EP. 340.5 — Last Looks: Fifty Shades Darker (w/ Jake Johnson)

Paul Scheer [00:00:00] Career defeats, pommel horses and that’s what I call music. All this and more on today’s. How Did This Get Made Last Looks!

Music [00:00:15] [Intro Song]

Paul Scheer [00:00:30] Hello, all, you Kegel ball ringing hunchbacks. I’m your host, Paul Scheer. And welcome to How Did This Get Made Last Looks. Where you the listener get to voice your issues on 50 Shades Darker. And as always, I will reveal next week’s movie and later in the show, June– that’s right– June will be filling in for Jason on this week’s very special Just Chat with our first time How Did This Get Made guest Jake Johnson. That’s right. You know Jake from New Girl, Jurassic World and the Spider-Verse movies. Well, today he is here to talk about his brand new Call-In Advice podcast We’re Here to Help, but we’re also going to chat about a whole lot more, so make sure you stick around. June actually had a great time doing a Last Looks, so maybe Jason’s got some competition. Anyway, first things first, a big shout out to Quinn for that amazing opening theme. We love our themes. We love you Quinn. We would love to have more themes from Quinn, but not just from Quinn from you as well. So if you have a theme send it to HowDidThisGetMade@Earwolf.com. Keep them short. 15 to 20 seconds is best and people, if you’ve not preordered my book Joyful Recollections of Trauma, what are you waiting for? Seriously, please do. Why? Because it helps me. But secondly, because I think you’re going to love it. I got some great blurbs on the back. That’s right. Amy Poehler, Patton, Oswald, Ed Brubaker, Jane Fonda, Phoebe Robinson, Jessi Klein. They like it. So I think you’ll like it as well. And if you preorder the book, you can sign up to get a special access to exclusive area on my website where I have photos and videos and a bunch of weird stuff. Plus, you can also register to get a postcard. I’m only doing 3000. That was too much. Honestly, my hands hurt, but. But I’m getting there. I’m getting there. Over 1500 are out in the mail right now. Anyway, our European tour is only two weeks away. We still have some tickets left. We’ve also just announced our films. You can go to HDTGM.com to find out more about that. But seriously, come out, see us. We can’t wait to be in the UK and we can’t wait to be in Ireland. I’m looking forward to Belfast because that is where Flanny, who runs Largo, is from. And he says Belfast have some of the best audiences, so prove him right. Just got back from South by Southwest. Where How Did This Get Made won the best TV and Film Podcast award at the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was a shock. Truly did not think that we were going to win. I was in the corner doing a bit with the Workaholic guys when my name was called, and I was surprised. But you know what? I got to tell you. We, appreciate you, the audience listening to the show, it makes such a big difference, knowing that people are listening. Because if we didn’t have people listening, it would be, a really sad show. It would just be a show of me in my closet talking to myself, which, honestly, I’ve done weirder things. The two people I didn’t get to thank at that show because it was such a surprise. I didn’t have anything prepared. Was, Casey Holford and Rich Garcia, who are our amazing, and talented editors. They do all the post-production work, I don’t thanked I also thanked Avril Halley, who picks all of our movies. Here’s who else I didn’t thank: Jason and June, that’s right. Didn’t thank them as well. So you know what, people in a moment where I was surprised, I totally blanked on a lot of people’s names. But I want to thank iHeart right now, and I want to thank all of them as well, because they all make this podcast run. All right, let’s get into it. Last week, we talked at length about 50 Shades Darker, a movie that discord user Ellane Smith thinks could have been called “Twilight Breaking Yawn”. I love it, Ellane. You nailed it. You nailed it, Ellane. Anyway, we had questions about 50 Shades Darker and we might have even missed a few things. Here is your chance to set a straight fact. Check us if you will. It is now time for corrections and omissions.

Music [00:04:22] [Corrections and Omissions Theme]

Paul Scheer [00:04:35] Thank you, John Coen, for that awesome theme song. You are now officially part of the Coen Brothers. Because it’s spelled the same way. I don’t see that Coen Brothers spelling that much. All right, so let’s go to the discord. WhoGivesACluck writes, “I can’t believe that no one brought up that Anna accepted Christian’s proposal with a light up keychain that she had custom engraved to say yes in Comic Sans font. When I first watched this, I laughed so hard I had to get up and pace it out just to survive the moment. This kiosk has gift boxes and they do custom terrible engraving.” Well, first of all, I thought we did talk about that. But more to the point, I believe that the keychain already said yes. Like that was like an inspirational keychain. She didn’t have it engraved. But I do agree. The gift boxes at a kiosk like that, I lived in New York City. You’re lucky if, they have a bag. They don’t have a bag. I’ve never gotten a bag for them. Anyway, that was the most ridiculous thing in the film. And that’s saying a lot. Now, look, I know it’s not New York, it’s Seattle, whatever. But I don’t think Seattle kiosks have that either. Anyway, Rocket Wesker writes this, “How the hell did Christian’s former submissive Layla manage to break into his high rise condo that the movie described as a fortress? Did Christian give her ninja training? Sending her all over the world to spy on the enemies of the Grey industry? I mean, also, after Anna witnessed how Christian lobotomized Layla so much that she could be subdued with a mere hand gesture, Anna’s reaction was not one of horror, but rather mostly sad because she couldn’t give him what Layla offered. You know, instead of seeing the love of her life as a monster. That is fucked up.” Now, look, I don’t know if the books go into it. And yes, you are 100% right. That is fucked up. I didn’t even think about it. That he treated her like a dog and turned his hand. Although I felt like she was playing a game, I also feel like she was leading a full life, but then also went a little crazy. Anyway, I bet you, Layla got in there because they recognized her as being someone who used to visit his apartment. I don’t know if he gives his security people, like, these, submissives are no longer allowed here. You know, maybe he’s. He didn’t email the people working the door. I don’t know, somebody clarify it. Connor Dowling writes “Jason already touched on the Jeff Buckley song, but does anyone else notice that the characters seem to listen to decent music, whereas the soundtrack is mostly distracting, unsexy generic pop? For example, when Christian is working out, he’s listening to So Lonely by the Police and in 50 Shades Freed, Anastasia is listening to David Bowie in the kitchen and Christian plays Maybe I’m amazed by Paul McCartney on the piano, but every other song choice sounds like the music from Love Is Blind or Now That’s What I Call Music 2017.” Yeah, I don’t know what that is. I mean, I know why they can’t be on the soundtrack because they can’t afford it on the soundtrack. They could probably afford the needle drop in the movie, but then to actually put it on a another album that’s tremendously expensive. So that’s what I would imagine. I think they probably save money on the soundtrack. Also, I’m sure the people didn’t want them. I mean, it’s all cost. It’s all a cost thing. Make your own soundtracks on Spotify. That’s what I do. All right, let’s go to the phones. Oh, we got an Anna.

Listener [00:07:48] Hi Paul. Just wanted to give a little fun fact about 50 Shades Darker. Joel brought up how Anastasia’s associate asks what she should call her after she’s, like, promoted overnight to editor or whatever. Well, that whole bit of dialog between the two of them is actually taken directly from the last scene of Mike Nichols, 1988, classic movie Working Girl, which stars Dakota Johnson’s mother, Melanie Griffith. Nora Dunn asks her, like what the rules are and what she should call her. And Melanie Griffith, like, you can just call me Tess and you don’t have to get me coffee unless you’re getting some for yourself. And we’ll figure out the rest from them there. So, yeah, just like a cute little mother-daughter callback or whatever, that’s all. Thanks.

Paul Scheer [00:08:35] Yes, we did miss this, Anna. Or did we call it out again? I don’t remember what we cut out, but yes, I remember that. All right, caught that later. But you know what? Also, at the same time, it’s not like I have the Working Girl script. And while I love Mike Nichols, on the tip of my head. Not like, that’s like, it’s not like, Luke, I’m your father. But anyway, Lizard Breath actually adds in, “The scene in Working Girl illustrates how Melanie Griffith is different and will be a better boss than the ones that she had. In no way is Anastasia’s situation similar. Therefore, this scene is pretty meaningless to the story. So much so that I audibly said fuck you to 50 Shades for stealing a scene from a movie that I loved.” Yes, that was the big twist is that it doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a callback. It actually has worse implications in the way that they used it. So thank you Lizard Break. Thank you, Anna, for letting us, talk about something that we. I mean, look, there are so many things. I mean, we couldn’t barely touch upon them all. That’s why we’re here. Joanna from Philadelphia.

Listener [00:09:34] Hey Paul. I got your postcard. Thanks very much. So I wanted to comment on 50 Shades Darker about the pommel horse exercise scene. So apparently Jamie Dornan, has a certain talent with a pommel horse, and the, the director asked him, is there something interesting you can do, I guess gymnastics wise or exercise wise? And he said, well, this is like what I could do. So they wrote the pommel horse scene into the movie. Thought you’d like to know. Love the show. Bye.

Paul Scheer [00:10:02] Okay. Now, this is interesting. Thank you, Joanna. See, he was a pommel horse expert. Which, look, if you got the talented person, you got to figure out how to get it in there. You know what? I want to continue this, pommel horse discussion because MiGs says, “You know, a lifelong gymnast here, he 1,000% did not do a gymnastics skill on that pommel horse.” Okay, Joanna, here we go. A little fighting back and forth. “The planche that he does is not part of the official gymnastics code of points. Even on the floor exercises where planche is are common and definitely not on the pommel horse. Not knocking his or anyone’s ability to showcase some strength. But why on earth would they include a piece of official gymnastics equipment, if he’s only going to do that?” And you know what, MiGs? I think the answer is Gymkata 2 starring Jamie Dornan. Let’s get that made. Anyway, so many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one winner. And, you know, honestly, I want to give that winner to somebody who deserves it and somebody we just talked about. That’s right, MiGs, you are winning because you brought your Olympic knowledge. You brought your gymnast knowledge. And you know what? You get this amazing song from the Action Jackson 5. Hit it.

Music [00:11:20] [Winner’s Song]

Paul Scheer [00:11:40] Thank you Action Jackson 5 for that song. Remember, if you want to submit an alt movie tagline or chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode, hit us up at the discord at Discord.gg/HTDGM or call us at 619-PAULASK. That’s PAUL ASK. All right. Coming up, Jake Johnson joins June and I for a chat. Plus, as always, we will reveal next week’s movie. We’ll be right back.

Paul Scheer [00:12:05] Welcome back. By now, I’m sure you’ve noticed that every Monday we rerelease old has made episodes back into our feed. This week’s Matinee Monday was Blues Brothers 2000, and next week’s will be Mortal Kombat. So keep on checking out those replays of classic episodes every Monday. All right it is now time to welcome June and Jake to the show for a little Just chat John Astonish play us in.

Music [00:12:26] [Just Chat Theme]

Paul Scheer [00:12:35] Well this is a this is a first because June you don’t normally join me for a Last Looks.

June Diane Raphael [00:12:41] And you know Paul, I was thinking like, I’m so glad our guest is coming on because I’d never do this. Jason is always here with you. Yes. And I feel safe knowing that our special guest is arriving because I know I wouldn’t feel okay being on this show, without them. So I feel so much better. I don’t know what goes on here. All I see in your calendar is your recording Last Looks. And I know Jason Mantzoukas is a part of it, so.

Paul Scheer [00:13:12] All right, well, without any further ado, let’s bring on our guest, Jake Johnson. Jake, welcome to Last Looks with Paul and June.

June Diane Raphael [00:13:19] So glad you’re here, Jake.

Jake Johnson [00:13:20] Well, I’m glad to be here. And I’m glad you’re here. June. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen either of your faces. So it’s been a long time.

June Diane Raphael [00:13:28] It really has. It has been too long. And time has been so strange to keep track of. Truly. Like, from the pandemic to the strikes. I’m like, I’m time is melting before my very eyes.

Jake Johnson [00:13:41] I also think kids confuse time because.

Paul Scheer [00:13:44] Yes.

Jake Johnson [00:13:45] A lot of nights you can’t go out and then you go. The first day you go out, it’s been like eight months and you’re like, what’s up everybody? Everybody else has been home most of their lives, yeah? Doing early bedtimes and homework. Yeah?

June Diane Raphael [00:13:56] Jake, Paul and I have tickets to go see Madonna on Thursday night. And we have found out that she goes on at 10 p.m.

Jake Johnson [00:14:05] Pass.

June Diane Raphael [00:14:05] And I am so fraught. So I don’t know if I can go.

Jake Johnson [00:14:11] You can’t, June. You could start, and then at a certain point, you have to go I’m loving the show. I’m leaving. I’m not stay in the whole time.

June Diane Raphael [00:14:22] Paul, we really have to make a decision.

Paul Scheer [00:14:24] We got to talk about it. We got to talk about it. I want to find out, because my friend is going, tonight, and I feel like LA makes you leave at a certain time. You have to get off stage at a certain time. So I wonder if she can pull that off at 10:00.

June Diane Raphael [00:14:40] That’s true for the Hollywood Bowl. But I don’t know if that’s true.

Paul Scheer [00:14:42] I thought Taylor Swift had to get off at 11:15 when she did the Eras tour, but maybe that’s because outdoors. I don’t know.

Jake Johnson [00:14:48] I think Madonna is going to pull her Bruce move her Prince move and show everybody that she can still rock until 1:45 a.m. and when everybody’s cheering, she’s going to bring her old ass out for one more.

Paul Scheer [00:15:03] You know it. I mean, this tour from just from a vantage point, I haven’t been fully engaged. It seems like it’s a hot mess, but really fun. Like every night there’s some sort of snafu. They’re dragging her across the stage in a chair, and the chair. She falls.

Jake Johnson [00:15:22] Madonna’s gotten older, and I’m not insulting Madonna. No, but Madonna has been playing this game at a high level since I was seven.

Paul Scheer [00:15:31] Yes, Madonna also took some time off and is now doing like a best. I mean, this is a best of tour, so she’s trying to really, you know, it’s hard to switch it off.

Jake Johnson [00:15:42] Cher kind of did this. I remember Cher had one last great march where she was dating a younger guy. She was in like sheer clothing. She was dancing her ass off in Vegas. There were magicians. I remember being like, Cher show. I’m hearing it’s good stuff. And then after that, she’s like, enough’s enough. This is getting out of control.

Paul Scheer [00:16:03] I call it, I’m calling it, I’m done.

Jake Johnson [00:16:05] Well, you know what? It’s a wild addiction to keep performing after a certain point. What are you chasing, girl? What’s up on that stage?

June Diane Raphael [00:16:14] And by the way, if it’s money, you know that.

Jake Johnson [00:16:17] It can’t be.

June Diane Raphael [00:16:18] I don’t think it can be. But you never know. Like, I’m always shocked to find out that people who have what I perceived to be a honestly, morally reprehensible amount of money, okay, like those people are still after some more.

Jake Johnson [00:16:34] Yeah, but I’ll tell you what’s really wild about some of those people. Some people aren’t as rich as you think. When I heard that Johnny Depp, this was long before the case. When Johnny Depp, I heard something where someone said that he was going bankrupt and I thought, how could Johnny Depp go bankrupt? And they said, well, he bought an island and he fully staffed it. You go, right? And he’s not renting out. It’s not like an investment.

Paul Scheer [00:16:57] No, that is just owning it. This is the problem. Old Hollywood has created this weird disconnect. Because back then, you know, they were. I remember hearing this story like oh, the first season of Will and Grace, the the ratings are so good. NBC bought everybody a porsche. Right. You know.

Jake Johnson [00:17:16] After the pilot of Friends, they took them all on a jet to Vegas and gave them all ten grand to gamble.

June Diane Raphael [00:17:20] Those days are over, my friends. Those days are now over.

Jake Johnson [00:17:24] You book a new show on NBC, you take a Greyhound to Reno and you gamble with your own money.

June Diane Raphael [00:17:29] But yeah, you send them presents, like you take care of the executives. So those days are over.

Paul Scheer [00:17:38] But I think some people got caught in the middle of it. Again. Another person is owning islands and castles. Nick Cage, who I did a movie with talking with him, and he was talking about how he slimmed down, you know, sell a couple castles. Like a couple. Not all, just a couple.

Jake Johnson [00:17:54] Well, the LA that our generation moved to, the one the town that I came out here for is very different than the town that we all live in now. And there has been a massive adjustment. I really believed the town I came to where I would wear a beanie in a headshot. I’d be going like this. And then the next thing you know, there would be some executive that would give me a bucket of gold. I would have multiple mansions, and that’s how it worked. And you’re like, oh, you’ve got to like, constantly grind, be a business person. You got to work, you got a hustle, and you’re like, oh, this makes more sense. The other fantasy didn’t make sense.

June Diane Raphael [00:18:29] That’s absolutely true. And what I what I’m realizing more and more is that everybody’s losing out on jobs. Like, you never get to a point in this career where you’re not upset you didn’t get what another person got. And knowing that kind of gave me a lot of relief. Like when you see actual A-list movie stars, like sad that that someone else was chosen or they got that project or that book or whatever. And it’s like, man, it never ends.

Jake Johnson [00:18:58] I’ll tell you the other thing that’s happened is the goal, at least for me, has seemed to really change. The old idea of like, oh, but you know, even when you say like the part I’m like, in what project?

Paul Scheer [00:19:11] Right.

June Diane Raphael [00:19:11] Yeah. That’s true.

Jake Johnson [00:19:11] I’ve got friends who have like, I’m like, you’re going to go do that with that cool person. That’s the dream. And then because I’m a little rat, I go, what are they paying?

June Diane Raphael [00:19:20] What are they paying and what are the hours?

Jake Johnson [00:19:22] And the hours are massive and the pay is scale. And I go Oh, so three months away from my kids to literally make a little bit of cash.

June Diane Raphael [00:19:33] Yeah. Or maybe break even.

Jake Johnson [00:19:34] And then guess what. So then you get to go to a film festival and be like fifth away from center and be like, it was amazing being with my new brothers and sisters. And then God forbid, the movie gets killed and everybody goes like, it was really the worst thing on planet Earth. You then have to go, like, now everyone goes like distance. Distance. Yeah. So like, I didn’t spend three months in Bulgaria in a village like a fucking asshole. Why would I do that? I didn’t even have any fun.

June Diane Raphael [00:19:58] I didn’t have any fun. And also, like I’ve always said, I always said to Paul, like, sometimes with the indie film and stuff, it feels like I pay good money to act.

Jake Johnson [00:20:06] Yeah.

June Diane Raphael [00:20:08] Pay good money.

Jake Johnson [00:20:09] And June, the people watching it nowadays, 95 people total.

Paul Scheer [00:20:17] Yeah. That’s it. We could be flyering and getting more people to be watching it. I will say.

June Diane Raphael [00:20:25] Anyway, I’m sure this is super relatable and everybody’s nodding their head a lot.

Paul Scheer [00:20:29] But I will say this, that Jake, you directed this movie, that I love this Self-Reliance. You, like you’ve been making all these really interesting, like indie films like. And I feel like you’ve been you’ve had your hand at either, like, co-writing them and I. This is the first time you directed though, right?

Jake Johnson [00:20:48] The first time I did a feature.

Paul Scheer [00:20:50] Yeah. And, and it’s really great. And you should check it out. It’s on Hulu. But that’s at least you can at least do that. Then you feel like, well, I’ve done the whole I’ve done that.

June Diane Raphael [00:21:01] You’ve done everything.

Jake Johnson [00:21:01] As. Yeah, but as three people and we’ve all known it. When you act in television, you and you’re an actor for hire a lot, and we’ve all been the ones where there’s a built in project and you just come in to be like the cashier who, you know, has a no story but has to work a lot. And you realize that some directors are excellent and, you know, right away, like, while you’re really getting the most out of all of us and then some directors are just terrible. And then you look at their IMDb and you’re like, they don’t even have credits. And you go like, you know, not to be an asshole, but I’m ten years older than you. I’ve got 10,000 more hours than you. Perhaps we can do this. And they go like, I hear you, but I got to trust my gut and I’m like, you gut’s 28 years old. Your gut doesn’t know.

June Diane Raphael [00:21:45] You don’t have one.

Jake Johnson [00:21:46] You’ve never done it. It’s not about a gut. It’s about experience. So I wanted to just try everything out to see what felt the best. Yeah, because it is a feeling out business now and that it’s this new world. It’s like, who cares? You do it. If it recoups financially, you get to make more. If it doesn’t, then try something else.

Paul Scheer [00:22:05] Or truthfully, just make something that you like, like that you like. That doesn’t have to be that expensive either. You don’t have to do anything that like, you know, that loses. Not like loses, but like it could just be it make it easier to make it a success, you know? It’s very hard right now to get people on board with stuff, you know. And I mean, oh, man, you know, and this is and I’m also excited, in addition to all the great stuff that you’re doing and, and you’re in this Oscar nominated movie, which are the best movies. I love these Spider-Man movies, but I will say that, yeah, I love your podcast. You have a new podcast as well, this podcast. Who is this guy that you’re hosting with? Because, Gareth Reynolds. Yeah. So it’s called We’re Here to Help. Explain how you guys got hooked up and doing this together.

Jake Johnson [00:22:52] So, Gareth Reynolds, when I moved to Los Angeles, I lived two blocks from the old Improv Olympic. Yeah, this was pre UCB coming to L.A..

Paul Scheer [00:23:01] This is like you’re living off a Hollywood Boulevard at that point.

Jake Johnson [00:23:03] Yeah, I was on Selma and Hollywood.

Paul Scheer [00:23:06] Love it.

June Diane Raphael [00:23:06] I was on. Yeah, I was on Fuller and.

Paul Scheer [00:23:10] Fuller. I was on Fuller. Fuller and Franklin.

Jake Johnson [00:23:12] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Living right.

June Diane Raphael [00:23:14] Oooh.

Jake Johnson [00:23:16] Living right.

June Diane Raphael [00:23:17] And by the way, Paul and I never experienced LA before UCB opened. So like, I don’t even know what that time was. We came out here when the theater opened.

Jake Johnson [00:23:25] Yeah, well, there was a whole group of the UCBers who came at one point. Before you guys, before UCB came, it was a it was a different vibe because. Yeah, well, because you had the Groundlings, which everybody knew. But if you’re someone like me who likes to play more grounded and I don’t like doing big characters, I was like, I don’t know. And then the improv Olympic was more just they had a bar there. So in Chicago, it has a lot of respect in the, the one in LA kind of was just a theater with a bar.

Paul Scheer [00:24:01] So the the crazy thing about that was they cut themselves off at the knees because no one that was under 21 could go into improv Olympic. So that really hurt their audience.

Jake Johnson [00:24:10] But it was a party place before that, which it was really fun. And Gareth was one of the people at that theater. Okay, so Steve Berg. Gareth. There was a group I met in that community.

June Diane Raphael [00:24:22] I love that.

Jake Johnson [00:24:23] Yeah, and they were really sweet. They all got me my first, commercial agent. We all got our first theatrical together. We had formed, like, a little team, and Gareth does a show called The Dollop, and for about eight years, he’s been trying to get me to do podcasts with him. Yeah, I couldn’t quite wrap my head around him. And then he was really explaining how it is a direct to audience world, which is more exciting. And doing press for a movie like Self-Reliance. I’m going out and I’m trying to connect to the audience, but there are like three PR people in the way at all times. Or I need to go on somebody else’s show or go to New York and go to like, you know, Good Morning America and have six minutes to go, like “wonderful to see you. So let me tell you this in two minutes.”

Paul Scheer [00:25:06] Yes.

Jake Johnson [00:25:06] And he’s like or create your own, have your own base and then they will go to see the movies. But you’re directly talking. From your home, from your home. And so we started doing it and I was shocked how much fun it was.

June Diane Raphael [00:25:20] Isn’t it the most fun? I mean, you know, podcasts, built podcasts built our home, podcasts are, we’re made of podcasts over here.

Paul Scheer [00:25:30] But there is a there’s a similar thing with podcasting and like those shows like UCB shows or improv Olympic shows that it’s you’re here, you’re having fun, you have this connection. There’s something slightly disposable about it. Yeah, it’s of the moment. And we’re, you know, it’s like you’re just kind of capturing this competition.

June Diane Raphael [00:25:48] What I will say, though, I think that people consume podcasts in a much different or at least I do, where the interaction is so personal because you don’t have a visual reference. I mean, I don’t know if you guys filmed yours and released them. We don’t. And very intentionally because it’s it is it’s more connected to not be able to see the person and to like, literally have them in your ears, in your brain, in your mind. Yeah. And it’s just a different level of connection. I also think for women it’s like really powerful.

Paul Scheer [00:26:20] I will say though, the way that you tape it, that setup at, it’s at head gum, right? You guys tape it. It is a it’s built to look a little bit more like a set, I like that.

June Diane Raphael [00:26:30] Oh, so you have the. Okay, so we’re I guess we, we are old school that way.

Jake Johnson [00:26:34] We only did audio for the first whatever months. And then a guy named Andrew Santino called me and said.

June Diane Raphael [00:26:41] Know him, love him.

Jake Johnson [00:26:42] And I didn’t know, I did his podcast. He watched ours and he’s like, just do this. And he’s like, just see. So our visual, our YouTube, we do shitty numbers. It’s kind of nothing. We haven’t cracked it. We don’t really know what it is. But, most of our listeners still come, through Spotify or Apple. But what’s fun about going in person is you get a different level of anxiety before a taping, and it does feel like you’re doing a show.

Paul Scheer [00:27:07] Right.

June Diane Raphael [00:27:08] That’s cool.

Jake Johnson [00:27:09] We realized like our energy is 10% higher because they’ll go like, you guys ready? And then all of a sudden we put on like radio voices for no reason. We’ll be like, all right. And we’re going, there’s no audience. But like, you’re there and there’s something.

June Diane Raphael [00:27:23] Listen.

Jake Johnson [00:27:23] I want to do a mix for us as we like, eventually really land on what ours is.

June Diane Raphael [00:27:27] Listen, I think we have been told we should do it, right, Paul? I mean.

Paul Scheer [00:27:32] We do live shows, we do only live shows. And that’s the same idea, that same similar idea.

June Diane Raphael [00:27:37] Yeah. But I also just think that to get you and me and Jason all together, to do something like that in person on video would be difficult.

Jake Johnson [00:27:50] What I want to say, Paul, about something you said about the early days of the UCB or the IO type shows. Yeah, I’ve really connected with that in doing this, and it feels like I had a show called The Midwesterners with my buddy Oliver Raleigh in New York. And yeah, we were at UCB and we used to hand out flyers in Time Square.

Paul Scheer [00:28:10] Yes.

Jake Johnson [00:28:11] It was, we really, it was everything. And every single audience member mattered because you’d be like, all right, we’re in surf reality. We got like 19 people, dude. We got 19 people. And then you enter our business and if you’re lucky enough, you have a machine, and then you don’t even know the numbers. And so there’s become a disconnect between, at least for me personally, what I’m doing and the audience I care more about like, what did the town think? Like what’s the buzz? And I’ll go like, how’s the Rotten Tomatoes numbers? I don’t give a fuck about what the critics say, per se, but like, what’s the spin?

Paul Scheer [00:28:46] Yeah, we want to see.

Jake Johnson [00:28:47] All this bullshit. I’ve totally forgotten what do people think of the work I’m trying to do? I’m like, man I fucking flipped it.

Paul Scheer [00:28:57] But it’s a tricky thing. Yeah, but it’s it because you forget it. Like, I still perform live a lot. And I love going home after a bad show. Like, not a bad show. For myself, a bad show, like, oh, I didn’t step up. Because I still want to feel that. Like, on some level, I want to feel good shows too. But like, there are some moments I’m like, oh, right.

June Diane Raphael [00:29:18] Yeah, you get your ass handed to you.

Paul Scheer [00:29:20] I can’t just like, wing it all, like, you know, and like I’m not trying to, but it’s like. But it is. It’s like you can have these ups and downs and I love these people who perform. I remember, like, one night. Will Ferrell, came to UCB and he was like, hey, I just want to run this show I wrote. And it was the George Bush Show he did Off-Broadway, but he didn’t tell anyone. He just basically showed up. So can I take over your slot? We came out for our improv show. We said, hey, we normally do improv, but tonight we got something special. Here’s Will Ferrell. And then he just did this show that he wrote, like within two weeks with a handful of people there, and then they turned it into the show and it’s, oh, it’s just love that he’s like creating. And I’ve been watching like Adam Sandler work on this, Netflix special, new Netflix special. And every time I see him, like, pop up at Largo, he’s doing 15 minutes of brand new material. And it’s, like, shocking. It’s shocking. And it’s like, oh, it’s so funny. But you see, like, oh, it is fun to connect and and because we can get so far away from it sometimes because it’s like, I just want to go home. I just want to like hibernate because I’ve been working 12 hours, I’ve been in Bulgaria.

Jake Johnson [00:30:26] But you also forget sometimes I also think like with. So Self-Reliance was the first movie where I got to hear everything, essentially. So a lot of times I either wrote, produced or acted. And then there are certain things they keep from actors because they treat us like baby kings and queens, so that there’s certain stuff we don’t hear. I thought the most interesting part of the process was when we, like, tested it in Burbank with strangers. We hired a company, and the audience described exactly what they thought the movie was. And I got to say, after a couple of reading those, written things, I finally knew what my movie was. I knew what I wanted my movie to be as, like, an artist with my, like, scarf and beret on. It’s so cool, you know? And, like, never, never listen to the audience. You’re the genius. They’re just there. That, like, 90s mentality. I had that, but then when the audience tells you, you go, well I didn’t land that fucking plane. So they think it’s this. And I’m like, man, I wish I could now go back and have like X amount of money and recut some stuff and then reshoot two scenes because they’re telling me what the movie should be in these moments and what they loved about it. And that to me, really woke me up in a way I didn’t expect. Because I’d always heard of, like, Judd and those guys always testing their movies. And I never liked the idea of it. I didn’t like the idea of a movie being by committee or being by an audience. Yeah, but in directing I thought, like, I don’t know if I if I get the keys to the car again, if I do something, I definitely want to test it, hear what do people think, and leave some budget to go back and tweak.

Paul Scheer [00:31:59] I will say that in my experience and things that I’ve directed and things. I’ve screened a lot of stuff and when I can, sometimes I do that UCB, sometimes I do the places.

Jake Johnson [00:32:08] Well I did that. But but the problem with that, yeah, the problem with screening because I did that is I mostly screened it and it would be at like party over here or at a friend’s. Like super hip people in the business who knew. And their take was excellent. And they were like we see what you’re going for. And then you put it in front of a crowd. And they were like, we didn’t see what you were going for. But here’s what we thought.

June Diane Raphael [00:32:30] It’s so funny though, because like, I remember working with Ass Backwards when Casey and I, when our movie got into Sundance, we and we sort of had to rush the post process to get into Sundance and why, why do indie movies need to be color corrected and mix and everything to premiere. So that’s a whole other like conversation. But process was a bit rushed at the end. And, you know, we there’s so much buzz about our movie coming in and then we screened it for like the film fest of all fuckin nerds and every screening like one was worse than the last. People were walking out. I was like, I was like. It was fucking hellish.

Jake Johnson [00:33:15] Hurts so bad.

June Diane Raphael [00:33:16] Oh, it was literally like the darkest.

Jake Johnson [00:33:19] You never recover.

June Diane Raphael [00:33:20] In some ways I’m very grateful because I’m like, oh, the worst professional experience of my life happened when I was 25. Yeah. You know, and so it’s like I’m like, try to hurt me. Please try to hurt me. Like I have already watched, basically Harvey Weinstein and everyone walk out of our movie in like, tropes. So it’s it was like it was crazy. But the end of it, you know, they do that one public screening in Salt Lake City, right? And Paul had left at that point and I was like, I want to go home today. I cannot, I can’t take another day. Reviews were just vicious, vicious. Because it was a hard comedy. And I think also at that time, you know, whenever it was like there is a feeling of like, you women are trying to make us laugh? Like, go fuck yourselves. People were angry. Then we went to the public screening. Again, I tried to get out of it. I wanted to go home that day. And Casey was like, no, let’s see our movie with like, real people. And I was like, okay. We go. And it killed.

Jake Johnson [00:34:31] Yeah. That’s nice.

June Diane Raphael [00:34:31] And it was like it was so important. I was like, wow, these are these are not film festival goers. They are, who are ready with their take. This is an audience of people who want to be entertained. So, you know.

Jake Johnson [00:34:48] Everyone’s got all these expectations, but what you want is people to leave the movie and go, I liked that. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I gave you 90 minutes of my time. I’m busy. You didn’t let me down, fat boy. And you go, good.

Paul Scheer [00:35:03] Give me what I want from this experience. I want to be scared. I want to laugh. I want to cry, whatever it is. Boom, boom, boom, boom.

Jake Johnson [00:35:10] I kind of had a big realization doing this movie, and it’s really what led me to the podcast and pushing the podcast and being excited about it. But you have like the ideas in your head of who you want to be as a creative and what that means. And then as I’ve been doing it, I’ve realized more with each project we’re doing. It’s like you’re opening a restaurant, so if you’re starting a podcast, it’s a restaurant. If you’re doing a movie, especially a TV show, you’re opening a restaurant. If people don’t want to eat at your restaurant, you’re not a genius chef. And that doesn’t mean in ten years they’ll realize that your hamburgers were delicious. You’ll be closed down, you goober. People need to want to eat there now. Now you can do it your own way. You can say like I put the cheese before the marinara sauce. Like, ooh, funky. How does it taste, asshole? If it tastes good, great.

Paul Scheer [00:36:06] And by the way, there’s also the other. There’s the flip side of that too, which is like, sometimes the food tastes good and no one goes to a restaurant and that’s. And you know what?

Jake Johnson [00:36:14] That’s right.

Paul Scheer [00:36:14] That happens. And that’s and that happens too. I will say that there’s a I read this book that Rick Rubin wrote just about the act of creation, and he was like, you have to be okay with whatever plan that you had for your work that once it goes out into the world, it’s theirs. And you can’t tell them that they’re wrong. Yes. And you can’t. You can’t show them what they saw differently. It’s like it’s theirs. And it’s and you have to just be comfortable. It’s like. It’s like if you’ve ever, like June, June and I have this situation. Like you go back to a house that you grew up in. That house is sold. New people live there. They’re not going to appreciate the detailing, the things that you had in your house. It’s it’s forever changed. And you have to be like that. That’s what they did. They saw something else. And and you just have to like, embrace it. And I feel like that’s a it’s a good lesson for like create without like yeah, I created something I really liked and people thought it was this or people thought it was that, you know, it’s like the fact that like, like David Fincher is so upset, he’s like, he’s like, Fight Club isn’t supposed to be like for MAGA guys. Like, this isn’t what I meant. I didn’t want to do that.

Jake Johnson [00:37:20] Sorry pal.

Paul Scheer [00:37:21] There it is. It’s done.

Jake Johnson [00:37:24] Going off of that which which was wild was. So I took my movie. We went to South by Southwest with it, and I had a different experience, June, in that for the first three quarters, the audience was loving it and I was like, oh fuck yeah. Like it’s, I was getting bigger laughs. I was with my brother, but my idea was the entire third act, the last like 20 minutes. I was going to send the audience down, a real mindfuck. And if it were, because tonally I like when things shift a lot. Yeah. So I thought, like, you’re going to be involved in this, like really weirdo comedy. Who the hell knows what’s going on? And then you’re going to get spiraled into darkness. And there was a change in the air in the theater for the negative. And I was sitting there and I was like, as it was happening, I, my brother looked at me because I was with my brother and he’s like, it’s good, man. And I was like, you’re wrong. I missed. So I then had like a full on Hulu came in and bought it. They came in aggressive. We sold. Everybody was positive. I wouldn’t do the celebratory dinners. I went back and I got I raised extra money from MRC. We then reshot. We did two extra days. I got to reopen the edit because, yes, once you’re done, done, it belongs to them. But what I really liked about that and what I like about the podcast, and we said it in the last episode, email in what you’re not liking about our format.

Paul Scheer [00:38:44] Yeah.

Jake Johnson [00:38:44] I was like, it’s this is a choose your own adventure world. And I don’t view it as content. I view it more like an old midwesterner show. If you guys think it’s getting too much like this, let us know. It’s not set in stone. There’s no big studio. We don’t work for some billionaire who gives us a ton of gold. We’re doing ads for fucking Rocket Money. Who cares?

Paul Scheer [00:39:04] Well, you can have fun. You can have fun and change things. And I feel like that’s like, that’s the other thing too, is like not getting caught up in anything. Like, you try new things, sometimes it works, sometimes it won’t.

Jake Johnson [00:39:14] And then you do it and you go like this. The audience wasn’t into this and neither were we. We never need to do it again. But we didn’t take ten meetings on it. Yes, we did an episode of it. It didn’t work.

June Diane Raphael [00:39:24] I didn’t get on a zoom about it.

Jake Johnson [00:39:26] I didn’t hear nine opinions.

June Diane Raphael [00:39:28] I didn’t join call and I didn’t join audio. I didn’t start video.

Paul Scheer [00:39:37] Now, I think it’s so it’s just fun. It’s fun to be able to mess around. What we’re doing right now, this whole thing. And by the way, you should be subscribing, liking, listening to We’re Here to Help. And by the way, you’re not just going to be listening to you guys give great advice. You may actually change people’s lives. They might call because I what I love about this idea that you do is you have no vested interest when you go when you are a friend and you go, hey, look, I have to ask you a question X, Y, and Z, I know you, we have a relationship. It’s like, but if you’re if a stranger is calling in, you have no. I can just be cavalier. That sounds stupid. That’s dumb. Yeah. It’s not going to work. See you later. And it’s like. And it’s it’s the purest form of advice. You’re not couching it.

June Diane Raphael [00:40:28] I know a lot of people, a lot of women in my life this year announced as their New Year’s resolution that they were no longer giving advice. Which I thought was interesting because sometimes I think there are people who give advice because they can’t sit in someone else’s pain.

Jake Johnson [00:40:52] I can’t sit in somebody else’s pain.

June Diane Raphael [00:40:53] Right. Like, I want to fix it.

Paul Scheer [00:40:55] Yeah.

June Diane Raphael [00:40:56] But it is very different though, for someone to ask you for advice. That to me is the best feeling in the world. When someone sends texts and say, can I ask for your advice. Now, if they text and say, can I pick your brain, that’s a no. But if they say. That’s a no.

Jake Johnson [00:41:14] That feels like, June. You’re getting mad at wording, no?

June Diane Raphael [00:41:17] No.

Jake Johnson [00:41:18] Don’t like the way they phrase it?

June Diane Raphael [00:41:20] Pick your brain? Pick your brain to me is like, I want at least a half an hour on the phone with you, right? And I want to shoot the shit. I might even ask for this to be in person.

Jake Johnson [00:41:31] That’s a pass.

June Diane Raphael [00:41:32] And that’s gonna be a pass. And it’s like, I feel like we’re talking around and you might not. You might not recognize my authority here. You’re asking directly for my advice?

Jake Johnson [00:41:45] Recognize my authority is shocking in that, Paul, you let that go, which was even more shocking.

Paul Scheer [00:41:52] Oh, no I’m here.

Jake Johnson [00:41:54] That’s not a normal statement. A friend going can I pick your brain. Do you recognize my authority? No, lady, I was asking your advice on if I should take an acting job with a director you worked with.

Paul Scheer [00:42:06] Now, let me tell you, because we, you know, we have Jake for a limited period of time here.

June Diane Raphael [00:42:10] And this is this is not a, you know, obviously, a podcast about me giving advice.

Paul Scheer [00:42:14] I just want to say that you pulled off, you pulled off one of the best, one of the best things that I love so much. He’s in your movie, but, like, Bobon yet? Bobon on your show, which is amazing. You have had Jillian Bell on your show. You’ve had, you’ve had Damon Wayans Jr on your show. You had Zach Woods. You got a cavalcade of great guests. Josh Peck.

Jake Johnson [00:42:35] Would love to have you both.

June Diane Raphael [00:42:36] I’d love to be asked.

Paul Scheer [00:42:37] Yeah, I’d love to do it.

June Diane Raphael [00:42:39] Okay, great.

Paul Scheer [00:42:40] Well, there it is.

Jake Johnson [00:42:41] June, you’re gonna. You’re gonna run the show in a comedic way. Before you even ask the question. You’ve got a lot of nerve emailing into the show.

June Diane Raphael [00:42:53] Well Paul knows. Someone in our life that Paul and I both know. Actually really abused our time.

Paul Scheer [00:42:58] Although I did say after 30 minutes into that call, I said, I don’t understand what you’re asking me.

June Diane Raphael [00:43:03] 30 minutes.

Paul Scheer [00:43:04] 30 minutes in because I didn’t understand. And then that that helped him because he goes, I don’t know what I am asking. So I think it.

Jake Johnson [00:43:10] So figure it out and come back.

Paul Scheer [00:43:11] Yeah. Figure it out and come back.

Jake Johnson [00:43:13] But going to this show and advice and that as a perfect example, when we experiment and we say the show’s an experiment, our first month would be like some heavy calls and you would be like, I’m thinking of going through a divorce. And I would go like, I hear ya.

Paul Scheer [00:43:27] Yeesh.

Jake Johnson [00:43:28] And then we realized, no, these need to be prepped by our producer, Kevin.

June Diane Raphael [00:43:33] Yes, we need Kevin.

Jake Johnson [00:43:35] We want dumb ones that mean a lot to you. So our thing means you need to condense what it is. Know what you’re asking so that when I say, okay, so we got to set up what’s your question. Because if it’s vague, they eat your time, it’s boring for the audience. It’s that guy calling you for 30 minutes. In the end you go, what is it?

June Diane Raphael [00:43:57] And you know some people, I don’t know if Kevin uses this scale, but some people are energy vampires.

Jake Johnson [00:44:03] Sure.

June Diane Raphael [00:44:04] And they’ll take and they’ll take your energy. And it’s not about what they want. It’s about just. They want your energy. Yes, yes. And then other people will fill you up. You know, I feel filled up from this conversation with you. I love it and Paul, but that’s not always the case, you know. And you got to be wary.

Paul Scheer [00:44:22] All right, so that your your your assignment. If you’re listening right now.

Jake Johnson [00:44:28] That’s so funny, June. Just that you’re mad at. Everything is the act out.

Paul Scheer [00:44:32] I mean, it is truly the best part.

Jake Johnson [00:44:35] It should be the end of an act of. “And that’s true of how I feel right now.”

Paul Scheer [00:44:45] We’re Here to Help is available wherever you get your podcasts. Please make sure if you listen on Apple, you are following you rate, you review. Say what you like about it if you get into it and, you know, help them out.

June Diane Raphael [00:44:54] And you know, Paul, I will say to our listeners like I, you know, I don’t like most podcasts, I don’t care for them. And I’m excited to hear this. The only podcasts I listen to usually are True Crime. And I’m I’m feeling like the actually true crime is bringing my vibrations down.

Jake Johnson [00:45:12] Try our show, June.

June Diane Raphael [00:45:13] Thank you, I will.

Jake Johnson [00:45:13] Don’t try it episode one.

June Diane Raphael [00:45:16] Okay.

Jake Johnson [00:45:16] Try the most recent and go the opposite way.

Paul Scheer [00:45:19] This is what I recommend too. I recommend because my whole theory is this. Ultimately, if you’re talking about television, if you’re talking about podcast, yeah, it gets better.

Jake Johnson [00:45:30] Yes.

Paul Scheer [00:45:31] You don’t want to, you don’t need to start. Yeah. It’s like pilots are simply like, we did it. We completed this thing like let’s go forward. I do that all the time, as a matter of fact, because I get caught up in it two, I, I’ve recut old episodes after because, like, it’s still there. Why not just clean it up a little.

June Diane Raphael [00:45:48] God bless you for doing that.

Paul Scheer [00:45:49] I mean, How Did This Get Made is a constant, work in progress. Unspooled is too. I like it because it’s like, well, if it’s going to exist, it’s going to exist.

Jake Johnson [00:45:57] Make it better.

Paul Scheer [00:45:58] Make it better. Hulu, is where you can find Self-Reliance. And this is Jake. And this is.

June Diane Raphael [00:46:04] This is Jake.

Jake Johnson [00:46:06] Great talking to you both.

June Diane Raphael [00:46:07] Go watch him. Listen to him. Consume him in whatever way you can.

Paul Scheer [00:46:11] Thank you, Jake, for chatting with us. Go subscribe and listen to Jake’s podcast We’re Here to Help wherever you get your podcasts. All right. It is finally time to announce our next movie. Next week we’ll be going from sexy flings to cartoon g-strings. That’s right, we are keeping the sexy going as we watched the 2011 Danish animated adventure Ronal the Barbarian. Instead of giving you a breakdown of the plot, I’m just going to read you the movie’s tagline, which is “Babes, balls and muscles in 3D for the whole family.” Anyway, Rotten Tomatoes does not have any reviews for this film, so we turn to Letterbox user Silver, who writes, “I kept a bucket next to me the entire time while watching this, just in case I needed to throw up or hit myself with it.” Perfect review. Let’s listen to the trailer for Ronal the Barbarian.

Trailer Audio [00:47:02] Strength. Character. Fearlessness. These traits were Gron’s gift to all people. But first and foremost, it’s just Gron’s blood, which makes us barbarians the greatest warriors in all of Matalonia. Fucking barbarians, man. Going out on a quest is more about having big balls rather than big muscles.

Paul Scheer [00:47:29] You can stream Ronal the Barbarian for free on YouTube, or you can rent it on Apple TV. I also encourage you to check out Hoopla and Kanopy, which are digital media services offered by your local public library that allow you to consume movies, TV, audiobooks, ebooks, and comics for free. While we’re talking about local public libraries, where my librarians at? Librarians, please, preorder my book. You can do that too. And if you can’t afford my book, well, then what you can do, is you can preorder my book at the library. You can request it. It’s very easy to do. So librarians help people out, but you can go to your local public library to preorder my book. All this stuff actually helps. And you know what? With that I’ll say, ado. That’s right. Remember to rate and review the show. It helps. And if you listen on Apple Podcasts, make sure you are following us. Visit us on social media @HDTGM. And a big thank you to our producers Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, Avril Halley, and our associate producer Jess Cisneros, and as well as our engineers, Casey Holford and Rich Garcia. We will see you next week for Ronal the Barbarian.