EP. 195 — Dredging It Up Again

[00:00:05] CHRIS: Hello to everybody who had stopped listening to Beautiful Anonymous. It’s Beautiful Anonymous. One hour, one phone call, no names, no holds barred. 

[00:00:15] THEME MUSIC: I’d rather go one-on-one. I think it’ll be more fun and I’ll get to know you and you’ll get to know me.

[00:00:27] CHRIS: Chris Gethard here, welcome to Beautiful Anonymous. This episode’s being released on Christmas Eve. Hello. Happy holidays to all. We’re in the holiday season. And if you do celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas. This show is a gift to me. It really is. Thank you, everybody, for supporting it. One very quickly mentioned, if you’re looking for something to do on New Year’s in New York City, I’m hosting a show, ChrisGeth.com for info on that. And also, if you’re looking to give somebody in the Bay Area who’s a listener to the show, a great gift, San Francisco sketch fest, a live taping of Beautiful Anonymous. Also having a Chris Gethard show tribute out there is awfully nice. I doubt many people come. Anyway, we talked to someone who originally called three and a half years ago, but you never heard their call. OK. That will be explained more in the course of the call. I’m really glad we did this though, it’s so cool. This was someone from three and a half years ago. The show is a little different back then. I think a lot of the longtime listeners are going to agree. Oh, yeah, this is a throwback to when the show was a little freewheeling, a little less planned, because this caller actually stopped listening to the show a while ago, which is neither here nor there. Does it sting a little? Sure. Am I going to be a grownup about it? Of course I’m a pro. People stop listening. It’s fine. With this person, it’s like they’re calling from back in the days where we go anywhere. We talk about toughness and masculinity and the musical Hamilton a whole lot, a lot of other stuff. So happy holidays and enjoy the call. 

[00:02:02] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful Anonymous a beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host. 

[00:02:09] CHRIS: Hello.

[00:02:11] CALLER: Hey.

[00:02:13] CHRIS: Hi, can you hear me?

[00:02:15] CALLER: I can hear you. Can you hear me?

[00:02:17] CHRIS: I can. This is Chris.

[00:02:18] CALLER: Hi, Chris. This is another person who’s not going to tell you their name cuz that’s not how the show works. 

[00:02:25] CHRIS: Well, then. Now I want to explain for anyone listening, this is kind of unique and pretty funny situation. I don’t know if you’d agree.

[00:02:36] CALLER: Probably, but go ahead. 

[00:02:38] CHRIS: So, you know, every year we’ve been doing these beautiful follow-up calls and we get back in touch with prior callers and we were kind of going over, oh, who shall we reach out to, this person, that person that I had said to Jared. Wouldn’t it be funny if we talked to Hot Scoop, who is the person who told a lot of poop stories? Wouldn’t that be a funny one? Then call someone back and be like “Hey. Still pooping all the time?” And we’re laughing about it. And that was in the very, very early phase of the show. And we tried to call back the number that we thought was hot scoop and instead we got in touch with you. And if my, if I have all the facts straight from Jared and I vaguely, very vaguely recommend this, remember this rather on the same day that we talked to had scoop, we had prior talk to you, but the call got dropped like less than 10 minutes in and we had, and we only now realized how to get back in touch with you. Is that the accurate representation?

[00:03:41] CALLER: That, I don’t know about the hot scoop portion of it?

[00:03:44] CHRIS: Yes.

[00:03:45] CALLER: On my end. Yeah. We spoke very briefly and I dropped my phone and it shattered. And so I could hear you trying to regain the call, but my microphone wasn’t working. And it was… I just I lived a nightmare for a few minutes trying to get back in touch with you. And then random. I never expected to call the show again because its timing never worked out. And then Jared reached out to me. And, yes, kismet. I actually have today off. So I had nothing going on. 

[00:04:15] CHRIS: Amazing. And we should be clear to anyone listening: This was over three and half, it was about three and a half years ago. We looked it up almost three years ago. 

[00:04:26] CALLER: Yeah, like I said, I, so I used to call into the show whenever you would treat the number, I like a little alert set up to them, a big old dork and I spent much maybe four hours on hold and it just never went through until the day that it finally did and then we talked for, like you said, ten minutes. And so I was like, okay, well, clearly it’s not meant to be. And I’m not going to try and force it. 

[00:04:48] CHRIS: No, it is meant to be!

[00:04:50] CALLER: Yeah man!

[00:04:51] CHRIS: And if that guy “Hot scoop” is still listen to this show, by all means, hey, reach out to us. We lost your number. I want to hear how your digestive track is doing. But in the meantime, we’re gonna give you the second opportunity. Do you still listen to the show? You can be honest. It’s okay if you don’t. 

[00:05:06] CALLER: Uh, no. But my sister does like every night to uh, no offense, but to fall asleep. She finds your voice very soothing.

[00:05:11] CHRIS: 100% what podcasts are for. I have my go to podcast that I fall asleep to. It’s the history of Rome.

[00:05:20] CALLER: “The History of Rome?”

[00:05:21] CHRIS: Yeah, it was, I think it was like a very well regarded early breakout podcast. Cuz it was one of the first ones that it was like a historian putting in work and really researching it. That being said, it’s very informational and educational, but pretty dry. So it’s great to fall asleep, too. And there’s hundreds of episodes. So I’m glad I’m honored to be your sister’s fall asleep podcast. 

[00:05:46] CALLER: Sure. I uh, I don’t know a podcast to fall asleep. I have lectures from when I was an undergrad. I took a maps and mapping class and I had a very soft-spoken South African professor who would talk about legends and graphs and charts. And I still have like notebooks where I fall asleep. You can see, like my handwriting trail off midline. Um, so, I replay those and I’m out in like five minutes. 

[00:06:11] CHRIS: Now, what did I do to lose your interest and dedication as a lesson? 

[00:06:17] CALLER: You didn’t do anything. I did a thing. And by kind of like, you remind me a lot of my time in New York and I no longer live there. 

[00:06:27] CHRIS: Got it. 

[00:06:27] CALLER: And it was, so like you were kind of a painful… you stirred up, not through any action of your own, but like your show and listening to your show stirred up a lot of painful memories. So I need to like not go back to that for a while.

[00:06:41] CHRIS: Because very often when people leave New York, it’s because New York has broken them. Is this what has happened to you? It’s in the process of breaking me, currently. After 15 years and a lot of success here, this city is grinding me down and I want out. 

[00:06:57] CALLER: You do? I feel like I mean, you’re a quintessential New Jersey-ian. But I… and don’t get me wrong, I completely agree with you. I think New York is a treadmill with spikes on its treads instead of whatever treadmill treads out of. 

[00:07:12] CHRIS: Yes.

[00:07:13] CALLER: Uh, but it… I know. I just seems like…. Where would you go? 

[00:07:18] CHRIS: Well, that’s the thing. If you were in New York and you were a fan of mine three, four or five years ago, I was like a ubiquitous part of, at that phase, not just New York comedy, but I was always on New York music shows and DIY show. I’m regarded as like a New York guy, especially back then. So I get you’re like, wait, what else would you do? Here’s the thing. I don’t know where I would go and what else I would do. But it’s… I just saw… I think I talked about this on another episode that I was just on a car with a subway masturbator at 2:00 in the afternoon. And I have a son.

[00:07:51] CALLER: Oh, God!

[00:07:51] CHRIS: And I have a son now. I can’t be… I can’t be raising this kid in a city where people just openly masturbate on public transportation. I just can’t I just can’t. 

[00:08:02] CALLER: I don’t know why the middle of the afternoon makes it so much worse, but it is. And I completely feel you like. I don’t have a newborn. But one big thing walking on the city and seem like little kids was I can’t imagine trying to bring up a person and expecting them to turn out not just full of either rage or fear, which is, I guess, fear. 

[00:08:23] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:08:23] CALLER: Of rage. Yeah.

[00:08:25] CHRIS: Yeah. And it’s like I wanna raise him someplace where people actually make eye contact and say hello to each other. And if he wants to chase a dream someday like I did, and he wants to come to the city to do it like I did. More power to you. But I’m not chasing those dreams anymore. I’m looking out for this little guy. So it’s time to peace out. 

[00:08:46] CALLER: Was that like an overnight change for you? The good…. t to me, like your… you’ve kind of achieved a dream or at least a version of the dream. I don’t know what it was when you set out, but where do you feel like, OK, I have this now? Oh, now I have this, you know, this young person that I can never my new priority or were you like, I’m still pursuing something. I’m still chasing something. And then your sons are born and bam, OK, time to completely shift priority. 

[00:09:17] CHRIS: Well, when you say that, you view me as someone who had achieved a dream. What are you referring to? Because as someone who was following me three and a half years ago, I wonder what that means to you from that perspective. 

[00:09:29] CALLER: Well, to me, from that perspective, it was like you were a ubiquitous part of the comedy scene. Uh, for me you were… you had a show like you, your show with your name on it that you called most, if not all of the shots for at least in the public access day, I don’t know if that was true for Fuze.

[00:09:47] CHRIS: Fusion, a network somehow smaller than Fuze. That picked a name too similar.

[00:09:54] CALLER: Twice the others, half the viewers. 

[00:09:56] CHRIS: HEHE. You said it. I didn’t. But I love it. 

[00:10:01] CALLER: Um, you have two books, I think and you got at least

[00:10:04] CHRIS: Three, three books. 

[00:10:04] CALLER: You’ve got at least one book I know. Oh three, wow. You have a number of books published. Um you have an incredible, if I may say so, one person show comedy special.

[00:10:18] CHRIS: Thank you.

[00:10:19] CALLER: On that got on HBO. You have…. I’m sure your fans of your show know your credits. But for me, the perspective is like in comedy you’ve got on HBO. In television, you got the show where you were the chairman for it. In improv, you were like, you can kind of show up at UCD whenever you to…

[00:10:36] CHRIS: I was a king!

[00:10:36] CALLER: … yeah, yeah, you were a king. And so seeing all of that and like you were a published author. So all of these and you’ve got your leggy punk rock girl. So like other men like you. Are you finally got it all, dude? 

[00:10:50] CHRIS: Well, let me tell you something and thank you for saying all that. It’s nice to hear my credits listed back to me. So thank you for that. But here’s the thing. So the TV show got canceled and obviously it’s gonna shake you up. That’s the thing I fought hard for. It was a thing that meant the world to me. I met my wife through it. Other people got married through it. There’s three babies that are alive right now who are through couples that met on the show. There’s another couple to get married. It was a hugely important thing in my life for a solid percentage of my life, time-wise. And it shook me up so hard. And then I sat around for about a year gone. And what am I going to do? This and that. And then I realized… nothing’s ever gonna… you can’t achieve anything that makes you feel like now I can finally sail off into the sunset. That feeling is never gonna go away. So maybe I just need to decide to stop chasing things and actually take a breath. Come up for air. And feel like yeah… I don’t think I have much left to prove and I don’t think I ever want to work that hard again. So maybe it’s time to just go chill out and figure out something new. 

[00:12:01] CALLER: Well you are a parent now. I don’t know if you can shell out that part. 

[00:12:04] CHRIS: Yeah. Well, that’s the thing that all started with you asking, did that happen overnight? And the answer is no. I was already really stressed and with career stuff. But I’ll tell you, my dad listens to the show sometimes. He knows that I love him and respect him to death. But I think he’d be the first to admit that he, he was a worker. And it’s it’s commendable. And my life was stable because of him. But he’d be the first to admit that work dominated and, uh, and that’s fine. But I just make I just maybe want to make sure that I also keep in touch with the reasons you work hard when you have a kid which is to establish a life. Anyway, listen, we’ve talked for 10 minutes and you haven’t said a word about yourself. What’s going on? What do we need to know? Are we going to talk about the same stuff from three and a half years ago, or are we talking about new current day stuff? Where are we at? Thank you for letting me vent. That was very thoughtful of you. 

[00:12:59] CALLER: Thank You. I don’t want to I don’t necessarily like to grab the reins in conversation. So thank you for indulging me there. I’m also trying really hard not to let expectation get the better of me because, you know, like I would I would when I was listening to the show regularly and like, you know, new episode comes out. That’s, that’s… that’s in the subway listen. 

[00:13:27] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:13:27] CALLER: I would have these hypothetical conversations with you. And then when we spoke, you know, three years ago, I even just in the first few sentences I was like, oh, shit. No, I like I’ve built this that way up, way too far up in my head. So what’s going on with me right now is that I’m trying to just be in the moment and listen and respond. And like give you improve about this. Or I guess be a good person about this. So with me right now, I’m no… Um, you mentioned your dad’s a worker, and I feel like that that is an accurate description of my dad as well. But he’s also a dreamer and I think passed on onto me. So I’m, I’m, I’m still chasing that dream and working hard as a result of doing it. But I.. I don’t know. Kids are kind of on and I don’t know if they’re coming down the pipeline from me necessarily, but. I reorganized my life in such a way when I was dating this girl to think like I will never have kids and we’re no longer together. And so now I’m kind of reevaluating that. So the fact that you were talking about having your kid and playing out dads and kids is maybe a good place to start. Maybe. Not.

[00:14:50] CHRIS: Sure, yeah. I love it.

[00:14:51] CALLER: my thoughts are very well organized here. I’ve got like a … I’m sure it’s a flop.

[00:15:01] CHRIS: You’re doing great. And it’s kind of amazing for me because it’s like, you know, the show has changed over the years. And you don’t know that.

[00:15:09] CALLER: I don’t do that.

[00:15:10] CHRIS: No. So it’s like I get to have an old school call where I don’t know where it’s going and you don’t know where it’s going, because now, you know, the people tend to think plan a little bit of what they want to start with. And this is like a school, you know, now, but this one feels like three and a half years ago and it would call and be like, well, what the hell is this going to be? And I love it. I love it.

[00:15:33] CALLER: Cool. Good. Yeah. Yeah. So my dad my dad works hard and loves me very much. I think I love him more out of like you’re supposed to love your dad. And yes, I’m grateful that he loves me back. So there’s a little bit of mirroring there. But I don’t really want to end up like him at all. So I think about that a lot. That’s a thing. 

[00:15:58] CHRIS: Yeah, I’ve been there. I’ve been there. And my dad’s the best. My dad’s the best. 

[00:16:06] CALLER: Even if he wasn’t listening to episodes, occasionally, he’s the best. 

[00:16:09] CHRIS: He is and I want to hear more about your situation and also we should make sure that at some point with the parent becoming a dad. Completely rearranged my feelings towards my dad.

[00:16:25] CALLER: Mm hmm.

[00:16:25] CHRIS: So I don’t know how specific you want to get about your situation.

[00:16:28] CALLER: This just keeps promising. I’m fairly an open book, so it depends how deep you want to go. 

[00:16:36] CHRIS: Let’s dove right in. My friend, we didn’t, we didn’t reconnect. Three and a half years later to skim the surface. 

[00:16:44] CALLER: You’re right. Now let’s get to it. Um. Yeah, man. Not like recent things have come to light about my dad and it’s this dad and if my sister hasn’t figured out who I am by now, she definitely will. But I found out…

[00:17:02] CHRIS: She may be asleep by now, to be fair.

[00:17:02] CALLER: that would be great. I mean, I’ve. She doesn’t listen to me to begin with. So there’s reason she shouldn’t be like oh I can just tune out, ha-ha immediately. 

[00:17:10] CHRIS: This may be the episode most of all that she uses to fall asleep,

[00:17:16] CALLER: but I hope this doesn’t affect dreams. I found out recently and I’ve always had a contentious relationship with my dad. He’s. .. He’s undiagnosed bipolar. And so he has really big mood swings and my whole life. He has. But, you know, when I was a kid, I didn’t have the words for it. So was just kind of like. You talked about this a little bit like we’ve been dealing with depression about it, like who am I going to be today? It was kind of like, who am I going to be living with today?

[00:17:48] CHIRS: Yeah.

[00:17:48] CALLER: Is it going to be like the person who is super celebratory and everything is an adventure or he just wants to wheel me around above his head and go play? Or is it going to be the guy whose like really stressed about money? Or going to make me cry because I ordered the wrong sandwich and Jack in the box. So I’ve we’ve always had trouble there. But as I’ve gotten distant from him, like going away to college, moving to New York, I’d see him maybe once every two or three years. And so it’s been easier to kind of, control our relationship like I know how much of me he sees and I don’t have to receive so much from him, like, if I don’t want to. 

[00:18:31] CHRIS: Yeah, well, you’re a grown up now and

[00:18:33] CALLER: [Inaudible]

[00:18:36] CHRIS: What’s that? 

[00:18:38] CALLER: I said, well, I’m tall. I don’t know if I’m grown up.

[00:18:41] CHRIS: how tall are we talking? 

[00:18:44] CALLER: Haha. I’m 6’2″

[00:18:45] CHRIS: 6’2″. That’s quite tall. That’s how tall my dad is. Um, which is great. I look like my mom. So if you saw me next to my dad, you’d be like, there’s no way that I was even six foot tall. Man is the parent of that five foot seven big haired boy. But it is nice to be an adult on your own. You get to set the parameters a little bit more and I’d imagine that helps a lot. 

[00:19:10] CALLER: It certainly does. For the big trouble of late is that I found out that when I was a baby, like before I had the memories of anything, he was physically abusive to my mom. 

[00:19:27] CHRIS: Oh. 

[00:19:29] CALLER: And I like he didn’t tell me that, obviously, I in fact, I’m not sure he remembers or if he does, I like … like consciously, I think he is blocked that out to maintain the image of himself that he has. So I don’t want to confront him on it, because I don’t feel like anything fruitful will come of it, but every time we talk now, I feel like this. There’s this underpinning layer of like. Why am I talking to you? You used to choke my mom. 

[00:19:58] CHRIS: Yeah, of course. That’s very let me say, extraordinarily different than my dad’s story since we were comparing. That’s uh…

[00:20:09] CALLER: Oh, sure, yeah. 

[00:20:09] CHRIS: How old were you when you when you found out about that?

[00:20:14] CALLER: I was 27 

[00:20:17] CHRIS: Ohh… I mean, when you’ve already had a life of some confusion and maybe resentment. Not to put words in your mouth. It sounds like maybe that similar feelings to there. And then at 27, you find out something that’s like crosses a red line. On top of almost 30 years of those feelings already. That must have been a bad day. 

[00:20:38] CALLER: And you want to talk about like confusion. It was. It was a very bad day. But like in that same year, I think… not even six months later. I came out to… I was outed to my dad. Thanks, sis. So my revealed to my dad that I’m genderqueer, I’m UH.. Non-binary person, even talking about like becoming a dad is a whole nugget. But we, he and I reconciled over that. And like, finally had an honest conversation about, about my identity and who I’ve been my whole life and not able to talk with about him, sort of like to have that catharsis, I couldn’t then just be like, oh, and while we’re here, what the fuck? 

[00:21:28] CHRIS: I have two questions. One, would it be more comfortable if I said becoming a parent instead of a dad in reference to you and I? Because if you’re genderqueer, I’d imagine that dad is a very loaded word with some attachments. So let’s just remind me.

[00:21:48] CALLER: Oh, sure.

[00:21:47] CHRIS: Just trying to be respectful here. 

[00:21:51] CALLER: Well, thank you. No. You’re great. And I know your heart’s in the right place. And like, come out with dad that out of the gate, I know, I know how I sound and like I’m 6 2. I get gendered as he a lot. And it’s not, it’s something that I’m actively addressing and reconciling and like feeling Trans enough vs. AM. I’m just trying to get away from being cis versus a man leaning into it. It’s like I said, it’s a lot. It’s what I write shows about. But my as far as becoming a parent. I think that is good just because dad is such a loaded word. 

[00:22:29] CHRIS: Yeah. Cool. I’ll switch it up. And if I forget, I will feel guilty. 

[00:22:34] CALLER: You, I will absolve you of that guilt as best I can.

[00:22:38] CHRIS: My, my, my great friend Mal Blum, a musician. I once before a show I was hosting a show that was like a record company showcase. And Mao and Audrey, who plays in their band Better Go I Up, I said want you to know, This is also like four or five years ago, I’m like, I’m watching and I’m going to introduce you to try to get hyped up if I get caught up in the adrenaline. I’m still figuring out the pronouns here and I apologize. I had a type of a mess up and they both looked at me were like, you always try. And that got along with you. 

[00:23:11] CALLER: At least it really does. 

[00:23:12] CHRIS: Yeah. Pretty apologizing for getting out there and being like, Welcome back then. Anyway, when your sister slips up and has that conversation, I imagine you must be like. This is the, this is the last person I want to talk to about this. Based on what you said, but then you said it was very cathartic. 

[00:23:35] CHRIS: Let’s pause there to hear more about that conversation and we’re going to go in about 10 other directions as well, right after these ads. Check them out. We’ll be right back. Thanks advertisers allowing this show to exist, for allowing me to talk to people all over the world. Speaking of which, we’re in the middle of a conversation, we’re gonna get back to it right now. Station I imagine you must be like. This is the…This is the last person I want to talk to about this. Based on what you said, but then you said it was very cathartic. 

[00:24:20] CALLER: It was because I think for the first time in my life, and in our life together, he and I had a conversation on the phone that didn’t involve him, like hanging up and calling back and yelling at me and looking up as, a as a weapon and then calling back all apologetic only to turn again. It was the first time that we had a conversation. Not only where I was fully honest, it’s like, hey, this is who I am, but where I was able where he where he listened. 

[00:24:49] CHRIS: Yeah. 

[00:24:51] CALLER: So like it was a turn and made me think like, oh shit, there’s been real growth in the 10 years since we’ve been living under the same roof. So I’m thankful for that. He still doesn’t fully get it like he’s still talking about gender. He still calls me like son and man and young man and all that. A lot and isn’t trying. But in that one conversation, there was that glimmer, like that glimmer of maybe there’s something there. That, you know, he doesn’t mean all the things you say or if you’re my kid. Well, you’re my son and you know I love you no matter what. So. 

[00:25:32] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:25:33] CALLER: yeah, he’s a he’s a complex guy. 

[00:25:36] CHRIS: The answer to this could very easily just like nah I don’t think that’s the case. Do you ever wonder because your dad was an untreated with some, some mental illness stuff, which is brutal. Do you ever wonder if some of the contentiousness like do you ever wonder he sensed that maybe there was something nontraditional about you from the start and he didn’t know how to handle it? 

[00:26:00] CALLER: I think so. I do. I honestly do. But I don’t think it was. I think my dad was very afraid. That I might be gay and in all of my projections. I think he was afraid about that of himself. He’s from a very tough neighborhood in Oakland and he is you know, he had a very physically abusive father. My grandfather beat him. So I know that, like, his version of masculinity is very traditionally rooted in aggression and battling down and covering up. So I think when my parents split, when I was a kid because my mom was tired of getting the shit kicked out her. He saw things emerging in me and blamed himself for not being there to maybe not beat them out of me, but like to train them out of me. So I think he saw my more sensitive qualities, my more emotional connectivity and associated that with my mom and with femininity. And it was a failure for him as a parent. 

[00:27:10] CHRIS: It’s so interesting to me what you’re saying right now. I have been thinking a lot about it. This idea of toughness. And I think toughness is tied in so intrinsically to growing up American, especially growing up an American male. And when you look at all the archetypes of our heroes, they’re like cowboys, astronauts, army men. When you’re a little boy, it’s like everything’s about you got to be tough. You got to be rugged. And first of all, I think it’s… So outdated. And probably the most unnecessary quality that we push upon each successive generation. I’ve been thinking so hard about this, especially as a new parent, but you know, it’s eye opening my experience too, because my dad; Really, really good guy. My thing with him much gentler. You’re your dad with untreated, abusive, all these things that I can’t say. But I was always like, he’s just working so hard. And there’s times where he’s not around. And I think he’s kind of expressed some level that I go shows around more when you’re grown up. And a lot of times he’d get back from work and it would be late at night and he’d be like all tired and stressed. And I’d kind of walk on eggshells cause I didn’t want to set him up. And there were so many good times, too. But I remember those, those days shaking me up. But in echo, in echoes of what you were just saying, now I’m a parent and I realized like. Oh, almost everything that I… Was confused by or came to resent a little bit in him. And his behavior towards… towards those situations, rather not in him. All of it was ultimately rooted in protectiveness of me, misguided or not. He… Worked hard to provide for me. I didn’t realize how poor my parents were. My mom once told me, she goes, we never told you how poor we were until we weren’t poor anymore. And I was, oh, he’s working. He worked his ass off so we could survive. And he didn’t tell me that because he didn’t want me to be scared. So I was confused. Why is he doing this while he’s doing this for me? Why does he prioritize this sense of toughness? I look back and I realize my neighborhood was kind of tough and it was unnecessary, but we needed to know how to be tough. And sometimes I would be like, why is this thing that he’s always saying to me, my brother that we got to be tough? I don’t want to be tough, but I really probably had to be in the same way your dad sounds like it sounds like with your dad. I was very much off the mark based on who you are. But he grew up in a world where you’re not tough and you’re vulnerable at all. You get eaten alive. Ultimately, he didn’t want that for you. 

[00:30:13] CALLER: He did. 

[00:30:12] CHRIS: But it’s… what’s a shame is that…. He clung to that and didn’t let who you were becoming reshape that. 

[00:30:22] CALLER: Mh-hm. And you have to wonder if the ends justify the means. 

[00:30:25] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:30:26] CALLER: they in this perpetuation of toughness, He is trying. He’s trying to protect me and provide for me. But he’s also trying to protect himself because I think he’s using me as an extension of him. You know, this firstborn and he thinks of me as his son. You know, I’m his first born kid. So he’s definitely I am… I am an extension of him and a part of him. And he. But you’re talking about coming home late from work. My dad would be out on the road for six weeks at a time, so he didn’t see a lot of my early formative years. So I think he kind of… I think he had that same maybe a sense of…It sounds like your dad maybe felt guilty about having to work so hard, but he was doing it for you. My dad did the same thing. But while I think for him, it is. Because he loves me. I still don’t know for myself how much that is about him loving himself. 

[00:31:33] CHRIS: Right. Right. 

[00:31:34] CALLER: And ego.

[00:31:35] CHRIS: Because I know that there… there are a number of memories I have where my dad, I think had the self-awareness to realize. That he was pushing so hard and there were a handful of times I remember where he went out of his way when he was already dead tired to to… to do some stuff that wasn’t reflected that and those memories are near and dear to me. Sounds like maybe. Maybe your situation, he didn’t even take that same turn at any point. 

[00:32:06] CALLER: I don’t know if he did. I don’t … it’s too much work to hold it against him/ And especially now as he’s getting older and he’s kind of like I mean, he’s always kind of stewing around and regrets. He lost a lot. And he looks at how much he lost. I want to give him this chance to redeem himself. I don’t want him to be this… I don’t want him to always be this figure to me of, you know, of the… When read like the bully can to kind of bad. But I also… think I don’t, the reason I want to confront her now about this thing with my mom is… I mean, there’s no excuse for it, but so much time has passed now that between us, I don’t think there would be any benefit to dredge it up again except to cause more pain. And maybe I’m wrong. You know, maybe I have something inside of me that needs to confront him. But it’s also not really it’s not really my confrontation. You know, it’s, it’s. ..

[00:33:16] CHRIS: So you’ve never talked about it. 

[00:33:19] CALLER: No, a month. My mom never actually told me, and I swear to God, [BLEEP] please do not say anything. If you’re still awake. But…

[00:33:28] CHRIS: did you just say your sister’s name? 

[00:33:31] CALLER: Oh, yeah. 

[00:33:31] CHRIS: We will bleep it. We’ll, believe it. 

[00:33:33] CALLER: Okay. Should I not say it? Ok Cool, cool, Cool. I swear to God sis.She…my mom told my ex my ex was like, I had no idea about this. I had no idea about what. And, you know, she, she blanched white, she did not mean to. She thought everything was out. But Geth my mom. My mom doesn’t know that I know. 

[00:33:59] CHRIS: Wow. You know, you said something that kind of slipped by. But I thought was so profound. You said… said it’s too much work to hold it against him. And I feel like that’s quietly such a profound thing that I bet people can get something out of, because the thing I really am impressed by when that hit me in the gut was like. On one sense, maybe, maybe you want that confrontation and maybe … But in the other sense, that’s you having to put your effort and work and time into something that’s dragging you back down. And is that work worth it or is that work just going to perpetuate the feelings? This doesn’t mean be in denial or not step up to the plate with responsibilities, but the idea of like that’s gonna make it work for me. And that’s not fair. It is an interesting perspective on it.

[00:34:58] CALLER: Thank you. I feel that way a lot about Anger and about like… Resentment or any of that. I just I feel like it’s. It is of no use. Anger can be a good motivator. Anger can motivate you to protect something that is yours. All of it can be a good fuel. But it’s not something… like you can’t. It’s the fuel but it’s also fire. And you can’t hold on to fire. 

[00:35:30] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:35:31] CALLER: it’s it hit like … I like you said I said it’s too much, right. 

[00:35:36] CHRIS: Yeah. And it’s I think it’s really, really great to get to a point in life where you can… Give yourself that. Where You can say I don’t need to win this battle because then I’m getting sucked into a battle that someone else has created that’s been so problematic, that’s eaten up so much time and energy and emotion already. I don’t want to put the work into your little battles. You know, there’s something very I think you want to talk about tough. You want to talk about tough. I’ll say this. Whose and you… You let me know that you were, I believe you said genderqueer. Yeah. And I’m not trying to confuse these terms. I’m saying this… You know, everyone you know, there’s people identify different ways. And I’m not I’m not equating one for the other as a separate thought, but an extension. I mean, who’s tougher… Then a Trans woman in America, right, or specially Trans woman of color. Look at the rates of what communities get murdered the most

[00:36:42] CALLER: and commit suicide the most. 

[00:36:43] CHRIS: Commit suicide the most. Get assaulted. Who’s tougher? There’s nobody. You can you. This whole idea of like you’re going to be a tough guy, you’re gonna be a tough guy because, you know, you’re… you’re like an old, old school tough guy. OK. It’s pretty easy to be a guy right now. You know what, there’s people, too, and who see you on the street. They want to fuckin murder you, but you still have the guts to walk out there and be yourself. That’s tough. That… that’s the toughest people I can think of. People where people will literally see you and have this feeling of such insecurity and such hate that they want to hurt. And you’re still willing to walk out the door and say, I’m not going to live in fear and I’m not going to live in shame. That’s way tougher than being able to throw a punch, if you ask me. 

[00:37:39] CALLER: I agree with you there… I’m not taking any credit in that there are people who are infinitely tougher than me. I’m still even just in my presentation now after I left New York and moved back to my hometown. And it’s a very small kind of rural area. So my gender, my general gender expression is kind of passing for cis and a lot of that without a protection for myself at first. And then kind of became just out of laziness. 

[00:38:06] CHRIS: [Laughs]

[00:38:07] CALLER: It’s like way easier. 

[00:38:10] CHRIS: Sure. Sure. It’s…

[00:38:10] CALLER: To not do any of the thing like most American women do on a daily basis.

[00:38:15] CHRIS: My wife once made me laugh so hard. We were trying to go somewhere and I was all impatient. We’re gonna be late. We’re gonna be late. And she just turned round to me and she goes, Hey. Being a girl takes a long time. I think I think that I may have mentioned that this show before but it… it… I opened my eyes as I was like, oh, yeah, I never have to put on makeup. I never have to decide. I don’t I just throw on my fucking ratty old sneakers. I don’t have to sit there and decide what shoes… all these unfair things like. Oh right. 

[00:38:48] CALLER: Yeah. Think about how much time it takes you to shave and how little time, I should say. 

[00:38:52] CHRIS: Yeah. 90 seconds. Have you seen my baby… My tragic inability to grow facial hair at the age of 39. That’s so funny. It’s just laziness. I don’t present as much as I would because I’m honestly… It’s a lot of work 

[00:39:07] CALLER: For real though…I mean like to keep going, going through all the motions. In addition to the emotional work … and there is

[00:39:14] CHRIS: Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:39:15] CALLER: Emotional work. But like physically, it’s just so much easier to roll out of bed and throw on whatever. Like a T-shirt and jeans and like. Yeah. Women wear a T-shirt and jeans. But if anybody sees me in addition jeans, they go, oh, he’s.. Why wouldn’t they? I guess it’s just that my bone structure and all of those. Right. So in order in order to be like, you know, for me to be even thought of as possibly a gendered differently. It’s like it’s… it’s… it’s…. strangely like putting on a mask to take off a mask. 

[00:39:49] CHRIS: Yeah. I have to say to. Most people in your, in your… who have walked your life path. When… When it’s time for them to come out. They leave the rural area and they go to New York City. Sounds like on your timeline, you were like, you know what? I feel like it might be time to proclaim myself on this on this old gender spectrum in a way… Anyway, I’m going to leave the liberal bastion of New York City, I’m going to head back to the rural hometown. That’s a little bit of a move that that I’m, I’m fascinated to know why that was the instinct, because most people are like, I am heading to Greenpoint right now and I’m going to embrace who I am.

[00:40:37] CALLER: I actually I got some friends evicted from apartment in Greenpoint. 

[00:40:41] CHRIS: Really?

[00:40:44] CALLER: That move… I don’t want to get too far into this if that’s okay,

[00:40:48] CHRIS: Sure.

[00:40:50] CALLER: Just because the, the, the …Long story short is I fucked up and then I lied about the fuck up and in lying about it I… I got caught in that lie and I’m kind of, kind of thank goodness I did because it said, I mean, I try not to live with regrets. And while I. Lost a lot… And like, like mourned and grieved what I lost, it was my fault. And it’s I mean, to where I am now and I honestly do think I’m doing. I’m doing OK now. I don’t know if I’m I regret hurting the people that I hurt. But I don’t. I don’t regret where I am now. You know?

[00:41:41] CHRIS: Yeah, yeah. That is an intriguing. An intriguing thing to say that…

[00:41:50] CALLER: I know, I know there reeks of honesty and that I will ask no further questions about because out of respect to what you said. 

[00:41:59] CHRIS: Every once in a while, got to let life’s mysteries remain life’s mysteries. That’s part of the joy of this show. But there’ll be so much more revealed. Let’s finish off this conversation when we get back. I will ask no further questions about causes out of respect to what you said. 

[00:42:28] CALLER: I appreciate that, but I do actually… I would love to talk more about it, but in… Basically, in trying to apologize for hurting these people. I… I had what my friend calls a Reynolds pamphlet moment. I don’t know if I do actually know that you familiar with Hamilton because you dropped it in your show but uh… I had my Random Moment where 

[00:43:02] CHRIS: I don’t even remember that. Oh, yeah, I did. I did. I don’t even remember that. Oh yeah, I did. 

[00:43:05] CALLER: Yeah, Yeah. 

[00:43:08] CHRIS: Yes, I haven’t. I don’t watch. It’s too hard for me to watch. I haven’t watched it in years, but I did. I had a Hamilton joke in there. Okay. Yes. You were saying the Reynolds pamphlet moment.

[00:43:16] CALLER: had a Reynolds pamphlet moment where I sent out to the… I’m in a tricky situation because I want to give more context… But in response to my renyolds pamphlet moment, somebody told me, hey, your traumatizing people by talking about this instead of just like letting it be quiet. So I don’t want to do that now again, years later. 

[00:43:41] CHRIS: Of course, of course. Of course. You learn that, you learn from the past ones and you’re done and you’re expressing that there’s no pressure here to pressure you into telling me shit you don’t want to say.

[00:43:54] CALLER: I know. I appreciate that. Chris I really do. It’s my own knowledge. Like maybe this could get back to somebody who can make peace clues together and figure out who I am. And I don’t want to stir this fucking pot in a little, in a little bit of a way, I want in my lesson that I take about my dad about like not holding on to anger to be kind of prescriptive, but all that, all of this to say I’m sorry that I hurt these people that I did, but I made a colossal fuck up. And then in trying to deal that happened the same weekend, my… my sister outed of me and my dad. So I was spiraling through so fucking much. And it’s not an excuse, but I handled it very, very poorly. And. uh… So being in New York was just too emotionally painful for me because I lost like I lost this group of friends. And so I… you know, you spend another year in that city, every block has a memory on it. 

[00:45:00] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s true. 

[00:45:03] CALLER: So in and… Now that I’m back home like, I can see a little bit the larger picture of the grain of the city. Then midafternoon masturbator, there’s just all of the expense, the sheer expense. Yeah, well, the energy in addition and time in addition to money. But living in that city. I don’t regret my view at all. I regret hurting these people, but I’m doing okay. And I really I really hope they are too, and that they know how fucking sorry I. 

[00:45:42] CHRIS: I’m sure if they hear that, they’re going to hear how honest and genuine that felt that 

[00:45:50] CALLER: I hope so man. 

[00:45:52] CHRIS: goes a long way. It goes a long way. I’m glad we reconnected, I’ll tell you that. 

[00:45:57] CALLER: I am two,

[00:45:57] CHRIS: three and a half years ago, were you as in touch with yourself now? Would it have been a wildly different conversation? 

[00:46:06] CALLER: I think it would have been. I don’t think I… I mean, I do a lot of soul searching and… You know, its quiet uptown. And I had a lot of time…

[00:46:17] CHRIS: {Laughs}

[00:46:20] CALLER: It’s a good show. I had a lot of time to walk around. And like… I dealt with my anger for the first time. I used to think that I wasn’t an angry person. And then that’s like the only reason I think of anger the way I do now is because I was so angry. I felt like a lot had been taken away from me. But then I of course, I come back around and realize, like, no, you… you forfeited that. And you do have all of this anger and a lot of it you inherited from top. But a lot of it is of your own generation and you can… You can kind of diffuse that, so it’s not such a poison anymore. It’s more just like a… a tool. But if we talked Three years ago, I would have been… I think I would have been looking for permission from you to do something. Again, this. I can remember being in my hypothetical conversation. I was in this relationship that ended and I was I was just kind of too cowardly to like… Be honest with this person and say, hey, I don’t think we should be together. I don’t think we bring out the best in one another. And I was like looking for some sort of outside source to make that call for me. That’s probably would have been…. Trying to get that from you. I would have still thought of myself as the hero of my story instead of just the protagonist. 

[00:47:49] CHRIS: Right. And there is a difference. I guess there’s, there’s a reason there’s two different words for that. There’s a lot of wisdom, a lot of wisdom coming out here. Soul searching, a lot of admission of missteps along the way. We have 15 minutes left. 

[00:48:11] CALLER: Oh, wow. That went right by. Well, we did just have the 11:00 numbers and it makes sense. That was more just a story stretcher draped in a helmet. But it wasn’t even a joke, just a reference. 

[00:48:27] CHRIS: Yeah, fair. 

[00:48:31] CALLER: And it’s…I don’t know… I… like my, my writer brain. Like, OK. How do we wrap it all together? How do we talk about me becoming dad becoming tough? How do we not ask you how you’re doing? Just in general. And still kind of keep the call localized. But I do… I am curious about you man. In addition, I like looking at you and being like, I’m an accountant. These guys are going on and clearly doesn’t because he constantly is talking about how he doesn’t have a lot going on, 

[00:48:59] CHRIS: constantly talking about how he doesn’t have it all when any one from the outside would say, you’re doing great. You’ve done some good stuff. Why? Why can’t you feel why can’t you ever feel happy? At the end of these things and I’m learning how finally after all these years. 

[00:49:19] CALLER: you have a show, you have a show… and it might do you well to re watch a fucking career suicide because you do have the mind. And I’m guilty of this too. But you have the line where you like not to quote your own show at you, but you have the line that this that this brass ring job and brass ring things aren’t going to make you happy.

[00:49:42] CHRIS: Never. 

[00:49:45] CALLER: You have had to keep. Living with it, I just toured this show that I wrote, about how like… I’m talking about how I like it. I completely rip you off. It’s a show about sex, gender identity and other black and white topics, which is like just me, paraphrasing the log line for Career Suicide.

[00:50:03] CHRIS: Oh, that’s fine. That’s fine.

[00:50:07] CALLER: Thanks. 

[00:50:07] CHRIS: When you were like I’m doing, I’ve totally ripped off your show. It’s about sex and gender. I was like that. That’s not. Oh, OK. You just me in the post. You just mean the words on the posting. Got it. 

[00:50:15] CALLER: Just the wording. I do. Yeah. 

[00:50:19] CHRIS: Right. Right. 

[00:50:20] CALLER: And in the show I talk about how like. I’m I talk a lot about my exploration of trying to find out who I am and what I am and all of these things. And it’s like this is neither here nor there. But the whole show is done in rhyme because I got way too into Hamilton. And in it …as I’m touring it, like I’m trying to do it at comedy venues. And I’m finding like it’s not totally funny, but it’s not a theater piece because… I like… I do want the jokes to be there. And I wanted to feel like storytelling, like standup, like something that you like Birbigs would do or do any of those. And then I got this whole show. And in the end, I’m talking about my like my gender identity and how, like, I’m not a man, but I’m definitely not a woman. And I don’t know. And is it OK to be both? And in my show, I say yes. And like a friend of mine who is on tour with me was like, listen to your own fucking words. Like the show… you say it’s OK to be both. The show can be both and be neither. Like it. It just is. I’m trying to fit into a box. 

[00:51:35] CHRIS: Yeah, I get it. The idea you gotta to listen your own words, your quarterback, the brass ring stuff to me and I’m like, yeah, but it’s… it’s funny. Now, it’s not like I don’t feel like I gotta get another cool gig to prove anything. It’s more like, what am I going to do? Because in light of the credits don’t roll. Just because you did something cool, you still got still gotta be alive for like, you know, like 40 more years. Like, what am I gonna do for 40 more years? So is it…

[00:52:07] CALLER: what you want to do?

[00:52:08] CHRIS: Well, that’s the tough thing. It’s like I’ve stuff I’ve done is stuff I’ve really wanted to do. But am I just gonna do it forever? I don’t know. But if I don’t. Am I like quitting and giving up? Like is the idea of quitting after the TV show? That was my dream failed. Is that like… Is that like I’m, I’m not going out on my own terms. It’s, it’s like so… there’s so many confusing aspects to it. But at the end of the day, you’re right. I need to listen to my owners. And, and I will tell you, that’s the thing that changed overnight about parenthood. Was was…like I’m. I’m no longer this person who felt like he had to put his fists up and just make it through the world on his own. I’m never on my own. And they’re not. There’s just no way. I am now connected to this other person in a way that’s… There’s not words for it. There’s just not words. So it can’t ever be about me again. I don’t want it to be. Everything now is about setting the stage and the platform for someone else. And he doesn’t know that. He don’t understand that. And I didn’t understand that. Like my dad. Like I tell you. Like I got people would be surprised. I was a fighter when I was a kid. I got in fights and my parents still talk about like that happen too often. It was it was not like, you know… Did you just break your phone again to just drop your phone and break up? 

[00:53:40] CALLER: No, I’m here. I’m here.

[00:53:43] CHRIS: It made a crazy beeping noise. I was like, that would be so funny. That would be so funny. If you have call waiting or something. Beeped again, 

[00:53:52] CALLER: I don’t. I didn’t hear anything on my end. I don’t know what that was. 

[00:53:53] CHRIS: Maybe that’s on our end. Maybe we have a call waiting. Maybe someone’s trying to get on the air

[00:53:58] CALLER: They can wait their damn turn. You’ve been waiting three years to talk to me. 

[00:54:03] CHRIS: Yeah, Three years later, we’ll call you back, buddy. But, I used to be a fighter, and I don’t think my parents were thrilled about that, but I think there is a part of my dad that was good. Got to know how. But I, I look back. I didn’t. I was an environment where I didn’t need to know how. So he made me tough. And there was a part of me that was like, it’s not I’m not tough. So why do I have to be tough? Well, I did. And he gave it to me. And now I know part of my job is like, well, now he’s positioned me in a place where that got me through some stuff. And I think I’m on the other side of it. And maybe now the next generation, my kid. He’s a little bit more in a world where that’s not a factor, where he’s not going to have to be tough in the same way I was. I want him to be tough in a certain sense, but not in the same way I was. 

[00:54:55] CALLER: Sure you Want him to have… you want him to have you wanted to be tough and that he’ll stick to his principles and then he’ll be proud of the work that he does, not who he is or where he comes from. 

[00:55:05] CHRIS: Yes.

[00:55:06] CALLER: Like, You were talking about the male emasculate, the male masculine identity and a lot of that is toughness and pride to be like, I’m proud to be an American. Think you happen to be an American? You should be proud that you’ve used …your giant American flag just drove past me. That’s so funny. Some guy in a pickup truck was just waving it in the back. But like, you should be proud of what you do with that luck and with that privilege. 

[00:55:34] CHRIS: Yes. 

[00:55:36] CALLER: But like, there’s nothing inherently proud in it. But the toughness, this it comes from sticking to your principles and sticking to your beliefs and like standing up for what you believe in, cause that that is a way tougher than winning a fight. 

[00:55:49] CHRIS: Yeah, 

[00:55:50] CALLER: Cause that’s a fight that like. Never, and like the credits don’t roll on that. 

[00:55:56] CHRIS: It’s interesting because it’s like I’ve had to think about like… like I just said, I had to learn how to throw a punch after a certain point. And I’m like, do I want my son to know how to throw a punch. I’ve sat and thought about it already and I’m like, the answer. The answer is yes, because I don’t for I don’t want him to feel like he has to throw a punch like I did where I felt like if I want these people to fuck and leave me alone, they need to understand that I can hit back, you know, like, you’re right. The people who are going to relentlessly torment me make. There is one kid within my neighborhood where kids used to follow. He was a year older. Me has to follow me to school, just making fun of me to wait for me after school so he can make fun of me and he’d do it in front of other kids. And I’ll never forget there was one day where he was doing, and as soon as we got off school property, I just dropped my bag and he’s like, what are you going to do? And I just I was tiny. I was in sixth grade, put him on his ass and I was like, that’s what I’m going to do. And nobody none of the other people there that day went out of their way to mess with me. But I don’t want my son to have to deal with that. But he needs to know how to throw a punch so that if he sees other people that he can help.

[00:57:14] CALLER: That he can throw on their behalf. 

[00:57:16] CHRIS: Well, I always think about that. Of like, if I didn’t know how to throw up. I think I think how I would say. I have tried to take that sense of toughness in my life and I have tried to extend it to some other people who maybe didn’t have the luxuries I’ve had. And I’ve, I’ve done my best as much as I’ve learned how over the years to say, like with my, with my old TV show, like I’m a white guy. I came up at UCB when his blowing up. I had parents who could. I knew that if I ever bottomed out money wise, they lived 45 minutes away and I’d have a place to crash and I was going to starve and get evicted like I had a lot of him. And then when my TV shows like, all right. Now I’m in a position to hire people for jobs. I want to hire the best people. I want to hire the funniest people. Also, there’s people who don’t have the luck I have. I want to hire them, too. I want to make sure that I can. And I’m not. I’m not saying I’m some hero for that. I could have done much better. But that sense of toughness allowed me to see, like, all right, I get to fight some fights that other people maybe need some help fight, too. And I want my son to know that. Like, if I don’t ever want my kids and start a fight, I don’t ever want my kid to have to fight one on one. It would break my heart. But if my kids saw someone getting bullied for some bullshit, like I just saw this video on Instagram of this kid and all these kids are gathered round on one kids punching them. And you can tell this kid you just fucking taking it cause there’s 10 other kids there and he’s scared that he’s gonna if fun to fight back. Now all this and a bunch of people beat him. And I would love it if my kid walked into a bathroom where that was happening and he decked one of those assholes and he came home and was like, I just got suspended from school for a month. I said, Why? And he said, because I saw a kid getting beat up and I stepped in and stopped it. I’d say, great, let’s hang out all month. 

[00:59:03] CALLER: Yeah, 

[00:59:05] CHRIS: I’m proud of you. School. You don’t have to go to school for a month. Awesome. School stinks anyway. So that’s where I’m at with the idea of toughness…

[00:59:19] CALLER: That’s a good place to be. In my opinion. 

[00:59:20] CHRIS: It’s a tool that can be utilized at your choice. But it doesn’t have to be this defining aspect of who you are. Who cares? 

[00:59:27] CALLER: No, it also should be the thing that walks into the room first. It should be from people that have your back. 

[00:59:35] CHRIS: I love that. I love that. Walk in the room and everybody needs to know you’re the strongest one in the prison yard. Now get out of here. Yeah, get out. I love hearing that. You ever thought you were good? Yeah. You are a writer. You said you write shows you can. You know how to drop it. You know how to drop something cool into one sentence that makes sense. 

[00:59:56] CALLER: Thanks man. 

[00:59:54] CHRIS: Very writer quality. 

[00:59:58] CALLER: That means a lot coming from you. Thank you very much. 

[01:00:00] CHRIS: Hey, I’m done. I just said I’m cooked. So you gotta be somebody who’s gonna grab a torch. All right. You’re the next

[01:00:09] CALLER: You can do stuff still… you can do whatever you want. You don’t gotta chase anything.

[01:00:10] CHRIS: I’ll do stuff. I’m gonna do stuff. I just gotta figure out ways. 

[01:00:17] CALLER: You got to hire people still. Let them be just… 

[01:00:22] CHRIS: The one of the cool things is that some of the people I’ve hired have now gotten to positions where they can hire people. And that makes me so happy. That makes me so happy to feel like I helped that person pay their rent when they were struggling to do that. And now they’re exceeding what I ever did. And maybe some of the integrity and the values that I took from the people I always admired and leaned on, they had a stretch of their life where maybe they were leaning on me and maybe some of those values I had. Maybe they’ll stick with it and survive. That’s cool. 

[01:00:54] CALLER: That is very cool. Now they’ll only just springboard from there. 

[01:00:59] CHRIS: Yeah. That’s what one would hope. Three and a half years. Maybe we should touch base every three and a half years. Maybe we should do a far off call. But we should say it can never. It can never be less time than the original gap…

[01:01:19] CALLER: I like that. 

[01:01:19] CHRIS: three and a half he hears every time we talk. 

[01:01:20] CALLER: That sounds great. And that’s about as I think that’s about enough time for me to accumulate another line of wisdom. 

[01:01:26] CHIRS: Yeah, I hope so. Hope so. As always, I take great joy in realizing. You and I Walk different paths. And those paths might not look like they have too much in common. But then you get down to the roots of it and it’s like we’re all just messed up by our dads and we all just wish that school wasn’t so fucking weird in America. We all wish that there were like movies about sensitive guys. Like it’s all the same stuff that mess this all up. It’s fine. It’s fine. 

[01:02:08] CHRIS: We’re way, way less different than we appear to be. I love you and I appear to be fairly similar because it’s way easier. 

[01:02:17] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we have more… I think maybe people would assume we’re the same. That’s only because you don’t feel like putting in the effort. At the end of the day. Hey, no. Or at the beginning of the day. At the end of the day, I think it’s fun. But I’m not a morning person. 

[01:02:36] CHRIS: Who wants to put on a fucking foundation first thing in the morning? Not me. 

[01:02:38] CALLER: Oh God. There’s a reason it’s called foundation. You build everything on top of it and like you got to break ground. It’s awful. 

[01:02:46] CHRIS: I love it. Yeah, like I just throw in the old T-shirts it’s fine. We have 20 seconds left. This has been…

[01:02:57] CALLER: Oh Shit. 

[01:02:57] CHRIS: Three and a half years in the making, any final words for the listeners out there? 

[01:02:59] CALLER: I’m definitely going to start listening to the show again. I didn’t… I swore a bunch and didn’t say sorry Sally, so sorry Sally. And, you know, be brave, be kind. You do you and always remember that… always give somebody a second chance, but never give them a third. 

[01:03:24] CHRIS: Caller, so nice to touch base. 30 percent of a decade after he had last spoken. Thanks for being open. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. Thanks for asking me so many thoughtful questions. Thank you to, Gerard O’Connell, for all of your help with the show and for organizing that loopy one. Thank you. Shellshack for music. Chris Gethard. Com. If you wanna know more about what I’m up to. Apple podcast rate, review, Subscribe. We’ll see you next time. 

[01:04:01] JINGLE: Catch me, face to face. 

[01:04:14] CHRIS: Next time I’m Beautiful Anonymous. I talked to as many of you as I possibly can in one hour. 

[01:04:24] CALLER: Hello? 

[01:04:29] CHRIS: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:04:32] [Menagerie of Voices]: Everybody fight for focus, right? Hello? Hello? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My secretary. Dad. Hello. Happy New Year. Oh, yeah. Hello. I hope you guys have a great year for you. This is I. I have to work him off my hands. Three more are reading your book, right? Oh, man. What? I think you’re going say hello. Mean funny. Hello. 

[01:04:59] CHRIS: That’s next time on Beautiful Anonymous.