EP. 71 — Judaism and LGBTQ+ Activism with Adam Eli

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. I hope you’re well. There’s so much chaos, I don’t know how you would be. I’m I’m I’m alright. It’s just it’s a lot, isn’t it? It’s a lot. It’s a lot. The Internet is a lot. The news is a lot. We we somehow persist. We are legends. Our generation. All the generations involved in this shit show are legends. Speaking of legends, my guests today, I love this person so much. I met him while I was shooting my little YouTube show a year and a half ago. And he is a young, queer Jewish activist who came across my radar because their work is so exceptional. His name is Adam Eli and he’s so, so special and has such a fresh take on so many different subjects and is someone that I really look up to when it comes to the way that he engages with people and engages in certain issues. And he’s a very respected voice online and came on to teach me and us many things. One of the things we discuss, which I love so much on this podcast, is how Adam has taken the teachings of Judaism and applied them to how we can in the same way that Jewish people show up for each other. The LGBTQ plus community can do the same. And part of why that is so special is that, you know, it’s no secret that religion and LGBTQ plus issues haven’t always been seen as simpatico. You know, they haven’t always been seen as a peaceful coexistence. And so to watch someone find such immense peace with it to the point where they actually extract their most beautiful lessons from their religion and use it to further find the glory, the love and the support among their sexuality and the LGBTQ plus community at large. I just think it’s so fresh and so special and and the way that Adam breaks it down is just so interesting and and loving about both existences and and his rocky journey with both existences and and what it took to come to peace with both and and how he plans on using that to show up for so many other communities, very passionate about the trans community, in particular black trans women and the ways in which, you know, he shows so much concern over how he will get highlighted. He will get platformed when he talks about issues regarding even the black trans community. But they are demonized for talking about their own suffering. So he’s very aware of his privilege, very aware of his need to continue to shine a light on subjects because he is still a sis white, non disabled person. It’s just his he’s got a very loving and self-aware heart and mind. We discuss how to use anger to combat diet culture. That’s another thing that Adam is big about, talking about online and very open in his discussion around body image, especially in the gay community and his ongoing journey with learning how to love himself, learn it, love his body and how to accept other people’s love and appreciation of his body. And and he’s just so open and loving in this episode here we talk about quite a lot of serious issues. But he is really a very happy and doting and peaceful human being. But we really get into it in this episode. And I’m so glad I was able to have these conversations with someone that I admire and trust and respect so much. And so I think you will love him to his fucking fabulous and so bloody smart. And I wish I could be more like him. And so this is the excellent Adam Eli. Enjoy. I have one of my favorite new friends of mine thirties on this podcast today here, someone I admire so much and I’ve learned so much from in such a short space of time. I’m talking about Adam Eli. Welcome to I Weigh Adam. [00:04:31][271.2]

Adam: [00:04:31] Thank you so, so, so much for having me. It’s funny that you say welcome to I Weigh because I feel like I’ve been a part of I Weigh for so long. You know, this is just like a new avenue of it. [00:04:44][12.5]

Jameela: [00:04:44] Yeah, well, the podcast is a new avenue, but you are a new avenue of I Weigh. I feel like you have become someone that we almost look towards as an ambassador and someone who who we you know, we look to our community for guidance because we certainly don’t profess to have all of the answers to everything. And you are definitely someone whose name comes up all the time. And when when we’re trying to figure out the most sensitive or the most fair or the kindest or most empathetic way people like yourself and Alok and, Munroe Bergdorf like you are some of the people that we most look to for guidance because of the way that you conduct yourself online. I have a million things I want to ask you, and I want to start off by talking about the one of the reasons that we first met, which is because you wrote this brilliant book called The Nuclear Conscience, and I wanted to talk to you about it. Adam is holding it up now, and I would love for you to explain this incredibly important piece of writing to the world. [00:05:41][57.0]

Adam: [00:05:42] Thank you so much. You’re one of the first people that I got to talk to the book about in real life. I gave you one of our first galley copies, which is [00:05:48][5.2]

Jameela: [00:05:48] thank you very much. [00:05:48][0.5]

Adam: [00:05:49] Like Free Readers Copy. And basically the book has a thesis statement, which is that queer people anywhere are responsible for queer people everywhere. And the book goes about proving that thesis statement or talking about that thesis by comparing by taking Jewish ideals and applying them to the queer community. So I talk a bit about my personal story growing up Jewish and queer in a world where I was only surrounded by Judaism and no queerness and what I learned from my Jewish heritage and family and how I’m trying to apply those ideas to the queer community. [00:06:23][33.9]

Jameela: [00:06:24] And what is so refreshing about this is that, you know, and I’ve grown up in a South Asian community, I still don’t have any relatives. I’m now the only member of my entire lineage, I believe, who is publicly out. So I’ve grown up with none of that. And it’s so often that religion in South Asia is tied to homophobia and it’s so often that you hear stories of religion being the antithesis or most of LGBTQ plus stories and being, you know, that they are mutually exclusive. And so I think one of the things I was so drawn to with your book is the fact that it was honestly one of the first times I’ve ever seen religion used as a way and the policies of religion and the ideals of religion being used to actually unite religion and LGBTQ. Plus, I think that’s so special that you’ve you found a way to bond them together. [00:07:15][50.8]

Adam: [00:07:16] Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And that makes you feel really seen, because something that I was saying and I’ve been saying is that when we hear stories about fairness and religion, a lot of the stories we hear are, you know, I grew up in a religious community and I’m out as queer and there was a lot of queer phobia around me and I was silenced and assaulted and it was really hard. And that story is really valid and important. And it’s a part of my story. However, it’s not the story that I want to tell at this moment, because it’s a story I do think is really out there a lot. The story I want to tell us how I firmly believe that my Jewish ideals and background make me a stronger and better queer activist and wholer queer person. [00:08:01][44.6]

Jameela: [00:08:02] So explain how, please. [00:08:04][1.6]

Adam: [00:08:05] Sure. So there are a few tenants that I talk about in the book, but the most important one is this idea. Again, back to the thesis of queer people anywhere are responsible for queer people everywhere. And so I actually took a quote from the town, which is a piece of ancient Jewish scripture, like the Bible, but another piece of Jewish scripture. And in it it says kol yisreal arevim zeh bazeh, which means all of the all Jewish people are responsible for other Jewish people. And so I just took that sentence and made it a little gayer. And I like growing up. We were taught that if another Jewish person is in trouble, it is your obligation to show up for that person. And, you know, we’re talking like really, really, really young, like at your bar mitzvah. Like who what charity are you giving part of your gifts to to help Jews all over the world? The Jews are in crisis here. What are we doing? [00:08:59][54.3]

Jameela: [00:09:00] I was going to say that this doesn’t just apply to Jewish people, that, you know, Jewish people in your city or your country, even this is Jewish people all over the world. Whatever they’re going through, everyone has to speak up to protect them. [00:09:11][11.0]

Adam: [00:09:11] So all of this came to a head after the shooting that took place in Pittsburgh at the synagogue. And I saw sitting at home, I watched as the entire Jewish community from all over the world came together that they were statement issued before Shabbat had even ended because it took place Saturday morning. All enough money was raised that all the funeral costs were covered. People were flocking to Pittsburgh. They didn’t know what to do, bringing food and shelter, etc. Every single Jewish celebrity or even celebrity adjacent person had spoken out about it. And it was pretty amazing. And the message was, you mess with one Jew, you mess with us all. And then a few weeks later, I there was an announcement that there was another queer purge that took place in Chechnya, where the Chechen government is actively rounding up and killing queer people. And in that three month ban, there was a continuation of the genocide against black trans women. And so I sat there watching these two crises unfolding in the gay community with there being no unified response whatsoever and this crisis in the Jewish community with this huge show of power and force and. I think that if queer people can adopt the mindset that we have an obligation to show up for each other simply because we’re queer, the world will become a better place for everyone. And the idea behind that is that. I cannot relate to an injury that I cannot understand the pain that an intersex goes right, that is a different experience than mine. However, we both grew up queer in a non queer in a non queer world. And I think that that basis of understanding is enough for us to show up for each other. [00:10:58][106.7]

Jameela: [00:10:59] Yeah, and you and I have spoken about this before and spoken about how one of the things that you really prioritize is similarly to within Judaism, I know that all of my Jewish friends take immense pride in being a part of Judaism and they feel chosen and they feel special and it is imparted upon them, so much so by their families and by their lineage. What a special thing this is to be a part of. It’s such a ginormous family and inconceivably large family to be a part of, and queer people are so rarely allowed to feel that way. And in your book, you go out of your way to make sure that those gaps are filled, that you grew up knowing of all these great Jewish writers and performers and and and artists. And yet you didn’t really have those figures to look up to within the queer community. And so in your book, you went out of your way to find queer people who had done extraordinary things and you highlight them and their achievements in order to make sure that young people know their history and know that they are part of something extraordinary. [00:12:00][60.9]

Adam: [00:12:01] Exactly. And absolutely. And thank you for picking up on that and bringing it up, because when you’re a little kid and your Jewish, like I was, you know, you’re part of something greater than yourself, because every week you go to synagogue and you see a bunch of other Jewish people and you go to school and you see or I went to a Jewish school. So if you go to a Jewish school, you see a bunch of other Jewish people and you’re learning about your history. When you’re queer, you’re told or the default feeling is that you’re all alone and that you’re the only person like you when really it’s the opposite. And the world is filled with queer people and queer history and legacy that all of us can be proud of and be a part of. [00:12:39][38.0]

Jameela: [00:12:41] And can I ask because, you know, we haven’t really spoken about the book since it first came out. That was a year and a half ago. Has there been any pushback from the Jewish community for the fact that you’ve taken their ideology and kind of applied it to to queer activism? [00:12:55][14.4]

Adam: [00:12:57] There’s not any pushback from the Jewish community at all. There’s been some pushback from the queer community. It’s always toughest when you get pushback from your own community, it was just a little bit of pushback. And basically the criticism was that the book wasn’t in the book, wasn’t detailed enough, that it didn’t it sort of made sweeping generalizations and that it didn’t really dig into the idea that maybe in order to be. I’m trying to think about how to phrase it. Some of the criticism was that because I’m arguing that queer people should come together and queer people should show up for each other across racial, religious identity, gender and sexuality lines, and some people were arguing that that’s not necessarily true and that there are a billion different ways to be queer. And of course, I feel like there are a million different ways to be to be queer, but yeah, to be criticism within the community. Not big. A small criticism I got from working in the book was too general and not detail oriented and therefore a racist nuances. And I think that’s a reasonable critique. [00:14:02][65.4]

Jameela: [00:14:02] But it’s also a fucking tiny book. Just be like, yeah, if anyone’s looking at this book, owns this book, it is. It is deliberately, in my opinion. I mean, a) that was part of I think, you know, the series that you were in. But also these are small books that are that the whole series is so brilliant and yours in particular is able to, in such a short space of time, pack such a punch and make such an impact that Adam, I haven’t been able to get out of my fucking head since I met you. [00:14:30][27.4]

Adam: [00:14:31] Thank you. So I really can’t tell you how much that makes me. And yeah, like those criticisms failed to mention that it was an eight thousand word book. And on the back, it says for 12 to 18 year olds. And so when we were [00:14:44][13.7]

Jameela: [00:14:45] known for that long attention spans. [00:14:46][1.4]

Adam: [00:14:47] Exactly. And so when I was writing the book, they were saying like right to a 12 year old to write to a 13 year old. And in the book reviews, the other book reviews I got, they said that everything was very clear and concise and easily easy to understand. And I’m really proud of that. [00:15:04][16.5]

Jameela: [00:15:04] Yeah. So, OK, so so this is where you stand now as as a Jewish activist, as a queer activist very much so occupying both spaces at the same time. But focusing more on your queer activism. It was the Pulse nightclub shooting that really kind of, I guess, invigorated you to get more active in your space. So will you talk about that? Because I think I’d read that you until then felt as though things had really progressed for queer people. And they had you know, we had we have people, queer people on television and and out more than ever before. And and it did feel like a less violent time. And I feel like that was a rude awakening as to how far we still have to go, right? [00:15:51][46.4]

Adam: [00:15:52] Definitely. You’re so lovely. Thank you so much for doing all this research. And sometimes people are just like, oh, they can social media be used as activism and just like, say this. So thank you for that. And yes, definitely. So I came out I left high school and immediately came out in 2009 and I sort of like six months too late. There was this like huge. I’m going to write a paper about it one day, but there was this huge cultural shift in 2009 where it became it went from nobody talked about anything to it became not OK to not be pro-gay rights as I guess they were calling it then. So we’re talking like Ellen, Glee, Lady Gaga, every pop star that had, you know, like a like be yourself, be true to yourself. And then it all just happened like and since from twenty nine until twenty sixteen, I just sort of watched and sat there ignorantly. Ignorance is bliss as gay rights continue to progress and things just got better and better and better until this huge literal explosion happened. And it was the first time I ever saw a direct attack on my community. And the reason why it was the first time is because of all the hard work that all that the activists before me had done. I was able to have those few years, you know, thinking things were OK, one because of my white privilege. And two because where I was living and three because everyone else had worked so hard. [00:17:23][91.0]

Jameela: [00:17:24] I was also going to say that it’s no surprise to me that that what happened, that tragedy that night was a direct response to all of the progress. It’s always what happens. It’s always the backlash to the progress that’s being made, that progress that we were seeing in mainstream culture and the work that even a show is frivolous and ridiculous as Will and Grace have made, even though I know it still has some problematic tropes, there was definite that there was definite ground being gained by the queer community. And I feel as though that was around the time that that that started to shift in a really problematic and scary way again. [00:18:02][38.1]

Adam: [00:18:03] Absolutely. That’s a really keen observation. I feel the same way. Ruth Bader Ginsburg says that the symbol of America Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s husband says that the symbol of America is not the volcano, but rather the pendulum, because human rights is not human rights and therefore queer rights are not a single line trajectory. They go back and forth and we can’t control how the pendulum swings. We can only control how we react to it, so like let’s say just for conversation’s sake, let’s say we take Stonewall and the 70s and sexual liberation, right. And then that is one end of the pendulum. And then we go to the AIDS crisis. Right. The pendulum swings all the way back to Bush and Reagan and the AIDS crisis. And then it swings back again, to this golden era of gay rights, Obama, Lady Gaga, whatever you want to call it, and then Trump and polls happening within six months of each other. Pendulum swings back again. And so for me, I think I always say that the reason I think that I was able to establish a platform was because many people in our generation had a wake up call when Trump was elected. I just so happen to have had that wake up call literally six months before in June. So when the Pulse massacre happened and I had that sort of wake up moment. I immediately started working with a group called Gays Against Guns, which was founded in response to that, and all the members of Gays Against Guns were older than me. They were AIDS activists and gay marriage activists. And so I started to do the social media. And it was such a lovely environment because anything anything I did once I went live on Facebook and Instagram, the whole thing like that, anything I did, they just said, you’re amazing. You’re brilliant. And it was just such a warm and welcoming environment. And so by the time Trump was elected, I had already had six months of practice and using social media as an organizing tool. And therefore, I think that my voice was able to cut through that chaos in that moment. [00:20:12][129.3]

Jameela: [00:20:13] And you put out onto your social media that if anyone was witnessing these heinous crimes against the LGBTQ community and they didn’t want to be alone, they didn’t feel safe on their own, they could come meet you within an hour of posting within an hour’s notice. Thirty five people. Forty people turned up. Is that right? [00:20:32][18.7]

Adam: [00:20:33] Yeah, exactly. Exactly my story. So basically, I didn’t I was working I was working as a real estate agent at the time, different lifetime ago, and I didn’t know what to do. So I just kept posting and posting and posting as because remember, you wake up. It’s that Sunday, it was Saturday night, you wake up on Sunday morning as I’m showering and getting ready to leave, I hear there was a shooting at a gay club and like 10 people have died. And then I’m out on the street and I checked my phone and it’s twenty one and then comes out that it was a Latino night and then it’s thirty five and then by midday it’s forty nine. So the day just sort of crumbled around you and I didn’t know what to do so I just kept on posting and posting and then because I was posting people in turn were saying like what do we do, what do we do now? And I was like, fuck if I know. Like I don’t know. And so when I decided to do was there was a memorial planned. And so I said, if you are sad and if you are sad and upset and you don’t know what to do, if you don’t want to be alone, you can meet me at Two Boots Pizza, which is three blocks from Stonewall, and we can all go together. And this was before I had any type of social media following or organizing experience. And thirty five people showed up and it was only up for an hour. And in that moment I was like, oh wow. Social media can be used as a tool to make things happen in real life. And then I took that application and all these amazing folks, the Gays Against Guns, all this experience or organizing protests and meetings. And I was using social media to reflect them, to give people hope and also to bring people to them. [00:22:13][100.8]

Jameela: [00:22:15] And so is that when you started voices for [00:22:18][3.3]

Adam: [00:22:19] so so what happened was first it with Gays Against Guns. And then and then that was my experience using social media as an activism tool. And then Trump was elected and there was just so it was one of his tactics or the administration’s tactics was to bombard us with things out of right field so that they could sort of judges and do things to confuse us and upset us. So I’m sure you remember that those first three months were crazy. It was the the Muslim ban, the attack on abortion, that the attack on trans bathroom bills. And then it was the attack on trans military. It was just totally endless. And so it was Gays Against Guns and I was doing a lot of organizing around that. And then it came to pass that Masha Gessen broke the story in The New Yorker about what was happening to queer people in Chechnya. And my great Chechnya is a puppet state of Russia. Putin controls Chechnya and lets the guy who runs it do whatever he wants so long as he does what he wants. And my family comes from Russia, my Jewish family comes from Russia. And they fled Russia because of the pogroms, which was state sanctioned violence against Jewish people. And this is the same thing. This was and is the same thing. But for poor people, state sanctioned violence by basically the same government and just felt obvious like I needed to do something, and so there was all of this outcry based on Masha’s brilliant article, but no calls to action. I tried everything like every link that was put up, like every HRC link you know Eyes On Chechnya I would try to follow. And it just ended up in a petition and it was like people are dying, being rounded up in the streets. I don’t think the petition is going to handle that. So. I made the decision that after pride, I was this was going to be my thing and what I did was I approached a group of helpers to LGBT, which are the Russian and former Soviet Union queers who fled the former Soviet Union Russia and came here. And I said, what’s up like what like what can we actually do? They said we need to raise money and awareness and so we organized together a huge march and then that march. [00:24:37][137.6]

Jameela: [00:24:38] I remember you telling me about this, that you said that you are a group of you were part of a group of sort of relatively well known insta-gays. [00:24:46][7.4]

Adam: [00:24:47] Yes, exactly. [00:24:47][0.7]

Jameela: [00:24:49] Which is the sort of terminology that I really love. I love the instagays. [00:24:54][5.5]

Adam: [00:24:56] Well, it was true because I was looking around at my friend group and I was saying all of these people that are sitting at this table or my apartment where we’re hanging out are privileged in that they’re white cis gay men that are living in New York City. But then on top of that, they’re also a bunch of people that have follower’s media contacts, the ability to raise money or work in nightlife have, you know, friends with far reaching influence, et cetera. So there was this layer of privilege on top of your run of the mill white gay male privilege, and I felt like with all the resources sitting here in New York in this place in New York City where I was sitting we would really be able to do something, and that’s how that began. [00:25:41][44.8]

Jameela: [00:25:42] And now you have expanded that to be something that exists globally, you have chapters in other countries and and so you’re able to be far more connected and have people on the ground in a multitude of locations, which is exactly what you want, because as someone who’s ideal is to make sure that the queer people stand for all queer people everywhere. Now, you actually have more access than you’ve ever had before because of this wonderful thing that you’ve built. So congratulations. That’s so cool. [00:26:09][26.8]

Adam: [00:26:11] Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It ended up getting a little bit complicated. It didn’t it didn’t work in New York, in New York we’re on, I guess, a permanent hiatus. However, it really is working in London and Berlin and something that they’re doing in Berlin and London. I can’t basically when someone leaves Chechnya or flees Chechnya. The trouble is not over because people from their family will seek out to find them and commit other murders. And so when someone flees Chechnya, they’re still in hiding. And so it’s really important that we don’t talk in too much detail about it. Basically, someone, a queer person, had fled Chechnya to a country and then their family figured out their family or community or whoever figured out where they were and then came after them in that country. And now they have moved to a different country with the direct help of Voices For Berlin. So we’re actively raising money for this one person who is currently living in a queer apartment, which was set up by Voices Berlin members. And we’re we’ve named this person Nick. So it’s voices for Nick. And I’ll make sure to send you all the information about that. [00:27:24][73.4]

Jameela: [00:27:24] I would love that. I would love to support this work. That’s so that’s so incredible. That’s so amazing that this is what you have been able to be a part of building. I mean, this it does it does it feel rewarding or is it just terrifying as to how immense the and I only ask you this because a lot of people ask me if I’m proud of what I Weigh has achieved, because we’ve helped a lot of people with mental health, in particular eating disorders. But I think we’ve spanned across plenty of things. But definitely I, I rarely allow myself to feel pride, even though we’ve achieved a fair bit in a short period of time because it feels so intimidating. How much more there is to do. Do you ever wrestle with that? [00:28:05][41.0]

Adam: [00:28:06] Yeah, I think that the really honest answer to that question is that when I started doing queer organizing stuff, it literally did not occur to me that I would be receiving criticism from the queer community. I just thought. I didn’t see anyone else organizing it with direct action, except for except for some of the immigration groups, I didn’t see any organizing like that. And I just thought that people would either be happy and join or at least leave us alone. And so I was not prepared for the type of criticism that I got from the queer community and that was really hard, and it it definitely colors how I feel about everything. That has happened and is happening. [00:28:55][48.6]

Jameela: [00:28:55] Can you talk to me about that? Do you want to talk about it or do you want to just move on? [00:28:58][2.6]

Adam: [00:28:59] No, it’s OK. I think we can talk about it. A lot of what I was doing, you know, because as I was doing that type of work, it was also raising my profile because I was using Instagram as a way of doing that. And that definitely happened. And I definitely, you know, have an ego and enjoy the spotlight. But also I was using the tools that were at my disposal. And so it became complicated and difficult. And I had to rejigger and find a new way to do that. So I don’t I don’t know. It’s hard to not you know, you get like a million amazing reviews and then you get one bad book review, and that’s the one that sticks in your head. [00:29:39][40.3]

Jameela: [00:29:40] I know. I know. Can I can I offer you some unsolicited advice? [00:29:43][3.5]

Adam: [00:29:44] Please. Please! [00:29:45][0.8]

Jameela: [00:29:47] OK. I receive a fairly extraordinary amount. [00:29:52][5.0]

Adam: [00:29:52] Yes. [00:29:52][0.0]

Jameela: [00:29:53] Pushback over everything like nothing I do is ever enough or right. And sometimes I am actually really fucking wrong. Never like clearly malicious. But but I can make mistakes or I can take up too much space because something can happen faster than I anticipated it would, you know, or sometimes at the beginning in particular, when people like pass the mic, pass the mic, I was like, yeah, fuck. I’m a I’m a little bit new here in America. I don’t know who I am and no one’s around me. And also, this isn’t really a mic. It’s more of a sort of a dildoes that I’m holding because I’ve only got a few thousand followers. So give me gimme a minute. But I think and I’m just working through this as I you know, this is what I’ve had to say to myself over the last year and a half, is that people I don’t know what it is that makes people in our generation in particular more than ever, just be like, give up, just give up, go away, go, shut up, go away. Just give up. They’re very discouraging sometimes because we’re all in a lot of pain. We’re all fucking exhausted. We’re all impatient. And that impatience comes out not on the people who are actively taking away our rights as much as the people who are trying to help because those people are accessible. It’s someone that you can just take that rage out on. So I understand it. But the way that I get through all of that criticism and what feels like people waiting for me to slip and what feels like people looking for truly the worst possible intention in all of my work that I mean, like, you know me a bit. We have mutual friends. I couldn’t have better intentions or [00:31:24][91.7]

Adam: [00:31:25] Truly [00:31:25][0.0]

Jameela: [00:31:25] This shit is so hard and so traumatizing. This is exhausting and relentless, deeply rewarding. But, you know, is a lot. [00:31:33][7.6]

Adam: [00:31:40] With Voices For and with everything I do is it’s all about queer history because your queer history then you know where you come from and you know where you’re going. Judaism 101 for me, queerness 101. And so I when Voices For first came out of the gate, I was really taken aback by the slam of criticism that we and I got. And so I looked back to the history and I saw what happened before that. I just sort of assumed that everyone felt like Act Up the AIDS activists were total heroes and that everyone was cheering them on and they were just too scared to join them. And that’s not true at all. People hated Act Up at the time, they kept on doing die-ins during pride and holding everything up. And the people that made the AIDS quilt, [00:32:20][39.5]

Jameela: [00:32:20] I don’t know what that means. What do you mean what’s a die-in? [00:32:22][2.1]

Adam: [00:32:23] A die-in is a form of protest where you use your body and in a space intentionally lie down on the floor as if you dead and it creates a visual. And so Act Up would have die-ins in front of various buildings like they had one on Wall Street, etc.. And it’s a it’s a and so they would do them at pride to say like, why is everyone here celebrating? Why aren’t we talking about AIDS? And they were just lying in the street for hours and everyone would get upset because pride was taking so long. And the AIDS quilt like AIDS quilt, the folks that were doing the AIDS quilt and folks that were doing Act Up were fighting the entire time, they one was thought they were too radical. One thought of the institution, et cetera. Act Up who I always venerated, they had a huge schism, made a big split down the middle in nineteen ninety five, and then also like queer Jewish New York City gay icon, the one and only Larry Kramer, who I’ve always looked after. He was so difficult and problematic that he started two organizations or was credited with starting. He’s often credited with starting Act Up, which he actually didn’t, but he was a major player in Act Up and he was kicked out of that for being because he couldn’t work with anyone. And then he started GMHC he was kicked out of that, too. And so. There’s a history of deep, deep infighting within the queer movement, and I just was too ignorant to know that [00:33:51][87.7]

Jameela: [00:33:52] it’s within every movement and within every single movement. And I think a big part of it comes from not wanting the rug to be pulled out from under your feet. I think that’s a really big part of it, is that personally, this is just my personal observation is that sometimes I wonder if so many people have turned out to be the bad guy that we’ve now become. We started shadowboxing and like we’ve become trigger happy with. You’re a bad guy. You’re a bad guy because we don’t want to be surprised anymore, traumatized by who we thought we could trust, but we couldn’t because they ended up fucking us over because of greed or power, or maybe they didn’t have the right intentions all along or maybe they tricked us. And so now we’re just always trying to identify who was the bad guy, because within every not just within the community, within every single marginalized group, we are always trying to find out who who’s bad in advance so that they can’t hurt us so that we feel safe. [00:34:42][50.0]

Adam: [00:34:44] Yes, I agree, I think that is definitely one reason, but another reason, so I pulled out a book because I’m told we can do better than this, and it’s by Amelia Abraham. And it has like a bunch of iconic queer activists that wrote for it, especially that come from UK. And I wrote a response to this. And it’s going to be a lot more eloquent if I just read what I write in my essay than if I respond. [00:35:06][21.5]

Jameela: [00:35:08] Please I love that. [00:35:08][0.2]

Adam: [00:35:08] OK, so when it comes to movement work one, there’s definitely something trigger happy. It’s like a finger to point. Right. But also I wrote that movement work or the direct action organizing that fuels change is inherently disorganized. That’s why we call it organizing. That’s why we say after a protest, great organizing. The aim is to create a coalition of different people from different backgrounds with different opinions, but face and care about the same issues. An organizers job is to take the energy, resources, abilities and passions of a crowd and bring it together into an effort that is communicable and can drive change that is difficult enough, but now factor in systems built to exclude us and the trauma we all have as a result and factor in health care, the rise of nationalism and so on. It’s sort of a miracle that we get anything done at all. [00:35:57][49.1]

Jameela: [00:35:58] I would like to change my answer to Adam’s answer please everyone that’s fucking so perfectly so concise and so true. I think yeah, I think I think what I was saying exists in some areas, but I think more than more than that, what you’re talking about is so out of it. How can we expect everyone to suddenly have the perfect way to resolve this archaic issue? These archaic issues that we’re trying to resolve that still in twenty twenty one are showing no signs of being over. How are we supposed to get that perfectly right first time or second time or third time. [00:36:32][33.5]

Adam: [00:36:33] Exactly. Especially when the forces that are working against us sometimes, you know, governments, health care systems, institutionalized social codes are organized and we’re not we’re individuals are. At least we started as individuals before we became a movement. [00:36:47][14.0]

Jameela: [00:36:48] I love that. I mean, this isn’t the only time the I guess I don’t know if this is the right term, but the call has been coming from inside the house for you because in twenty nineteen you suffered a hate crime where someone attacked you because you wear is it it’s called a kippah, is that correct? So you wear a pink kippah [00:37:10][21.8]

Adam: [00:37:10] Yeah a yarmulke or kippah both are correct. [00:37:13][2.4]

Jameela: [00:37:13] Oh is it a keepa. I beg your pardon? [00:37:14][1.0]

Adam: [00:37:15] A kippah or a yarmulke they’re the same. [00:37:16][0.8]

Jameela: [00:37:17] Yeah, I think it’s my English accent coming into play there. So you were wearing a pink kippah and and someone attacked you saying that that is not what that does not represent Judaism. I can’t remember the exact words that they used. So would you mind telling me about what happened? [00:37:32][14.8]

Adam: [00:37:33] Yeah, definitely. And I’m glad that we’re talking we’re talking about all the trauma and sad stuff. [00:37:37][4.9]

Jameela: [00:37:38] Oh sorry! [00:37:38][0.1]

Adam: [00:37:38] No, it’s OK. I don’t mind talking about it. I just want folks to know that I’m a deeply, deeply [00:37:44][6.4]

Jameela: [00:37:46] happy person. [00:37:46][0.9]

Adam: [00:37:49] Pretty happy. [00:37:49][0.0]

Jameela: [00:37:49] We’re going to get on to that. We’re going to get onto that. [00:37:51][2.1]

Adam: [00:37:53] So basically, I was on the subway and I was presenting intentionally, which I do often, including right now as queer and Jewish. So I was wearing a denim jacket that said Never Again Is Now, which is a phrase that’s commonly used when talking about the Holocaust and had a pink triangle on it, which is a symbol that also comes from the Holocaust, but also has been reappropriated by the queer community. I was carrying a beautiful pink Susan Alexandra purse that look like a little Barbie purse and I was wearing pink make up that matched my pink kippah on the subway and someone stopped me and tried to talk to me and I didn’t understand what was happening. And I started filming them once I started understanding what was going on. And basically the person who I believe was Jewish, they had their head covered. They were speaking Hebrew, they were quoting scripture was basically saying you can’t be gay and Jewish. You know, I don’t think he was saying you can’t be Jewish or you can’t be gay. He was telling you that I can’t be both at the same time. And again, this was in Midtown or not it was in Gramercy Park. It was five p.m. There are a million people around. I’m a white guy. I didn’t feel like my life it was a little scary, but I feel like my life was threatened but [00:39:04][71.5]

Jameela: [00:39:07] You recorded it. It went viral. And the and then the mayor reached out being like, oh, Adam, well done for handling this like a real New Yorker and just showed you a message of support. And then I love what you did next. It was so iconic. [00:39:21][14.4]

Adam: [00:39:22] And then I was like, shut up. Like, if you care about queer people at all, you’ll meet with Layleen Palanco’s family. Layleen Palanco, an Afro Latino trans woman and a member of the legendary House of Xtravaganza. And she died in Rikers and he was refusing to meet with the family at the time. So I just quote, tweeted him that and then the people from his office immediately stopped texting me and. [00:39:46][23.6]

Jameela: [00:39:50] God, the transparency is so embarrassing, isn’t it? [00:39:53][2.9]

Adam: [00:39:54] I know, and so when and so I got so I posted it and the reason I posted it was because I was trying to show I was like, look, this is what a white clearly if I was wearing a different outfit. Straight presenting guy is getting on the subway in Midtown on a Sunday afternoon. Imagine what it’s like to be a black or a person of color gender nonconforming or trans person on the subway at midnight in a different area of New York. [00:40:22][28.5]

Jameela: [00:40:23] I think what struck me about that moment that was I think the first time I ever became aware of you is the fact that, you know, to speak to what we were talking about earlier, one of your big ambitions from the start, or at least from very early on, was just to amplify other voices or make sure that you weren’t in the room alone, you weren’t just trying to get into the room on your own to have the big platform and have the microphone like you’ve you’ve always wanted. As I said, you’ve always wanted unity. You’ve wanted all queer people to stand for all queer people. And God knows when we’re talking about the black trans women in particular, their contribution to fighting for the liberation of black people, of women, of the whole LGBTQ plus fuckin rainbow spectrum. They have been at the forefront of so many movements for equal rights for people who aren’t just them. And so we all owe it to black trans women to make sure that we show up in return, as thanks as mutual support for all of the ways in which they have laid down their lives for the rest of us. Feminism wouldn’t be where it is without trans women. We’ve learned so much about discarding gender conformity from them. [00:41:31][68.2]

Adam: [00:41:32] Absolutely, absolutely, one hundred percent. And in my book, I talk about how one of like 10 steps or 10 calls to action for how the queer community can change. And one of them, I say, is that people with more privilege to show up the people that have less privilege, because actually it’s traditionally it’s always been the opposite, where that the people that have the least privilege and our most marginalized show up for everything and then the people with more privilege don’t because they don’t understand how it impacts them. A gay guy that lives in Hell’s Kitchen and donates once a year to HRC doesn’t understand or might not understand that his freedom is directly tied to a black trans persons because same group. Doesn’t understand that his liberation is tied to a black trans woman because transphobia and homophobia are one and the same [00:42:25][52.5]

Jameela: [00:42:26] and the same tools are used to help us. Yeah, exactly. [00:42:30][4.1]

Adam: [00:42:30] The days following that were so difficult and so intense, it went everywhere because I did like there are two local news spots and I said the only way you can run this is if you keep in the quote about me talking about the reason why I’m talking about it is because I want to show that this is the hatred that exists. Because when so then I was talking to someone, a big friend of ours. I was talking to Alok and Alok was saying that, you know, people were applauding you for how you handled that by taking the moment and the attention and putting it in the most marginalized community on black trans women. But and that the fact that people are applauding you is a manifestation of privilege because black trans women are saying all the time, we are not safe we’re not safe on the subway we’re being harassed we’re being killed and nobody listens to them. But then when you, a palatable white guy, says the same thing, everyone’s like bravo bravo. And that’s privilege in itself. [00:43:30][60.1]

Jameela: [00:43:31] But I think it is starting to change. I do think the last year and a half has shown more actual activists instead of us trying to make celebrities into activists. I think we’re trying to make activists into and I don’t want to say celebrities because it is a gross word, but into public figures, I have seen more organizing, more mobilizing and more props being given to grassroots organizers online than ever before. And the last year and a half, and in all of the horror that we have seen in this past 18 months, that has been probably part of why I’m so hopeful about the future. You know, at the beginning of this, we’re both like yeah I’m all right. Which considering we’re still mid pandemic is pretty exceptional. And I think that comes from the fact that we are seeing our peers and the people that we look up to finally being admired as much as they deserve to be. [00:44:21][50.4]

Adam: [00:44:23] I agree, and it’s it’s really beautiful watching people get their flowers, and I think that, of course, it’s not happening enough and we need to continue pushing for it. But seeing certain people shine, it’s been really, really, really incredible. [00:44:36][13.4]

Jameela: [00:44:44] Talk to me about the best thing in your life. What’s something happy and wonderful in your life, [00:44:51][7.0]

Adam: [00:44:52] so something that’s really great and really cool is that I’m dating I’m dating a queer Jew and it’s my first relationship ever, or my first real my first adult relationship after my first relationship that’s lasted more than three or four months. You know, someone that I felt comfortable enough with to have my clothes off in front of, which is a really big deal for me. And it’s just been it’s been really interesting. And it’s also been really, really joyful and really, really fun. And it’s funny because I spent so much time talking about being queer, the importance of queer people showing up for each other and doing most of that time I was having absolutely no sex. At all, because I was so insecure about my body and I certainly wasn’t in any form of a successful relationship. And so one of when I first came out, I when I first came out in the first weeks of coming out, I told my mom I really hate being gay. And she was like, I understand that. But that’s so unfair to you because you’ve only experienced the hard parts of being gay. You’ve only experienced being in the closet and having to come out and have an experience like having a boyfriend or having a partner or being able to go to pride and be the same thing as being like, I hate Judaism when all you’ve done is fast on Yom Kippur. You didn’t get to have a Seder or eat matza ball soup. And so. [00:46:16][84.6]

Jameela: [00:46:17] Oh, my God, I love your mom. Your mom is so iconic. Also a great a great figure with an activism herself. [00:46:24][6.6]

Adam: [00:46:25] Yeah. She’s she’s really amazing. [00:46:26][1.8]

Jameela: [00:46:27] She’s the best. OK, well, so OK, so you’re in a relationship and and how has that impacted your body image, something you’ve spoken about before, like body image stuff. Because in particular, I think it’s no secret that in the gay community we’ve spoken about it on this book before in particular, there’s a lot of pressure to look a certain way. And that is something that you’ve spoken about sometimes where you’ve been trying to learn how to fight that and embrace your body. How’s that going now that you feel loved exactly as you are? I mean, there’s been a bit of a journey, hasn’t it? [00:46:55][28.1]

Adam: [00:46:55] It has. And something that I learned actually the week like the weekend after the week, right after that when I was attacked, I was feeling really vulnerable and really nervous and I’m really scared and my friend said I’m speaking at a college. Do you want to come? Do you want to come with me and get out of town? I’ll pay for your train ticket. I was just like, yes, I went on Grindr immediately. Once I got there, I think I was looking to get out of myself and I immediately found someone and I hooked up with this guy who was definitely had that Instagram body. He was super thin and had no body fat and he had like a great bubble butt. And he was super, super, super into it. And I knew that he was super into it because, one, he told me and two he, I could see that he was looking, you know, there’s some things you can fake and there’s some things you can’t. And then also he was like, oh, can we hang out and hook up again after your dinner? So. It was very clear there was no there was no type of story that I could have about him not being into it, but I still did not have any fun. I still felt so insecure. I still felt so deeply unsexy. And I remember jerking off right after he left, which means, at least to me, in my experience, that I wasn’t sexually fulfilled by whatever happened, even though in so many ways he was a fantasy boy for me. And I realized that like being sexy is that feeling ugh sounds so cliche it’s like being sexy or feeling good about your body is internal, not external. And so this guy who I was so attracted to being so into me. That didn’t do it for me, and so I have this loving and beautiful boyfriend. But I still have body issues because I have them, and I think that that is going to come for me to fix them, not from a third person. [00:48:48][113.1]

Jameela: [00:48:49] So what are you doing about that? Because, I mean, fucking hell, after, if people weren’t already struggling with body image before they were stuck on the Internet for a year and a half. Now, you can only imagine, like we have been able to leave the house, people’s bodies have changed. They’ve either become thinner than they wanted to be or bigger than they’ve wanted to be, that they don’t look the way that all these lying fucks on Instagram pretending to look nice at the time. And so everyone’s struggling. What are you doing to resolve that so that you can really be fully present in every moment? [00:49:21][31.7]

Adam: [00:49:22] That’s a great question. And first of all, I’m definitely not there at all, but something that I am doing and it’s sort of in some ways I’m realizing now mirrors the same way about coming out. So the first time that I posted about my body on Instagram, I was so terrified and I only kept it up because it got such a flash flood of attention and validation, not like, oh, you’re so hot validation. Like I feel the same exact way about my body. And I was shocked, shocked at the amount of messages I had from people saying I feel the same way. Thank you for talking about it. I also had messages from full on porn stars from like major studios saying, like, I feel the exact same way about my body, which really, really surprised me. So the first thing was I talked about it. I realized that I wasn’t alone with it because I really I just was I was in New York and I was gay I was like looking around like everyone is so thin or muscly or like super confident. I just felt so alone about it. So that was one. And then from there I was I’m not saying that everyone should post about their body on Instagram, but I am saying that if there’s a space that you feel comfortable talking about, it is good. And that helped me because [00:50:29][67.2]

Jameela: [00:50:30] You’d be amazed by how many other people feel the same exact way. We’re all seeing the same shit. We’re all existing in the same generation of of this really toxic body image. [00:50:40][9.6]

Adam: [00:50:41] Exactly. And so for me, that place was Instagram. For you, it might just be your group of queer friends or your group of friends. And so from that, I found allies that I can talk to about my body issues. Hunter Abrams is such an amazing, beautiful, brilliant special person, photographer, model news and legend. And we talk about our body issues all the time. So when I’m feeling badly about my body, I can text them and be like, I feel crazy about my body today and he’ll be like I hear you sis it’s OK so do I. And like, does that solve it 100 percent? No, but it definitely brings, like in one hundred to seventy five, especially because for so long in my whole life, I didn’t have that. And then for so long as an out gay person, I didn’t have that. [00:51:31][49.7]

Jameela: [00:51:33] Do you ever get angry? Do you ever get angry about. So I just ask you this because I now this has become a huge part of why I’ve recovered from my body dismor I haven’t recovered my body dysmorphic, but why I find my body dysmorphia more manageable, aside from the fact that I kicked my full-length mirror out of the house, I now when I think fat phobic thoughts about myself for like evil thoughts about myself or I start panicking about food or I see adverts that are trying to make me panic about my body or my age or my food. What I now have replaced self-hatred with is a burning fire of rage towards how many billions of dollars are made in profit from my self hatred. Is that something you ever think about? Because if it isn’t anyone out there, I strongly suggest trying to make this replacement. Well, when you think about it, you just get so fucking angry about how many hours have been taken from your life, how many orgasms we missed, how much sex with the fucking lights on so we can see what we’re doing and where we’re going and what’s happening. How much of that we have missed out, how many just hours of the day that we could have been spending, learning a new skill or a new language or sign language or something really helpful and amazing. And instead, we were just sitting there consumed with self-hatred. There are so many hours, so much money, so much just joy has been stolen from me by these things that now when they pop up in my psyche, either from me or from another source, I’m just like, no, fuck you. So it’s not that I’m OK. I’m not even Zen about it. I’m like actively angry. And then I express my rage out loud, even by myself. I’m just like, fuck you diet industry, 40 billion dollars just in America. Fucking diet industry. It’s probably gone up way higher since the beginning of the pandemic. And it genuinely then just like passes through me, the feeling converts into that and then it just passes through me and leaves me. And that has been my my greatest tool. And I think I Weigh is a big part of that because I’m so angry on behalf of all of these young people that I know and and older people who have spent their entire lives losing their youth to this shit. My rage for you has turned into finally my rage for myself. And it has helped me no longer make this about me. It was never about me. We were always all entitled to look however we look. A bunch of fucking naught point naught one percent billionaires decided to do this to us and they keep doing it to us. [00:54:14][161.2]

Adam: [00:54:15] That was so beautifully said and like I talk about in the book, like where anger is your power and so it’s the same exact thing like that anger is power. And I think I know that’s why one of the reasons you get so, so, so much, because once you figure that once the system realized that you figured that out and then taken it and successfully turned it into a weapon to take apart the system, of course, they’re going to come after you. [00:54:41][25.6]

Jameela: [00:54:42] Yeah, well, that’s because the media get so much the advertising money from weight loss products. [00:54:46][4.7]

Adam: [00:54:48] And so it’s really interesting. My response from that is going to start. The question is, is do I feel anger about it? And so, you know, in Tiger King, when Carol Baskin is like all I do is cats like I don’t read newspapers or watch TV or anything like it. If it’s not about big cats I’m not there. So when she said that at first I was like, oh, my God, that’s like like everything almost everything I do is about queer stuff, queer movement. It’s just the lens through which I see the world right now. Perhaps it’s because it was denied for me for a while. Maybe I’ll get over it. I don’t know. But when I think about that, I think that one, because of my male privilege, and two, because of my lens on the world, when I talk about that, when I see. What upsets me is when I see instagays, gays in positions of power or visibility that post photos of their bodies and then a photo with 10 other guys that have the same white washboard ab bodies, or when you see or when we see another like new young queer star cast in some incredible, like whatever amazing thing they’re casting, and it’s another cis 19 year old white thin guy, right. Or like we see, [00:56:13][85.3]

Jameela: [00:56:14] oh, that guy from The Bachelor who came out and and he was immediately offered this like huge array of jobs and amazing high profile things. And with so many other people who perhaps were not a blond, blue eyed cherub looking slim traditionally, do you know what I mean? Societally acceptable gay person. I think people went up in arms about it where they were just like, where were these fucking opportunities for all of us? [00:56:37][23.2]

Adam: [00:56:38] Exactly. Exactly. I’m not going to. [00:56:40][1.4]

Jameela: [00:56:42] Yeah, I’m just saying that’s not even my opinion. Like, I just only heard about it because the whole of the Internet, like, went up in flames, that those that it’s always the that now that we’ve allowed queer people into the space, the industry still is trying to cling on to the straightest looking, straightest acting and most societally beautifully acceptable version of a of a queer person. [00:57:08][25.6]

Adam: [00:57:09] Absolutely. And so when I see something like that or even like I just watched Death in Venice and, you know, like the whole movie is basically like worshiping of like youthful, thin white beauty. So from the Bachelor thing to that to so many of the queer celebrities we have just being skinny and white and all these instagays on Instagram being like it’s visibility, they’re keeping the visibility. It’s good to show young queer people that you can be openly gay and live your life and be happy. And it’s like, no, the message that you’re sending is that if you’re gay and you look in your body and you look like this, then you can have that life. And so I get upset. And the anger that I see is in part. So at first it’s anger, right? It’s at the gay community, but it’s also at the systems that are cropping that up. But then it’s also empathy and compassion, because I remember that I was on the piers and it was almost pride weekend. And you’re all like it was it was like the fiftieth anniversary of Stonewall and World Pride in New York. First and best weekend of my life, a different story. And we’re all like pulling our hair out, trying to plan. And then these two incredibly hot guys who were just like talking about all the parties they were going to go to and like how hard they were going to go on pride. And at first I was angry because I was like, you see, this is just an opportunity to party. And there are so many people that are suffering. And this is such an important moment for the queer community to like when the world literally is watching. To say something and do something, but also like one, who the fuck am I to judge? There are a million ways to celebrate pride and also, like, I don’t know the situation. I don’t know what they’re going through. I don’t know where they come from. Being in New York, I’ve met many, many, many incredibly beautiful gym Equinox gays, as we call them, that face the same issues that I do. They just manifested them differently. So I get angry and then I try to find compassion. [00:59:13][124.0]

Jameela: [00:59:14] Yeah, I’m not there yet. I feel like the people with the power I’m not so mad at, like, you know, a girl in a school or someone working in an office who’s got 11 followers, you know, putting out their best photographs only. But when it’s public figures who don’t use their platform to spread a bit of diversity, spread a bit of awareness and like try not to, like, uphold the most unrealistic standards, I get pissed. So I commend you for your empathy. And I, by the way, and I totally acknowledge that the need to do that is from their own damage because they grew up with role models who presented that as the ideal. And so they hate the real version of themselves. So they do all these things and don’t admit to these things. It’s just an endless cycle of pain, causing more pain, bleeding out to other people, becoming their pain, and then they bleed out to others. It’s just we just it’s just cyclical. But at the same time, at some point we have to take accountability and be like, who’s going to break the cycle? [01:00:12][58.5]

Adam: [01:00:14] Exactly. And like, I always I just get angry. I get angry when I see, like the minimal queer representation that we do have, like white and fit it is, but then also like, I try to have empathy for that because, like, that’s who they are. And also those bodies are being heavily inspected and put under a spotlight when they I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know. So I get angry and empathetic, but I think. [01:00:41][26.5]

Jameela: [01:00:43] I think that’s I think I think I agree with you, I think even when I talk about the Kardashians, I always try to remind people of what they went through that has led to them being obsessed with their esthetic or putting out false ideals as the world bullied them for 10 fucking years doesn’t mean it’s OK. But also, let’s make sure that we always zoom out as much as we can to remember the bigger picture because we don’t want anyone to be a victim of this shit. OK, well, I just want to say that I I’m really glad that you’re on a journey with your body and I hope you do whatever you can and try to get whatever help you can access. I think it’s amazing that you’ve got someone to share with when you’re feeling low about yourself. But I hope that, you know, even us, too, can talk about ways that have helped me. And I’m so down to help you and and along with my journey that I’m still endlessly on because it is a journey. It’s not a fucking destination. But I hope you do keep pursuing that because you’re really beautiful. Like I really love your face. And I’m really glad that now you have confirmation that someone else loves your face and your mind. Or adores you at the very least. And I’m really happy to hear that you are in all coupled up and happy about it. [01:01:58][75.2]

Adam: [01:01:59] Thank you. I appreciate that. I had like a sort of a cliche moment this weekend where I was like my family’s home and there was like a great aunt who was really old and saw me do the first thing she said. She was like, hi, you look a lot heavier than last time I saw you. Just like classic, just like classic Jewish. Like, I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie Shiva Baby. It’s really amazing. [01:02:19][20.8]

Jameela: [01:02:20] Oh, no, it’s on my to watch list. I can’t wait. [01:02:23][2.7]

Adam: [01:02:24] And it’s so it’s just basically like this girl and it’s just like hundreds of people talking to her about her body and her weight and my brother’s wedding is coming up. And I was at first I got sad because I was like, you know, a lot of people are going to look at me and think the same thing that she did, because that’s where our mind goes for then it’s like. OK, so what and I saw a friend that I had seen since covid and I saw her and I in my head subconsciously, I was like, oh, she gained weight. And then I was like that was I was like so excited to see her. I love her so much. It didn’t change anything that I feel about her at all whatsoever. I just noticed it. And then was like, Oh but that doesn’t matter at all. And so if people look at me and say, oh, he gained weight. OK, they’re not like I’m not at my brother’s wedding, like looking for boys. I’m not looking for boys at all right now. [01:03:18][54.0]

Jameela: [01:03:18] No, exactly. That’s it. You’re just having a lovely bloody time celebrating a family member. OK, so, Adam, while we’re leaving each other and a happier note, I always like to try to end this podcast with as much hope as possible. And I want to ask you, what do you want me and my followers to do? What would you hope for all of us to do to help serve the cause that you are fighting for? What is your hope for the world? To do regarding specifically the the main subject we’ve been speaking about today, which is which is queer rights. [01:03:57][38.6]

Adam: [01:03:58] Yeah, I think that simply put, if you’re clear, you are part of something greater than yourself and therefore you are never alone. And the same thing applies if you’re Jewish or any other persecuted minority. [01:04:13][14.7]

Jameela: [01:04:14] And is there anything practical that we can do to help serve the queer community? [01:04:21][6.4]

Adam: [01:04:22] So one thing I’ll say is that queer refugees and asylum seekers are everywhere. They’re all around us. People think that it’s this huge theoretical idea and ideological presence, which it is. But also there are people suffering that are next door to us. And so I would love for you to go to Voices For Berlin or Voices For London and help us continue to have Nick we calling Nick, a successful, loving and safe life. [01:04:50][28.4]

Jameela: [01:04:51] I love what you’re doing for Nick. I love what you are planning to do for more people like Nick. And I really appreciate what an open and warm and empathetic spirit you are, as well as someone who I just find so smart and someone who thinks outside of the box, which I love about you. And so I. I will just continue to support you from the other side of the country. And and I really look forward to watching your work continue to grow. And I really hope that you never let the criticism wear you down, because I know your heart and I think you’re really special. [01:05:29][37.1]

Adam: [01:05:30] Thank you so, so much and thank you. I feel like your your what you call it, like the role model in action or you’re like the archetype of an activist that is continuously learning and continuously passing the mic and continuously open. And I just love you and I’m so grateful to you for what you’ve extended to me and also so many of my friends. [01:05:55][24.7]

Jameela: [01:05:56] Thank you. The last thing we always do on this podcast is I ask the listener how much sorry or the guest, how much they weigh. And they tell me in like the traditional I Weigh format. So it’s not like, oh, pounds and kilos. Your face was absolutely classic for a second that you literally gave me a thousand yard stare. I hope we keep this in. The made the most amazing face at me, you were like Jesus fucking Christ. No, not in pounds and kilos. Adam just in like the ways that you would identify yourself. You know, like I weigh the sum of all of my parts. I weigh my relationship, I weigh my dog, I weigh my eating disorder. You know, it’s like all the different parts of me. You can just name like three or five things. [01:06:37][41.5]

Adam: [01:06:39] That’s so funny because I was like, I have not stepped on a scale since high school. I would say that I that I weigh the deep, deep history, queer and Jewish that brings me down and centers me, but also lifts me up and what I hope to be a very, very bright and united queer future. [01:07:03][24.5]

Jameela: [01:07:04] Lovely. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much for listening to this week’s Episode I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela Jamil, Aaron Finegan and Kimie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything check it out. You can get a free month to Stitcher Premium by going stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code I Weigh. Lastly, over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast, you can leave us a voicemail at one eight one eight six six zero five five four three. Or email us what you weigh Iweighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. [01:07:59][54.4]

Listener: [01:08:01] I weigh being a small, introverted, queer Southeast Asian Muslim woman in Singapore, by small, I mean, I’m only a hundred and forty seven centimeters tall. I weigh learning and reading about social activism, even if I’m not confident enough to speak up about it. I weigh overcoming internalized homophobia after years of living in a homophobic household. Lastly, I weigh being able to wake up every day and carry on with life even when times are hard. [01:08:01][0.0]

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