EP. 144 — Queer Feminist Pagan Yuletide

[00:01:24] CHRIS: Hello and Merry Christmas, all my Wiccans, Pagans and Satanists. It’s Beautiful/Anonymous. One hour. One phone call. No names. No holds barred.

[00:01:38] THEME MUSIC: I’d rather go one-on-one. I think it’ll be more fun and I’ll get to know you and you’ll get to know me.

[00:01:49] CHRIS: Hello everybody. Chris Gethard here welcoming you to another episode of Beautiful/Anonymous. Hey, Merry Christmas. The release date of this episode of 12/25/18. Not everybody’s listening to it on Christmas. Some of you guys are. I just want to say happy holidays. If you, if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas. If you don’t, happy holidays in general. I have to imagine that if you are listening on Christmas and you’re a Beautiful/Anonymous fan maybe you’re a little stressed out, maybe you just need a little reprieve from all the holiday craziness. So this is an hour where I’m happy to be with you on your holiday, providing just an hour of a, you know, having some solitary time with a nice laid back phone call. Speaking of phone calls, last week’s episode was the 28 year old guy who’s in college. I had a lot of fun. I got to say, one of the comments made me laugh so hard. Someone in the Facebook group Beautiful/Anonymous: The Community said, “I thought I tuned into Beautiful/Anonymous. Turns out I accidentally listened to an episode of Car Talk.” There was a lot of car talk that episode. That one made me laugh out loud. I wanted to let you know about some things we have coming up. Our final episode of the Beautiful/Follow-ups series we’re doing at Stitcher Premium, that is out on Friday. It’s a very special one. Stitcherpremium.com/stories. Use the promo code stories. You get a free month. You can now binge them all starting Friday. They’re all out there. We got a double episode. We got OTL. You might remember this from years ago. OTL was in a relationship, really had found that he found his one true love. We get OTL and the one true love on the phone. We have a three way call to follow up that’s a very fun call. So we’re merging that with a 15 minute bonus follow up. One of the more intense calls we’ve ever had, Prison Bound. That’s right. The caller who is about to go to federal prison, we talk to her in federal prison. It is a very intense 15 minutes. That’s how long you’re allowed to talk on a federal prison pay phone. You have got to hear it. You get a twofer. That’s my Christmas present to you, a twofer, on the Beautiful/Follow-ups. Next week, on Tuesday, you’re going to hear we’re doing, we’re making it an annual tradition, the New Year’s Resolutions episode. Asked a ton of guys to call in with your New Year’s resolutions. So that will be next week’s episode as we kick off the new year right. And thank you for this year. I want to say it so genuinely. Thanks to everybody who called, everybody who listened. And especially everybody who I got to meet out there on the road. I go and do these appearances, whether it’s stand up or book signings or Beautiful/Anonymous tapings, and you guys come out, you say hello. I am so, so lucky that I get to do this gig that brings all of you guys into my life. I mean it. It’s nice, and you guys give good hugs. All right. This week’s episode we followed up with someone from last year’s New Year’s resolution episode. Jared had that idea, I thought it was a great one, somebody who left a New Year’s resolution last year. We’re gonna hear how 2018 treated him. And I’m so thrilled that this is our Christmas episode, because we descend into a conversation where I actually personally talk about Satan. Satanism comes up on a Christmas episode, which is very appropriate for me and for the show. And what a way to end a great year. Thank you guys so much for listening and having my back. Enjoy.

[00:04:58] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful/Anonymous. A beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host. [beep]

[00:05:06] CALLER: Hello?

[00:05:08] CHRIS: Hello.

[00:05:09] CALLER: Hello?

[00:05:12] CHRIS: Hi, how are you?

[00:05:15] CALLER: Umm…who is this?

[00:05:20] CHRIS: My name’s Chris Gethard. I’m a podcaster. I was trying to reach someone I had spoken to before, but I think I may have dialed the wrong number?

[00:05:29] CALLER: Good possibility. Who are you looking for?

[00:05:33] CHRIS: I’m looking for a young lady who last year called my podcast and told me she was planning on coming out of the closet to her family, and we were going to call and see how it went. We were going to organize the call.

[00:05:46] FEMALE IN BACKGROUND: Oh man.

[00:05:48] CALLER: Oh, yeah. She might have a different number, though, man.

[00:05:52] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:05:53] CALLER: But you’re good.

[00:05:53] CHRIS: I’m getting that sense. How are you doing?

[00:05:58] CALLER: I’m doing great.

[00:06:00] CHRIS: That’s good. Anything you want to talk about?

[00:06:05] CALLER: Um, no?

[00:06:07] CHRIS: All right, all right. Oh, did he hang up finally? That’s good. That’s good.

[00:06:17] [ring]

[00:06:22] CALLER: Hello?

[00:06:23] CHRIS: Hello?

[00:06:24] CALLER: Hi!

[00:06:25] CHRIS: Hi, how are ya?

[00:06:27] CALLER: Good, how are you?

[00:06:29] CHRIS: I’m good. But I tell you what, we just mixed up a couple of digits in your number. We tried earlier.

[00:06:34] CALLER: Oh, you’re ………..such a? something?

[00:06:35] CHRIS: We called some dude, and he, uh, he’s very confused.

[00:06:40] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:06:42] CHRIS: He’s very confused. It sounded like he might have been a little stoned.

[00:06:49] CALLER: That’s funny, my sister’s phone number’s just a couple of digits off too, so.

[00:06:54] CHRIS: Oh.

[00:06:54] CALLER: That would have been funny if you called her.

[00:06:56] CHRIS: That would have been wild. Although I’ll, like, yeah, he was, I was like, hi and he’s like, hello? and then I was like, yeah, hi. He’s like, what, what’s going on? And I was like, I’m trying to reach somebody who I talked to on my podcast a year ago. And he’s like, oh, who is it? And I was like, well, it was someone who mentioned to me that they were planning on coming out to their family. And he’s like, that’s not me, man. I was like, yeah, I know, I figured that out. I figured that out, dude.

[00:07:26] CALLER: Yup.

[00:07:27] CHRIS: But Yeah. But it’s, now I think we’re on the line with the right person.

[00:07:31] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like me.

[00:07:34] CHRIS: How are you?

[00:07:35] CALLER: I’m good. How are you? How was your year?

[00:07:40] CHRIS: I’m, uh, I’m doing good.

[00:07:43] CALLER: Good!

[00:07:44] CHRIS: I’m doing good. Yeah, feeling good. It’s been a crazy year. It’s funny because we’ve been doing all these follow up calls. And this is not quite that because, ah, we, you and I talked for like a minute.

[00:07:54] CALLER: Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:56] CHRIS: Yeah. So I feel like we’re coming in fresh.

[00:07:59] CALLER: Yup, yeah. Yeah, we talked for a minute and then the phone cut out. So you called me back.

[00:08:05] CHRIS: Mmhmm

[00:08:07] CALLER: And then apologized for the phone cutting out.

[00:08:11] CHRIS: Sounds like me.

[00:08:12] CALLER: And that was it. Yup.

[00:08:13] CHRIS: Alright. So yeah.

[00:08:15] CALLER: So now it’s a year later. We gotta talk and there’s a whole year of things that have happened.

[00:08:21] CHRIS: I can’t wait to hear about them. Where should.

[00:08:24] CALLER: Yeah, so I think.

[00:08:24] CHRIS: Where should we begin?

[00:08:26] CALLER: I think this is actually the first year that I fulfilled my New Year’s resolution.

[00:08:33] CHRIS: All right.

[00:08:33] CALLER: So there’s that.

[00:08:35] CHRIS: How’d it go?

[00:08:35] CALLER: Well I didn’t really, well I didn’t really like technically come out to my family cause I think coming out is weird. I don’t really think it’s necessary. It’s like I wanted to take a male. So I’m a female. So I want to take a male partner to my family’s house and be like, oh, I’m dating men. So.

[00:08:57] CHRIS: Mmhmm.

[00:08:57] CALLER: I just, ah, brought my partner to my nephew’s birthday party and introduced her just by her name. And then everybody just kind of assumed and I didn’t really have to come out to anybody in my family because they all kind of knew. But we had to come out to people in her family. So that was, that was fun. Like her parents came, but not the immediate family or the like, grandparents and the aunts and uncles and stuff.

[00:09:31] CHRIS: Right, right.

[00:09:32] CALLER: So. Yeah.

[00:09:34] CHRIS: So, how.

[00:09:34] CALLER: Yeah, so that was interesting.

[00:09:36] CHRIS: And uh, I, I, if I remember right, I think you said you were a little worried about your dad’s reaction, when last we spoke.

[00:09:42] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:09:43] CHRIS: How’d that turn out?

[00:09:44] CALLER: Yeah. That was, it wasn’t good.

[00:09:46] CHRIS: Oh no. Oh no!

[00:09:48] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, so my dad was at the party and he just kind of like, he talked to my partner and everything. But then, just, like because I’m, I’m not super close to my dad. I used to be growing up, but he’s kind of been distant throughout the years. So we are trying to all reconnect when my nephew was born. And then, you know, he’d like talk to my partner, and like, this past year we tried to do Father’s Day stuff with him and everything, but just the things he posts on Facebook and…he’s like a huge Trump supporter and doesn’t really agree with LGBTQ community stuff. And yeah, it’s like he will bash me just like on Facebook, like he’ll post things like saying, oh, I love my daughters. And then we call that Facebook fake. So he’s really Facebook fake. But then on anything I post, he’ll respond to it and then say like, oh, well, now I’m like sad. Like, you’re hurting my feelings. Like you never come see me or talk to me. And we’re like, what are you even saying? So it’s like you’re bashing me and my community, and yeah. So, yeah, I just decided to cut ties with him.

[00:11:06] CHRIS: Oh, no. That’s the opposite of what I was hoping for when we followed up with you.

[00:11:13] CALLER: But, that was for the best.

[00:11:16] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:11:17] CALLER: Because if you kept the ties then I’ll be more stressed, and it’s.

[00:11:21] CHRIS: Yeah, for sure. And I get that you gotta. You gotta, you know, you gotta live a happy life and a stress free life and, and define what drama you want to include for yourself. But I’m very sorry to hear that.

[00:11:36] CALLER: Yeah, and. That’s right. I still hang out. So like his, both of his parents passed away. And like, I was really close to both of them. So after they passed away, like, it’s not as difficult to kind of cut ties with him. But I’m still close to like my aunts and uncles and stuff on that side of the family. And we’re doing like, Christmas tomorrow with my, like with that side of the family, and my dad hasn’t been invited for years, so.

[00:12:04] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:12:04] CALLER: The whole, yeah, the whole family’s kind of.

[00:12:07] CHRIS: So this, this is not you and he in a vacuum. This, this guy maybe has, there’s some drama that extends in different directions too, it sounds like.

[00:12:14] CALLER: Yeah. Correct.

[00:12:16] CHRIS: That’s a shame.

[00:12:16] CALLER: Yup.

[00:12:17] CHRIS: Can I ask you, so, because I mean, I think that answers it. It sounds, it sounds like, like we just said. There’s maybe some drama that follows. Do you think it would have been as bad if Facebook wasn’t involved? It’s a thing I’ve been thinking about a lot lately.

[00:12:35] CALLER: Yeah, I feel like if Facebook wasn’t involved, I just wouldn’t have spoken to him since I was like, 12 years old.

[00:12:41] CHRIS: Oh, wow.

[00:12:42] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:12:43] CHRIS: So Facebook kept the ball in the air that maybe you would have, been able to maintain something at all and then ultimately proved an undoing because of his behavior.

[00:12:52] CALLER: Yeah, yeah. Because I remember when I graduated high school. Because I graduated high school in 2012 and my mom had to call my dad, and because they’re separated and like, beg him to go. And he like, showed up and then like immediately left after. And it was the same thing when I graduated college in 2016. So my mom called him and begged him and was like, it would be really great if you showed up. Because I was the first person in my whole family to ever graduate college. So it was like a huge deal. And like, I had family coming out, like my aunts and uncles from different parts of the country. Or, diff…yeah, different parts of the country. And he just couldn’t drive 30 minutes to my college to…

[00:13:42] CHRIS: [whispers] Alright.

[00:13:43] CALLER: Come see me graduate. So it’s like stuff like that.

[00:13:45] CHRIS: Yeah, so this one isn’t Zuckerberg’s fault. This is not…

[00:13:48] CALLER: Yeah, its…

[00:13:48] CHRIS: This is not social media ripping us asunder as a society as I saw it in my mind. This is, there’s a longstanding series of issues.

[00:13:57] CALLER: Yup, yeah.

[00:13:59] CHRIS: But you, are you happier now? Do you feel happy?

[00:14:01] CALLER: Oh, yeah.

[00:14:02] CHRIS: Good. Good.

[00:14:04] CALLER: Yeah. I know my partner still tries to get me to connect with my dad and stuff because they have things in common, because my partner is super open and like, will talk to anybody about anything. Very extrovert and I’m complete opposite. Like super introvert, don’t want to socialize. Just want to go to a party and eat food. And that’s all I want to do. Like, I don’t want to talk to anybody about any of their beliefs unless, like, I know them, pretty much? Or, like face to face conversations, really, give me anxiety. Like I freak out, and start panicking.

[00:14:40] CHRIS: You and me both, you and me both.

[00:14:40] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:14:40] CHRIS: I’m good on the phone but God forbid we can make eye contact.

[00:14:47] CALLER: My partner can do that and she can talk to anybody/ Like we have, so this past year, I moved in with my partner. So we came out to my family, kind of, if you can call it that. They just accepted me. And then came out to her family and then we moved in together. So we have a house and two dogs. And right now her sister lives with us and her childhood best friend. So it’s like four women living in the same house and our sister’s dog. So we have three dogs and four women in the tiny little house, which is insane. But our neighbor is like the biggest, uh, like, stereotypical redneck, essentially. Like he goes hunting all the time and like, huge Trump supporter, blares his country music, has this giant man cave in the, in his backyard, and my partner will go and talk to them and they are best friends. So like, I was a little, like, iffy about him at first because I was like, oh my gosh does he know that we are, we’re a thing? So when I came over and first met him, he was like, oh, just so you know, like, I, I know that you guys, you guys are a thing. And I don’t understand it. But I mean, you guys are cool.

[00:16:12] CHRIS: [laughs]

[00:16:12] CALLER: So we’ll just like, sit across the fence and just talk to each other. And it’s just like he’s the coolest. And like we got a Pride flag for this past June to hang up and like, so my partner and I are very short and we couldn’t really get the flag pole to hang on the side of the house. So he came over and he’s like, like I said, this big burly redneck guy. And he’s like hanging up our Pride flag. And everyone in our neighborhood is like, what is going on? So it’s just like, like the whole you can’t read a book by the cover thing. Because the friendship that we have with him is just the funniest thing in the world. And he’ll come over and like fix things in, in the house and we’ll just like pay him in a case of beer. And it’s just like, okay.

[00:17:02] CHRIS: I love that story.

[00:17:04] CALLER: Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:05] CHRIS: Did he, now was he aware of the cultural significance of the Pride flag as he was hanging it?

[00:17:10] CALLER: Yes. Yes.

[00:17:11] CHRIS: So there were cracks being made. Does he say things, is he like, aah the boys down at the shop knew I was doing this they’d be giving me shit. Is, are there things like that being said?

[00:17:22] CALLER: Yeah. And then there was when, he was like, well the only flag I’ll hang on my house is the American flag. But there’s the Pride flag that looks like an American flag. So we like, showed him that and we were like, oh, we’re gonna buy you this to thank you for your troubles. And he was like, I’m not hanging that up.

[00:17:42] CHRIS: I do think it’s funny though, that you listed a stereotypical redneck side, having a man cave, as a sign of a, I think there’s a lot of non, I think there’s a lot of people who aren’t the traditional rednecks who still have a sweet ass big screen in the basement, is a man cave?

[00:17:59] CALLER: Well, this thing is not. It’s outside and it’s like, it’s not attached to the house. It’s like he build, built his deck outside that has, his like, a big ceiling fan. I think there’s a keggerator in there. It has a bar like a flat screen TV, a dartboard and everything. And like he shoots his guns and stuff and like his bow and arrow, and like he has like a little target thing back there. And I’m like, what is it?

[00:18:28] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s–

[00:18:29] CALLER: It’s the craziest thing. Yeah.

[00:18:31] CHRIS: That’s a lot different than my dad watching Steven Seagal movies in the basement once in a while.

[00:18:36] CALLER: Nope, this is outdoors.

[00:18:37] CHRIS: I love it.

[00:18:38] CALLER: And all types of weather he’s, he’s out there.

[00:18:41] CHRIS: I love it!

[00:18:42] CALLER: Yeah. It’s so–

[00:18:44] CHRIS: So in 2018 you, you lost touch with your dad, but you gained a new friend in the agro, ultra masculine–

[00:18:53] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:18:53] CHRIS: –Redneck identifying neighbor who has become your de-facto handy man.

[00:18:59] CALLER: Yup, pretty much.

[00:19:00] CHRIS: That’s awesome.

[00:19:02] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:19:03] CHRIS: That’s awesome.

[00:19:04] CALLER: Yeah, he’s a great dude.

[00:19:07] CHRIS: Now, you said you had the more, like a more formal coming out to your partner’s family.

[00:19:12] CALLER: Yeah, so, my partner is Catholic.

[00:19:16] CHRIS: Mmhmm.

[00:19:17] CALLER: And like, I think the story goes like she didn’t really come out to her family. Like, she came out to her immediate family, but, like her sister was the one that kind of told her mom? There’s something like that. Like, her sister was upset about something and her mom was asking her sister what was wrong, and her mom was like, oh, is so-and-so gay? And she’s like, her sister just didn’t say anything. So then her mom kind of knew. And like, if you look at her stereotypically, you can just assume that she would be gay. So it’s just funny that like she, she thinks it’s surprising when people guess that she’s gay. Which I’m like I don’t think it’s surprising at all because I knew the second I met you, but okay.

[00:20:04] CHRIS: [laughs]

[00:20:07] CALLER: So like her, I think her immediate family kind of knew. But her grandfather is the one that she was really nervous to tell and that, that was Pap. And he lives in Michigan and he’s like Polish Catholic and like very, like goes to church all the time and like very, very Catholic. And she just, she was like, terrified to tell him. And I was going up there and I was like, okay, well, like, I’ve met him multiple times. He’s come down to where we live. I’ve gone up there. At the moment I was just the roommate that like, we share a bedroom. So it’s like, OK, well, like. Obviously, it’s clear that I’m not just a roommate, so you should just like come clean and like, tell him. And so she called him up and was like, oh, well, so-and-so is not just my, my friend or my roommate. She’s my girlfriend. And he was just like, oh, really? And like, he’s like, oh, I love you just the same and all this stuff. And then at the very end, he was like, you know, I’ll pray for you. So like one of those things that like, he doesn’t really agree, but he’s accepting of her, which is really great because he’s like a great dude. But the funniest part is when she was like trying to come out to me is like, yeah, I only know two gay couples. So there is these, this lesbian couple that are really great and they’re super rich and really well off. So you can end up like them. Or there are those two gay guys that like got really bad into drugs and they overdosed. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s…Yup, so either we’re gonna be really rich or on drugs apparently is what her grandpa thinks, so…

[00:22:08] CHRIS: Wow.

[00:22:08] CALLER: Yeah, stuff like he thinks that gays do. So.

[00:22:12] CHRIS: Well, He’s, his, his. His knowledge and understanding of the gay community is clearly a grass, seemingly a grassroots effort that will happen one couples at, personal experience at a time. That will–

[00:22:27] CALLER: Yup

[00:22:27] CHRIS: –Come to define the borders of an entire portion of society.

[00:22:33] CALLER: Yup. Yeah but, like her family is still super traditional and like, she’s very close to her family. I have like this crazy broken family that so many have siblings and I only have one full blooded sibling, but five sisters and like this, this crazy family that I just don’t feel the need to tell everybody every little detail of my life. But she’s like the kind of person that’s like, oh, now we have to tell this person we can’t post this thing on Instagram because this person doesn’t know that I’m dating a female. So it’s very. It’s difficult, but it’s fun.

[00:23:15] CHRIS: Yeah. And how is it? And, and just doing the math in my head, when you graduated school. It sounds like you’re in your mid 20s?

[00:23:25] CALLER: Yes.

[00:23:25] CHRIS: Unless you held back a couple of years. So how. What’s it like the first year? So this is the first, this is the first year that you’ve totally, totally just said, let’s let our guards down. Let this just be part of what people know about us from, from the outset. That’s gotta be–

[00:23:46] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:23:47] CHRIS: That’s gotta be it’s got to be an interesting change.

[00:23:49] CALLER: Yeah, yeah. It’s wild. And like a lot of my friends there, they were very taken aback, I guess, because they a dated male for almost five years and everybody thought we were going to get married. And it was like this, like, big deal when we broke up because it just came out of nowhere, because we were like the perfect couple. Never fought, never did any of that. And everybody was just shocked. And I can’t like, I came out to him, probably our second year of dating that I was, I identified as queer. So I was like, oh, I’m interested in pretty much everybody that’s a human. Which is like personality based, is what I’m interested in. So when we broke up, like everybody, like, freaked out and then I had, like, my crazy, slutty year, I guess. Which then everyone kind of knew me by that, which was wild, and then I just like settled down. People were like, what is up with you and like you’re, you dated this guy for like five years and then really you like go and you sleep around. You have like all these other partners with all these different like, genders and everything. And then you’re like, you are now pretty much domesticated with the female and all this stuff. I’m like, yep, that’s me. Yup.

[00:25:15] CHRIS: You’re like, welcome to 2018. Things have changed. Let’s everybody take a deep breath and realize that this is the world and that.

[00:25:25] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:25:25] CHRIS: It’s fine.

[00:25:27] CALLER: Yeah, and everybody’s just so confused. It’s like, I don’t know how to explain anything to you either. I was like, I have some stories if anybody wants,

[00:25:37] CHRIS: Which I do, which I do. So your, your ex partner who you dated for five years. So he was aware that this, he, he did not feel blindsided. He did not feel like he’d been living a lie. You had been upfront and said, hey so, just so you know, this is where my head’s at.

[00:25:53] CALLER: Yeah. And he was the only one that I told until I really came out to my family. Like bringing my current partner.

[00:26:01] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:26:02] CALLER: Yeah, so.

[00:26:03] CHRIS: Yeah. You still in touch with that guy at all or no?

[00:26:07] CALLER: No, yeah. Which is wild because we were best friends.

[00:26:17] CHRIS: [music transition] Let’s go ahead and pause right there. Why? Because we have to pause at some point. We’ve got ads, ads to bring you guys and, hey if, it’s Christmas Day. If there’s one thing we’re all aware of on this day, it’s that commercialism is real. So let’s hear some ads, alright?. We got sponsors. They got promo codes. When you use the promo codes, it makes the show look real good. So check them out. Maybe you need a late holiday gift and one of these things will fit the bill. We’ll be right back with more Beautiful/Anonymous.

[00:26:45] [AD BREAK]

[00:28:36] CHRIS: [music transition] Thanks again to all of our sponsors. Now let’s get back to the phone call.

[00:28:42] CHRIS: You still in touch with that guy at all or no?.

[00:28:45] CALLER: No, yeah. Which is wild because your best friends. And it was just like, he started dating somebody else. I didn’t like that person. And then that person didn’t like me and then pretty much made us cut ties. So, yeah, it was just sad.

[00:29:05] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:29:06] CALLER: But about a, about two years ago, I guess? I got him a job as a tattoo artist and I went to go see him last year. No, I guess that was two years ago, because it was when he was first starting and he gave me a tattoo. And that was like the last I talked him.

[00:29:23] CHRIS: Wow. So you have a permanent reminder of your, of your past with this guy.

[00:29:29] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:29:30] CHRIS: Well now, I would love. I’m going to assume. I going to assume the tattoo is like something meaningful or maybe just even something like a visual and artistic that only, you know, the private meaning of or the backstory of. I would love if it was a historically bad tattoo, like if it was like, you know, if I was like Calvin pissing on something or, you know, something from an Asian alphabet that you didn’t research enough and it actually has a double meaning that’s humiliating. Is there any chance that it’s a really bad tattoo that is a testament to your former half decade of companionship?

[00:30:03] CALLER: Nope, unfortunately.

[00:30:04] CHRIS: Dammit.

[00:30:04]:CALLER: It’s actually really sweet. I know. It’s really sweet tattoo.

[00:30:09] CHRIS: Just hoping it would be one of the minions or something like that. Yeah, I just got a minion. [laughs]

[00:30:16] CALLER: I, I, I really want, I told him that I wanted to get an ass tat and he was like, no.

[00:30:21] CHRIS: [laughs]

[00:30:21] CALLER: Like, come on. He was like, no, I’m not doing that. I was like, come on. Like, we dated for so long. What can’t you do that?

[00:30:31] CHRIS: So you, so you got something meaningful instead. I guess that’s better.

[00:30:35] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:38] CHRIS: Now, can I ask a potentially insensitive question?

[00:30:42] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:30:43] CHRIS: There are people who are listening who might be going, and, and I’m interested to just hear your take on it. There’s some people who are listening who I, who I would bet are maybe thinking to themselves or wondering themselves, well, you said you were queer and you were interested in people of all types. But maybe now that you’re out of the relationship with a guy that looks more traditional on the surface and you’re dating woman, are you, are you just a lesbian now? And I think that’s a, I wonder, is it something that you feel like you were sorting things out and you’ve now settled in some way feels more natural? Or do you still identify as like, no I’m attracted to everybody?

[00:31:16] CALLER: No, I’m definitely still attracted to everybody. I feel like if my current partner and I were to, like, ever split up, I would probably stick to women like, as like holding a long term relationship for a while. But it’s really just like personality wise, like whoever comes along.

[00:31:35] CHRIS: I think that’s cool.

[00:31:37] CALLER: Yeah. It’s just, yup, that’s about it.

[00:31:43] CHRIS: I think that’s cool. And I’m glad I asked because that, that’s the stereotype, right? That’s the stereotype is that you like, you date and something that looks a little bit more like what you see on, on TV and movies growing up. And then as you get more comfortable with yourself, you start to say, oh well maybe I’m this or maybe I’m that. And then that’s, that’s, I think, what a lot of people have in their heads. But I don’t think that that’s, I think that’s some people’s stories. But I don’t think that’s a real story anymore. I think. I think we’re heading towards a world where you can just go, eh, this is what I’m feeling. And even if you go. And a month from now, I might feel differently and that’s gonna be okay too. I think that’s a pretty cool world.

[00:32:22] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, it’s weird cause we met on the dating app Bumble.

[00:32:28 CHRIS: Mmhmm.

[00:32:29] CALLER: And like she gets super embarrassed by telling people that and I don’t know why. Because I was like, dude, that’s literally being a female trying to meet other females. Like if I would go to a bar. Cause I look pretty thin. But like I would go to a bar and try to hit on a female and be like, oh like that’s a really nice outfit. They’re like, oh, thank you. I got it at Target. And like, oh, okay. It’s like, no I’m trying to flirt with you. I’m not, I’m not trying to like just compliment your outfit. Like I’m trying to, you know, flirt. So it, it’s difficult, like female to female relationships, unless you go to like a gay bar or something, but.

[00:33:09] CHRIS: Right. Is Bumble–

[00:33:10] CALLER: It’s so hard to find.

[00:33:12] CHRIS: Is Bumble the app where the female has to initiate contact if it’s, if it’s between men and women?

[00:33:17] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:33:18] CHRIS: It is, right?

[00:33:19] CALLER: Yes.

[00:33:20] CHRIS: That’s–

[00:33:20] CALLER: And then women when it’s whichever one wants to initiate first, yeah.

[00:33:25] CHRIS: –Wow. I, I, I, I don’t, I think I’ve mentioned this on the show before. I was a, there was online dating. There were, there were websites when I was single, but I never did it. You know, being a comedian, you just kind of do shows and bounce around in you’re always running up in bars. And you meet people and–

[00:33:41] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:33:42] CHRIS: –And especially me, I’m not a very confident person. Anyone who listens to this show has heard the many layers of my self-esteem issues unfold over and over again to the point can I mention. Let me mention Jared, I haven’t even mentioned this to you. I’ve now talked on the show enough about how I’m insecure about my looks and that my wife, like, will pump me up and doesn’t like that I tell somebody self-deprecating jokes. And I found I’ve kind of fucked myself as a comedian because now I do shows and there’s Beautiful/Anonymous fans there and they don’t, they like boo the self-deprecating. I hear them going like, no, when I get self-deprecating and I’m like, oh no, this is like my whole career. This is my, that’s the money maker!

[00:34:20] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:34:21] CHRIS: It’s me making these jokes. But yeah, the apps were not a thing when I was single. And there’s a part of me that’s so mad about it. I mean, there’s a part of me. that’s like, thank God because I would have spent my whole life playing a video game with my dating life. But there’s a part of me, I would have been the king of the apps.

[00:34:37] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:34:37] CHRIS: If all you have to do is give a couple of witty, couple witty back and forth things to entice someone. And you don’t have to actually, like, see their reaction in person or make eye contact while you do it? I would have crushed that. That’s built for me.

[00:34:50] CALLER: Yeah, it’s the best.

[00:34:52]  CHRIS: Yeah. You like the apps?

[00:34:54] CALLER: Mmhmm.

[00:34:54] CHRIS: Did you have go-to lines? Did you ever go to a, openers, as they say?

[00:34:59] CALLER: No.

[00:35:01] CHRIS: Nah, you–

[00:35:01] CALLER: Never.

[00:35:01] CHRIS: –Case by case, human by human, just like your overall dating life. Let me treat this–

[00:35:06] CALLER: Yup.

[00:35:06] CHRIS: –As an individual who I will–

[00:35:08] CALLER: Yes.

[00:35:08] CHRIS: –Express my attraction to.

[00:35:09] CALLER: It’s, if you, if somebody had like a, a cool photo or like a dog in their photo or if they’re on a boat, I would open with like, oh, like, do you like to be on the water a lot? Or do you? Is that your dog or is it your friend? Or something like that. So–

[00:35:28] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:35:28] CALLER: Yeah, I guess it would, case by case, but.

[00:35:30] CHRIS: You just go with like an open and honest question that demonstrates interest in something they’ve tried to display publicly. That’s a good strategy.

[00:35:36] CALLER: Yup. Yeah.

[00:35:38] CHRIS: I would have been there like, hey, I don’t look like much, but I’m really fucking funny. Let’s hang out. I’ll make you laugh. That would have been mine, I would have said shit like that.

[00:35:46] CALLER: Yeah. That’ve been good.

[00:35:48] CHRIS: I think that would’ve worked. Who knows? But if I was on those apps when I was. In 2012, when I was already, I was having my year of us sleeping around? 2011, 2012. If I was on those apps and when I was living in Brooklyn doing all the shows in Brooklyn, oh my God, my life would have been over. It would have been over.

[00:36:05] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:36:05] CHRIS: Wouldn’t have been good for this guy. So what else?

[00:36:09]  CALLER: Yeah, it was like. So like when I tell people what, she doesn’t like saying that we met on the dating app, but when we met, we realized we have so many friends in common. Our mutual friends like play in the same band with each other. So we are like always at the same bars at the same time. Like watching the same band. We would study at the same coffee shop in college and like everything was the same. And we were like, how did we not meet each other? So that’s why she’s just like, don’t tell people we met online. That’s just stupid.

[00:36:42] CHRIS: Aaah.

[00:36:43] CALLER: And I’m like, well, I think it’s hilarious. And her roommate in college was one of my friends from high school. So I would go and eat dinner with that friend from high school. And I had no idea that they were roommates. Like, we never actually met until the dating app.

[00:37:02] CHRIS: So. So, your partner feels like this was meant to be and we have to embrace the fact that this is a story where we had all these common connections and it was just meant to work out. And wants to just–

[00:37:11] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:37:12] CHRIS: –Conveniently not give Bumble the credit they deserve in facilitating that.

[00:37:16] CALLER: Pretty much, yup.

[00:37:18] CHRIS: Have you ever said to your partner, don’t you think Bumble deserves a little bit of a pat on the back? Story of hope for others? What if we revealed right now that this whole episode was secretly sponsored by Bumble?

[00:37:28] CALLER: [laughs] That would be–

[00:37:29] CHRIS: Secret Bumble sponsorship. We can’t get that Bumble cash.

[00:37:32] CALLER: Well maybe we can just write it to Bumble and then, you know, we’d get a bunch of money and pay off our student loans and then we wouldn’t have to worry about that.

[00:37:39] CHRIS: Ooh! If anyone from Bumble’s listening and wants to pay off the student loans of this couple that met via your app, let me know. I’ll help facilitate it.

[00:37:50] CALLER: Yeah, ’cause she’s, she’s a high school teacher and I’m an artist. So.

[00:37:55] CHRIS: Oh, good luck with that.

[00:37:56] CALLER: Yeah we’re–

[00:37:57] CHRIS: That’s weird that you have other roommates. That’s weird–

[00:38:00] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:38:01] CHRIS: –That you have multiple room, what’d you say, you have two other roommates besides you guys?

[00:38:03] CALLER: Yeah. Two.

[00:38:04] CHRIS: Yeah. Artist and a high school teacher. Yep. You need two roommates. That’s the world we’re living in, in this gig economy.

[00:38:12] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:14] CHRIS: Where everybody can have four jobs and none of them actually pay your mortgage.

[00:38:19] CALLER: I know. And I’m like, I, I work in a factory. Like in my field, ceramic factory. And I also teach like, ceramic and printmaking and everything at a nonprofit. And I’m like, still don’t have enough to like pay my actual bills. Like my student loan payment is four times my rent a month.

[00:38:44] CHRIS: That’s nuts. We’re living in a backwards society. This is why we need. The socialists to take over. People are gonna get mad that I just said that. You know, someone I just did an interview with, a friend of mine from Vulture who he said he thinks the reason I have a cult following as a comedian is cause I was an early poster child of the gig economy. Saying that the world has watched me be mildly successful at like six different careers. And that echoes a lot of people’s real life experiences in their lives right there.

[00:39:23] CALLER: Yeah? Yeah, Cause I’m, I’m starting up my own studio thing right now. So then that would put me at three.

[00:39:29] CHRIS: The hustle. The grind.

[00:39:30] CALLER: Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:31] CHRIS: So you do ceramics.

[00:39:33] CALLER: Yes.

[00:39:34] CHRIS: That’s cool. And how does this work? You’re an artist in ceramics. Does this mean you’re making art for display? Like for a potential gallery sales or is ceramics a form of art that’s a little bit more based on the utilitarian and that you will make items people can have in their homes that serve an actual function and use that also happen to double as your art. Go.

[00:39:57] CALLER: Yeah, pretty much all of it.

[00:39:59] CHRIS: Mmhmm.

[00:39:59] CALLER: So I specialize in tile.

[00:40:01] CHRIS: Ooh!

[00:40:01] CALLER: So I love making tile and screen printing on tile. So I use a lot of imagery that I take from like old magazines from the 50s. Like, women in like, cleaning magazines, like cleaning advertisments. And I put them in a different position other than like, cleaning. And I make them, I give them another job to do that they may actually enjoy or just like…It’s pretty much like, empowering women with my work. And like I’ll make collages with those images and screen print them on tile. So, I’ll show that work in like tile, different backsplashes and stuff. Or just like, sell individual tiles and do some street art with those. And then I still make like, mugs and everything and like plates that people buy. So it’s like functional wares that people can do.

[00:40:53] CHRIS: So it is fair to say that as an art, if you have to define yourself in one phrase as an artist, you are a, a maker of feminist tiles.

[00:41:02] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:41:03] CHRIS: I love that. I love that. And are there people, do you, are there people who have contracted you to do a whole wall in their home where there’s an entire shower that is full of imagery born of your tile work?

[00:41:16] CALLER: Not a full shower. That would be crazy because I hand make all my tiles. Like, hand roll them and everything.

[00:41:23] CHRIS: So that would have to be an extraordinarily rich person with a vision for their bathroom.

[00:41:27] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:29] CHRIS: You dream, you’re dreaming. I hear you, Wist, wistfully dreaming of that rich person coming along in your life.

[00:41:35] CALLER: I know. So if any listeners, you know, want any of that stuff. You know, hit me up. I don’t know how you’ll find me, but, yeah.

[00:41:44] CHRIS: Yeah. I’m pull…Are there many feminist tile makers in the world?

[00:41:49] CALLER: I don’t know.

[00:41:50] CHRIS: Or do–

[00:41:51] CALLER: I taught one of my favorite artists in the, his, like, my actual favorite artist ever. Like, not favorite living artists, favorite anything. Like my favorite artist. I taught her how to use screen print on tile.

[00:42:03] CHRIS: Were you fangirling out the whole time? Did you have to contain yourself?

[00:42:07] CALLER: What? Oh, oh yes. Yeah. Well, when I met her, it was in New York City. I went to a gallery show and I didn’t know she would be there. And she came up to talk to me and I just immediately started crying.

[00:42:17] CHRIS: Really? And she still–

[00:42:18] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:42:18] CHRIS: And she still opted to hang out with you.

[00:42:22] CALLER: Yeah, well, she started hugging me and she started telling me a story about like how one of her best friends, every single time they go see a movie, her best friend cries during the movie the whole time. Doesn’t matter what type of movie it is.

[00:42:33] CHRIS: Wow.

[00:42:34] CALLER: And I was just like, oh, thanks for making me feel better for crying and for, you know, making me look like a fool. But yeah. And then like, she asked me what I did. I was a student at the time and I was like a screen print on ceramics. And she’s like, oh, like, I’ve been wanting to learn how to do that. Like, can you teach me? And she took my phone and put her contact information in it. And now we’re friends.

[00:42:56] CHRIS: Damn. That’s the dream.

[00:42:57] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:00] CHRIS: That’s the dream.

[00:43:02] CALLER: Yup. Yeah.

[00:43:03] CHRIS: When peop–I, I will sometimes have people cry when they meet me. And it’s always very flattering and I always crumble into–I don’t hug or speak. I just crumble into feeling half flattered that my work has had an effect and half so ashamed that I make people cry and that that seems sad.

[00:43:25] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:26] CHRIS: And hard.

[00:43:27] CALLER: Yeah. See, I would probably cry if I met you but it’s just because I don’t know what else to do.

[00:43:32] CHRIS: That’s often

[00:43:32] CALLER: I just cr–when I meet people.

[00:43:34] CHRIS: Hey, this, ugh.

[00:43:38] CALLER: [laughs] But they’re uncomfortable. There are times where I’ll be in a restaurant and I can’t even order my meal because I’m just like, I don’t want to talk to anybody right now. I’ll just point to something on the menu.

[00:43:48] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:43:49] CALLER: So like, anything else? And I just shake my head. Nope, I’m good.

[00:43:52] CHRIS: I know that feeling. I know that feeling. Last time I cried was on Sunday. It’s Friday, 38 year old male. This is, I’m not ashamed to tell you, I cried on Sunday.

[00:44:05] CALLER: On Sunday. Oh, I think I cried this morning.

[00:44:07] CHRIS: Oh, nice.

[00:44:09] CALLER: So you’re one up on me.

[00:44:10] CHRIS: No, you’re ahead of the curve. Ahead of the curve on me.

[00:44:15] CALLER: Yeah. I, I woke up early this morning to make winter Solstice cookies.

[00:44:21] CHRIS: Really?

[00:44:22] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:44:24] CHRIS: Do you celebr-

[00:44:22] CALLER: Yeah. Celebrating Solstice tonight.

[00:44:24] CHRIS: Are you a Wiccan? Are you a Wiccan? Do you follow?

[00:44:27] CALLER: No. Pagan.

[00:44:28] CHRIS: Okay. Oh, Pagan.

[00:44:29] CALLER: Yeah, Pagan. Yeah. Different.

[00:44:29] CHRIS: Now these are things, I think that are. I won’t say the same. And I don’t know enough to, to even note the similarities. But I get the sense those are in the same corners of the world. I would imagine Wiccans and Pagans might get along.

[00:44:42] CALLER: Yeah, yeah, they do. And I mean, there are so many. So like if you say Pagan, this is how I take it. It’s such an old tra–like old religion. It is the old religion. And there’s not much written about it because a lot of stuff was burned and everything is kind of like passed down from family to family. So even people who are listening now, who are Pagan or Wiccan would be like, no, that’s not correct. And I’d be like, well, it’s also a different interpretation. But for me, like saying you’re Pagan is like saying you’re Christian and then Wiccan would be like, oh, I’m Catholic. So it’s like Catholics or Christians.

[00:45:19] CHRIS: Got it.

[00:45:20] CALLER: But Christians aren’t Catholic king of thing.

[00:45:22] CHRIS: So Pagan is the larger umbrella that contains. Now, what else besides Wiccanism would fall under the Pagan umbrella? Are there other subcategories that I might not realize are part of this Pagan family tree?

[00:45:36] CALLER: I know that there’s like, there’s certain…so like if you’re Pagan you can choose like what you follow. So you can like practice witchcraft, you don’t have to practice witchcraft. So that can follow it, follow–fall under it. There’s Satanists? Like–

[00:45:55] CHRIS: Oh.

[00:45:55] CALLER: Satan worshippers.

[00:45:56] CHRIS: The Satanists qualify in the Pagan family

[00:45:59] CALLER: Yeah, there’s just like a bunch of different, and then like, a lot of Pagans don’t believe in Satan. Or demons or anything like that.

[00:46:05] CHRIS: Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

[00:46:05] CALLER: So it’s like, it’s just all kind of in the same realm, I guess? But it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s all Pagan.

[00:46:14] CHRIS: Uh huh. Mmhmm.

[00:46:15] CALLER: But, yeah. I just say, like I’m just Pagan and just practice witchcraft and that’s just what I do.

[00:46:24] CHRIS: Now, I’ve read up on it and it sounds to me like Satanism might get a bad rap. Sounds like Satanism as a religion isn’t even really about the traditional Christian concept of Satan. It’s more about shock and throwing it in people’s faces. And the Satanism actually seems to be a little bit more of like promoting individuality versus…It seems to me like there’s certain thoughts on Satanism where people would promote it as, this is a religion that aims to break anything that resembles like a cult like, flock mentality, where you go along with a herd and you constantly think for yourself and about yourself in a way that is selfish in a healthy way. But it also merges it with a lot of ceremonies that sometimes look at things like sex as a religious ceremony and things like that, and things that might be a little bit outside the norm to a traditional Christian type.

[00:47:15] CALLER: Yeah. And there are, and there are different like things in like being Pagan, there are like sex rituals. And like this morning. I don’t see myself as a kitchen witch at all, which is a type of witchcraft. And they like put spells in baked goods and they make cakes and all this stuff and that’s how they like, make their potions, I guess, and share it with the world. So today I made cookies for prosperity.

[00:47:46] CHRIS: [music transition] Let’s pause right there. Kitchen witch. I thought that was, isn’t that also like a line of products? Kitchen witch? I didn’t know that like an actual type of witch. Speaking of products, our advertisers. They got products and services. You might be interested in them. Check them out. Use the promo codes if you’re so inclined. Be right back and we’ll finish off the phone call.

[00:48:10] [AD BREAK]

[00:49:33] CHRIS: [music transition] Thanks again to all of our sponsors. Now let’s finish off the phone call.

[00:49:40] CALLER: I don’t see myself as a kitchen witch at all, which is a type of witchcraft. And they like put spells in baked goods and they make cakes and all this stuff and that’s how they like, make their potions, I guess, and share it with the world. So today I made cookies for prosperity. So I woke up at like 5:00 in the morning. I was like, yep, never gonna be a kitchen witch. This is ridiculous. Like this is, I’m good with just like being a green witch, like just, like planting things like growing herbs and like burning sage and doing all that, so there’s, stuff. But.

[00:50:20] CHRIS: So you identify as a green witch?

[00:50:23] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:50:24] CHRIS: A green witch. So you use your relationship with Earth and the things you can cultivate–

[00:50:28] CALLER: Earth, yeah.

[00:50:29] CHRIS: –From the Earth as part of how you stay focused in a religious sense as well.

[00:50:33] CALLER: Yeah. And then I go hiking and do a lot of grounding. So I’ll hike barefoot and just meditate and stuff outside.

[00:50:42] CHRIS: So this sounds pretty laid back. This is not, a lot of people whom–

[00:50:45] CALLER: So yeah.

[00:50:46] CHRIS: — When you’d say you’re a witch. Some people might have an idea that you’re getting together with a, a group of women and that there’s spells and, and chants and some sinister undertones.

[00:50:55] CALLER: There are covens and stuff.

[00:50:56] CHRIS: Oh okay.

[00:50:57] CALLER: I’m actually, I’m going, I’m celebrating with my mom tonight. We’re…I don’t think we’re actually going to a coven. I think we’re doing that tomorrow. But tonight we’re doing a yule log where we’re carving into the log and burning it and bringing. So like we’re saying goodbye to like, the moon and like, bringing back the sun because this is the longest night, or it’s the shortest day of the year. So it’s the longest night. So we’re like welcoming the sun back.

[00:51:26] CHRIS: So your mom–

[00:51:27] CALLER: –Is actually what–

[00:51:28] CHRIS: –Your mom is a Pagan as well.

[00:51:30] CALLER: Yes.

[00:51:31] CHRIS: Wow. So were you raised Pagan or is this something you’ve embraced?

[00:51:36] CALLER: No, this is something that like, I’ve dabbled in since I was a kid and I finally was like, open to my mom about it. And then, because my mom would take us to church and everything growing up. And when I was open to my mom about it about two years ago, she was like, oh, yeah, I take care Tarot classes and stuff. And like, I actually practice things like, oh, nice of you to tell me now, cause we could have done it together.

[00:51:59] CHRIS: Now how do you feel the average Beautiful/Anonymous listener is going to feel that we are…we are, just so you know, we’re releasing this episode on Tuesday. It’s it’s Friday the 21st. We’ll be releasing this on Tuesday the 25th. Christmas. And a lot of our listeners are going to take some time away from their families on Christmas. Step away. You know, they’ll have sweaters and stockings hung and they’ll be drinking eggnog to listen to an episode where you promote Paganism, and I at one point realize I said the words: Satanism gets a bad rap.

[00:52:30] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:52:31] CHRIS: CAnd most people be hearing this on Christmas. How do you think? What do you think the reaction will be?

[00:52:37] CALLER: Well, Christmas was actually started from a Pagan holiday. It’s from–

[00:52:42] CHRIS: Preach!

[00:52:43] CALLER: –Yule.

[00:52:44] CHRIS: Preach!

[00:52:45] CALLER: So it’s, yeah. And it’s, I mean, they’re, like if people actually research what Christmas is, and people say like Yuletide and all this stuff, and I’m like, dude, do you even know what that is? Like, that’s a whole Pagan thing. Like, research what you’re saying and don’t…like, be like, oh, Pagans are crazy. Like they’re all witches and stuff. It’s like, no, I don’t think me hiking barefoot hurts you in any way. I’m just like, meditating. And like, oh okay, I’m just gonna burn this candle. It’s not harming you or anything, so.

[00:53:17] CHRIS: But now my, because my understanding is that Christianity, part of why it’s spread was that it was pretty adaptable and–

[00:53:27] CALLER: Mmhmm.

[00:53:28] CHRIS: –A lot. My understanding is that, and this is a very rudimentary understanding, is that, you know, Christian missionaries, they’d get to some place that hadn’t seen Christianity for…let’s say they got to Ireland, where I think things were known to be, you know, very tribal and Pagan and Celt–in that Celtic way. And then they get there and they’re like, ahh this Christianity stuff. We see the benefits, we see what you guys are saying. But we got this thing called Samhain where we worship the dead and we don’t want to stop doing that. It’s fun. We’ve been doing it since we were kids, man. And then they, Christians would just go, well, you know what? Why don’t we just keep that and will merge it with All Hallows Eve and you take all the–

[00:54:06] CALLER: Mmhmm.

[00:54:07] CHRIS: –-All the dark stuff from that. And then we could keep doing that. But we just say that it’s a mutually beneficial thing and we co-opt it into our thing. That happened a lot.

[00:54:16] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:54:17] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:54:18] CALLER: And it’s funny because like, when the Christians would go to other countries and have like, their churches built, a lot of pagans built the churches and they would carve like, old Pagan symbols and stuff in it. In the churches. So like a lot of symbols that the Christians have were taken from the Pagans. And it was all adapted. All religions like, all reli–if you read into all of them, they all pretty much the same, they have like the same premise. Essentially, you just have different stories.

[00:54:57] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:54:58] CALLER: So. Yeah it’s like this crazy thing and the Christians pretty much invented the Devil. So a lot of like, old religion Pagans, they never believed in the Devil. They have like a lot of different gods and goddesses that they’ll worship for different things and deities, but they don’t, like they never had a Devil or any like, bad things. So, when the Christians came, they made the Devil, so they’re like all the Pagans, like the witches they believe in Satan and then the Devil and like, he’s bad. So you should come to Chris, like Christianity. So that’s how like, they got a lot of Christians then. But it’s like, people are going to believe what they’re gonna believe. We’re all human and we don’t even know what is true. It could just be one person, one day, that was just like, I’m bored and yeah, I’m just gonna write this story. And then somebody else found it was like, oh my gosh. Like, I found this book that have all the stuff written in it. And that could have been started like that could be the Pagan tradition. And then that was like the Pagan religion. That’s what started all the other traditions. It’s like. How do we know we’re just not here to procreate and do whatever. And then leave this Earth and, we don’t know what’s beyond. We’re just like, whatever.

[00:56:17] CHRIS: So you’re–

[00:56:18] CALLER: So it’s just practice what you want to and don’t hate on people for practicing what they want to. As long as everybody gets along, I don’t see an issue.

[00:56:28] CHRIS: So you’re a, so I’m on the phone currently with a…you identify as a Queer Pagan feminist tile maker.

[00:56:36] CALLER: Yeah. [laughs]

[00:56:38] CHRIS: Wow. Alright. Alright. I feel like if we kept talking, we’d keep just being able to add other–

[00:56:45] CALLER: So much.

[00:56:46] CHRIS: –Descriptive–

[00:56:47] CALLER: Yeah. There’s–

[00:56:47] CHRIS: Yeah. What are, what are some of the other bullet points?

[00:56:50] CALLER: Oh gosh. Well now that I said there’s so much, I can’t even think of anything. Hmm. I don’t know. Oh, when, oh, yeah. I don’t know. I got nothing right now.

[00:57:05] CHRIS: That’s fair. We’ll figure it out toge–

[00:57:06] CALLER: Yeah I was like, there’s so much. Oh my gosh. I have the cutest dog.

[00:57:10] CHRIS: A dog owner.

[00:57:11] CALLER: I know you and dogs [phone reception breaks up]

[00:57:13] CHRIS: I’ve gone fine. I’m fine with dogs.

[00:57:14] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:57:16] CHRIS: Everybody listen. I’m not a dog ha– There’s gotta be a middle ground between never really having a desire to own a dog, and maybe some slight irritation at the behavior dogs get away with, and being a dog hater.

[00:57:32] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:57:33] CHRIS: Does your next door neighbor know you’re a Pagan? Does your next door neighbor know that you are a witch?

[00:57:38] CALLER: No.

[00:57:39] CHRIS: How do you think he would like that?

[00:57:42] CALLER: I don’t think he would care.

[00:57:43] CHRIS: Really?

[00:57:44] CALLER: Yeah. He’s so open minded, but he’s. He’s just like, I’m going to believe what I believe. You can believe what you believe. And as long as we can sit and listen to good music together, I’m cool.

[00:57:56] CHRIS: That sounds good. Is there any. is there any sort of Pagan flag that you might be able to ask him to hang?

[00:58:03] CALLER: No, not, not that I know of.

[00:58:06] CHRIS: Jared just did a Google image search on the phrase ‘pagan flag’ and the first thing that comes up is a black pentagram inside a rainbow circle.

[00:58:16] CALLER: [laughs]

[00:58:17] CHRIS: Do you think he would continue to hang–

[00:58:18] CALLER: –Yeah that’s–

[00:58:18] CHRIS: –Your flag if you had–

[00:58:19] CALLER: –Queer Pagans Unite.

[00:58:20] CHRIS: If there was a pentagram on the flag, do you think that might? Where is this? Where is your redneck neighbor’s limits? It’d hit a point where he’s like, I don’t know about this. Yeah, yeah hang it up.

[00:58:31] CALLER: I should try. I should just hang up a different flag every month and see what.

[00:58:35] CHRIS: [laughs]

[00:58:35] CALLER: We have neighbors across the street that are really, I don’t know what denomination of Christianity they are? But they have like signs in their front yard that they change every month that are different Bible verses. But it’s like talking about like, going to hell and like, doing all like, they’re scary signs!

[00:58:55] CHRIS: Mmhmm.

[00:58:35] CALLER: And I’m like, okay. Like, they won’t even say hi to me. And they’re, I don’t know. They’re, they’re something.

[00:59:03] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:59:03] CALLER: But I don’t think they would like it that much.

[00:59:06] CHRIS: It’s funny, I’ve ah. And like you said before. As long as people can get along, believe what they believe.

[00:59:14] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:59:14] CHRIS: That’s great. And I’ve met, I’ve met some, I some. I feel like we might be treading on a line of rolling our eyes at religion. And I wanted to say I don’t. There’s people I know who are very religious and they’re amongst the best people I know. And then I think, I think in any culture, it’s the people who take things too far. I’m sure there’s Pagans who take things to an extreme where you’re like, guys, the…

[00:59:36] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:59:37] CHRIS: Can we cool it with the paganism a little bit. Just like,

[00:59:40] CALLER: Well there’s a lot of stuff they came out like, saying that a bunch of Pagans and covens are coming together to hex Trump and Brett Kavanaugh. And that was like, the articles like that were floating around Facebook and people were sharing them. And they’re like, yeah, do this. And I was like, why, no! That’s not the whole point of like Paganism and Witchcraft. Like, why are you hexing people? Stop it.

[01:00:04] CHRIS: [laughs]

[01:00:05] CALLER: And don’t come out and say that. You’re putting a bad name for these, this religion. Like, [sigh].

[01:00:10] CHRIS: Sometimes that’s another thing with the social media, right? It’s like you forget, like you’re in a bubble with the people who agree with you, who understand what you’re saying. But it’s like. You might also, you know, there’s people keeping an eye on this who are looking for the thing that’s going to serve as a counterpoint. Who might want to say. The Pagan feminists are trying to put actual witchcraft curses on us, and maybe that could be easily manipulated or misconstrued if we aren’t a little crafty about how we present that.

[01:00:41] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:00:42] CHRIS: This world we live in. Now you’ve told us about 2018 in review. 2019. What are you excited for?

[01:00:50] CALLER: Ooh, I’m excited. OK, so in 2019, I’m planning on proposing to my partner.

[01:00:57] CHRIS: Whoa!

[01:00:58] CALLER: That’ll be fun, yeah.

[01:01:00] CHRIS: Now does your partner. Now, I’ll also say to you, you’re starting to sound like you’re physically farther away from the phone than you used to be. I don’t know if that’s something that you know the source of.

[01:01:09] CALLER: Nope.

[01:01:10] CHRIS: Aah, that’s fair.

[01:01:11] CALLER: Staying in the same spot.

[01:01:13] CHRIS: That’s fair. That’s fair. How are you–

[01:01:15] CALLER: –I was like–

[01:01:15] CHRIS: –Does your–

[01:01:16] CALLER: I’m at work now, so they’re moving pallets right outside my row?

[01:01:20] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:01:20] CALLER: So that might be.

[01:01:21] CHRIS: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

[01:01:22] CALLER: But I think they’re done.

[01:01:23] CHRIS: Now, does your partner listen to this show? We’ll have to make sure your partner doesn’t catch wind of the show?

[01:01:28] CALLER: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Even if she did, this is like, okay. So I was planning on proposing on New Year’s Eve. Because New Year’s Eve a couple of years ago was like, the first night we kissed. And then like, all this stuff, like, it was–and her parents got engaged on New Year’s Eve and she’s like, very follow in the footsteps. And like, they’re traditional and stuff. And I was planning like this huge, elaborate thing. And she just like, looked at me and she’s like, are you planning on proposing? And I was just like, what? Like, what are you, what are you talking about? And she was like, you can’t. And I was like, why? She’s like, I would say no until it’s this date. So she set a date. So she already knew. And I was like, well why? And then we had a we had a deeper conversation. And she wants me to meet one of her aunts. Like, actually physically meet them.

[01:02:19] CHRIS: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

[01:02:20] CALLER: Because she’s like, very close to her family. But she had an aunt who passed away who was her godmother. And since she passed away, she looked at her other aunt as her godmother. And I haven’t physically met her yet. And she’s like, it’s just very important to me that you meet her before we get married. Because I guess her cousin, so, her aunt’s son, got married this past summer and his wife, like, she didn’t get to meet his wife before they got married. And she was kind of upset because the families have been so close.

[01:02:55] CHRIS: Yeah.

[01:02:55] CALLER: So she was like, I, I just need you to meet everyone before we even.

[01:03:02] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:03:02] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:03:03] CHRIS: So even if she, if, if your partner does hear this, this is not, the cat’s not out of the bag.

[01:03:09] CALLER: No, no.

[01:03:10] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:03:10]  CALLER: Yeah. I already bought a ring and everything.

[01:03:12] CHRIS: Oooh.

[01:03:13] CALLER: She’s like. Yeah, she was like, how do you know my ring size? Because like, she was telling me, she was like, oh yeah. And I don’t like this kind. And I don’t want a diamond and I don’t want this. I just want a black band, and I, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, how do you know I already like, I didn’t already buy it? She was like, well did you? And I was like, I don’t know. Well how do you know my ring size, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? I’m like, I guess. But really, she was watching football and I was like, oh, my ring doesn’t really fit me anymore. And I just put it on every single one of her fingers and then just went down from there.

[01:03:47] CHRIS: Nice.

[01:03:48] CALLER: So I just kind of guessed.

[01:03:49] CHRIS: Smart. Smart!

[01:03:51] CALLER: She was distracted.

[01:03:53] CHRIS: Distracted by football.

[01:03:55] CALLER: Yeah, we were out there in Michigan.

[01:03:55] CHRIS: Was she sitting with your neighbor? Her and the neighbor sitting on the couch and the man cave watching football, firing off bows and arrows. You sneak the ring on there?

[01:04:04] CALLER: No. We were, we were up in Michigan. So I was like, oh I think my fingers are swelling. My, my ring’s not fitting as, like it used to.

[01:04:12] CHRIS: Now, when you get when you get married, do you plan on having a Pagan wedding? If so, will your partner’s Polish Catholic grandfather’s brain explode out of his head?

[01:04:22] CALLER: So we would be doing like a hand fasting ceremony. Which is technically like, and all Pagans do this differently. Like, I know some people who are going to be in the comments section be like, that’s not how it’s done. But the way I’ve always been taught is that the hand fasting ceremony is technically your engagement period. So from that moment, you’re then going to get married a year and a day after that. So you like after the hand fasting ceremony, that’s like your engagement. And then a year and a day after, you’ll be, you’ll have an actual wedding. So the hand fasting is my portion of it. And then I’m letting her do whatever she wants for the actual wedding.

[01:05:09] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:05:10] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:05:11] CHRIS: And hand, hand fasting. I’m not familiar. We only have five minutes.

[01:05:15] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, it’s a ceremony that is done by a priestess or a priest. And then, it could be like Wiccan or Pagan community. And it’s just like a ceremony just saying that you’re going to be with this person. And hey take a red cord and wrap it around your hands and just bond you together, really. And it’s just like a ceremony saying that now you’re together until you don’t want to be anymore.

[01:05:46] CHRIS: Oh.

[01:05:46] CALLER: So it’s not like legally binding. It’s just like, oh you’re together until you don’t want to be. And then you do a similar ceremony, like if you decide that you don’t want to be that person anymore. You do a similar ceremony to be unbound.

[01:05:59] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:06:00] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:06:00] CHRIS: Nice and simple there. And how did you decide to be the one to propose?

[01:06:06] CALLER: Oh, that’s another thing. She also. I think that’s why she got upset. She was like, are you going to propose? Because she wants to do it

[01:06:12] CHRIS: Uh huh.

[01:06:13] CALLER: And she wasn’t planned yet. Yeah. So I was like, well I always wanted to do it. And you always talk about getting married, but you never mentioned anything about like, actually proposing. So I was just gonna do it. I feel like if you look at us, I am definitely the more feminine person in the relationship, and she is the more masculine. But personality wise, I am definitely more masculine and she is more feminine.

[01:06:42] CHRIS: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

[01:06:43] CALLER: Yeah. So I was just like, I don’t know, I just felt like I was the one that would propose. But we decided that we would probably just both propose at different times.

[01:06:53] CHRIS: Okay, okay.

[01:06:54] CALLER: So. We both have that moment.

[01:06:57] CHRIS: In your mid-twenties, relatively young by modern standards. But you’re sure, you’re ready–

[01:07:00] CALLER: Mmhmm.

[01:07:01] CHRIS: –To settle down one partner for life. Good to go.

[01:07:03] CALLER: Yep.

[01:07:04] CHRIS: Nice.

[01:07:05] CALLER: Yep.

[01:07:07] CHRIS: Nice.

[01:07:08] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:07:10] CHRIS: Get that, get that. So a monogamist, Queer, Pagan feminist tilemaker.

[01:07:16] CALLER: [laughs] Yeah.

[01:07:20] CHRIS: There’s a chance there you would have said, oh, no, we’re living the poly lifestyle. I would have been able to say poly. And just add–

[01:07:25] CALLER: [laughs]

[01:07:25] CHRIS: –A whole, whole list of things here. Okay, okay.

[01:07:29] CALLER: That has come up in conversation before, but I think it’s just a joking thing.

[01:07:33] CHRIS: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

[01:07:35] CALLER: To my knowledge at the moment, I think it’s just–

[01:07:36] CHRIS: Uh huh.

[01:07:37] CALLER: –Joking.

[01:07:37] CHRIS: Okay.

[01:07:38] CALLER: We would always joke about like, oh like, if you could have a threesome with anybody, who would it be? And just like, random people on television shows or whatever.

[01:07:47] CHRIS: So I potentially. So I’m talking to a potentially poly. Definitely Queer. Absolutely Pagan. Unapologetically feminist, tile maker. That’s who I’m talking to.

[01:07:58] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:00] CHRIS: Mmhmm. Love it. Love it! Love it. I wonder. I wonder if my, you gotta, like, let’s say I’m remodeling my kitchen, which I’ll never do again because it was a nightmare and I did it.

[01:08:17] CALLER: Oh, my gosh, I’m truly remodeling the whole house. As like, for the while my partners in Michigan for Christmas stuff. It’s terrible. Anyway, continue.

[01:08:26] CHRIS: Let’s say I’m going to do a backsplash. What fe–

[01:08:29] CALLER: Yes.

[01:08:30] CHRIS: Knowing my personality through the show to the degree that you do.

[01:08:33] CALLER: Mmhmm.

[01:08:34] CHRIS: What feminist iconography do you think would be appropriate for me with a kitchen backsplash?

[01:08:40] CALLER: Ooh.

[01:08:42] CHRIS: Talking Ruth Bader Ginsburg about my backsplash?

[01:08:45] CALLER: Oh, that would be dope. In like, different colors. Because I, I feel like you need something that pops.

[01:08:52] CHRIS: Maybe d–

[01:08:52] CALLER: Like, kind of like Andy Warholesque?

[01:08:54] CHRIS: Mmm.

[01:08:55] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:08:56] CHRIS: Like a pixelated–

[01:08:57] CALLER: Like on some tile–

[01:08:57] CHRIS: –Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

[01:08:58] CALLER: Yeah.

[01:08:59] CHRIS: Maybe different representations of the neck, of the jewelry she wears when it’s time to write a dissent. The dissent collar?

[01:09:06] CALLER: Yeah?

[01:09:07] CHRIS: Uh huh, uh huh.

[01:09:08] CALLER: That’d be cool.

[01:09:10] CHRIS: Uh huh, uh huh.

[01:09:12] CALLER: [laughs]

[01:09:14] CHRIS: I love it. We’ve got one minute left.

[01:09:19] CALLER: Oh, man. What’s your New Year’s resolution this year?

[01:09:23] CHRIS: Mine’s pretty cheesy, but it’s from the heart.

[01:09:26] CALLER: Alright.

[01:09:27] CHRIS: Be, be a good dad.

[01:09:30] CALLER: Aww! Congratulations.

[01:09:34] CHRIS: Thanks. I need everybody to keep sending good thoughts my way that everybody, that it goes well and everybody’s healthy. But I tell you what. People keep asking me, you’ve always been so open about your anxiety. You must be so nervous. You must be so scared. And I keep telling them the honest answer is all I am is so fucking excited. Sorry Sally.

[01:09:59] CALLER: Aww.

[01:10:00] CHRIS: Can’t wait–

[01:10:01] CALLER: Yay!

[01:10:01] CHRIS: –To meet this little guy. Can’t wait.

[01:10:04] CALLER: I’m so excited!

[01:10:06] CHRIS: Yeah. Seems fun. Seems like it could be a really good adventure.

[01:10:12] CALLER: Aww. I’m happy for you.

[01:10:15] CHRIS: Thanks. I’m happy for you, I hope this proposal goes off without a hitch. I hope the hand fasting is everything you want it to be. I hope you grow all the herbs that you need for the wedding to go smoothly.

[01:10:26] CALLER: [laughs] Thank you, thank you.

[01:10:29] CHRIS: I guess I want to just say to everybody out there listening as we wrap up, I hope everybody has a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah. Whatever holiday you celebrate and remember kids, Satanism gets a bad rap.

[01:10:44] CALLER: [laughs]

[01:10:45] [BELL RINGS]

[01:10:48] CHRIS: [music transition] Caller, thanks again for calling. Great to talk to you. What a fun way to end the year. Fun conversation. Thank you so much. Thanks to everybody for listening. I mean it so sincerely. It’s been a great, great year talking with you guys. A lot of ups and downs in this year for me. And Beautiful/Anonymous was the one constant that just remained endlessly joyful. So thank you for that. Thank you to Jared O’Connell, for putting this show on your back. For traveling all over the goddamn world to make this thing happen. What a great, great thing to spend the year putting out this bad boy with you all. Carry your underwear back from any country on the globe, Karen. Thank you to Harry Nelson for being one of the brains who helps make this thing get out there and move. And Justin Lindvall, you’re a great friend. It’s a great thing to work with you. I’m lucky to have you in my life. Shellshag, you’re wonderful. Thank you for the music. You want to know about me when I’m doing shows? Chrisgeth.com. Buy a ticket, come out, say hi. If you want to help Beautiful/Anonymous, here’s one way you can do it. You go to Apple podcasts, you rate, review, subscribe. It really helps when you do. Thanks so much for listening. And we’ll see you next year on Beautiful/Anonymous.

[01:11:58] THEME MUSIC: Catch me. Face to face.