EP. 173 — I Found Closure

[00:00:00] CHRIS: [AD BREAK] Have you ever had a craft beer while doing yoga in an art museum? That’s the kind of stuff that happens in Milwaukee. No wonder Milwaukee was named the Midwest’s coolest and most underrated city by Vogue. They even hosted the biggest music festival in the world called Summer Fest. And people actually surf there. It’s sometimes random, but always wonderful. There’s a reason my wife has always said Milwaukee is absolutely one of her favorite places to go when she’s out there talking with her bands. It’s a good place. Go to visit Milwaukee dot org slash plan to get your trip started.

[00:00:41] CHRIS: [music transition] Hello to everybody with puppies that rarely shed Beautiful/Anonymous one hour, one phone call, no names, no holds barred.

00:53 THEME MUSIC: I’d rather go one-on-one. I think it’ll be more fun and I’ll get to know you and you’ll get to know me.

[00:01:03] CHRIS: Hi, everybody. It’s Chris Gethard here. Welcome to another episode of Beautiful/Anonymous. Thanks for listening. Thanks to everybody was so nice on the internet about my baby crying in the last episode. I was very worried about it. People said that they found it cute by and large. I didn’t see anybody being mean to my child. Nice. And people also said that they really identify what they call a lot of people saying that aspects of their college life spoke to their lives. And it really it’s oh, it’s always cool to see when people can rally around the call and realize that these callers opening up, put themselves out there, offers some help to the world. It’s really nice. Hey. Of interest if you’re in Michigan. First one in a longtime live Beautiful/Anonymous taping come into the Motor City Comedy Festival. ChrisGeth.Com for tickets, doing a live taping and Beautiful/Anonymous. Also doing a standup show. Come to one. Come to both. I’d love to meet you. Get the awkward hugs that the Beautiful Anonymous fans are known for. It’s been awhile since I’ve been out on the road. Should have more dates coming soon as well. This week’s call. I’m very fascinated by fascinating experience. Sort of two calls in one, ya get two for the price of one. The first 20 minutes of this call, the caller talks about something that’s sort of meta, but really fascinating, I think, to listeners of the show. What’s it like to hear yourself mentioned on Beautiful/Anonymous? This caller has had that experience in another call, a sort of notoriously intense call. This caller was brought up by the other caller. I’ve always wondered about this. I’ve been really concerned about the responsibility I have in when people get mentioned in. This caller was able to tell me what it was like. Interesting stuff. The second two thirds of the call caller gets into their own story. And it’s really, really interesting. Caller deals with something that’s heavily stigmatized in society. This this situation was created through a really, really brutal situation that no one would ever wish upon anyone. But it’s left them with dealing with something that we’ve all heard of that’s very demonized. And I’ve always been proud that this show, I think, really tries to destigmatize things that are out there that don’t deserve their stigmas. And this one should be very eye opening in that regard. Enjoy the call.

[00:03:18] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful/Anonymous a beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host. [Beep]

[00:03:27] CALLER: Hello.

03:27 CHRIS: Hello.

03:30 CALLER: Hi.

03:31 CHRIS: Hi.

[00:03:33] CALLER: Is this Chris?

[00:03:34] CHRIS: It is. This is Chris.

[00:03:37] CALLER: Oh, my gosh. This is crazy.

03:40 CHRIS: How are you doing?

03:43 CALLER: To be honest, I’ve had a hell of a week, but I am hoping I’ll be OK.

[00:03:51] CHRIS: I tell you, I’m on the same page. We’re in similar mental spaces it sounds like.

03:56 CALLER: Good, we’re not alone. [laughs]

03:58 CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:04:00] CALLER: That’s good to know. Sometimes it feels like you’re alone and really struggling.

[00:04:04] CHRIS: Whoo! Yes. You tell me. Well, we got each other at least for the next hour. We got each other.

04:11 CALLER: That is true. This is crazy. Oh, man. When I thought my week couldn’t get any crazier, here we are.

[00:04:21] CHRIS: What’s up with this week?

[00:04:24] CALLER: Well, I started a new job this week that I thought was going to be this really big shift. It was like a promotion and more money. But it’s in a different part of town. And I was feeling really bored at my old job like I wasn’t pushed creatively to do more, to stretch my own career goals, so I took this job to do that. And now I see myself clearly craving the comfort of my last job, even though I know that’s not productive. But that’s how I’m doing.

05:06  CHRIS: So you’re pining for the past a little bit. I’m sorry that this job anxiety is kicking in.

[00:05:12] CALLER: That’s okay. I mean, with any sort of change, you can always expect some sort of anxiety, but I guess I haven’t made the change, I think, in so long that I forgot how challenging it could be.

[00:05:25] CHRIS: I hear ya. You gotta roll with that punch. And now here you are in the middle of the workday, taking a hour long phone call in the middle of your first week.

05:34 CALLER: I know.

05:35 CHRIS: Now is this going to get you in any trouble at work?

[00:05:36] CALLER: Well, actually, we work from home on Fridays, so I don’t think so, but we’ll see. I strongly doubt it. This is anonymous.

[00:05:48] CHRIS: Well, I hope I don’t get you in any trouble. Work from home Fridays. That’s a pretty good deal.

[00:05:54] CALLER: Yeah, I have a puppy, so it’s helpful to have him, like, near me during my work day always helps me out.

[00:06:01] CHRIS: In terms of it allows you access to the puppy so that you can care for it, or more that just being around an adorable puppy chills you out?

06:10CALLER: A little bit of both. I have major, like, puppy alarm bells when I don’t spend enough time with him. That’s probably the biggest thing. But he’s also really, really adorable. So that helps a lot, too.

[00:06:22]CHRIS: Now, our listeners love animals. Can we just go ahead and give a sense of what breed, size, people are trying to envision this cute puppy in their minds. Let’s help them out.

[00:06:32] CALLER: OK. So he is about 21 pounds. He’s very curly, he is beautiful. He is actually a cavalier poodle mix. So he’s a cavapoo, is what they call him. And he is just the best. He’s got an all white chest, but kind of like a tuxedo, and his red, curly lock.

[00:06:56] CHRIS: Red curly lock.

06:57 CALLER: He’s always smiling. Oh, yeah. They like to call it apricot color.

07:02 CHRIS: Apricot color. Now I understand doodles don’t shed. Is this true?

[00:07:07] CALLER: This is mostly true. They don’t shed traditionally, but there are times when people get a lot of, like when he was a puppy he had puppy tufts coming out of his coat, like out of the top of his head or whatever. But they don’t shed unless they are just getting rid of some of those mats or the puppy coat.

[00:07:28] CHRIS: All right. I’ve said it on this show before. I’m not really a dog person, but I got to say, I like the description of your dog. Sounds cute.

[00:07:36] CALLER: He’s pretty cute. He’s converted many, so I think he could convert you as well, Chris.

07:41 CHRIS: Hmm. Hmm, hmm. Well, luckily for me, I’ll never meet him in real life and be tempted to like dogs all of the sudden.

07:48 CALLER: Right? Exactly.

07:53 CHRIS: So what are we talking about today? What would you like to talk about? I assume we’re not going to spend an hour on the puppy.

[00:07:59] CALLER: I mean, I could spend many hours on my puppy, but I actually, I left two voicemails for you guys, and I’m not sure which one you got or are interested in. But the thing that makes the most crazy is a connection to your show that gave me this the weird closure in my life to a chapter I was really struggling with. And that happened a couple of weeks ago, and I think it was the most surreal experience I’ve ever had in my life.

[00:08:35] CHRIS: Well, this is intriguing. So you had, you listened to an episode of Beautiful Anonymous and it personally involved you? Is that what you’re saying?

[00:08:45] CALLER: Yes, 100 percent.

[00:08:48] CHRIS: Well, I can. OK. I want to know everything. I’m wondering how this one’s gonna turn out. But this is really fascinating to me because I, I think I mentioned this on the show maybe a month or so back, I actually saw someone leave a comment on Reddit about the show where they said, you know, yes, I used to really like Beautiful Anonymous, and then I heard, I heard a phone call where someone was talking about someone I knew and it was pretty distorted and it made me really, like, turned off. And it was something I hadn’t considered before. I think most of the episodes are people telling their own personal experiences. But sometimes, yes, sometimes they involve third parties. And I really, that really shook me. So you are saying you are one of the third parties who has been mentioned on the show.

[00:09:35] CALLER: Yes. Yes, I am.

09:37 CHRIS: Wow.

09:39 CALLER: It wasn’t necessarily a negative experience. It wasn’t really a positive experience, but it is just the cosmic closure that I never could have expected.

[00:09:53] CHRIS: Well, how? OK. I’m glad. OK, I’m glad that it wasn’t a truly terrible experience. Do you want to, do you want to talk about which episode in particular involved you or not?

[00:10:05] CALLER: I mean, I’ll just say that it was a couple weeks back and it was actually a very popular episode that got mentioned a lot of times in the episodes that came after it because of it, because this person’s certain method of therapy comes up a lot. So as I was listening to the show in the weeks after that, I just kept being reminded that. But then, it was such an impactful episode. And I’ll just go ahead and say it, why not. This is the one with the roommate episode?

[00:10:42] CHRIS: Wait, what was the last part I missed that. The very last..

10:44 CALLER: It was the worst.

10:46 CHRIS: It was the worst roommate

10:48 CALLER: The worst roommate episode. Yeah.

[00:10:51] CHRIS: OK. Wow. Wow. ‘Cause that was, that was one that made a big impact. When you said it was talked about a lot in the next episode, I had a feeling.

I have to, oh, this is I mean, this is touchy, this is touchy. This was a divisive episode. This was one where a lot of people said, a lot of people had opinions on how, on how it was handled. I definitely was rolling with the punches. I’m going to ask, and again, if you, it’s this is very you can hear how nervous I am to be on the phone. I just ask, are you the roommate?

[00:11:29] CALLER: Oh, I am not the roommate. I will go ahead and say that right now. I’m not the roommate.

[00:11:33] CHRIS: OK. OK. I will tell you that I just turned to my right and saw both Harrid and Jerry, Jared and Harry react. All of us had the same body language of, like, a tension, a tension surrounding us. So you were not the roommate, but you were involved in some level on that story tangentially?

[00:11:52] CALLER: Yes. Correct.

11:54 CHRIS: OK.

11:55 CALLER: I’m also not the boyfriend, as you can tell but I am a female.

11:58 CHRIS: Not the boyfriend, not the roommate. So you were in the life of the caller during the stretch of time, though.

[00:12:07] CALLER: Yes, I was.

12:09 CHRIS: Wow.

[00:12:11] CALLER: For a lot of the time, and at the end of the episode, when you prompted her to ask if there was anything that she had done to protect herself from that situation happening again, she brought up that she had to cut out someone that she thinks others is still to this day, a best friend of hers. And that’s me.

[00:12:41] CHRIS: This is wild to be on the phone with you.

[00:12:47] CALLER: It’s really wild to be on the phone with you, too, and this whole experience is completely insane. I remember, ’cause I hadn’t listened to the show in a minute because I was so busy with stuff at my old job and I was on my way home and generally I listened to murder podcasts.

13:06 CHRIS: Mmhmm, as many do these days.

[00:13:07] CALLER: Right. Exactly. I’m not alone there, either. So I didn’t have any downloaded that day for some reason, but, I just thought if there was this episode of Beautiful/Anonymous, I was like, actually, I could really get into that right now. So I put it on and then, just small things that started coming together, like, oh that sounds like something familiar to me, but no, no, no. It couldn’t be. And then more and more me kept coming up in the first five minutes of the call. And then I was just like, crazy shit. Sorry, Sally. This can’t be happening.

[00:13:46] CHRIS: Just to make sure that I did hear everything. So what we’re dealing with here is there was a prior call where someone had been dealing with a situation that was very intense in their lives. And I remember the exact moment you’re talking about when they said they did kind of have to jettison a lot of the people they knew just to create distance from that whole area. And you’re one of those people who was cut out in the course of that.

[00:14:06] CALLER: Yes, absolutely. That’s right.

[00:14:09] CHRIS: And you said that you have been, and I’m not offended by this,  you said that you kind of haven’t been touching base with Beautiful/Anonymous much lately and just sort of randomly said, I’ll just listen to this one and then it involves your life.

[00:14:23] CALLER: Yeah. It really was like something that not only involved my life, but had really shaped the way I was living my life, because this person was my, like, ride or die best friend for the past decade of my life.

[00:14:43] CHRIS: And then, so from your perspective, for you, for however many years it’s been since everything hit the fan. You had this friend you were intensely close with who just kind of created this distance that you couldn’t quite figure out.

[00:15:01] CALLER: Mmhmm. Exactly. And it came after, like, we hadn’t had a fight in our friendship for basically the entire time. And we had a mini fight on Christmas break. I usually go spend days with her for her birthday and we had a fight because she wouldn’t pick me up from the airport and I didn’t understand why. And I’ve been traveling all day and I was like, this can’t possibly be the only thing going on. And when she did break off our friendship, it was at a time that was really just the worst time for me to lose a friend. So to go through that situation I was going through that I really needed her and not have answers was just like, I can’t even explain how hurtful it was

15:55 CHRIS: And how many years ago did this all go down?

[00:15:58] CALLER: This happened this January, 2019.

[00:16:03] CHRIS: So pretty recent. So you’ve been sitting here for six or seven months, though. What was that all about?

[00:16:14] CALLER: Yeah, exactly. And I had gone, I started to go into therapy again for a couple of reasons. And this being one of them, of just not understanding how someone who knows me so fundamentally, like, went through all like the teenage years shit with me and basically knows every fiber of who I am, how she could just kind of call me off. And that made me wonder, like, am I really that bad of a person, like, when you know everything about me and I don’t even get an explanation as to why this is happening, especially when I need you now, arguably more than ever.

[00:16:59] CHRIS: So you hear the episode. Is it eye opening? What, are there revelations in there where you’re going Holy shit. Okay.

[00:17:10] CALLER: Oh, yeah. One hundred percent. When I was listening to her, I was like, oh, my God, how did I not know about any of this? And all, like, it gave me this clarity that I could not have discovered in any other way, because she wasn’t talking to me despite my best efforts. So this is really the only way I was ever going to get the closure like so desperately needed.

[00:17:39] CHRIS: Wow. Well, on some level, I have to say I’m very happy to provide that closure, although this is quite strange to discuss, and I also will say that there’s, you know, odds are that a caller, if your friend called the show, clearly listens to the show, probably will hear this. I want to make sure that, you know, you’re laying out your perspective that it was heads spinning for you and caused you some pain. I want to make sure that caller knows that. On my end, at least, I don’t want this show to become a vehicle for guilt to be passed back and forth.

[00:18:15] CALLER: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, I reached out to the caller, actually.

18:20 CHRIS: Oh, you did?

18:21 CALLER: After I heard it and during the call, ’cause when I started to realize maybe I should try to reach out, I was like, is this you on Beautiful/Anonymous right now and she didn’t answer. I like oh, well, look what I’ve done again, because she hadn’t talked about this until the very end of the episode. She did it eventually and during confirmed it. And I was like, look, I’m really proud of you. I had no idea, obviously, what you were going through all of these years. And I just really admire your grace for going on and being able to say all the things you said and inspire other listeners. And that was before I heard my part. And we didn’t actually talk about the parts that she mentioned me, but, the fact that she mentioned me doesn’t change how proud I am of her for being able to say all those things.

[00:19:09] CHRIS: So you were, so, yes. So this isn’t, so that’s I think a very that’s a relieving thing for me to hear, and I’m sure the listeners, so. As you’re expressing your feelings, you have touched base, you have, so this is not, there’s not shit talking here. You have, you, you have, at least on some level, rebuilt that bridge, even if it was just for a few exchanges.

[00:19:30] CALLER: Yeah, I would say so. I think in the months before I heard this call, I was definitely just really upset. But then, I didn’t, I didn’t know it was going on. And I probably said some things that I shouldn’t have said. And just about being confused about friendship and what that meant to me versus what that meant to her. So, I’d say we definitely have rebuilt a friendship, branch? If that’s a good word? But we’re not necessarily on speaking terms, so we don’t talk regularly at all. But we did reconnect a little.

[00:20:09] CHRIS: So it’s not what it was by a long shot, but you feel like maybe the wound is not as open as it was.

[00:20:15] CALLER: That’s a great way to put it. Yeah.

[00:20:17] CHRIS: Now I want to just be clear about something else. So I mentioned that the call you’re referring to, there was a lot of talk of certain types of mental illness, borderline personality disorder among them. A lot of people, you know, the direction that the call went, and my reactions to it. A lot of people are saying, hey, that that is a particularly stigmatized type of mental illness. And it sound, you know, this sort of played into some of the things that I think people sort of bring up as the most extreme scenarios. And it paints people with a wide brush. And a lot of people who are, who also have BPD were saying, you know, I’m I have been able to manage it and, you know, work on it. And not everybody goes in these extreme directions. So I want to make sure that I put that out there before we discuss it any further. That being said, so, when you were around, and again, not to talk bad about third parties, did you know? Did you, did you? Were you wary back then of, you know, for anybody who hasn’t heard that call, the caller who mentioned you talked largely about having a roommate who wound up sort of controlling them as your friend’s friend. Do you remember that era and going, What is going on with this relationship? Like, did you see that relationship from the outside taking that dark turn?

[00:21:40] CALLER: I have to say that I didn’t. It’s a great question. But I actually went to college on the West Coast where I was pretty far removed from her day to day life. So the only interaction I had with, I still don’t know if it’s this roommate, but I think it’s this roommate, the only interaction I had with her was a pretty spring break trip, like probably freshman year or something like that. And I remember she was a little off color and just not someone that I had interacted with before, but I didn’t notice anything day to day, probably just because of my distance from the situation. And maybe that’s why she felt like she couldn’t tell me because I was so far away, like 3000 miles away, like, I couldn’t really offer or extend that much help from where I was.

[00:22:32] CHRIS: Wow, that’s wild. This is wild. You know, sometimes people say, yeah, I mean, sometimes people say to me like, oh, I heard the show and I heard the episode about blank. And it really helped me consider that perspective. But I’ve never heard from someone who said I heard that episode and it connected actual personal dots in my life in a way that resolved some some hanging threads or mysteries that I had been, had been really bothering me.

[00:23:01] CALLER: Right. It’s crazy. I could have never expected that would happen.

[00:23:06] CHRIS: Wow. Now, here’s another question. So you you left a voicemail about this and we reached out, but you said you actually left another voicemail. Did you leave the other voicemail before your friend appeared on the show?

[00:23:18] CALLER: Yeah, I did.

23:19 CHRIS: [laughing, indiscernible words] So you’re both just independently fans of the show. Now, did you know? Did you know that you each were fans before? Like, was this a thing before your friendship splintered? Did you know, oh,  we both have a shared fondness for this particular podcast.

[00:23:37] CALLER: Oh, yeah. I mean, she’s actually the one that showed me.

[00:23:41] CHRIS: And then you both get on the show and you’re able to submit. OK, so listen, I don’t want this whole thing to just be reactions to your, your ‘me on the friend’s’ show. Are there any, knowing that it gave you closure to hear your friend, it might be nice. Are there any any things you’d like to say, knowing that your friend is proud, you listened to her, it gave you something. Is there anything you’d like to say that you think might offer her some closure or her some, something similar to the experience you had before we move on?

[00:24:16] CALLER: That’s a tough one. I mean, it’s kind of still what I said to her via text, just, I’m so proud of her and, going to get emotional, despite the difficulty that I went through with her walking away, I understand why she did it and I don’t hold any, any negativity towards her for that. And, all of the years of our friendship still mean the world to me. And if she ever wants to reconnect, that would be fantastic. But if not, just having her know that everything’s OK, and I understand.

[00:25:08] CHRIS: That’s real life. That’s very real. And I’ll say, too, I don’t remember if I mentioned this during the prior call, but maybe just to give you a little bit of tension release, like, because I, there are people from my time, especially when I was at Rutgers University, people who were friends of mine, who I will see them once every five or six years at this point. And I have one friend in particular who was such a good friend to me, my friend, Egyptian Mike. And he has said to me a few times off like, why? Why did you disconnect and why haven’t you reconnected in the times where I’ve kind of opened the door and we have a little bit at this point, you know, 17 years after I graduated, but I have to say to him, I had to say to him at one point, honestly, like, that was the hardest time in my life. And you were in no way a part of the hard times, but it’s just super difficult for me to live in that, those memories at all and even the good memories, kind of, forced me to hang on to the bad ones or live in the bad when I say that, to say that I think I was probably closer to your friend in the, in the dynamic, there we’re talking about and I say it to say, you didn’t do anything wrong. You’re just a casualty of someone who went through some really traumatic stuff and it’s super painful. But you didn’t do anything except be around while someone lived a rough patch of life. And I don’t know if that offers any, any comfort? But that’s my intention by saying it.

[00:26:50] CALLER: No, I think you definitely offer some comfort and I know that I respect greatly what you’ve done for the mental health community and opening that dialog, so I know you’re not a therapist. You’ve made that very clear.

27:04 CHRIS: Barb gets mad, Barb gets mad when I play in that role. No way.

[00:27:09] CALLER: I feel you. OK. We’re not saying that. But I do appreciate the dialog that you’ve opened and that does offer a lot of comfort because I feel like those are conversations that need to happen, so people just understand a little bit more about the empathy and that they need to have for other people.

[00:27:32] CHRIS: Well, happy to do my part. Now, I’m very curious to know, before you know. Okay. So the first 25 minutes, this call we talked about how you have heard yourself mentioned on the show, you’ve heard about a situation that you viewed from afar, the head-spinning nature of that. What was your other voicemail about, before any of this happened, what was the other voicemail that you left? Because, because I feel, like this is like a statistical impossibility that that you’ve actually left two and we get to talk about them both?

[00:28:01] CALLER: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. And I will say that the first one I left, it’s a tough, tough topic.

[00:28:13] CHRIS: [music transition] Let’s go ahead and pause right there, because as you can sense, we’re gonna segue into an entire other calls’ worth of material right now. You get two for the price of one. Now that’s the deal. Speaking of deals, we got advertisers. Check them out. Use the promo codes, it really helps to show when you do. Back after this. And buckle up because it’s going to go on a whole new direction that you’re not going to believe.

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[music transition] Thanks again to everybody who sponsors Beautiful/Anonymous. Now let’s get back to the phone call.

[00:31:31] CHRIS: You’ve actually left two. And we get to talk about them both.

[00:31:36] CALLER: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. And I will say that the first one I left, it’s a tough, it’s a tough topic and it’s something that a lot of people are not going to understand and a lot of people might, might fault me for talking about it, but I think that’s why I wanted to talk about it, because there’s a lot of stigma around what I want to talk about. And even now, it’s, like, tough for me to come out and talk about it because, it’s still hard for me and it’s still something that I am dealing with. But I think it’s important that a dialog is opened.

[00:32:26] CHRIS: Well, I’m quite intrigued, and I just want to make sure, you know, we’ve thrown you for a loop calling you out of the blue, I just want to make sure that you are comfortable talking about it. I would never want to put you in a position where, you know, you dive into something that you’re not feeling in the moment.

[00:32:43] CALLER: Yeah. No. I think I’m all right with talking about it. It’s, it’s something that I’ve luckily been able to really handle with my therapist and also with a lot of support from amazing friends that I have around me, including this friend. She’s aware of the topic as well. Basically what happened is a couple of years ago, I went on a girls’ trip with some friends of mine and I ended up going to a bar and being drugged and sexually assaulted by a complete stranger. Never found out who he was. He just kind of, I woke up and he just put me out in the hallway and I had to find my way back to where my friends were. I never knew his name, never. Never pursued it because I just kind of felt, like, I felt like, maybe [indiscernible], maybe it was something that I deserved at that time, which I know now obviously it is not. But that is why I did not pursue any sort of action against it. So not only was that awful, but after the fact, I found out that this person that I don’t know passed along a incurable STI to me.

[00:34:14] CHRIS: Ooh, I am so sorry that that happened.

[00:34:18] CALLER: Thank you.

[00:34:18] CHRIS: On every level. That is horrible. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.

[00:34:24] CALLER: It’s OK. And it was really hard to go through that for the first couple of years transparently. Because there’s a lot of stigma around that. And about people that go through that. And people that have to continue living their life after that happened.

[00:34:51] CHRIS: Yeah. Yeah, I cannot imagine, I cannot imagine.

[00:34:57] CALLER: Yeah, it it’s been, it’s been difficult. Honestly, like I know doesn’t sound like it right now, but I have a really fantastic life, obviously with my puppy that I have talked about before. He’s sitting next to me now. And a great significant other and great roommates and friends. So I’ve been able to come out the other side. But I think it’s worth talking about how just because a person has an STI, whatever it might be, whether it’s curable or not, doesn’t make them any less of a person. And I feel like a lot of things like mental health are talked about in a more open conversation. But you don’t hear a lot of people talking about acceptance of that situation.

[00:35:50] CHRIS: Right. Right. It’s kind of, it’s kind of held up as a, as a boogey man in health classes and in junior high school and high school. It’s sort of that’s how I think most of us start dealing with it. Like you, you know, you don’t want this to happen, but there’s not really any discussion of, well, what if it does.

36:12 CALLER: 100 percent certain.

36:14 CHRIS: And certainly in a situation where it could not be less fault of your own. This is not, this is not a situation where, where anyone would say that your own behavior led to this situation. And even if it did, that doesn’t matter. And I like that that’s part of what you’re saying of winding up in a situation where you have one of these things, it is a thing that it’s warned against but not really talked about when it becomes a reality. That’s so hard. Let me ask. Can I ask you a few things? One, you know, to hear that, that’s the imagery that you say you were just kind of like left in a hallway and had to find your way home is brutal to hear. Did you, was there any effort to go back and try to find this guy and get this son of a bitch? Did you ever, I imagine it just proved impossible because you were in an unfamiliar place and recovering from drugs? But do you ever try to pin this bastard to the wall?

[00:37:20] CALLER: I mean, I would have liked to, but I didn’t honestly realize or accept that I was assaulted until probably about a week after I got back. And I was talking about the experience of a good friend of mine. And they’re like, you know, it sounds like you were raped. And I was like, shit. I think you’re right. And why? Why didn’t I think of that before?

[00:37:46] CHRIS: Right. And what did you, did you realize you had been drugged before that or did you think maybe you had just had a few too many drinks? Was that, did your friend help you piece that together as well?

[00:37:57] CALLER: Well, that was the tough part. I thought I’d just had too much to drink, but I really couldn’t remember how I got, I can remember how I got to this person’s apartment and then I looked at my phone to see that, like, my friends. They asked me where I was. I just send back letters. Like it wasn’t even an attempt at a word. It was just. Garbled. Letters that didn’t make any sense. And that’s what I knew, like, something was really wrong.

[00:38:37] CHRIS: Yeah. Yeah. So you, so it’s, it’s not, it’s many days later that you even start to realize, wait. That was not. That’s not what happens when you have a couple, when you have a few shots. You shouldn’t have had this something. And then you realize, oh, my God, this person took advantage of me. Holy shit. And it all comes kind of tumbling down at once. Oh, my God, that’s horrible. These, I have to say, there is a, I think that this, the, I’ll just go ahead and say that I think there is a a a special corner of hell reserved for men who, who, who do that? I think that that’s a truly particularly awful type of behavior that deserves nothing but the worst. And I hope, I hope that whoever this guy is, that someone, that somebody has caught him and, and, and that he has received his due punishment, because that’s, that shouldn’t happen to anybody. It’s fucking horrible. And I’m so sorry.

[00:39:42] CALLER: Thanks. I appreciate that. I think you’re right. I think there’s a special corner of hell, it’s really spiky chairs waiting for those humans.

[00:39:50] CHRIS: Yeah. Yeah. It’s. I think it’s really true. OK. OK. So focusing, focusing on, I would never say the positive, but the proactive side of what you said. Talk to me about the stigmas. Talk to me about having to reconcile understanding that you’ve come to have an incurable condition. Talk to me about how you’ve come to sort of rally around this idea of this needs to be talked about more and the types of conversations that you wound up having due to it.

[00:40:28] CALLER: Well, I mean, it took me a long time, to say that and to accept the fact that I was going to be dealing with this, there’s a lot of denial that I was going through. So, I honestly didn’t want to confront my situation for a long time. I would say that for probably about a year and a half or so that I just, like, didn’t tell anyone. I didn’t date anyone. I just came and stayed in my lane. And just tried to move on in denial, but then I I realized that that wasn’t making me happy and I needed to just start to accept the fact that this is life now. But it was tough because there’s so much stigma, with like all these comedy movies where it’s like in “The Hangover” is always mentioned, like, you go to Vegas, like, watch out what you come back with. Like, there’s just a, it’s in movies, in on these, like, Instagram channels that are geared at college-age guys. They have like cake that read like Sorry for the, like, for the STI. And it’s just it’s become this just joke. And the comments, I can’t read them anymore because they still hurt me. Just about how gross those people are and et cetera, et cetera. So I just distanced myself from that that I didn’t, I didn’t fully confront that this is my reality until I met someone that I really wanted to be with in that way, and I knew that if I wanted to be with someone again, I would have to tell them about my situation because I didn’t think it was fair. And I don’t think anyone should withhold that information from someone, especially someone that you care about. So I met someone that is still my significant other to this day and I love them very much. And I didn’t sleep with them for a while, in today’s day and age, probably about two months. And I went through a lot of nights,

just Googling how to tell someone about this. Reading other people’s stories. There’s so many message boards about it. And one message board was like, I just found out that I was diagnosed and no one will ever love me again. And it was a lot of just like, well, I have to be bold and I need to figure out how to tell this person and not run away. And I have to accept the fact that if they do run away, they’re not worth my time. Or, by some crazy chance, they’ll stick around because maybe I’m worth more than a skin condition.

[00:43:51] CHRIS: That is it. That is a, that’s that’s a scary conversation to have. Psycholo-, psychologically, I would have to imagine that, I would have I would have to imagine that, you know, living inside a stigmatized thing and feeling like when people approach you with, you know, when people are flirting with you or people who are clearly like they got a crush on you and you have to kind of shut down your own sexuality, your own desire for companionship. Psychologically, that has to, you have to feel like you’re drowning underneath that a little bit and I can’t imagine when you go, oh this person is the one that I need to take a chance with because I’ll kick myself forever if I don’t. That has to be so scary. That fear. Fear of rejection is such a real thing. When you’re just trying to get somebody you like to go on a date with you, let alone when you’ve got this other thing that puts you so deeply in your own head. So how does that conversation go? You said that you’re still with this guy. What what do you say? What is the response? What’s the timeline of how things get processed? I’m very fascinated by this.

[00:45:05] CALLER: Yeah. I mean, it took me a long time to kind of build up the courage to have this conversation. So it ended up being like one night we’re all hanging out with some friends of mine. And we went upstairs and I knew that like it was now or never. I had to say something because, like, I wanted him to be there, I didn’t want him to go. I just kinda sat him down and I told him I needed to tell him something and I let him know that several years ago, I was sexually assaulted by a stranger, and unfortunately they made me a carrier of a certain STI that cannot be cured at the current time. And while I don’t personally show symptoms, which is true, I don’t show symptoms. It is something that exists in my body and that’s just a part of who I am and I’m not sure if that, is something that you talked about or heard about before, but I’m happy to answer any sort of questions you might have, and I also understand if you just want to go. But I just I would love it, to be honest with you, because I think that’s what you deserve. And that’s kind of how that conversation was.

[00:46:35] CHRIS: And what, and what’s the reaction is, is it? Is it. Is it the dream reaction of like, hey, like I know about this stuff and I’m not going to judge you and we’re gonna figure it out. Is it, I need some time to process this and that leaves you kind of sitting there worried for a while. What’s the reaction? And I want to know how it leads to you guys being together, because that’s me. This makes me like your partner a lot.

[00:47:04] CALLER: I like him a lot, too.

[00:47:05] CHRIS: Yes. This is a good egg. It’s a good egg who sought out empathy and understanding and worked from that perspective. So I want to know how, how we got from from that conversation to that empathy and understanding.

[00:47:22] CALLER: Yeah. He honestly answered it in the dream way. He was like, OK, thank you for telling me and we’ll figure it out and I’ll look some stuff up. But it’s not a big deal.

[00:47:38] CHRIS: And let me ask the time. I’m going to ask a question that’s way too personal, but that’s what this show is.

47:45 CALLER: That’s okay.

47:45 CHRIS: And we’re going to get personal already. So you mentioned you need sleep together for two months. Is this, I’m just wondering, timeline wise, like, do you tell him about this pretty early and then you guys are kind of taking your time for a few months, finding out. Or is he going, We’re really hitting it off here. There’s sparks, flying. Why are, we’re two months in. We’re young people. Why are we waiting a couple months on this?

[00:48:06] CALLER: I think it’s a great question.

[00:48:11] CHRIS: [music transition] We’re gonna pause right there. Because we have advertisers and, those advertisers offer products that can enhance your person in ways. So before I ask a personal question, let’s give you a chance to think about your personal life.

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[00:50:01] [music transition] Thanks to all our advertisers. Now let’s finish off the phone call.

[00:50:06] CHRIS: We’re really hitting it off here. There’s sparks flying. Why are, we’re two months in. We’re young people. Why are we waiting a couple months on this?

[00:50:15] CALLER: I think it’s a great question and very valid. It was definitely the latter of those two.

[00:50:21] CHRIS: So he’s sitting there going, I am charming this person and she likes me. And we are modern folks with a modern perspective on dating. What do we got to do to really express our love physically?

[00:50:33] CALLER: Yes, I think so. I know that’s how I felt at least. It just isn’t something that I feel doesn’t mean that I’m not, like, average mid-20’s woman. Like he’s a very attractive man. I really wanted this to go down.

[00:50:52] CHRIS: You got this chemistry flying. And so let’s get, let’s get it cooking  you’re looking for a way to make it happen. So. So he is. Is he? Does he have a moment where he goes? Oh, kay. Is there any sense of him that’s like, OK. I’m relieved to know that there is an issue that’s not rooted in in my behavior or something. Is he got sitting or going, OK? At least it’s not that I smell bad or something like that.

[00:51:15] CALLER: [laugh] I think that I can hear him vocally say that probably just that he was thankful. [indiscernible] It’s good. It’s fine. We work with this.

[00:51:26] CHRIS: So then, he said that dream thing you feel cared for, you feel protected, you don’t feel judged. And then he takes a deep breath, puts in some research, and then eventually comes back and says, you know what, I’m comfortable with this, I read about this. Because I’ll also say to some, some of the STIs that I think are the ones we’re, like most warned about as kids, especially, you know, like me, growing up Catholic and the sort of puritanical, like, it’s “sex can lead to so many bad things”. And then I know there’s certain STIs, and I want to be very respectful, you, you have very clearly been careful in not naming the particulars STI.  And I absolutely want to respect that. I do know that there’s a few of the ones that I think are are particularly demonized or even like you said, particularly like fodder to be made fun of that, when you read in-depth on them, they’re actually not. They don’t dominate your life on a 24/7 basis in the way that we’re maybe taught when we’re young, when it’s sort of used to just scare us from getting into the backseat with someone else in high school. And people are stigmatized for some words like, well, that might only affect you literally four or five days a year, for some of the most stigmatized ones. And, but then you have to kind of live under this cloud the other 300 some odd days a year.

[00:52:46] CALLER: Yes. You are a hundred percent right. And that is the exact situation that I am in. And like I said before, I don’t show symptoms of my STI. The only reason why I would have known that I had it was because of my rape kit that I took after the fact.

[00:53:06] CHRIS: Son, this son of a bitch. This guy in partic –.  I think that people who drop roofies and drinks. We talked about them having a particular place in hell. And I think that this guy in particular is gonna be escorted directly to the VIP section of that section of Hell. There’s like a velvet rope cordoning off one particular corner of punishment that I hope, yeah, I hope they bring him right in there. And the demons dunk his head directly into a pit of lava over and over again for eternity. That’s what I hope happens.

[00:53:39] CALLER: Please. Yes. I would love that. That would be amazing.

[00:53:43] CHRIS: Wow. I’ll tell you, on my end, here’s the thing about me I’ve never said in my whole time on the show is I have not dealt with what you’ve dealt with. Certainly as far as it all goes. But even with your condition, I’ll tell ya on my end, ever since I was a kid, a couple times a year I’ll get cold sores and they’re visible. And when I was a kid, I also looked back and it was I was raised in the 80s and 90s when we literally did not drink water. So we were dehydrated. Literally I only drank Hawaiian Punch and Yoo Hoo for the bulk of my childhood, this is true. It was all just sugary drinks and being dehydrated would make the cold sores come out. Now that I’m an adult, I stay hydrated. You barely have to deal with it. And the medicines are better now. But I had I’ve had that conversation, too, where people say to me like, oh, you have herpes. And I’m like, well, a type of it, a type of it. Yeah. I’m not going to deny that. It’s not the, it’s not the type that lives in, you know, in the sexual areas of my body, but I’ve certainly dealt with people who immediately look at me cross-eyed and go, OK, I have to be very careful around you and it’s like a, yeah, to a degree, I guess it as long as, I mean, if we are reasonably smart, even to just a casual degree, like you don’t even have to be very vigilant to avoid this and it’s not a non-issue. So I know on my end I’ve dealt with it at that level.

[00:55:07] CALLER: Yeah, and that’s honestly how the majority of the population deals with it and I think it’s some like crazy shit just like that, like one in five people have like, some form of herpes, like there’s HSV 1 and HSV 2. HSV 1 is like the cold sores. And the majority of the population has HSV 1.

[00:55:29] CHRIS: Yeah.

55:31 CALLER: You could have gotten it when you were like a small child. Like it’s not crazy. It’s just a cold sore. And it will go away.

[00:55:38] CHRIS: Yeah. And it’s just kind of an annoying, depressing thing. One part of me is like I’m gonna have everyone on the subway glancing at this for the next week, til this heals up.

55:49 CALLER: Thank God.

[00:55:50] CHRIS: And then that’s I think that’s HSV 1. And then HSV 2 is actually, my understanding, an extraordinarily similar thing as far as how it erupts and sort of comes and goes. It’s just very unfortunately happens in an area that’s a little bit even more stressful to have to deal with and explain.

[00:56:11] CALLER: Yup. A hundred percent.

56:12 CHRIS: Oh, my God. That’s a bad situation, but I’m glad you got a good partner. My understanding is, and correct me if I’m wrong, because the last thing I want to do is spread medical misinformation on here. But my understanding is that if someone is not having an active outbreak, that you’re pretty safe as far as spreading it, that as long as you’re very vigilant and honest with yourself and you’re not feeling any itching and you’re not see any sores, like you can have a pretty, what most people would say would be a normal sexual life. And that one of the other concerns is that if you ever get pregnant, you have to be really careful about letting your doctors know if you have an outbreak while you’re pregnant, especially if you’re delivering. True or false.

[00:56:53] CALLER: Mostly true.

56:55 CHRIS: Mostly true.

56:56 CALLER: Mostly true. For me, if I never plan on having children. So for me, that’s like not a problem. But you can spread it if you don’t have an outbreak, but it’s very unlikely. So you still have to just using other forms of protection, but it is still possible. There are daily medications you can take that will reduce your risk even more. It’s just like a one a day pill that’s generally for people that have a lot of outbreaks, which would probably be characterized as four or five. So some people are as some people aren’t, it just depends on what your doctor’s recommendation is. But it is mostly true and, honestly, you can live a very, very normal life with it.

[00:57:47] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:57:47] CALLER: You just need to have people that are empathetic, such as yourself and a current partner that understands that it’s just like having acne on your face. Like, I would never be like, oh, you have a zit, go away. Well, like, actually, can I pop that, please?

[00:58:05] CHRIS: I know for me, when you get an act, when you get acting jobs that you’re on long term, they will give you forms to fill out. And one of the forms is, do you have any forms of HSV? So I always have to say, yep, I get cold sores. And then what they will do is they will give me a prescription for a Valtrax for the duration. Like when I, when I did that my TV show in 2010, the old sitcom, they put me on Valtrax the whole time. They’re like, because we can’t have the character having a cold sore one day and not having it the next. And you’re the lead of the show so you’re gonna be taking the pills every day. It’s not a big deal. Who cares? Take a lot of pills. You know I’m not ashamed. Yeah. I keep a little tube of the Acyclovir cream, I think it’s called in my medicine cabinet. And if I ever feel a little tingle, put it on there.

It’s not even an issue and doesn’t even show up. Yes, it’s where we’re at. So this guy. Tell me about this guy. Let me ask you a weird question. Let me ask you a weird question. When, when you deal with a horrible situation and this situation leaves a legacy that’s a fucking headache and a socially stigmatized thing that now you’re going to have to explain for the rest of your goddamn life and you’re sitting here going, Why the fuck did this happen to me? And then you meet a guy and you’re like, this guy’s worth it. I’m going to take a chance on this guy. And then the guy reacts like a kind, compassionate human being. And you go, this is a dream. Does this make you like the guy even more?

[00:59:31] CALLER: Oh, yeah, 100 percent. But at the same time, I always knew that was who he was. Even though we hadn’t known each other for that long, just by the way, he was already conducting himself and the way he interacted with my friend. It was more my own personal fear about what I’d heard in the media about what this meant as far as a stigma goes, that was making me think, oh, he’s going run. He’s got to run away, so I kind of always knew he was this amazing man, and I just unfortunately have the classic problem of overthinking and letting fear drive my emotions sometimes. So that’s kind of where that was all coming from. But he’s just, I can’t say enough about how much I love this person and how incredible they are.

[01:00:29] CHRIS: That’s awesome. I like. I like your partner. I’m gonna go ahead and say, based on the very few facts, I know I like your partner. It sounds like he made you feel confident and, and lovable and deserving of love and, I think that’s awesome. I think it’s awesome. Also, I’m going to look it back around. I would have to imagine, you tell me. Thinking about having a friend who we talked about before who sort of disappeared. It’s all, there’s a lot of dots I’m connecting now. ‘Cause

I would have to imagine you’re in a stretch of life where your whole romantic life is now defined by fear that people might ghost on you and then you have a very close friend ghost on you. And I would have to imagine that must have been an extraordinarily confusing thing.

[01:01:18] CALLER: Oh, yeah. It was so confusing, especially since she was one of my main supporters when I was going through this whole situation. She was always my cheerleader, like it doesn’t matter, you’re going to be OK. All of that. So to have her ghost, it’s like god damnit, I’m not even friends with her.

[01:01:38] CHRIS: Well, have you ever thought about this? And I do not mean to laugh, but, you know, sometimes, sometimes the dark part of my brain, it’s like, what else can you do? But it’s like as far as a set of best friends. Holy shit, what a bad couple, stretch, a months of life like, oh, sorry, I would have loved to have been there for you. And when you had an STI handed to you by a predator. But unfortunately, I was going through a stretch where I was held in the iron grasp of an emotionally manipulative, dominant in my life, like what a bad, the both of you, the both as far as two best friends go. Could you have two prob, two problems of such severity and specificity and unpredictability erupt at the same exact time that also render you both unable to help the other. That is holy shit. As far as a friend pairing.

1:02:32 CALLER: Yeah, it’s quite a pair.

1:02:33 CHRIS: That is a one-two punch that I doubt any other set of friends have had to deal with at the same time. Oh my God.

[01:02:42] CALLER: Right? I know.

[01:02:43] CHRIS: Well, I tell you what. I’m. You had said you were going to talk about something that’s stigmatized. I didn’t know it was coming. And you did. And I’m really glad you did, because I think you’re right. And it does make me realize that it’s, it’s, it’s one of the lingering things from that sort of like 1950s puritanical culture, right? Like it’s one of those last lingering things of like sex shaming and,` and making don’t go around and be loose or else you’ll have to walk around with the scarlet letter on your skin for it. Right? Like it’s one of those last lingering things. And it really does make me think I wonder I wonder how kids are taught in school today, because all the discussions we had of it in school were about. I look back and feel like STI’s were brought up as sort of like a fear mongering thing to discourage sexuality and sexual expression. I’d like to think that maybe we’re living in times where there’s a pressure release on kids, where sexual expression is something talked about more honestly and that the potential effects of it are talked about as what they are, which is, you know, medical situations that can be avoided. And also, if they are not avoided, that can be dealt with.

[01:03:53] CALLER: 100 percent. I really hope that’s where it’s going to. I know that when I was in school, that we didn’t even talk about it. So I hope that leaps and bounds are being made in this situation. Obviously have no plans to go back to elementary school, but I would like to think in my brain that people are talking about our conversation about it.

[01:04:18] CHRIS: Health class was weird. I remember in junior high I have a distinct memory of the teacher telling us that you could get pregnant via oral sex, via blowjobs, pardon my French to anybody listening who doesn’t want to go on there. Sorry, Sally, in particular. I’m sure Sally does not want me to hear me use the word blowjob too often, but I remember being told that and I remember like all I could do was laugh because it’s like they just didn’t want. They just didn’t want to catch like horny 13 year olds in the coat closet or the broom closet going down on each other. But you don’t just lie. You don’t just lie and say oh yeah, you can get pregnant from that.

[01:04:59] CALLER: Yes. It’s crazy what they’ll say to, like, foster a fear culture.

1:05:06 CHRIS: Fear culture, no good. I don’t like fear culture. I,I’ve given it, it affects me too much. I don’t like it.

[01:05:12] CALLER: Yes. Same. I too often live on the intersection of anxiety street and fear corner. Don’t love it.

[01:05:23] CHRIS: Anxiety Street and Fear Corner. I would say that’s like the grown up Sesame Street for people like you and I.

[01:05:28] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:05:29] CHRIS: Can you tell me how to get to Anxiety Street? Yeah. Make a left at Fear Corner. And if if you need a shortcut, you can cut through self-consciousness Alley.

[01:05:42] CALLER: Real popular.

[01:05:45] CHRIS: Well, what happened to you is unthinkable. And I hate that it happened to you and the fact that you can talk about it is really remarkable. But I do think I really I have to say, I really love that you approach it from the perspective of, you know, there was this there is this result of this situation that stigmatize and I want to get it on record because it shouldn’t be. I think that’s cool. I think that’s cool. And there’s definitely going to be other people listening who I bet have had their own versions of it, who are sitting there going, Hell yeah, thank you. Thank you, somebody for standing up and saying it’s not shameful to get sick in this way.

[01:06:25] CALLER: And I I thank you for having this open conversation with me about it, because there’s a person online, I remember looking at a bunch of her stuff when I was trying to craft how I was going to have this conversation with my partner. And she was so open about it. And she basically is like a blogger who is like HSV positive. But like in a positive way. And I wish I could remember her name right now, but she just as soon as I read her stuff, was like Hell Yes, lady. Like, why do we have to live in this, like shame shadow, which are only on self-consciousness alley, about what cards you were dealt. Like, it doesn’t make us any less of a human. It doesn’t alter our brain function in any way. It’s like a little annoying, like, maybe twice a year and you can move on with your life. If you have good people around the you, it shouldn’t affect you at all.

[01:07:30] CHRIS: Yeah. I’m with you. And I think. I want to be clear, too. Obviously, your situation is one where you were handed this, absolutely through none of, no choices that you made, and it’s it’s completely inexcusable. But even if somebody is out there and they have a stretch where they decide that they want to sleep around, even that I feel like it’s not something to be judged. It’s still not some thought at all that nobody should have a finger wagged at them. Nobody should have an I-told-you-so just because they’re a sexual person who wants to explore their sexuality. That needs to go away. That yes, that needs to be done. This idea that people especially I would also have to imagine is that especially the sense I get is that especially young ladies, it’s like, see, that’s what you get. And that’s like this old school mentality. That shit needs to die. That needs to go away. People were allowed to go out there and have their fun and explore themselves and see what happens and not feel shame about it. I think that that’s, just really simple human need and we should meet it with simple human compassion.

[01:08:44] CALLER: That’s perfectly said. I totally agree.

[01:08:48] CHRIS: Well, listen, we’ve let this one go a little long because we had this early precursor to the call that was exploring, hearing about yourself on the show. I,

I think this one had a good message and to take such a dark situation and spread a positive message. I’m very happy to help facilitate that. Any closing words in any way?

[01:09:13] CALLER: Want to say to anyone that might be dealing with something similar. Just stay strong, hold your head up and they’re going to be just fine.

[01:09:24] CHRIS: You’re not broken.

[01:09:26] CALLER: You’re not broken.

[01:09:32] CHRIS: [transition music] Caller, thank you so much for everything. For attempting to destigmatize something that’s worth destigmatizing, for being so open and honest, especially about the hardest parts your story and for letting me know what it’s like yourself mentioned on the show, I think that’ll keep me on my toes and remind me some of the responsibility of hosting a show as weird as this one can sometimes get. Thank you for everything and I wish you nothing but the best  moving forward. Thank you to Jared O’Connell and Harry Nelson in the booth. Thank you to Justin Lindell for all the help in my life and to ShellShag for all the music at Beautiful/Anonymous. Please support ShellShag, they are best. Wanna know about me? Chrisgeth.com that’s where you can get all my tour dates, all the stuff like that. Anyway, if you like this show, go to Apple Podcasts, rate and would you subscribe? It really helps when you do. See you next time.

1:10:22 THEME MUSIC

[NEXT EPISODE PREVIEW]

[01:10:32] CHRIS: Next time on Beautiful Anonymous. A guy who doesn’t particularly love my work or talking to people participates in my talk-based podcast.

[01:10:42] CHRIS: [music transition] You genuinely appreciate the impulses I have and the risks I take, but that the end product is something that makes that you have said, I believe the quote. It makes me cringe. And it’s confusing for people. It’s confusing for people. It is and I get it.

[01:10:58] CALLER: You know, at the end of Scrooge when Bill Murray, he’s like, you get the car and you get a car, whatever it was I don’t remember what he said.

You know, if at the end of that, nobody cared and there wasn’t Christmas music, it  was just this like a beautiful person who had this emotional change if you wanted to share with everyone, but they weren’t interested.I feel like that would make me feel squirrelly.

1:11:25 CHRIS: Yeah, squirrelly. You keep using the words squirrelly to describe the effect I have on you.

[01:11:31] CHRIS: That’s next time on Beautiful Anonymous.