EP. 361.8 — Last Looks: Bad Boys: Ride or Die

[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: What is your favorite How Did This Get Made movie of 2024? Can someone define a bad boy? And we get into the origins of Superman. All this and more on today’s, How Did This Get Made Last Looks. Hit the theme.

[00:00:26] Music: [Intro Song] [00:00:38] Paul Scheer: Hello, all my bad boys, bad girls, and bad people. I’m your host, Paul Scheer. And welcome to How Did This Get Made Last Looks. Where you, the listener, get to voice your issues on Bad Boys, Ride or Die. A movie that discord user Ghost Bag. Ghost Bag?. I like Ghost Bag. Uh, Ghost Bag thinks should have the tagline “Bad Boys, if the Fast and Furious Franchise isn’t going to use Ride or Die…We’ll try.”

[00:01:08] I like it a little bulky, but I like it. Again, the biggest issue with Bad Boys Ride or Die is that they should have used the Bad Boys three title Bad Boys For Life. Again. All right. Yes. They, they made a mistake. They used the four in the three, but just use it again.

[00:01:29] We don’t care bad boys for life. Ride or die. Uh, all right. Anyway, thank you. Ghost bag for that alt movie tagline. You don’t get anything, but I want to give you a sincere thanks from the bottom of my heart. Remember if you have an alt movie tagline title, submit it to us on our discord and we might just read it on the show.

[00:01:50] All right. Coming up on today’s episode, you’ll be hearing a bunch of corrections and omissions from Bad Boys Ride or Die. I mean, you had some thoughts and we will break them all down. Plus we’ll even get into some Dracula 2000, uh, issues that people had. Yeah, it was re released. Uh, and people got those message boards fired up again.

[00:02:13] So we’re going to be tackling Dracula 2000 and Bad Boys in our corrections and omissions. Plus, I just want to give a special shout out to Gerry Butler, star of Den of Thieves 2 Pantera for that amazing message that you gave us all on the pod last week, you heard it. If you just listened to Dracula 2000, but, uh, if you want to see Gerry in the flesh, go to my Instagram page, go to How Did This Get Made’s Instagram page, and you can watch the video.

[00:02:41] He’s the fucking man. I love it. I love that he made that for us. And you know what? It worked people. Den of thieves came in number one at the box office. And it broke Lionsgate’s losing streak. Uh, I mean, it was the first number one movie that they have had since the Hunger Games prequel. So you’re welcome.

[00:03:04] That’s what you get quality, Gerry quality collab and you get number one movie. Anyway, uh, later in the show, I’m going to sit down with the great Brad Meltzer. You know, him as a comic book writer, you know, him as a children’s author and you know, him as, uh, an author of fiction, historical fiction, whatever it is, this guy has done it.

[00:03:26] We are going to talk about all of those things. Plus his brand new book, the JFK conspiracy, which my dad started reading when he was here and took it with him and then sent me an effusive note as if I wrote the JFK conspiracy. Uh, I read it and it’s great. So we’ll talk about that. Brad is going to be an inspiration to you all.

[00:03:47] And finally. We will reveal next week’s movie, but you, you know, that’s, we do here. That’s Last Looks. That’s par for the course. The other things not par for the course. Uh, anyway, before we get too far into things, I got to give a big shout out to Chris Cheney for that amazing theme song. That’s right, Chris.

[00:04:08] Thank you so, so much. I love it. We love the songs. And if you have any Last Look episode themes, you can send them to HowDidThisGetMade@Earwolf.Com. Keep them short. You know, if you’re listening, you know, don’t think, Oh, I got a great one. Scheer’s going to love this 90 second one. No, no, I want them short.

[00:04:28] 15 to 20 seconds is best. And by the way, um, because of the LA fires, we did reschedule our Largo shows that were happening in January. We are moving them to March. Keep your eyes open, uh, for dates. But if you are a ticket holder, you should have gotten an email that, uh, is giving you first chance to rebuy your tickets because we wanted to make sure that you would be the first ones to get that opportunity anyway, um, How Did This Get Made is going on tour.

[00:04:56] We’re going to be in Austin, Texas, Denver, Colorado, Boise, Idaho for the tree Fort festival, Seattle, Washington, San Francisco, Portland, Oregon, and then a big, big show in Los Angeles at the United Theater. Uh, so get your tickets now, go to hdtgm. com. We cannot wait to see you. Uh, this is going to be a fun road trip.

[00:05:17] I can already feel it. The movies that we are talking about are great. So get those tickets. And now let’s get into some Bad Boys. All right. Last week, we talked at length about Will Smith’s comeback, Martin Lawrence’s domination, but you know what? In that conversation, we might’ve missed a few things. We might have even made a couple of mistakes.

[00:05:44] Well, here is your chance to set us straight fact check us, if you will. It is now time for corrections and omissions, Bad Boys, ride or die edition.

[00:05:59] Music: [Corrections and Omissions Song] [00:06:02] Paul Scheer: Thank you, John Cone for that theme song, or is it John Cohen? Thank you, John Cohen. John Coen? Either way, we thank you. Let’s go to the Discord. Dove writes,

[00:06:12] “Although Bad Boys production used a prop animatronic alligator for the scenes in the abandoned amusement park, albino alligators do exist. Here is Claude, an albino alligator. I photographed him at the California Academy of Sciences in San Fran a few years ago. Claude, was hatched in 1995, just a few months before the first bad boys movie was released because of his albinism, making him easy prey and his poor eyesight. Claude wouldn’t survive in the wild. So he has spent most of his life in captivity in this very dimly lit exhibit. So just like everything else in this movie, the existence of an albino alligator is totally grounded in fact.”

[00:06:56] Well, you know what, Dove, thank you for bringing that to our attention. I don’t even think we brought up the veracity of albino alligators, but I’m glad to know they exist.

[00:07:06] And I’m also glad that our producer Matt loves Claude. Matt knew about Claude. He loves him. This picture is great. You should check him out on the discord. Dove, thank you for sharing your work. Uh, I love it. Zilla21 writes,

[00:07:19] “When Marcus sees their relationship through time, we get pairs of many creatures. This is a list of incarnations of Mike and Marcus. Ants, lemurs, birds, camels, gazelles, horses, and bears.”

[00:07:32] I want to understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that this is in there? Oh, oh, you’re saying that when like the flashes are happening, whoa. Okay, I needed. This is like getting a text from my mom. I need to put some context around it.

[00:07:49] Now I get it and I’m blown away. So all the things that we see in those flashes are all the different things that they have been through their life. And you’re saying there were ants, lemurs, birds, camels, gazelles, horses and bears. Holy shit. Let’s see a movie about each one of them. Uh, Fun Facts 47 writes,

[00:08:08] “Throughout the entire movie, Marcus is obsessed with salty snacks and candy. The opening scene, he buys Skittles. His ring password is Snickers89. So why didn’t M& Ms get a shout out when the initials for the main characters are M&M? Mike and Marcus.”

[00:08:28] By the way, where were you during the punch up session? That would have been a great ad lib joke in the film, but maybe too on the nose. I, I love Snickers 89. I know I missed it, uh, in my remembrance of it in the show, but M& Ms, Mike, Mike, we’re the original M& Ms. By the way, as we’ve seen them through the different incarnations, why couldn’t it be like camels, gazelles, peanut M& Ms? I mean, I would have loved to see, we should make Martin Lawrence and Will Smith voice the M& Ms.

[00:09:05] Somebody started a petition. I will, uh, promise to sign it. Then I’ll forget about it. Then you’ll remind me and then I’ll eventually sign it when it’s too late. Anyway, let’s go to the phones. Brandt from Orange County. Okay, what do you got?

[00:09:19] Listener: Hi, Paul and Jason. I have been a long time listener for about 14 years.

[00:09:23] Your show actually first aired about a week after my daughter was born, and she’s 14. What do you know? Um, anyways, I just wanted to say, in my 14 years of listening, this has never happened. I have never, at any point in time, stopped the podcast 11 minutes in and decided, I have to watch the movie that you’re talking about.

[00:09:43] Because sometimes I’ll listen, and I don’t I don’t even watch the movie, and I just listen because it’s funny. Um, I’m sure other people do that too, but there are plenty of times when I do watch the movie and listen as well. So this is the one time where I was like, June is giving such a glowing review of Bad Boys Ride or Die that I have to watch it.

[00:10:01] And I am so thankful that I did. Um, it was amazing. It was amazing. I’m so thankful. Um, I would love if you guys were to do a hop, skip and a jump down to orange County for a show someday that is like on my wishlist for life. Um, love you guys. Thank you so much.

[00:10:16] Paul Scheer: Holy shit. That’s what I love. I love that you had the willpower to stop the podcast, to watch the movie.

[00:10:25] And I hope you enjoyed the podcast more because of it, which I think you did. Anyway, uh, Jeff from LA.

[00:10:30] Listener: Hey, Paul. Um, first I wanted to point out, um, that there’s a spinoff of Bad Boys that you may not be aware of. Uh, Gabrielle Union’s character from Bad Boys 2 had a two season TV show called Ellie’s Finest with Jessica Alba.

[00:10:47] I think it was on one of those very small channels that no one ever heard of, um, back in the peak, peak TV era. Um, but my real reason for calling was to get, um, an idea from you of what is a bad boy? Joey Pants, you know, obviously calls them his bad boys as, uh, you know, they’re rascals. But in every movie, uh, Mike and Marcus sing the theme song to Cuffs, which is, you know, bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do when we come for you?

[00:11:15] So obviously to them, bad boys are bad. So I was just kind of wondering where do you think that term lands for them? All right.

[00:11:23] Paul Scheer: First of all, Jeff, let me just say, yeah, I know about LA’s Finest. Oh, I know it aired on, I believe Spectrum. Yes. The Spectrum Original, if you will. Um, I love Gabrielle Union. I was into this show.

[00:11:45] I found this show. There are some fun bad boys connections, but what happens is, you can’t really, like the bad boys universe, it’s, it’s Will Smith. It’s Martin Lawrence, right? Like we, like we need the Simpson Bruckheimer aesthetic or not even the Simpson Bruckheimer, we just need like that Jerry Bruck, big Michael Bay action.

[00:12:10] And I know that that LA’s finest, AKA Bad Girls did have good action and the acting was fun. And we had like connections with characters like John Sally and stuff. I will say this. I don’t consider it. It’s spiritual sequel. Sure. Whatever. Um, let’s get into your breakdown of bad boys. I think I need to throw this out to the discord.

[00:12:30] Yes. In bad boys. They sing the song bad boys, and I think they sing that song because in their mind, the song, bad boys, bad boys, bad boys, what you’re going to do is sung by cops there. They are singing the song that like, I imagine a bunch of cops in the studio recording that song, and that is the theme of cops.

[00:13:02] It is also the theme of the TV show Cops. All right. So that’s, we know that. So that, and that way they are singing their anthem, the cop anthem. He calls them his bad boys. That doesn’t make that much sense. Right. But hear me out, hear me out here. Joey pants is behind a desk, right. Behind a desk. You don’t know shit.

[00:13:37] He’s not out in the streets. He’s not singing the cop’s anthem. He’s looking at it more, uh, like the Webster, uh, dictionary definition of it, you know, where it’s like a person doesn’t conform to the approved standards of behavior in a specific, especially in a particular sphere. Uh, the activity, AKA, uh, being a police officer.

[00:13:59] These guys don’t conform to that. So he’s talking about bad boys, like the way that the, the dictionary defines it. They’re talking about bad boys, the way that the cops in the street talk about it, because that’s the song that they created. Don’t look it up. I’m pretty sure I’m right. All right. Uh, Jeff, back to the discord, uh, Dino Mike 4808 writes,

[00:14:24] “Correction. It is not a steady cam with handguns, as Paul mentioned, it’s a modified snorricam rig called Sputnik.”

[00:14:33] And I appreciate that Dino Mike has actually put a little video footage out there. The snorricam was used in John Wick and Guy Ritchie’s The Gentleman, according to their instagram. That’s from our producer, Codi.

[00:14:47] Um, I actually recognized it in the gentlemen when I saw The Gentlemen after Bad Boys. Uh, so I hope more people use the snorri cam. I’d like to use the snorri cam. Maybe I can use the snorri cam the next time I direct. Can I just request it? That’d be great. Doing a commercial for salad dressing. I’m like, can you meet a snoricam?

[00:15:06] All right, let’s go back to the phones for one more.

[00:15:09] Listener: Hey Paul, it’s Devon in Brooklyn. So I’m listening to your Dracula 2000 re release and Jason mentions that he wants to see an Ocean’s Eleven type movie where they’re stealing Dracula I know this is a old podcast but funny enough isn’t that the movie Abigail?

[00:15:30] Um, also, I want to say that I hope you guys are good and safe from the fires. I hope everybody is good. You, June, the kids, the dogs, Jason, his tea bags, I guess. Um, all of you guys, I hope you’re safe. And also, last thing, Paul. Your book was amazing. I enjoyed it so much. Thank you so much. I’ve never related, cried, laughed at things that I had through my childhood. So, thank you so much for that book and have a happy new year.

[00:16:09] Paul Scheer: Davon, thank you. That is, uh, I really appreciate that. That’s the nicest thing. Uh, my hearing people’s reactions to the book has been overwhelming. And as a year kind of came to a close, just kind of looking back on all my experiences and, it’s been really an amazing time and more and more people have been finding it, which is amazing about books. Like books don’t die. They kind of grow. And I just loved it. And I was really lucky to get put on some of these best of lists and just been lucky the whole time. But honestly, the best part of it has been like messages like that. So I appreciate that. But now let’s get into the real meat of it all. You’re right. We did that Dracula 2000 podcast in 2022 originally, uh, Abigail came out in 2024. So yeah, maybe let’s connect the timelines. Did someone steal this idea from listening to an episode of Dracula 2000? I think so. I think they did. Uh, No, I know of course they didn’t do that. All right. Uh, Davon, thank you. It was so great to hear everything that you were thinking.

[00:17:22] And finally, we are safe. Uh, we are fine. We are lucky. Uh, Jason June, uh, um, our kids, his tea bags, our dog, uh, we, uh, you know, we had to evacuate because we had lost some power. Uh, we are back at home. Uh, and it’s been a really scary time and emotionally overwhelming time and our hearts are with our friends and our loved ones.

[00:17:50] Um, uh, as if that’s different. Uh, with all of our loved ones who have lost so much. And, um, you know, I’m so impressed by LA and I’m impressed by everybody around me who is just rolling up their sleeves and doing the work. LA is a really interesting place that I think gets, um, mistreated a lot, uh, you know, as an empty, vacant, phony place.

[00:18:18] And the truth is, is over the course of COVID and these strikes, what has come to the forefront time and time again, is that LA is a city that gets each other’s back. And we have been incredibly lucky to feel that support and be a part of that support. And, uh, you know, this is just. Something that is devastating beyond belief.

[00:18:41] 95, 000 people are, um, displaced right now. It’s crazy, crazy number. And, um, like I said, we were lucky and we’re here and, uh, you know, now we get to just do the work. So I appreciate all that. And I thank you so much. Um, all right. So many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one, one that is head and shoulders above the rest.

[00:19:09] Now, personally, I would pick Davon because Davon liked my book, but the truth is I have to be a little bit more. And, uh, and I think, you know, look, we’ve heard about albino crocs. We’ve heard about, uh, we’ve heard about M and M’s. We’ve heard about, uh, many, many of things, but I mean, this is a tough one because it’s not that much this week to even break it all down.

[00:19:34] I, you know what? I am going to go with Jeff from LA because you know what? LA needs some love. And Jeff, you got me to break down a Bad Boys. So I feel like Jeff, you are this week’s winner. You get nothing, but you do get this amazing song from our friend, Katie Morris. Hit it.

[00:19:59] Music: [Winner’s Song] [00:20:05] Paul Scheer: If you want to chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode of How Did This Get Made? Well, hit us up on the discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM, or call us at 619-PAUL-ASK. Okay. Coming up after the break, we will announce next week’s movie and then I will be joined by Brad Meltzer.

[00:20:32] I mean, what has this guy not done? He’s writing thrillers. He’s writing nonfiction. He’s writing kids books. He’s writing TV. Guy’s got so much, so much on the table. We’re going to talk about his brand new book, uh, the JFK conspiracy. People get ready. Cause, uh, you’re not going to want to miss out. You’re going to be inspired.

[00:20:51] And we got so much more extra goodness in there. All right. Stay tuned.

[00:20:57] All right. Welcome back. I’m sure you noticed every week we, uh, re release old How Did This Get Made episodes back into our feed. These are matinee episodes, right? They come out every Tuesday now, not Monday. And this Tuesday’s matinee is The Apple with guest Andy Richter.

[00:21:13] And next week’s will be The Shadow with Pete Davidson. So keep on checking out all of our replays of classic episodes until we figure out some sort of paywall system where we can have the entire library available. But right now we can’t do it like that. We’ll, we’ll get there. We’re going to do it. Now. Uh, Jason couldn’t be here this week, but I got a guest that’s going to knock your fricking socks off. Brad Meltzer. Uh, he is the Emmy nominated. Number one, New York Times bestselling author of The Lightning Rod, The Escape Artist, and 11 other bestselling thrillers. He writes non fiction books that are equally compelling.

[00:21:52] Uh, he started off with this series called The Nazi Conspiracy, and he has a brand new book called The JFK Conspiracy, which is fantastic. It’s about a secret plot to kill JFK that you’ve never heard of. And his ordinary people change the world books. It’s a kid’s series that I love what she does with, uh, and I’m going to mispronounce this guy’s name.

[00:22:13] Chris Ilo Poulos is a staple in our household and inspired the PBS kids TV show, Xavier Riddle and The Secret Museum. If you’ve not read his Justice League of America books, they’re great. We’re going to talk about Superman. He won the prestigious Eisner award. I mean, this guy. He’s doing everything. He’s even hosting his own shows on the History Channel.

[00:22:33] He was responsible for finding a missing 9/11 flag that the firefighters raised at Ground Zero. He also, uh, delivered a commencement address to the University of Michigan in front of 70, 000 people, including his graduating son. I do think that if you’ve not Heard that commencement address. It’ll give you chills.

[00:22:54] Um, it has been shared millions of times on social media. Do yourself a favor and watch it. It’s great. Um, all right, that’s, I think that’s a good for an intro. I mean, I don’t even know how to knock them down because it’s not a simple guy to set up. Uh, so. Welcome. I am so excited to have you on the show.

[00:23:15] And first of all, I just have to say, I think you’re the only person I’ve ever talked to that really has a legacy throughout my entire family, which is, I came at you, uh, through, like, comics. My, my kids have come at you through, uh, the books that you have written. Uh, these, like, um, I Am, the I Am books about, you know, different, uh, leaders.

[00:23:37] And my dad is a gigantic fan of yours. Uh, and so you really, you cover all the bases. And I think that’s, you know, I guess the question is, how do you do it? I mean, how do you keep these varied? I mean, those are very big age groups that we’re talking about here. You’re getting everybody.

[00:23:53] Brad Meltzer: Yeah. You know, the, the truth is, um, and, and I have to say, I have to start with, you’re the first person I’ve ever been interviewed by who my friend Noah said should play me in my autobiography.

[00:24:03] Paul Scheer: I mean, I’m in, I’m ready for it.

[00:24:04] Brad Meltzer: So. The truth is, is I started writing when I was 27 years old and we’re a similar age. And so we were reading comics and doing those things and those people came along. And then I started having kids and the people that were reading me had kids. And so when I started writing kids books, they came along.

[00:24:22] And obviously the History Channel just brings in everybody’s dad. Um, but so, so that’s just the weird one, but, but I think it’s truthfully on it. You’ve been the lucky recipient of this is it’s just the people who have been readers of mine and, and people who watch you, they’re just so loyal and amazing. Comic book people are the best people. And I, they’ve just always been with me. They’re like, I remember going to my first book events and they knew I liked comics when nobody liked comics. And they would just be like, I’m buying your stuff, man. I’m like, I love you for that.

[00:24:53] Paul Scheer: But now let me ask you this because you are responsible for, I mean, what I would argue is not even controversial, but like a groundbreaking, like when you wrote Identity Crisis, uh, that was like an earth shaking comic book moment in many ways, right?

[00:25:09] I mean, it, yes, it’s getting all this praise as one of the best books, but like, when you also poke that, that bear of. Loyal fans and you mess up stuff before you, you shake it up.

[00:25:21] Brad Meltzer: Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I mean, listen, I have the only death threats I’ve ever gotten in my life also came from comic book fans. So, yeah, make no mistake, I got, I got both.

[00:25:31] But, but, you know, but even Identity Crisis was never meant, you know, the beautiful part for me is it was never meant to be anything big.

[00:25:37] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:25:37] Brad Meltzer: It was, it was nine, it was right after 9 11 and Dan DiDio was like You know, remember those days when, after 9 11, where we used to thank, if we saw a cop on the street or someone who was a firefighter, you’d be like, thank you for your service.

[00:25:50] And you’d just be so thankful that these people you knew were putting their lives on the line every day. And then the deal was like, can you write like a short, small story that will make us feel like when our heroes put their uniforms on, that they’re risking their lives. And we kind of lost that. We want to get that back again.

[00:26:06] So it wasn’t a big crossover. It wasn’t anything. I just said, I’m going to write this short story. And then when Dan got the scripts, he was like, Oh, I can turn this into a big crossover. But that was never the plan for me. I, when he went out there, I was like, you do what you want with it. I just got to tell my story.

[00:26:20] I think if we went in as a big story, they would have never let me do what we were doing.

[00:26:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah. You know what? That’s really interesting because that moment, that 9 11 moment, I think brought some, I mean, what you’re talking about is like a reality to it. Like it grounded it in like, these people are. Well, they’re, they’re fictional characters, but we had some realism or we dealt with things in a different way.

[00:26:42] Like, I remember there was even like a Spider Man, like, you know, realizing he couldn’t prevent 9 11, like, and that was like, you know, like these ideas that I love the way that the comic book world kind of reacted to crisis and in a, in a way.

[00:26:56] Brad Meltzer: Oh, and listen, the comic book, but that’s all we’ve ever done in the comic book world, right?

[00:27:00] I mean, right. My senior paper in college was comic books as propaganda in World War II.

[00:27:05] Paul Scheer: Wow.

[00:27:06] Brad Meltzer: They were you like Superman, we didn’t get Superman because America is the greatest country on earth, right? We got Superman because two Jewish kids were looking around at, at Hitler and all this fascism and saying, Oh my gosh, we need someone to come save us. And so they created something to come save us. And why did it take off? Because America was scared and needed someone who was dressed in a flag and was bulletproof and was going to be made. And that’s why it sold a million copies.

[00:27:32] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:27:32] Brad Meltzer: To me. The most important part is never, part of the Superman is never Superman.

[00:27:37] The most important part of Superman is Clark Kent. Because we’re all Clark Kent and we all know what it’s like to be boring and ordinary. And so the culture always reflects the humanity that we’re dealing with. So you see that, you know, whether it’s the sixties and you’re looking at hard traveling heroes or 9 11, you got Identity Crisis and you got all these other, you know, Civil War came out of that too.

[00:27:56] Was this moment where we’re trying to figure out who are we fighting here? Are we fighting ourselves? We fighting the villains? It’s like. They we’re always a, you know, it’s always a mirror.

[00:28:05] Paul Scheer: Well, you know what I think is so interesting too? We have these amazing writers and I, I feel like in, I don’t even know when you noticed the change.

[00:28:11] I was just talking about this with a friend. I used to go to Comic-Con in San Diego. I went to a bunch of cons in New York when I was a kid, and it was very low key for all intents and purposes. And then I think the moment I always talk about in San Diego, and this is a while, this is not that wild. Like it’s closer than it is further away, was when Twilight premiered the Thursday night at Comic Con.

[00:28:34] I was like, Oh, this is not Comic Con anymore. Like this is a different thing, right? It’s like, it’s for everybody.

[00:28:39] Brad Meltzer: That’s not, that’s not watching the Star Trek bloopers in the back of the Holiday Inn.

[00:28:43] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:28:43] Brad Meltzer: I mean, that’s all we did. Our, my original Comic Con, so to speak, were, you go into a holiday in, in, in Brooklyn or in Florida and they had one show to watch the Star Trek bloopers and they just ran nonstop and I would watch them like three times. Cause I’m like, what else am I going to do?

[00:28:59] Paul Scheer: Oh, it’s, it’s the, it was like the coolest, weirdest people you’d ever meet.

[00:29:03] Brad Meltzer: And you’d find like, I’d be like, I’m looking for the George Perez JLA postcards. Do you have them? And they said, no, I’d be like, I will wait for the next comic convention because I can’t possibly find anyone else to. You know, all the nerds that I know are in one place here and there’s like four dealers there. And that seemed like a lot. But, but yeah, once Hollywood came in, we lost our spot, right? Like that’s when artists alley got pushed away. And the people who love comics, you were like, why are you really here? And then you suddenly had like actors who you were like. Do you really like comics? Or are you saying you like comics and producers who are like, I love comics. I’m like, you don’t know shit about comics. I know, you know, nothing about comics.

[00:29:36] Paul Scheer: Well, it’s, it’s so weird when you can tell when people don’t like not fake the funk, but it is, it’s a weird thing. It’s like, Oh, I’ve always wanted to play this character.

[00:29:43] I’m like, really?

[00:29:44] Brad Meltzer: No, no, no. That fake the funk is the perfect term for, I mean, that it is. I, I love. The thing. I used to be mad at it and now I actually love. Because it’s kind of, you know, the best question I’ve ever been asked in my career ever at any Q and A was at San Diego Comic Con. It was me. I was on a panel with like Chip Kidd.

[00:30:02] I’m trying to remember who else was on. It was a great panel. It was just about like nerd culture. It was the first kind of nerd culture panel. And someone stood up and said, In a genre where we’re so focused on being outsiders and we always loved it for being the outsiders. How does it feel when everyone now loves what you love so much?

[00:30:20] Does it ruin a little bit about what you love? Then I was like, Oh man, this person’s seeing my soul right now, right? But, but it was, that was the question. And now I get, now I used to be mad at it, but now when I see some beautiful actor completely faking it, I’m like, You are sucking up to us nerds. Like that’s an unbelievable power shift.

[00:30:41] Paul Scheer: Yeah, you’ve, you’ve seen how to get like your way in with the cool kids because they also know that if you have to, you have to make it right for them. Right. So you get these like really big actors who have to then like kind of bow down and be like, do you like it? You know, and, and, and, and if they do.

[00:30:55] Brad Meltzer: Right. I love that. I love that. Yeah. They’re, they’re like, I don’t know. Do you like this Sonic or should we change this? Like when that happened, that was, that was the ultimate power shift in like, they’re now asking us and reacting and it’s, by the way, the worst thing that ever happened because once you do that.

[00:31:12] Paul Scheer: Well, that’s the problem, right?

[00:31:13] Brad Meltzer: You lose all control. And now you’re just ass kissing instead of creating.

[00:31:18] Paul Scheer: Well, the, the, the tricky thing is, and I’ll tangent for myself for one second and say, I was in charge of reimagining Galaxy Quest at a certain point. Um, and I was working on that and my point of view was exactly what you and I just talked about.

[00:31:31] I was going to take it from the point of view that when Galaxy Quest came out, It was about these smaller hotel conventions. It wasn’t cool. It wasn’t hip. It wasn’t good. And I was going to bring it into the now and do the Holly. It was basically like a JJ Abrams is reinventing Galaxy Quest with these actors who don’t care and their fish out of waterness is that they’re just a list actors who are living the great life. And then they actually are put into like a real high world scenario.

[00:31:56] Brad Meltzer: Not only would I watch the crap out of it. It’s genius. It’s perfect. Like, so of course they’re not, now they’re not making it right. Cause.

[00:32:02] Paul Scheer: Well, no, of course. Well, there, there, there issues were like, we just want it to be like the action, the first one was like, well, but, but you can’t just put those people back into outers.

[00:32:10] Brad Meltzer: You can’t have the same thing. What the first one did so well is it wasn’t just, it was a commentary on what that Trek culture had become and how it turned. Yeah. Of course, you took it to say, well, now it’s 20 years later, 30 years later, let’s see it shift again. And you have great commentary, which would be great.

[00:32:30] Paul Scheer: I want to talk about Ghost Machine for a second because what’s happening in this world is some of the biggest franchises have been created by brilliant minds like yourself and You know, I talked to Ed Brubaker about this all the time, you know, you don’t get any credit for it, you don’t get any like that residuals, the money, like you get, like you are working for a company, you create this thing, they get to go and make whatever, but you are the creator who gets nothing, and it’s a weird, it’s a weird thing, and back in the day it was, I don’t think people cared about it that much because it was, they’re comics, but now they are, franchises, multi billion dollar toys and their designs and character archetypes that you’ve created that you have no hand in.

[00:33:09] And I think what I love about this, tell us a little bit about a ghost machine a little bit, but.

[00:33:13] Brad Meltzer: Yeah. So, I mean, listen, the comic industry, ever since Superman got sold for 135. The comic industry has never changed, right? Like that’s how it operates. That’s not a bug. That’s the feature. Um, and Ghost Machine was, and again, full credit to Jeff Johns, who basically was like, wait a minute.

[00:33:30] He’d done all the DC work. He’s done Marvel work. He’s produced all these DC movies was like, why is all the money going there? And we can basically take the creators that, you know, grab control of our own creations. And, and, and I think what also happened, listen, this is not a new idea, right? Image comics did this years ago.

[00:33:49] And then you see tons of great people splitting off from the comic industry and saying we’re going to do it I think um, that’s what Ghost Machine does but what Ghost Machine really does best is everyone actually owns it together

[00:34:00] Paul Scheer: That’s amazing

[00:34:02] Brad Meltzer: So in other words instead of instead of just saying, you know, when when jim lee had wildcats and you had you know, Eric Larson had Uh Savage Dragon and Mcfarlane had Spawned They were together, but they were all in charge.

[00:34:13] You only got money from your own property. We actually own everything together as a company. So everyone rises. We all have an incentive not to just root for our own self, but to root for everyone. And there’s books like Red Coat and there’s books like Rook that are out there. Um, I’m doing one called a First Ghost, which is, um, I won’t ruin it just yet, but basically is, is, is about, uh, is about ghosts.

[00:34:37] Um, needless to say with the word ghosts, I really just spoiled the whole thing there that it’s called first ghost. And it’s about ghosts and publicists be like, why’d you say that? I’m like, anyway, it’s a, it’s, it’s basically about ghosts in the white house, which I’m obsessed with. And I’ve always been obsessed with, and Jeff and I wrote it in the pandemic. And he was like, why don’t we do this here?

[00:34:56] Paul Scheer: I love this.

[00:34:56] Brad Meltzer: And so we’ve, the greatest thing in the world, I will tell you, cause you love it. Like you, like me, when, when we were younger, when Stan Lee used to talk about the bullpen, the Marvel bullpen.

[00:35:06] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:35:06] Brad Meltzer: We used to imagine that like they were sitting together creating comics together and they weren’t, that was all a lie to make us feel like happy.

[00:35:13] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:35:14] Brad Meltzer: But the greatest thing that Ghost Machine has is we have a text thread that has all the creators on it. And it is the bullpen. It is the virtual bullpen. And like, it is one of my favorite things. Like, I feel like I sometimes feel like nobody’s working. Cause we’re all just like putting our best material into the thread.

[00:35:34] But it is one of my favorite things is that this group is just so pure and so happy and excited about each other’s work. And you’ll see someone like Brian Hitch post something and Jason Faye box. Like, Oh, I love that. Or Francis Manipal is like, check this out. I’m trying this. And you’re just watching these guys create in real time.

[00:35:50] And. It is the most fun, amazing thing to witness.

[00:35:53] Paul Scheer: I love that. And that is very similar to a writer’s room, right? Like you’re in this room and that’s why I always, I hate when shows are nominated, uh, for writing awards or best writing because you know, 90 percent take the Tyler Sheridan out, take the, the Matthew Weiner stuff out, it is.

[00:36:09] All the it’s built in the room, you know, you have, and, and everybody adds to it. So even it’s even weird and some people know this, some people don’t, but you know, there might be a name on a script, but that name is just because you, the contractually have to have your name on a script, like you may be shepherding it, but there’s a ton of different ideas in there and it really does.

[00:36:30] I feel like there should be. Every writing award should be for the writers room of that season because they all are there.

[00:36:36] Brad Meltzer: The writers room is the greatest. I mean, listen, I’m a novelist. I started as a novelist, which is I sit alone in a room by myself. And then when we worked on Jack and Bobby, it was like me and Greg Berlanti and Michael Green and Mark Guggenheim, like, this murderer’s row of, like, nerds and geeks that, you know, and Vanessa Taylor and Dobby Waller, who worked on Mad Men.

[00:36:57] I mean, it’s crazy. But I remember things would come out of everyone’s mouth that I’m sitting there going, like, Why am I sitting by myself creating when you can have like really sharp minds at it? And there wasn’t a single script that went out that I felt like everyone didn’t have at least a couple good lines in there and right built together.

[00:37:13] Paul Scheer: Well, it’s also like the idea of just being able to bounce things off of people and just see the reaction in the room. And you’re right. Like I just finished writing my first book and it was incredibly solitary experience. And I loved it. I loved it for many reasons. But it also is this thing where I love creating.

[00:37:32] I’ve, I’ve written comic books for the most part with a partner because I like to be able to go back and forth. We see other things and I, it makes, it makes me better. I come from improv and that’s collaborative. Um, but I do wanna know how, you know, ’cause I think some people think, oh, well you, you have this and how many books have you written?

[00:37:51] Brad Meltzer: I’ve written 50, but I’ve written like 35 of them are kids books, so let’s be, it’s a little easier, they’re only 40 pages.

[00:37:59] Paul Scheer: Alright, so you’ve written, you’ve written a ton of books, you’ve written a lot of books by yourself, this book that just came out, uh, right now, you’ve written with a, uh, co writer, Scott Mensch, right, I believe his name is?

[00:38:08] Brad Meltzer: Josh mensch, the best last name for any Jew to be writing with is Mensch.

[00:38:12] Paul Scheer: Uh, so you wrote it with Josh, uh, and now, but like I seem, I guess there’s a, a thought and I think I see this a lot in comedy. Like standups don’t like to necessarily involve themselves with other people. Like I do my own thing.

[00:38:24] That’s how I do it. Now, is it easy for you to make that? It seems like it’s very easy for you to make that thing, to be able to write very all solitary and then to kind of move over.

[00:38:31] Brad Meltzer: I think, like, I think just like as an improv and, and I let, you know, my friends, the scholars, obviously we talk about, you know, improv and things like that, but.

[00:38:38] For me, it’s all about the partner you have, right? You can be as good as you want, but you know, I learned it in comics. My first improv was in comics. That’s when I was first like, Oh my gosh, there’s a writer here and I got to learn. I mean, I’m a, I’m a writer. There’s an artist here. I got to learn how to shut up because the art’s going to tell the story.

[00:38:53] Paul Scheer: That the best lesson I ever learned about that.

[00:38:55] Brad Meltzer: And that, that was the best lesson I ever got. Right. It was like, just shut. Up, Meltzer, stop talking and like, let the artists do their awesome thing and stop putting your, all your, you know, dialogue that you think is so genius over everything.

[00:39:06] Paul Scheer: Well, it’s so great. Cause I watched some. Some writers over dialogue comics and what you realize is like some of it is very much old school Charles Dickens work, right? Right, like the softballoon, right? The big thing, of course. Yeah, and it’s like, but it’s like there you’re it’s a you are cooperating and you want to see what they do and a lot Of the times what I love to do is get that edit pass see the art and go I don’t need any of this.

[00:39:30] I just go back and cut, cut, cut because the image is.

[00:39:33] Brad Meltzer: A hundred percent. I, every time I get it, I’m like, take away this balloon, take away this balloon. But the same thing with Josh, I went, Josh and I write a book. So we started, you know, this one’s about JFK. It’s about, it’s called the JFK conspiracy, right?

[00:39:45] So we start.

[00:39:45] Paul Scheer: The third in the series or the fourth in the series, right?

[00:39:48] Brad Meltzer: So we started with, they’re all, these are actually all real stories. We started with a real life secret plot to kill George Washington in the first conspiracy. We did the Nazi conspiracy. Yep. about a secret plot to kill FDR, Stalin and Churchill.

[00:39:59] We did a Lincoln one. This is JFK. But when we start the whole key to the book, and this is a plot you don’t know about JFK.

[00:40:07] Paul Scheer: It’s great. By the way, this is, this blew my mind. And I, by the way, my dad was here visiting, saw it on my counter, read it and was. It took it back with him to New York, sent it back to me and was like, it wrote a giant note on the front of it, how much he loved this book.

[00:40:21] Brad Meltzer: Well, the thing is, it’s such a crazy story, right? And we all know the stories of how JFK got killed, of course, in 1963. This is a story right after he gets elected. There’s a guy who hates him because he’s Catholic and he doesn’t want a Catholic being president. He basically is like, I’m going to kill this guy, JFK.

[00:40:37] And he follows him down to Palm beach, Florida, starts following his patterns. He sees every Sunday at 10 AM. He goes to church. He comes out of his house at 9 50. He gets in the car with the secret service. They drive to the church service. So this guy, Richard Pavlik puts 10 sticks of dynamite in his trunk.

[00:40:55] Basically is like. 20 yards away from JFK. Sure enough at 9 50 in the morning, JFK comes out of his building and Richard Pavlik just has to hit the gas and hit the little trigger in his car and truly boom will go the dynamite. And I won’t ruin what happens or what saves his life on that particular day, but I just ruined chapter one of the JFK conspiracy for you.

[00:41:16] Right. But, but the whole thing, but the whole point of it is, is when I’m writing with Josh. We have that story, but we’re like, what are we writing about?

[00:41:24] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:41:24] Brad Meltzer: And Josh and I are both like, wait a minute. This guy’s life is so beautiful to so many. He looks so beautiful. He’s got the perfect hair. He’s got the perfect wife.

[00:41:32] He’s got the perfect life and his life is anything but. He’s cheating on his wife. He’s sleeping around. He’s doing all this. I’m like, this is the awesome story. And the only reason Josh and I can write together is because we see that subtext story exactly the same. And that’s the same thing like your, like your Galaxy Quest thing, right?

[00:41:50] Like you’ve got to see the subtext big thing to be able to write with someone on it.

[00:41:54] Paul Scheer: And there’s something like, I mean, I feel like in this book too, what you talk about with Jackie Kennedy is very different than what we know of Jackie Kennedy. And again, I’m not like, I think that you’ve given enough of a tease because it really is interesting.

[00:42:05] It’s such a great. It’s a story that he didn’t know and I think like there’s a reason for it, which was like the um, It’s there was a plane crash the day after this or like

[00:42:15] Brad Meltzer: everyone’s like, why don’t I know this story? The day that the story breaks it’s going to be on the cover of every newspaper in the country And there’s a plane crash over new york city and two planes collide And one kid is the only survivor of this double plane crash and everyone in the world wants to know what happened to the kid.

[00:42:33] Did he survive? Did he die? Did he live? And that kid becomes the front page of every newspaper and the story about JFK becomes a footnote until a nerd like me comes along and says, wait a minute, what the hell happened? And that’s a really cool story. Nobody knows.

[00:42:47] Paul Scheer: I love that. Now, I have to ask you, because.

[00:42:50] You in, in, in looking at the book and, and, uh, and getting ready to talk to you. I, I mean, the only thing I kept on thinking about was what’s going on right now. News, right? With this Luigi, you know, we were talking about this assassin and you’re talking about like, what are like, you know, this idea of like monitoring somebody, seeing which, where they’re going, getting in front of it. Planning this whole thing, you know, this idea, I thought it was, I, I didn’t know if you have any thoughts on like what you’re seeing with this. Cause this is unlike.

[00:43:17] Brad Meltzer: I mean, we, we wrote the book purposely for this time for the inauguration because it’s, you know, Kennedy’s election is 1960. He’s going against Richard Nixon.

[00:43:27] It’s the closest election in modern history at the time, whatever side you’re on, you hate the other side and think they’re, they’re fools and morons, right? Does that sound familiar to you? It’s exactly the same story. And, and you can’t be surprised. The reason why this happens, why this guy goes after Kennedy is because the other side just gins up so much hate and venom.

[00:43:48] And when you gin up that hate and venom, don’t be surprised when you activate some lunatic out there. And it’s the same thing with Luigi. You know, the thing about these, the secret service, I do a lot of work with them and they explained to me this and Paul, this is the craziest thing they ever said to me.

[00:44:01] They said, assassins are of two types. There’s, there’s, there’s hunters and there’s howlers.

[00:44:08] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:44:08] Brad Meltzer: Okay? And a, and a howler makes a lot of noise and says, I’m gonna go kill that guy and screw him and I’m coming for you, man. And they don’t do anything. They’re all talk. Right. That’s what a howler is. They’re all talk and lots of noise.

[00:44:20] But a hunter It makes no noise. They don’t tell you they’re coming, and that’s who pulls the trigger. And if you look at the four presidential assassins in history, and even the recent ones, they’re all hunters. And if you look at Luigi, it’s the same thing. Didn’t give a word, didn’t give a, you know, didn’t say I’m coming.

[00:44:38] These guys are the same. They’re, you know, and you can’t be surprised when you see it happening again and again and again, people get activated. They get pissed and get out of their way.

[00:44:49] Paul Scheer: Uh, I, uh, I recommend everybody to check this out. This is of course, the JFK conspiracy, the secret plot to kill Kennedy and why it failed.

[00:44:56] So you do that. It is a spoiler in the title again. Once again, first Ghost and this, you’ve been spoiling it. Uh, it is on sale. Uh, depending on when you’re hearing this January 14th, it is out. It’s available on hardcover, ebook, audio book, any way that you get your books. Um, and you could tell Brad’s one of the greats.

[00:45:12] Uh, and I’m, uh, I’m such a fan. I’m so happy. Got to talk with you. I’m excited for people to read this book and, uh, yeah, well, thank you so much for being here, Brad.

[00:45:21] Brad Meltzer: Good to see you, brother.

[00:45:22] Paul Scheer: A big thank you for Brad for coming on and chatting with me. And before we announce our next movie, let me just say that we have polled our, How Did This Get Made audience.

[00:45:30] And we’ve asked them what their top three episodes were from this year. And the discord spoke, are you ready for the top three of 2024. This is like the howdy, but way simpler. Okay. They are coming in at number three, drum roll, Trap with Blakely Thornton, great episode. Number two, Troll two with Adam Scott, great episode.

[00:46:02] And the number one, the number one film of this past year is The Beekeeper. That’s right. By the way, I cannot argue with this list. It’s a great list. Uh, but if you’re like, Hey man, none of those are my favorites, then join our discord community and let us know what your favorite episode of 2024 was. All right.

[00:46:25] I’ll do it again. And we’ll see if it all changes anyway, the link to our discord is in our show notes, but just go to Discord.gg/HDTGM. And, uh, you can just jump right on in. Oh, by the way, if you are in front of a computer right now, Rob Hubel and I are starting a brand new show. It is called Enter The Dark Web, or actually just Dark Web.

[00:46:45] And, uh, you can follow us on YouTube. We are exploring the craziest things that we can find online. Whether it’s my mom, uh, accidentally tweeting with Elon Musk, uh, analyzing how much Richard Dawson kissed contestants on Family Feud, or putting the tips of so called experts into practice, we will be tackling it all.

[00:47:10] Enter the Dark Web on YouTube, follow, get on board with us. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. All right, now onto next week. We’re going to go from the wobble. Oh, I love the wobble. Philly, you are the best. All right. We are going from the wobble to the Megalopolis. That’s right. Next week we are watching Francis Ford Coppola’s Megalopolis starring Adam Driver.

[00:47:34] Now, here’s a short breakdown of the plot.

[00:47:36] “Megalopolis is a Roman epic set in an imagined, uh, modern America. Cesar Catalina is a genius artist who seeks to leap into a utopian idealistic future, but he’s at odds with the opposition.”

[00:47:48] And that’s Mayor Franklin Cicero. That’s Giancarlo Esposito. Um, Okay, Rotten Tomatoes gives this film a 45%.

[00:47:56] Johnny Olinsky from the New York Post says, “This movie is a zero star. It’s a wacko disaster.” Now I get that. I get all the critiques, but I’m gonna tell you something. In all the films I watched in 2024, would I say that Megalopolis is the best? No, but I would say it might be the most interesting. Yes. This movie is all over the spot, but I kind of felt myself really loving it too.

[00:48:24] So I, I, I ask of you maybe watch it. Like it’s gonna. More weird movies should be happening like this. I think. Ultimately, anyway, I, I’d offer you to give it a shot. Take a listen to the trailer.

[00:48:41] Trailer Audio: One filmmaker has always been ahead of his time.

[00:48:56] From visionary writer and director Francis Ford Coppola, comes an event nothing can prepare you for.

[00:49:05] Imagine today’s society as a branch of civilization about to reach a dead end. Is this way we’re living the only one that’s available to us?

[00:49:24] Paul Scheer: You can rent Megalopolis or, uh, you can wait a couple of days. It’s going to be coming to Peacock. I like, you know, look, love it. Hate it. Let it exist within you. Anyway, uh, if you can’t find it on Peacock, if you can’t find it on, uh, you know, Apple, then go check out your local public library.

[00:49:44] Hoopla, Canopy, Libby. Those are digital media services offered by your local library that allow you to consume movies, TV, music, audio books, eBooks, and comics for free. So get on that people. Okay. Um, now. You got your homework. Megalopolis, it is. And, uh, and with that, I say, a do, uh, that is all for Last Looks.

[00:50:07] Remember if you were listening to us on Apple podcasts or Spotify, please rate and review us. Please also make sure you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on. It helps us show and we appreciate us. You can visit us on social media @HDTGM and a big thank you to our producers, Codi Fisher, Matt Apodaca, Molly Reynolds, and our movie picking producer, Avaryll Halley, our associate producer, Jess Cisneros and our engineer, Casey Holford. We’ll see you next week for Megalopolis.