were and and you’re outspoken and like now you’re like speaking you know,. [00:49:38][20.3]

Jameela: [00:49:39] You’re wearing power suits at the U.N. [00:49:40][1.7]

Diane: [00:49:42] Yeah wearing power suits at the U.N. I’m like over here speaking at women’s conferences about being strong and all this shit. And then I felt like a complete failure and like a liar. I felt like a liar because I was I allowed this to happen to myself. And even though, like, you know, the Metoo movement had happened all that, I still. I still blame myself. [00:49:59][16.8]

Jameela: [00:49:59] But, you know, you don’t still blame yourself now. [00:50:02][2.9]

Diane: [00:50:02] No, of course not. No, I saw you when you saw my like, little doughy eyes. And I was like, I’m fucking hurting. And you were like you. You were like God, almost. You, like, touched me on the shoulder and you were like, do MDR, do EMDR. Do you know what that is? And I was like, uh ah. And you were like Cicero. No I’m just kidding. [00:50:20][17.9]

Jameela: [00:50:20] Lipshitz. [00:50:20][0.0]

Diane: [00:50:23] Exactly like and I was like the spread eagle. No you looked at me and you were like, do that because I’m. And you know what? When we did the pre-call. [00:50:35][11.2]

Jameela: [00:50:35] We spoke for five minutes, by the way, this would just give you a strong idea of like if you think I’m just bold from the safety of my little pod booth. No, I’m out there in the streets. I’m out there in these streets giving therapy giving like mental health effects to fucking strangers who talk to me for three minutes. I put my hand on their shoulder. I look deep into their eyes and I tell them how to live their lives. As if that is fucking any of my business, I’m passing out solicited advice like it’s going out of fashion. I’m a nightmare. I am a nightmare. [00:51:05][29.9]

Diane: [00:51:06] That that meant that fucking saved my life. Let me tell you why. Because it meant a lot to me that I had just hurt myself in this way. And even though I was in this place where I was doing good. Right, we were talking about very sensitive issues that. [00:51:19][13.1]

Jameela: [00:51:19] Yeah, just a carefully phrase that you felt like you had hurt yourself in this way, actually we’re blaming this person. [00:51:24][5.1]

Diane: [00:51:25] Yes, I felt like I had hurt myself in this way. And you were able to see that. Or maybe you were just feeling I don’t know what what happened, but I feel like you felt that I was in pain. And I don’t think I had ever admitted that I had ever been sexually abused or anything like that. But at that moment, that that had happened in New York and all of a sudden I had to be in this conference like. I started remembering all the times that it had been abused and like I had, that I had never allowed myself to say that I was abused sexually in that way. [00:51:59][34.3]

Jameela: [00:52:00] So it had happened before. [00:52:01][0.7]

Diane: [00:52:01] It had happened before. But I had never allowed it because I’m like, I cannot be. [00:52:06][4.3]

Jameela: [00:52:06] A victim. [00:52:06][0.1]

Diane: [00:52:07] A victim again of this shit. Like I’m already like my parents already separated from me. Like, my parents are deported, we’re already criminalized. I’m already have mental health issues. I can’t also have this one more thing and I can’t begin to speak about this. And so when you told me about that. [00:52:25][17.5]

Jameela: [00:52:25] I could sense your I could I could sense like a yearning in you. And you just you reached out to the sisterhood in me in a way that I, I almost never experience in this industry more so post MeToo because we’re less turned against each other. But you just immediately plugged in to me and I just wanted to reach out. And I’m not traditionally a particularly friendly person, but there was just something about you in that moment, your openness that made me just want to kind of plug into you. And and we have this extraordinarily intimate conversation that I’ve never forgotten, even though it was five minutes and we’d never known each other before. And and I thank you for listening to me. Just this big, presumptuous weirdo oh bless you you’ve got tears in your eyes. [00:53:14][48.7]

Diane: [00:53:14] I know. [00:53:15][0.3]

Jameela: [00:53:15] But, um, but I’m also sorry that that I had to be a source of bringing up all of that pain. [00:53:23][7.8]

Diane: [00:53:24] You honestly made me feel less alone. And and like when you can like, you just never know what someone is going through, you know? And so even if it seems presumptuous and even if it seems like it’s a difficult topic because we’re talking about mental health and basically telling someone that a specific type of therapy really helped you, like, fucking do it. Fucking do it. Be open like. [00:53:48][23.7]

Jameela: [00:53:48] Yeah, risk it. [00:53:49][0.7]

Diane: [00:53:49] Risk it. Like who knew? [00:53:51][1.9]

Jameela: [00:53:51] I mean, I saved Diane’s life and now she thinks I’m God. So, I mean, Diane could look, there’s someone out there could think you’re a God is great for you. Great turnout. [00:54:01][9.1]

Diane: [00:54:01] You’re setting up my bedroom in your house because I do. I no longer feel safe when I’m without you. [00:54:06][4.5]

Jameela: [00:54:08] But that’s what this whole podcast is, by the way. It’s just all of us sharing our shit. Like, I didn’t, you know, just if anyone’s out there looking for tips on how to be a god. No. On how to reach out to someone because it does feel hard and you don’t want to intrude upon them. And it’s not always going to necessarily be met. The way that that this was like you were so open to listening to me and to just trying it out and considering it and going home and Googling it and and giving giving it a shot, giving like backing yourself that one last time. Not everyone will be, but but a tip. Is that what I did in order to be able to explain why I even know about EMDR therapy is that I quickly told you I had a history of abuse and childhood trauma. I just sort of like crowbarred in like I can recognize your pain. And there is a kind of look that we all have. It’s like a shared signal that we can all pick up on when we have been hurt in any way in life. And I think we both sense that in each other. But I told you that I had that I was in pain as well and that this had helped me get out. So opening up to other people, that’s exactly what I try and do on this podcast with my guests. Just the existence of I Weigh. And this podcast is just to make sure that, you know, you weren’t alone that day. You didn’t feel alone because you weren’t alone. And I was right there with you. And there are people listening to this right now who are right there with us who maybe haven’t even told anyone before, maybe like you that day. They haven’t even said it to themselves yet. You’re so not alone. Taking this back to immigration and the way that we have heard that it impacted your whole life and you’re the one who got it, he was able to stay. You’re not the one who got sent back to somewhere that felt dangerous and and not like the life that you had built for yourself. What do you most want people to know about the immigration system? What do you want them to take away from this, aside from the fact that they may feel less alone? [00:56:05][116.9]

Diane: [00:56:10] Well, I think that we need to listen to organizers and the people who are doing this work with communities who are going through this, like even now when we think about the new administration, right, we have to be. You know, I like first of all, it’s not just enough to undo what Trump did, right? Obviously, the last four years have been terrible and especially for immigration policy. I mean, we’ve had this terrible wall that we were building that wasn’t very functional. [00:56:47][37.3]

Jameela: [00:56:48] But those detention centers existed before Trump. [00:56:50][2.2]

Diane: [00:56:51] And those detention centers existed before Trump. Exactly. We need to get people who are making policy, who are working closely with communities of color, with immigrant communities, black and brown communities who are experiencing this. We need to have those people making policy. We need to have those people working on an entirely new vision. We need to dismantle detention centers altogether. We need to fucking abolish ICE. So when you hear people like, oh, we have like an eight year plan for this or that, OK, well, but yeah, we need to close down the camps and we need to introduce new legislation that is brought to you by by folks, by organizers who are doing this work. [00:57:40][49.2]

Jameela: [00:57:41] Any particular organizations you would like us to investigate. [00:57:44][3.2]

Diane: [00:57:45] Yes, I work with the ILRC. I’ve been working with the ILRC since I got into this work, Immigration Legal Resource Center, and they actually just introduced a bill called the New Way Forward Act. And basically it’s an act repealing a lot of horrible policy that was enacted in 1996. So it’s basically like changing these awful laws that have been in place for years that are not helping. So it’s not as simple as just putting a Band-Aid on those things. It’s just like no, no, no new vision, new everything. Take that away and instill new legislation. People should not be prosecuted for immigration offenses like crossing the border or working to support their families because because immigration is so criminalized, it’s so hard to like what we’ve been going off on as is like, well, we like the good immigrant versus the bad immigrant who is a criminal. It’s like you just crossing the border makes you a criminal. So that’s bullshit. It needs to be inclusive and yeah, down with this awful system and follow people who are actually doing the work and working closely with these communities. [00:58:58][72.8]

Jameela: [00:58:59] And this rhetoric of the idea that people are coming over just to fuck up your day, they’re coming over to steal from you or to steal your jobs or your opportunities or your university places, your homes, that that’s it. They’re coming up to take up space. That should have been yours. That is such a foolish and ridiculous outlook. You know, I come from Britain where I think people are only really now just starting to understand what a dickhead decision Brexit was and now that they’re suddenly also being denied access out of Britain. And other people are like, well, now you’re going to have to get visas and if you want to come out here and if you’re a touring musician or if you are someone who is a student who wants to travel, we’re going to make this as hard as possible. I think people are realizing, oh, we were only thinking about it as other people coming in. We weren’t thinking about the fact that we might want to move for some reason after Brexit. A lot of people wanted to leave because they realized they were living in such a racist country. So the same thing with Ted Cruz. He was fine leaving, but he didn’t want anyone else coming in. We really need to change our attitude. We need to change our rhetoric and we need to educate ourselves. And it wasn’t until I met you that day that I started to really think about that there were so many other things that causes that I was tied up in and meeting you and meeting Lucia Alayne and all these different people. And Josie Norton from Choose Love, who I finally started to become exposed to this group of people who we are deliberately not told about because the system benefits from us not knowing their plight. And that’s why it was so important for me to to talk to a survivor of that. Even if you hadn’t gone through the system yourself, you lost your family to it. And people need to humanize these stories and recognize that there are after effects, that the aftershocks happen for decades afterwards. I’m sure they’ve happened to your parents and their marriage break down. And, of course, to you, as we’ve heard. [01:00:55][116.2]

Diane: [01:00:56] Yeah well, those are the stories we don’t hear, right? I mean, we all sort of focus on like the children, but what about the parents and the adults who suffer through all of this? Like, let’s stop, like just picking out certain people who are worthy of our empathy and our care. Like we should be caring for everyone involved, because this is it’s so tragic what happens to families. And the impact is forever, really. I mean, my family is 20 years later, we’re still on the mend. [01:01:25][28.9]

Jameela: [01:01:26] Yeah. [01:01:26][0.0]

Diane: [01:01:27] We need to divest from the institutions we have in place. Right. Uh, Department of Homeland Security, ICE, the militarization of detention. We need to divest from the from those things that don’t work. And we’ve seen them not work as we see like just the criminal system in our in our country in general and invest in things like health care and education. Those are the things that are really going to make our society thrive. And we we know that that programs that are based on care and love work. That’s all. [01:02:02][35.3]

Jameela: [01:02:02] Yeah, well said. Well, hopefully we will all look further into that and and keep working towards this because this shit can happen to us at any time, as everyone learned in Texas when they suddenly wanted to get the fuck out. Anything can happen in this world. Anything can happen with the weather systems, with earthquakes, with with war that has so nearly broken out, even in this very country within the last couple of years. You just never know when you’re going to need to pick up, pack up and fuck off with maybe the people that you love the most or you want to protect the most. And so, you know, we need to to set up this world in a way that makes everyone safer. OK, so before you go, will you please just tell me, what do you weigh? [01:02:43][40.7]

Diane: [01:02:46] I weigh my laughter because it’s the most beautiful sound that I’ve ever heard and I want to continue hearing it. [01:02:52][6.5]

Jameela: [01:02:53] Oh, that’s so nice. [01:02:54][0.8]

Diane: [01:02:55] Yeah, I just want to laugh. I just want to laugh! [01:02:57][1.9]

Jameela: [01:02:59] Yeah, you’ve cried enough, mate. We all have. Thank you for giving me so much of your time and so much of yourself today and loads of love. And let’s hang because I guess we’re in love? Are we like. Are we in love? [01:03:10][11.4]

Diane: [01:03:11] I have I basically already called your people. They they’re installing they’re like making sure I have a room in your place. [01:03:16][5.5]

Jameela: [01:03:17] I saw them picking out a ring already. [01:03:18][0.9]

Diane: [01:03:19] Because my kind of friendship, my kind of friendship means sleepovers. [01:03:21][2.6]

Jameela: [01:03:22] Great. Fine. I’m all over that. I will. I’ll see you soon. I’ll see you at mine later. [01:03:27][4.8]

Diane: [01:03:28] I’ll see you soon. [01:03:28][0.4]

Jameela: [01:03:28] OK, bye. [01:03:29][0.4]

Jameela: [01:03:30] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music that you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. I really appreciate it and amps me up to bring on better and better guests. Lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 1-818-660-5543 or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@gmail.com. It’s not in pounds and kilos, so please don’t send that. It’s all about you just you know, you’ve been on the Instagram anyway and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners. [01:04:19][48.7]

Listener: [01:04:23] This is how much I weigh, I am a mother who has stopped everything to help her child see the beautiful person that she is. I’m a widow who tried to honor my husband’s legacy by being present for my kids. I am number seven of eight kids. I am a daughter, a sister, a friend, a neighbor, a community leader, and someone who feels strongly that charity begins at home. I hope my day will come when I am able to find my Chapter two, but for now I am exactly where I’m supposed to be. Thank you for reading. [01:04:23][0.0]

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