EP. 248 — Nicole Is Into Skydiving

NICOLE: Hi, Sasheer.

SASHEER: Hi, Nicole.

NICOLE: How are you?

SASHEER: I’m all right. How are you?

NICOLE: Listen. I’m thriving. Life is good.

SASHEER: Oh, that’s good to hear.

NICOLE: I’m trying to put my phone on Do Not Disturb, and it’s not working out. Oh, there it goes. Okay. Sometimes it’s hard. What’s new? What are you doing?

SASHEER: Yesterday I went indoor skydiving.

NICOLE: Oh. How was that?

SASHEER: It was very fun. My arms really hurt today because you’re just, like, laying flat, and then the air is blowing underneath you. And they keep saying, like, “Move your hands forward and in a certain position.” And so I guess my hands were just, like, pushing against the air the whole time. And now I’m sore.

NICOLE: I’m sorry that you’re sore. That’s crazy. How does it work?

SASHEER: I don’t know how they generate the air, but a bunch of air from the floor just, like, blows up and pushes up. And then you lie on top of the air, and then there’s a person who’s, like, making sure you’re safe and, like, balanced. And then you just, like, lie flat and then spin around and all that stuff. And then there’s an option where the person who knows what they’re doing can grab you. And then you guys fly up high in the air and then come back down.

NICOLE: Did you do that?

SASHEER: I did do that.

NICOLE: Do you want to go real skydiving now? Are you sure? You did, like, the test version.

SASHEER: Yeah. The guy was like, “That’s basically what skydiving is like.” And I was like, “Cool. I don’t want to do that for longer.” It was, like, a minute and 20 seconds each time. And I was like, “I don’t wanna do this for, like–I don’t know–15 minutes.” I have no idea how long it takes to get from the plane to the ground. But whatever it is, I don’t want to do it.

NICOLE: Five minutes. But then you’re outside!

SASHEER: Yeah, sure, I guess, but it doesn’t make me feel better. I like being inside.

NICOLE: You can see the world and clouds and birds. Imagine waving at a bird!

SASHEER: And then what?

NICOLE: And then you, like, leave the bird. And then that bird goes home and goes, “I saw the biggest birds today.” And you made a bird’s day. Don’t you want to make a bird’s day?

SASHEER: I don’t care about birds! I thought it was very fun. But–yeah–I don’t think I need to do it for real for real.

NICOLE: I got excited. I was like, “This would be a fun activity!”

SASHEER: Not for me.

NICOLE: I had sushi yesterday.

SASHEER: Okay! How was it?

NICOLE: It was good. I tried a salmon thing and then another salmon thing, and that was pretty good. But the salmon is a weird consistency, so I really just stuck to my cucumber roll and my avocado roll.

SASHEER: Okay, but brave of you to try.

NICOLE: Thank you. I also thought it was pretty brave of me, and I was, like, pretty proud of myself.

SASHEER: Yeah. Yeah, because you’re not a fish person at all.

NICOLE: No. Nor am I a try-a-new-thing person. But 2024 is my year, and I’m gonna try all new things.

SASHEER: Yeah, you can try a lot of stuff.

NICOLE: Yeah, and I swallowed, even though I didn’t want to.

SASHEER: I am so glad. Was there a risk that you wouldn’t?

NICOLE: Well, you know, sometimes people don’t like something and they act like a child and they spit it out. And I’m trying really hard to just be like, “Hey, swallowing doesn’t kill.” So I swallowed my sushi.

SASHEER: Good for you. Have you ever done that where you’ve been like, “I don’t like this,” and you spat it out?

NICOLE: All the time.

SASHEER: All the time?

NICOLE: Yeah, there’s a whole show where I do it.

SASHEER: Oh, yeah. But, like, in real life–at a restaurant.

NICOLE: You do it very discreetly. You’re like, “Hahaha.” And then you bring the napkin to your mouth, and then you spit into the napkin. Then you fold the napkin, and then you put it, like, under the plate.

SASHEER: Have you done that when I’m around?

NICOLE: Yeah.

SASHEER: Really?

NICOLE: Yeah, I’ve done it a bunch of times. I just do it very discreetly because it’s a child thing to do–to not, like, just swallow the food.

SASHEER: Yeah. I mean, yeah, very discreetly. I truly have never noticed you do that before.

NICOLE: Thank you. She is a lady.

SASHEER: Such a lady–spitting out at the table.

NICOLE: And this restaurant I went to–the bathroom was so far in the back that I truly felt like I was in a different restaurant. And then three different servers had to be like, “Keep going.” And I wanted to be like, “Why did you put it all the way back there if you have to tell people to keep going?”

SASHEER: Because they wanted to build the restaurant with more seats.

NICOLE: Make it more accessible to me. That’s my problem. Today is Wednesday. What are you doing Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday? Don’t tell me about Monday or Tuesday.

SASHEER: Because those have passed.

NICOLE: Well, they’re coming up. They’re always coming up.

SASHEER: Lord, don’t I know.

NICOLE: Monday is always just around the riverbend.

SASHEER: What am I doing? I gotta get my calendar out because I don’t know right off the top of my head. Thursday, I’m going to donate a bunch of clothes to the Downtown Women’s Center.

NICOLE: Ooh.

SASHEER: Finally. I keep looking at my closet, and I’m like, “I don’t want this either.” And it’s, like, adding to the pile. And then Friday I have my first drum lesson.

NICOLE: Wow. Wait, are you going to get drums in your house?

SASHEER: No, I’m going to a place that has drums that I can use. And then I think I can get a little drum pad I could take home but not, like, a kit. And then I guess if I love it, I can get a kit. But let’s see if I like it. T

NICOLE: That’s the exact opposite of how I work. I go, “I want to do this.” And then I’ll get all the things. And then I’ll be like, “Well, that wasn’t for me.” And then I’ll have all the things. I have a trampoline because I was going to start doing trampoline fitness. I have a sewing machine because I was going to start a sewing club. What else do I have? I have so many things just in my house that I’m like, “I don’t use this.”

SASHEER: Yeah. I mean, I guess you can always rent stuff or take a class and see if you like it there. And then if you’re like, “I love it,” then have it in your home. But I mean, I definitely still have things that I don’t use or I’m like, “Well, maybe I’ll use it one day.” Like, I have a keyboard and a piano and a guitar and a thumb piano and a harmonica, and I’m like, “Maybe one day I’ll start a whole band.”

NICOLE: A thumb piano?

SASHEER: Yeah, I think there’s another name for it that’s more official. But it’s just like one of those African thumb pianos that you, like, pluck.

NICOLE: Ohh. Here’s the thing. I think you should get a full drum kit.

SASHEER: No, because that takes up so much space. The other things I can, like, put under my bed, put in a closet, or put somewhere else. A drum kit is just out. And if I don’t play it, it’s still out.

NICOLE: Yeah, but, like, think of all the colorful drums you can get.

SASHEER: Yeah, I sure can get a lot of colorful drums.

NICOLE: You could get, like, a purple drum kit where each one is a different shade of purple.

SASHEER: That sounds like something up your alley. It sounds like you want a purple drum kit.

NICOLE: Maybe I do!

SASHEER: Yeah.

NICOLE: I wanted to play the drums. My mother was like, “You’re loud. I don’t want another loud thing in the house.” So I had to play the flute.

SASHEER: Which is not loud?

NICOLE: It’s not that loud.

SASHEER: I guess. It’s still loud.

NICOLE: Well, in comparison to drums, I think it’s much quieter. Wow, these drum kits are really, really nice. Oh my God, this purple one is cherry mahogany. What part of a drum is wood? Oh, I guess the around it. “The around it.” You know, the official name. Jordan loves her drum lessons.

SASHEER: Jordan, you’re taking drum lessons currently?

NICOLE: Yeah. I had to do a temporary pause just because it was getting expensive. But back in college, I had a professor tell me that I could not keep rhythm. Guess what? I am great at keeping rhythm. I’m actually really good at drums. And same as Nicole. I’ve always wanted to do it. And not that my parents said no to it, but I just was like, “Well, I’m playing guitar. I’m playing piano. Why do I need more things?” But this past fall, I just did, like, a ton of new things–and one of them was drum lessons. And I love it. It feels really empowering and, like, I feel like a badass on drums.

SASHEER: Do you have a drum kit?

JORDAN: So I have a kit, which I’m not super happy with. Speaking of things to maybe not buy or, like, maybe wait to buy, I would rather, like, an actual practice kit that I use at the studio with my teacher. It’s just, again, like, it just wasn’t in my budget. The Ekit was, like, 300 bucks. The kit that she had while teaching me was, like, over a thousand. And I was like, “I’m just taking lessons. I don’t know if I want to spend that much money.”

SASHEER: That makes sense.

NICOLE: I get it. Also, how do you travel with drums? Do you, like, disassemble a drum kit and put it in your car and then take it out of your car and reassemble it?

JORDAN: Yeah. And that’s why, being in a band, I ended up, like, helping the drummer pack everything up because you have to put each piece and then break down the stands that the drums are standing on.

SASHEER: How long would you say it takes to put together a drum kit?

JORDAN: I mean, depending on the drummer, maybe, like, a couple minutes because it’s… Yeah, if they know where everything is going and they’re comfortable with it, they just have to plop everything onto the stands. And then typically a drummer will sit and then start adjusting from there. So maybe–max–it could be, like, five minutes. But then add in mic placement if you’re being miked for the live shows, which sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. But if you’re, like, an arena touring drummer, you’re being miked. So that’s an additional… Then the engineer is coming in or whoever is the live person.

SASHEER: Okay, that’s good to know.

NICOLE: It’s a lot of work. It’s like a traveling stripper. You gotta put the pole up. You got to put the stage together. It’s a whole thing.

SASHEER: Wait, is this a real thing you’re talking about?

NICOLE: Yeah. Like, an X pole stage. You have to put the stage together. You gotta put the pole in it, and it’s heavy. It takes a while to set up.

JORDAN: How many traveling strippers do you know? I’m genuine. I’m genuinely curious because I didn’t realize you could be a traveling stripper.

SASHEER: Same.

NICOLE: Well, I mean, if you do, like, shows and the place that you’re doing a show doesn’t have a pole and you want to use a pole, you got to bring your pole. I mean, I personally don’t know any traveling strippers, but I know people who travel with stripper poles for shows and such.

SASHEER: And how do you travel with a stripper pole?

NICOLE: You have to break down the pole. So the pole is in several parts, and then the stage is in several parts. And then the stage kind of looks like a wheel of cheese that each cheese slice or cheese chunk you put in a bag. And then you break the pole down, and that goes in a bag. And then it’s so fucking heavy. It’s what I had in my backyard for such a long time.

SASHEER: Yeah, which… Where is it now? I thought about the other day. I was like, “Where is that pole?”

NICOLE: Honestly, I think I sold it or gave it to someone. I don’t remember exactly. Or it got thrown away because it was rusty. That might have been it. If I couldn’t sell it, I threw it away because it was just outside. No, I sold it.

JORDAN: Well, I have a question because you guys have done pole dancing. And I’ve always wondered if this was true or not. When you are, like, going around on the pole, is the pole moving, or it’s just your body moving around the pole?

NICOLE: Depends. Some poles are static and some poles spin and some do both. So people who are, like, holding shapes–that’s usually a spinning pole. But people who it looks like they’re propelling themselves around–that’s usually static.

JUDITH: Do you prefer one over the other, Nicole, when you do it?

NICOLE: I prefer static because I simply think it’s easier. But a lot of people seem to think spin is easier. But I don’t think so. I think I get dizzy.

SASHEER: Yeah, I only took one spin the whole class, and I was very dizzy because you go too fast. And then you go so fast I feel like I do have less control.

NICOLE: And you have to know how to self-regulate. Like, if you bring your body closer to the pole, you go faster. And then if you bring it away from the pole, you go slower. And that’s just science.

SASHEER: Velocity!

NICOLE: Velocity and ferocity and fierceness. Ahh! I haven’t been to pole in a minute because I’ve just had to be doing things. I miss it. I got to get back into it.

SASHEER: You’ve got to.

NICOLE: I know. Should we do a quiz?

SASHEER: Yeah, let’s do a quiz.

NICOLE: Ooh. “Tell Us What You Do In A Day And I’ll Reveal Which Color Matches Your Core Personality.” Or “Are You More Gen Z Core or Millennial Core?” Or “Eat Nothing But Dessert And I’ll Tell You Who Your Celebrity BFF Is!”

SASHEER: Sure!

NICOLE: That one?

SASHEER: Yeah!

NICOLE: Okay. You don’t want to find out if you’re Gen Z or millennial? And you don’t want to find out what color your core personality is.

SASHEER: I feel like I’ll definitely be millennial. I don’t think there’s a question of that one.

NICOLE: And I’ll be Gen Z because I’m so young!

SASHEER: You’re so young. And then the color one sounded great, too.

NICOLE: I did allow you to choose, and I don’t know why I’m like, “Why did you choose that one?” We’re going to eat nothing but dessert and find out who our celebrity BFF is. I hope mine’s Oprah.

SASHEER: Gayle will fight you.

NICOLE: I know, but I think I could take Gayle in a fight.

SASHEER: Ooh!

NICOLE: Do you not?

SASHEER: I don’t know. I mean, just based on, like, her demeanor, I don’t think she’ll give up in a fight. Like, the way she told R. Kelly to sit down.

NICOLE: “Robert.” I think I could knock her off her feet pretty quick.

SASHEER: Oh, my goodness. Pretty quick?

NICOLE: Yeah, she’s a little older. I’d come at her fast.

SASHEER: Okay. “Eat Nothing But Dessert And I’ll Tell You Who Your Celebrity BFF Is!” “Have a slice of cake.”

NICOLE: Okay. This one is “red velvet!”

SASHEER: “Strawberry.”

NICOLE: “Chocolate.”

SASHEER: “Vanilla.”

NICOLE: That vanilla cake looks tough.

SASHEER: Yeah, it looks really dry.

NICOLE: Yeah, it looks dry and like someone really just overmixed it in a way that’s sick. How did that end up on Getty Images?

SASHEER: I would choose red velvet.

NICOLE: I’m going to choose strawberry.

SASHEER: It does look good.

NICOLE: Since there’s no ice cream and it looks really moist and it looks flavorful. “Eat a specialty dessert.”

SASHEER: “Baklava.”

NICOLE: “Flan.”

SASHEER: “Cannoli.”

NICOLE: Ooh! “Churros.”

SASHEER: You know, I would not actively choose any of these. They’re not my kind of desserts.

NICOLE: They’re not really my kind of desserts, either. Baklava is what? Like, a puff pastry with, like, pistachio?

SASHEER: I guess so.

NICOLE: I mean, that’s what that picture is showing.

JUDITH: I think honey, too.

NICOLE: Honey… I think I got to go with a cannoli because every time I have a cannoli, I’m not exactly happy about it, but I’m not mad.

SASHEER: Just middle of the road.

NICOLE: You know, I’m like, “All right, this is sweet.” Oh, my God, do you want to know what I had last night?

SASHEER: What did you have?

NICOLE: Tempura ice cream.

SASHEER: Tempura?

NICOLE: I don’t think I’ve ever had it. Or if I did, maybe it was when I was a kid and I, like, forgot about it. But you know how, like, tempura has, like, that breaded coat on it? This ice cream was, like, deep fried with a breaded coat on it. I couldn’t believe it. I squealed the whole time I was eating it.

SASHEER: Oh my goodness. That sounds great.

NICOLE: I did like it. Too bad that’s not on the list.

SASHEER: Well, we’re just starting. Maybe there’s more. I would have a churro because it reminds me of a carnival.

NICOLE: Oh. I do like carnivals. “Pick a cookie.”

SASHEER: “Chocolate chip.”

NICOLE: “M&MS.”

SASHEER: “Matcha” cookies?

NICOLE: Never in my life have I ever–

SASHEER: They don’t look good.

NICOLE: No, they look like the Grinch stole the flavor. Okay. “Peanut butter.” I gotta do an old classic. I gotta do chocolate chip.

SASHEER: Yeah. I would do peanut butter.

NICOLE: Really?

SASHEER: I love a peanut butter cookie, even though I probably shouldn’t because I’m supposed to, like, not eat tree nuts anymore, which sucks.

NICOLE: Oh no.

SASHEER: I mean, I’m, like, not really listening. And I took this test that was like, “These are things that you’re intolerant to or, like, things that are not great for you.” I’m not allergic or… They’re not gonna be bad. They’re just like, “This will be harder for your body to process other vitamins.”

NICOLE: I get that.

SASHEER: Yeah. Sometimes I still sneak a little bit of peanut butter.

NICOLE: God, I love nuts. I didn’t know peanuts were tree nuts. Peanuts are on trees?

SASHEER: I have no idea.

NICOLE: I’ve never seen a peanut tree.

SASHEER: I don’t even know what nuts are on trees.

NICOLE: Me either. Almonds grow on trees?

SASHEER: “What are tree nuts? Almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, pecans, pine nuts, pistachio nuts, and walnuts.”

NICOLE: Wow. You’ve been lied to. You can eat peanuts because they’re legumes.

SASHEER: No, I really can’t. This specifically said peanuts and then, I guess, in addition to peanuts, tree nuts. So nuts, I guess.

NICOLE: Wow. That stinks. I love peanuts.

SASHEER: Yeah, which– I didn’t know this about you. When we were in South Africa, you were eating shelled peanuts the whole time. You’re just like, “I love a peanut.” I just turn around, and you’re undoing a nut. And I was like, “Wow, you’re really going for it?”

NICOLE: I love them. I mean, you turn down nuts on planes, and then I go, “Can you not? I’ll eat your nuts.”

SASHEER: Yeah, I didn’t realize you eat any nut.

NICOLE: Yeah. On my flight back on Sunday, I was like, “Ooh, give me them nuts.” And they gave me them nuts. And then after a while, I was like, “Do you have any more nuts?” And they were like, “Yes.” And they gave me more nuts. This is not a good story.

SASHEER: “Get this. I was on the plane, and I was like, ‘Can I have some nuts?’ They’re like, ‘Yeah, we have them.’ And I was like, ‘Do you have any more nuts?’ And they’re like, ‘Yeah, here’s more nuts.’”

NICOLE: They gave me more nuts!

SASHEER: No, I think it was a really good story.

NICOLE: No, it’s pretty terrible. “What’s your favorite donut flavor?”

SASHEER: “Cinnamon sugar.”

NICOLE: “Oreo.”

SASHEER: “Strawberry frosted.”

NICOLE: “Chocolate sprinkles.”

SASHEER: I like just a plain glaze.

NICOLE: Well, that’s not here.

SASHEER: Maybe I’ll say strawberry frosted.

NICOLE: That does look good. I’m going to say cinnamon sugar because it reminds me of apple cider donuts from Delicious Orchards, a grocery store that my mother used to take me to when I was little. Can you look up if Delicious Orchards is still a thing in New Jersey?

SASHEER: I thought you were just, like, saying that orchards are delicious or, like, a particularly delicious orchard. I didn’t know it was a store.

NICOLE: Yeah. It’s in New Jersey. I can’t remember. Maybe Colts Neck, New Jersey? Oh, it’s in Holmdel. Oh, my God, it still exists! Okay.Yeah. Delicious Orchards. I want to see if they still have those donuts.

SASHEER: Do they sell things that are mostly from orchards? Or is it like a regular grocery store?

NICOLE: I think it’s just, like, a regular grocery square store. But they, like, make things in-house, and everything is more delicious and, like, organic and stuff. There’s the donut!

SASHEER: First thing you see!

NICOLE: “Their world famous apple cider donuts are the first to tempt you. So good luck trying to walk past these delicious round treats.” It’s so true. They’re so good.

SASHEER: They look good. They look huge, too.

NICOLE: They’re not, like, gigantic gigantic, but they’re a decent size. Oh, they’re closed on Mondays. I get it.

SASHEER: Why do you get it?

NICOLE: Mondays are tough, and they’re always just around the corner.

SASHEER: They are. They always show up.

NICOLE: Even when you don’t want them to come, they come so quick.

SASHEER: “Grab some ice cream.”

NICOLE: “Ube.”

SASHEER: “Matcha.”

NICOLE: “Vanilla.”

SASHEER: “Coffee.”

NICOLE: My favorite flavor of ice cream is indeed vanilla. And people like to pretend that vanilla is not a flavor. But vanilla is a flavor, and vanilla is a deeply complex flavor. And it’s delicious. And it’s classic.

SASHEER: You tell it, girl! You stand up for vanilla!

NICOLE: Yes, I love vanilla!

SASHEER: I’m new to the ice cream game, so I haven’t dared to venture out and try new flavors, so I’m gonna say vanilla.

NICOLE: Are you, like, eating ice cream on the regular?

SASHEER: I wouldn’t say regular, but, like, if it’s around, I might have a little couple scoops.

NICOLE: Wow. This is interesting. This is a real development on the ice cream front. This is like my soup journey.

SASHEER: Yes. You’re trying hot liquids. I’m trying cold salads.

NICOLE: Well, we need to go out for ice cream soon.

SASHEER: Okay. Let’s go out for ice cream.

NICOLE: “Pick a cupcake.”

SASHEER: “Lemon.”

NICOLE: “Birthday cake.”

SASHEER: “Chocolate praline.”

NICOLE: “Mint chocolate.”

SASHEER: That lemon cupcake looks good to me.

NICOLE: It does look good. And I normally would say birthday cake, but I’m going to be adventurous. And I’m going to say chocolate praline, because once at a Baskin-Robbins, I was buying a cake for some event, and they had a praline cake. And I said, “You don’t have any simple vanilla cakes?” They said, “No.” I said, “With the chocolate crunch?” And they said, “That’s Dairy Queen.” So they’re like, “You should get this praline one.” And I said, “All right.” And it was so good that I went back the next day and bought a whole one for myself and slowly ate it over the course of a month.

SASHEER: Cakes last that long?

NICOLE: You know, I don’t think so. I recently had to ask my aunt. I said, “You can freeze food, right?” She said, “Yes.” And I said, “How long can you freeze that food for?” And she said, “One or two months.” And I said, “So I should stop eating the macaroni cheese I made for Thanksgiving?” And she said, “I would.” But I don’t know. I think you could eat food forever.

SASHEER: Definitely not forever. But I do think you can eat frozen food longer than a couple months. But I also don’t know.

NICOLE: I don’t know either. I had to throw out some frozen food I had that expired in 2022 because they just sit in my freezer.

SASHEER: It’s hard because I’m not often in my freezer, so if I don’t see it regularly, I just forget I have it.

NICOLE: Same.

SASHEER: “The quality and taste of your favorite foods can be preserved in the freezer anywhere from 1 to 12 months.” Okay, so it’s fine if it’s longer than a couple of months.

NICOLE: I mean, that is different.

SASHEER: This is a huge range. Could be a month. Could be a year.

NICOLE: Yeah. That’s wild.

SASHEER: Should we look up how long you can keep macaroni and cheese in the freezer?

NICOLE: Yeah. And then once something gets freezer burned, does that mean you shouldn’t eat it again?

SASHEER: I do think that’s the case.

NICOLE: And that’s when the little crystals appear, right? How does that happen?

SASHEER: I feel like it’s when the air gets to it or, like, if it’s not sealed up properly. But then sometimes it does get in there if it’s, like, in a glass container. So I don’t know.

NICOLE: Yeah. Freezer burn is crazy. What a phenomenon?

SASHEER: How to Freeze Mac and Cheese by Kitchen.com says, “Mac and cheese can be frozen for up to three months.” Has it been longer than three months?

NICOLE: November to December, December to January, January to February… Uh oh. It’s coming up on the month. I should eat the rest.

SASHEER: You gotta finish it fast.

NICOLE: Well, I’m glad we took that detour for me.

SASHEER: “Pick between these random options.”

NICOLE: “Macarons.”

SASHEER: “Milk bread donuts?” I don’t know if I’ve heard of that. They look good.

NICOLE: I have heard of them, but I have never had them. “Lava cake.”

SASHEER: And “crêpes.”

NICOLE: You know I’m gonna pick that lava cake because I love a lava cake from any old place.

SASHEER: You do love a lava cake.

NICOLE: It’s so ingenious! I bite into it, and a bunch more chocolate comes out? Okay.

SASHEER: We had malva cake in South Africa, and it was so good and tasty from the safari resort we were staying at. And then I don’t know why I wanted to, like, ruin it for myself. And then when we were in an airport, killing time, we were sitting in this nasty restaurant. And I saw malva cake on the menu, and I was like, “I know for a fact I like Malva cake because I had it once. Let’s get it again.” And it was disgusting.

NICOLE: It was so bad. Even my french fries were bad.

SASHEER: Yeah. That was quite a feat to be like, “How did you make everything bad?”

NICOLE: It was, like, old grease or something. They just tasted so funky.

SASHEER: Yeah, but, like, airport food’s always suspect. Like, there’s a risk there. Sometimes it’s normal. Sometimes it’s bad. But that was particularly bad.

NICOLE: Yeah. Even my milkshake was bad.

SASHEER: Yeah.

NICOLE: You know what was good? My bottled water. They slammed that right on the head. It was so tasty.

SASHEER: And their napkins were great.

NICOLE: Oh, God. Those napkins–very absorbent.

SASHEER: I think I would try the milk bread donuts just because they look so tasty in this picture.

NICOLE: “Cheesecake!” “Plain.”

SASHEER: “Blueberry and blackberry.”

NICOLE: “Chocolate.”

SASHEER: “Caramel.”

NICOLE: I don’t think I’ve ever had a chocolate cheesecake.

SASHEER: I’m sure I have. I used to have many a cheesecake. I just love cheesecake, and I would get it anytime I saw it. But I think my digestive system has changed. And so now I don’t eat cheesecake as much as I used to.

NICOLE: I remember buying you a cheesecake.

SASHEER: I think it was during COVID, and you drove it by. It was a driveby cheesecake. You just pulled up, put your hand out the window, handed me a cheesecake, and kept going.

NICOLE: Boy, I’m fun.

SASHEER: It was nice.

NICOLE: I’m going to say plain.

SASHEER: I think I’m gonna try the caramel. I do like caramel.

NICOLE: Ooh. I like caramel, too.

SASHEER: “Pick a pastry.”

NICOLE: “Banana cream pie croissant.”

SASHEER: Well, there’s a lot going on with that. A “cinnamon roll.”

NICOLE: A “chocolate croissant.”

SASHEER: “Hot cross buns.”

NICOLE: “Hot cross buns…” You ever play that song?

SASHEER: Yeah. Are there more words to that?

NICOLE: “See how they run…”

SASHEER: Wait, or real? No, no, no. That’s, like… Wait. What is that?

NICOLE: “Hot cross buns. See how they run. You’ll never catch them. These buns are cross. And they’re hot.”

SASHEER: I think you’re combining two different songs. I can’t think. What is this “See how they run”?

NICOLE: I think you’re thinking of Hot Cross Buns.

JUDITH: I think it’s Three Blind Mice.

SASHEER: Yes, it’s Three Blind Mice! That’s what it is. Which is also rude. Like, “Look at these three blind mice. Look at how they run. Look at these blind ass mice running all over the place.”

NICOLE: That is pretty rude. It’s not teaching children empathy. It’s teaching them to laugh at animals who are blindly running into walls.

SASHEER: “Hot cross buns. Hot cross buns. One a penny, two a penny. Hot cross buns. If you have no daughters, give them to your sons. One a penny, two a penny. Hot cross buns.”

NICOLE: What? Oh, give the pennies to your sons.

SASHEER: Or the buns? I was worried that it was give your daughters to your sons.

NICOLE: Yeah, I was getting confused. I was like, “I don’t want to give my daughter to anybody.”

SASHEER: Interesting.

NICOLE: Can we look at Three Blind Mice? What comes after “See how they run”? Maybe there’s some empathy later in the song.

SASHEER: “See how they run. And don’t you want to help them out?”

NICOLE: “See how they run. Pick them up. Put them where they’re trying to go.”

SASHEER: “Three blind mice. Three blind mice. See how they run. See how they run. They all ran after the farmer’s wife. She cut off their tails with a carving knife. Did you ever see such a sight in your life as three blind mice?”

NICOLE: This is for children?

SASHEER: They ran after the farmer’s wife, and she cut off their tails with a carving knife. And then that’s just over and over again? Those are the only lyrics. Damn. But they didn’t know what they were doing! They couldn’t see her.

NICOLE: Yeah, they couldn’t see. But you know what? She could see them and cut their tails off.

SASHEER: Yeah. And now they have even less sensory… I feel like the tail was helping them figure out, like, spatial awareness of what’s going on around them. Now they don’t even have that.

NICOLE: Now, they’re just probably rolling around. They probably don’t have balance either. Oh, my God.

SASHEER: This is sad.

NICOLE: She made them into little potatoes with feet.

SASHEER: And that’s honestly more horrifying than mice running around. Like, “Wait, are these potatoes?”

NICOLE: What’s wrong with the farmer’s wife? What’s her deal?

SASHEER: Yeah, you’re on a farm. You don’t want to see mice?

NICOLE: Yeah, you probably have cows and shit.

SASHEER: Yeah, of course there’s mice running around!

NICOLE: And then you let them just run around your house after? That’s so unsanitary. Why don’t you open a door and let them get out?

SASHEER: Yeah, or maybe clean up your kitchen. Is your kitchen so dirty that mice want to be in there?

NICOLE: Yeah, you dirty bitch. I’m going to pick a chocolate croissant.

SASHEER: Maybe I’ll pick hot cross buns.

NICOLE: Ooh.

SASHEER: Oh, no. I take it back. I want a cinnamon roll.

NICOLE: I do love a cinnamon roll. I haven’t had one in a very long time.

SASHEER: I haven’t either.

NICOLE: I think they’re just, like, not readily available.

SASHEER: They’re so hard to get.

NICOLE: You know, like, in the mall, it’s Auntie Anne’s. No. That’s pretzels. Cinnamon Bun? Cinnabon?

SASHEER: Cinnabon. Yeah.

NICOLE: Malls made fun food more accessible.

SASHEER: Yeah. But yeah, I’m not in the mall often. Ooh, I went to Pink’s at Universal CityWalk. And it was very tasty but, like, you know, bad for my body.

NICOLE: Sure. Did your whole asshole blow out?

SASHEER: Actually, like, not as bad as I thought it would. But I was gurgling for the rest of the day.

NICOLE: What time did you eat it?

SASHEER: I think, like, 5:00 p.m. maybe. Too early.

NICOLE: Tough time. Pink’s is late night food–I think at, like, 10:00 p.m. when you can sit on your couch and gurgle. Did you then walk around CityWalk?

SASHEER: A little bit. Maybe because I walked I was able to digest faster because I feel like if I sat or laid down–that would have really fucked me up.

NICOLE: I didn’t even know they had a Pink’s there. Last time I went… I think I went to Margaritaville once. But then Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. Oh, baby, it’s a good time.

SASHEER: It’s a good time. “Pick one more random dessert.”

NICOLE: “Cherry pie.”

SASHEER: “S’mores.”

NICOLE: “Brownies.”

SASHEER: “Fruit tart.”

NICOLE: These are random. If someone said, “Do you want cherry pie, a s’more, a brownie, or a fruit tart?” I’d be like, “Where the fuck are we?”

SASHEER: Yeah, what is the event? Where are we geographically? Like, they’re all so all over the place.

NICOLE: I don’t like cherry pie. I think it tastes like eating a bunch of jam.

SASHEER: Yeah. It’s really thick.

NICOLE: Yeah. It’s just simply not for me.

SASHEER: I think I’m going to say brownie.

NICOLE: Okay, I’m going to say s’mores. Okay. Oh, my God! Who’s this?

JUDITH: This is Sasheer’s.

SASHEER: My celebrity BFF is Beyoncé? Wow. “In your fun and free era, you tend to be more extroverted.” Okay. “You love going out and meeting new people and trying new things.” I am doing that. “You need a dance party bestie, a going out bestie, a will always be by your side bestie.” Okay! What’s funny is I don’t even think Beyoncé fits this description. I don’t think she wants to party and dance all night. I think she wants to be home.

NICOLE: No. I think she wants to be home, too. Also, I loved all the pictures of the Grammys where people are just, like, lining up to take a picture with her. I was like, “I would never leave my house.”

SASHEER: She’s bombarded by celebrities? This woman wants to be home. She doesn’t want to be out.

NICOLE: Meryl Streep, multiple award winner, was like, “Let me at her!” “No. Let me go home.” Okay, I got Miley Cyrus. “The main character. You’re in your protect your peace and I choose me era. Like Miley right now, you’re all about being intentional with your time and love and choosing things for yourself–things that bring you happiness.”All right, BuzzFeed. I don’t know. I don’t know about that one, BuzzFeed.

SASHEER: I mean, I’d say you’re in a choose me era, no?

NICOLE: I mean, I don’t know. I guess. I woke up really early today. I went right back to sleep, so I chose me.

SASHEER: There you go. She chose herself.

NICOLE: More sleep, please. I would be Miley Cyrus’ best friend. She seems like a good time.

SASHEER: She does seem like a good time. She seems like the description that I had of ready to party and dance and stuff.

NICOLE: Yes I agree. How should we help the children of the future–let them live and let them lead the way? Should we do that?

SASHEER: Yes. Let’s do that.

JORDAN: Also, Nicole, every time you sing, it gets better and better.

NICOLE: Thank you. I need to get back in my singing classes. I just haven’t had the time!

JORDAN: You know what? Sasheer should do drums. And you in the same room should do voice lessons. I think it would go great.

NICOLE: She’s trying to keep rhythm, and I’m trying to find a key.

SASHEER: Eventually we’ll get there.

NICOLE: And then we can start a two-person band.

SASHEER: Yes, with just voice and drums.

NICOLE: Honestly? I’ve never seen it, and it’s never been done. Okay, this email is “How to Recover From a Year With a Cheater?” “Hi, Nicole and Sasheer. I’ve got a doozy for you. I’m a 34-year-old woman who considers myself to be strong, independent, and happy with who I am. I moved to Mexico City in September of 2022 and began dating someone that December. For the following year, he was my person. We went on trips. I learned to mountain bike with him. He even was by my side during a cancer diagnosis and treatment. I’m okay now. Last weekend, I learned he’d been cheating on me within a secret relationship for the entire time we were together. Most of that other relationship was long distance, though she was planning a visit. And in his mind, this would be the start of their lives together.” Whoa.

SASHEER: “Needless to say, wading through the lies of the past year has been a mind fuck. Looking back, there were some red flags that I noticed: emotional distance, some obsession with his phone, etc. I brought these up multiple times, and he always convinced me to believe him. His father had recently become seriously ill, and I always just chalked the distance up to him being concerned about his father. I think, looking back, I wanted this relationship to work so much that I stopped trusting myself. I’m not afraid of being alone, but–man–did the hope of something finally working out really affect what I would put up with. My question for you both is how can I move on and establish a balance between healthy boundaries and also trust? It’s hard for me to imagine I will ever trust someone again without full access to their phone. But that’s also a bananas thing to ask a couple of months into dating someone.”

NICOLE: “Where is the balance between trusting my intuition or being overcome by anxiety and trust issues? Where’s the balance between seeing the good in people and realizing when you’re being totally fucked over? I am in therapy, don’t worry. But you two always make me laugh and give such good advice that I wanted to reach out. Thank you for bringing a smile to my face every week.” Yikes, yikes, yikes! I’m sorry that happened.

SASHEER: I’m glad you’re out of it. But–god–that is really horrible.

NICOLE: It’s kind of like that lady on TikTok. You see her?

SASHEER: I tried to start that journey. It was like, “Who the fuck did I marry?” or whatever.

NICOLE: Yeah, it’s 52 fucking ten-minute-long videos. That’s a movie, friend.

SASHEER: I don’t even think I made it past the intro. I was like, “I’m sure it’s juicy, but I can’t. I can’t look at my phone for this long to get to the root of what’s happening.”

NICOLE: I did finish the first video, or maybe I made it to the second one, but the most interesting thing was he would be on phone calls every day, and nobody was on the other line.

SASHEER: Ooh, that’s actually scary.

NICOLE: This man was pretending to talk to people. And then she was, like, in the hospital, and they called him to discharge her. He pretended to be his own assistant. And he said he worked at a condiment company. And he was, like, a vice president or something. And he was like, “Oh, I’ll come get her after I’m out of my meeting.” But he wasn’t in a meeting. He was a temp for a forklift at a company and, like, couldn’t leave his forklifting job and then also, like, bullshitted his way into a house. So it was, like, pretty juicy for the first episode. But I was like, “I just can’t sit here for 40 more minutes.”

SASHEER: Yeah. For sure. Okay, well, you know, at least this person didn’t go through that.

NICOLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you just have to remember that that person is that person and not everyone is going to fuck you over or cheat on you. Like, a new relationship is just that–it’s new. And also, I think you got to get comfortable being single because the fear of being single can’t motivate you to stay in something.

SASHEER: Yeah. I think it’s also okay to be honest and tell people about your past experiences, like, “Hey, I got out of a long term thing where I was lied to a bunch. So, like, that is a trigger for me–mistrust or keeping information.” And I guess not to, like, scare that person but just so when they know what’s going on because you probably will be triggered. And you probably will be suspicious or something. And of course you will. And I don’t think you have to beat yourself up for it. You were taken advantage of and lied to. And it might take a minute for you to, like, get to the point where you are, like, trusting again. And, yeah, I think it’s okay to let any new person or current people in your life know, like, “Hey, I’m still a little sensitive in this department, so if something comes up, this is why.” And then they at least have a bit of an idea of, like, “Oh, okay. That’s probably what that is.”

NICOLE: I agree. I do find it hard in the moment to be like, “Oh, this is why I’m feeling this type of way.” But, like, I think it would be good to get in the habit of being like, “Oh, I feel a little triggered. And I’m feeling feelings for my old relationship coming up. And I understand that you’re not that person, but I’m just feeling that. And I just need some reassurance right now.” That’s the thing I’ve never known how to do–to be like, “Oh, I just need reassurance that, like, you’re still there for me and stuff.” But also, I think staying in therapy is also a really great thing, so you’re not projecting all of this on this new person. But yeah. Also, you know what they say. Lightning doesn’t strike twice. You’re not going to get cheated on again. I’m just kidding. Lightning does strike twice. And I think it happens often.

SASHEER: I was gonna say. Don’t promise that.

NICOLE: I think the next person you meet is going to be nice to you. Solved!

SASHEER: Solved! “Hello, Nicole and Sasheer and team. Your podcast is amazing, and I have a friend query that I was hoping you could help me out with. I want to start off by saying I am pro-therapy and pro everyone going on their journey, but I’m having an issue with a friend who needs a lot of over communication. I have a friend who is big on radical honesty and over communication ever since he had a big break up six months ago. Recently, we were on a phone call where he made a joke that I didn’t like. And I said that I didn’t like the joke. And then after a bit of talking, he exited the conversation and hung up kind of abruptly. The next day he called to apologize for making the joke. He said that he was really worried that I thought he was a bad person. And in the future he suggested that, when I hear a joke I don’t like, I ask him, ‘What did you mean by that?’”

NICOLE: “Personally, I think ‘What did you mean by that?’ equates to fighting words. But neither here nor there, I think it is a little exhausting having a full conversation every time I say, ‘Oh, I don’t like that,’ or ‘Huh, that hurt my feelings.’ I wish we can acknowledge that hurt feeling and move on. I don’t want to sit through a whole conversation where you explain where you’re coming from. Like, I know your intentions weren’t to hurt my feelings, but they were hurt. I want to be a good friend and meet this person halfway, but having to do all this conversational gymnastics and explicitly saying, ‘I’m not mad at you,’ or ‘I don’t think you’re a bad person,’ over and over again makes me feel like a little like this person’s parent and not their friend. I want to be accommodating, but I’m not sure what to do. Let me know what y’all think. Tips and tricks appreciated.” Trips? Tripped right over all those words. I think you could say just that to your friend. Just be like, “Hey, I don’t think you’re a bad person. I’m going to tell you that I didn’t love that joke. It hurt my feelings. I know your intentions weren’t to hurt my feelings, but at this moment, I just would love an apology. And I don’t really need to know where you’re coming from. And, like, again, I’m not attacking you as a person. I just want my feelings to be acknowledged that they were hurt, and then we can move on. And later, maybe I’ll feel like hearing your explanation. But right now, I don’t want to.” If this person is into radical honesty, you know?

SASHEER: Yeah, it seems like, if they really are, they would want to hear your feelings or, like, know how you feel about the thing. Yeah. And I guess the person who wrote in is not wrong for saying, “This is just how I feel about this joke. And I did not like it.” And then I think the person requesting, like, “Let’s talk it out,” instead of just saying I don’t like it… I think I kind of understand what they’re saying because, like, they might have a thing where… Who knows? I don’t want to, like, psychoanalyze this person. I don’t know them at all. But if it’s like they are a person who has been criticized for years and, when anyone says anything that they don’t like, it feels like they are a bad person, that’s their own shit. And you are not responsible for it. But also if they’re saying this is a thing that happens with them, that’s also like helpful information for you, too. If criticism feels like you saying they’re a bad person– Well, you don’t want them to feel like a bad person. So it is okay for you to navigate how to communicate with them in a way that you’re still telling them how you feel, but they don’t shut down and can’t hear you anymore. So it’s like, “Yes, that is exhausting.” But also, this is your friend. And this is a person that you want to continue to communicate with. And if it gets to a point where it’s like you feel like you’re doing all the work and all the communicational gymnastics to get this person to not be triggered and, like, rush off the phone, that sucks. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them telling you, “This is a thing that would be helpful to me, to keep listening to you when you are critiquing me,” if that makes sense.

NICOLE: I think that makes sense. But I do feel a little bit on the side of the person who wrote in because I feel like I’ve been the type of person who’s like, “Oh, I didn’t mean that.” And then all that person just wanted was an apology, and I guess I, like, don’t want to feel like I’m the bad person or that I intentionally hurt their feelings. So I’m like, “Let me just get it out.” But like, they’re my friend or whatever, and they know I’m not a bad person. They know I wasn’t trying to hurt their feelings. They just want their feelings acknowledged that they were hurt. So yeah, I get that. But I also get, like, “Oh, I feel triggered. That’s why I want you to say, ‘What did you mean by that?’” But I do feel like “What do you mean by that?” is fighting words. I do.

SASHEER: I’m trying to think. If I said a joke, and you’re like, “What did you mean by that?” I guess it maybe depends on the tone, but I feel like I would be like, “Oh, she wants an explanation of, like, what I meant by this,” where maybe then I could explain it. But if it’s just like, “Oh I didn’t like that,” then I’d be like, “Oh, but then maybe she didn’t get it.” And now this feels like she didn’t like the joke. She thinks I am bad. She thinks I did an offensive thing. It sucks, you know?

NICOLE: Yeah, but I feel like if it’s like, “Oh, I didn’t like that,” you’d go, “Oh, I’m sorry. Did I hurt your feelings? I’m sorry. Do you want an explanation?” “No I don’t.” “Okay.” Because then if you say a joke and it’s like, “What did you mean by that?” I think I would automatically get a little defensive. I don’t know. I can’t think of, like, a dumb joke. But, like, if it was like a personal joke, then I’m on the defense. So I think that friend is asking what you mean by that to be then triggered to be defensive about this joke as opposed to just being like, “hey, I didn’t love it. I’m not attacking you as a person. Can we just let sleeping dogs sleep or something?” but I do get it. And communication is annoying, but, like, necessary.

SASHEER: Yeah, I’m, like, not more on anyone’s side. I think everyone’s trying to communicate the best they can. And I do understand what the writer’s saying about, like, they don’t want to be this person’s parent. They want to be their friend. Yeah. I think you just have to navigate, like, what you’re willing to communicate. And if it starts feeling like too much, you can even communicate that and be like, “Yeah, I don’t actually want to have to manage your shit. You don’t have to phrase it that way, of course.

NICOLE: No, say it just like that. “I don’t like to manage your shit.”

SASHEER: Yeah, but it’s also okay to say, “I actually don’t need to talk more. If I say this hurt my feelings, I can just say that. I don’t have to actually say more than that or ask you to dissect that. This is what happened.”

NICOLE: Yeah. Tough. But solved?

SASHEER: We’ll say it’s solved.

NICOLE: We have an email address that you can write letters to. Our email is nicoleandsasheer@gmail.com. Or you can call or leave a voice note at (424) 645-7003.

SASHEER: We also have merch at podswag.com/best friends.

NICOLE: We have transcripts for our new episodes. Check them out on our show page at earwolf.com.

SASHEER: Lastly, don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That is the easiest way to support this show!

NICOLE: So long, Sasheer.

SASHEER: So long, Nicole.