EP. 234 — Sasheer Takes Her Annual Pole Class

SASHEER: Okay. I’m recording.

NICOLE: I’m recording. I never stopped.

SASHEER: Oh, look at you.

NICOLE: It’s gonna be one big file. Can you believe it?

SASHEER: I’m giving little doses to Jordan. Chapters.

NICOLE: Hi, Sasheer.

SASHEER: Hi, Nicole.

NICOLE: How are you?

SASHEER: I’m good. I watched Rent last night, and I texted you while I was watching. And… Dramatic. Very dramatic.

NICOLE: Very dramatic, but also very good and of its time.

SASHEER: Also, like, not not of this time. I was like, “This holds up extremely well.” I mean, obviously the stuff is dated to the AIDS Epidemic in the ’80s. But–I don’t know–it just didn’t feel old for some reason.

NICOLE: No because in 2023, we’re “How are we gonna pay this year’s rent?” And people are cold. They gotta light candles.

SASHEER: Sometimes the power goes out and you need to light a candle.

NICOLE: Jesse L. Martin does some of his finest work in Rent. I love Jesse L. Martin.

SASHEER: He did a great job.

NICOLE: I’ll Cover You (Reprise) is so good.

SASHEER: Yeah. Very good.

NICOLE: It’s so good.

SASHEER: The lyrics are so sweet. It’s like, “I’ll cover you with a thousand little kisses” or something. And I’m like, “Aww.” That’s so sweet.

NICOLE: Yeah. I would love for someone to cover me with a thousand sweet kisses. We went to pole the other day, and I was sore for so many days after.

SASHEER: Oh, same. I feel like I just stopped being sore today.

NICOLE: Same. I was like, “Oh, my God. My arms, my back, my legs, my crack. All of it.” Oh, Lord Jesus. But you did good.

SASHEER: Thank you. I will see you in one year for my yearly pole class, where I do it and it hurts and I don’t do it for a whole year.

NICOLE: It was funny. Veronica was like, “I mean, usually at this point you’d be like, ‘Ow, I’m done.’ But you kept going!” And I was like, “That’s funny. That is Sasheer.”

SASHEER: The last time I did it you were like, “It goes for two hours.” An hour and a half, I was like, “We’re close to being done, right?” And you’re like, “No! 30 more minutes!” And I was like, “Oh, my God. What’s wrong with you?”

NICOLE: It’s a marathon, baby.

SASHEER: And then I couldn’t climb, I think, because I was getting tired. But also, the resistance that my feet have to the pole has gone away. So just putting the top of my foot on the pole was hurting, and I was like, “Ow. I don’t want to do this. That’s hard.” And I still have missing skin on top of my foot.

NICOLE: Oh no! A little pole burn. A little pole kiss–one of those thousand sweet kisses.

SASHEER: One of them made it to my foot.

NICOLE: Oh, Lord. I’m trying to do an outside leg hang where you just hang upside down from your leg. And it’s so hard.

SASHEER: Very hard.

NICOLE: But you did it.

SASHEER: But you were doing some really cool stuff upside down.

NICOLE: Thanks. It’s so tough.

SASHEER: And I did do it. And I don’t like it. And I don’t think I want to ever do it again. I’m sure there are other things I could do upside down that would feel good and probably look good, too.

NICOLE: Yeah, there’s a lot of things you could do upside-down and not do that.

SASHEER: Yeah, I don’t need to do that.

NICOLE: Where are you? You’re in the dark, Sasheer. You look like you’re in a cave.

SASHEER: I’m in the same room. Okay, here’s the thing. There was an overhead light that was directly over me, and I was getting so hot from the bulb just being exposed. So, then I moved a light from a different room to right next to me and then turned all the other lights off in the space. But it does look like I’m making a ransom video, or something–like I captured someone and I’m recording my demands.

NICOLE: Also, the wildest thing happened on my flight. So, the gate agent came on, walked up to the lady in the seat next to me, and was like, “I need to see your ID. You’re not actually scanned in properly.” And I was like, “What?” And then she, like, had the whole manifesto and then looked at it and compared her ID to it. She was like, “Okay, you’re fine.” And I was like, “What?” I’ve never seen that before.

SASHEER: Yeah. Why did they need the ID?

NICOLE: And not just her boarding pass? I don’t know.

SASHEER: You should’ve asked. You should’ve been like, “What’s going on?”

NICOLE: “Are you a secret agent? Are you a criminal? What’s going on?”

SASHEER: “Are you on the run right now? What’s happening?”

NICOLE: I would hate to be on the run. Do you know what I mean?

SASHEER: Very anxiety inducing.

NICOLE: Just, like, moving from place to place, being like, “Am I going to get caught? Are they going to get me?”

SASHEER: Yeah. So many wigs.

NICOLE: I do love a wig, though.

SASHEER: That’s true. Maybe you’d thrive.

NICOLE: Maybe I would. If someone witnesses a murder or something, you’re definitely running, right?

SASHEER: Yes. Yeah. If you commit a murder… I don’t think you have to run if you saw a murder unless it was, like, the mob or something.

NICOLE: Well, that’s the whole premise of Sister Act.

SASHEER: This is true.

NICOLE: Deloris Van Cartier watches her boyfriend, Harvey Keitel, shoot a limo driver. And then his henchmen go to find her, but she runs away. And then that really nice man puts her in a convent.

SASHEER: That’s true. So, I think that’s exactly what would happen if you saw a murder.

NICOLE: You gotta go hang out with some nuns.

SASHEER: Nuns the word.

NICOLE: Nun is the word. I don’t think I could be a nun.

SASHEER: No? Why?

NICOLE: They wake up really early.

SASHEER: And do what?

NICOLE: I think, like, pray and stuff? I think they wake up early, they pray… I don’t know what else is on a nun’s–

JORDAN: Wait a second. Out of all the things– I’m red because I’m laughing so hard. Out of all the things that you were concerned with about a nun, it’s waking up early and praying? It’s not that you’ll never have sex for the rest of your life.

NICOLE: 5:00 am is so early! “5:00 am. The silence of the early hours of the morning is broken when the bell sounds for rising. The nuns rise promptly, wash in a simple basin in their cells.” I live in a cell for God? I don’t gotta shower? Them nuns be stinking! What? No, I can’t be stinky and waking up at 5:00 a.m. It’s not for the Lord.

SASHEER: But you’re fine with the no sex?

NICOLE: I think I can deal. Can I masturbate? No one’s going to know.

SASHEER: That’s true. It’s between you and God.

NICOLE: Maybe there’ll be a hot, little nun there and we have a secret, little fuck sesh for the Lord.

SASHEER: But I feel like the community is so small, someone’s going to know.

NICOLE: Not if she keeps her mouth shut. I won’t tell nobody. Only the Lord. I would tell all the nuns. I’d be like, “Guess who I’m fucking. That sister over here.”

SASHEER: “That sister over here? We both got to get out of here.”

NICOLE: Yeah, I do think my main problem is the 5:00 a.m. wake up call. That’s nuts. That’s sick as hell.

SASHEER: I don’t think I could be a nun also for the earliness. And then I don’t know. It seems boring.

NICOLE: It does seem boring. I live in a cell, I wake up, I wash in a basin, and I pray all day? Also, what’s under the dress? Anything? Can I wear leggings?

SASHEER: Maybe they’re commando. They’re just free balling it.

NICOLE: Their pussies are just out for the Lord under those dresses? Wow.

SASHEER: Probably not.

NICOLE: I would like to think so.

SASHEER: Although maybe they are having fun all the time. The nuns in the Sister Act seemed like they were having so much fun.

NICOLE: They do seem like they’re having a nice time. But honestly, I think they’re having an okay time until Sister Mary Clarence appears. And then I think the fun skyrockets.

SASHEER: That’s true.

NICOLE: What’s a nun’s day to day?

SASHEER: Do they teach class?

NICOLE: Not all of them. Only if you work in a school.

SASHEER: Okay. Do they, like, sew stuff? Oh, they do. “Cooking, cleaning, sewing, or attending to the community mail.”

NICOLE: The mail? I’m a post office worker? “We often work in common. We maintain our monastic silence except for necessary work.” I gotta be quiet?

SASHEER: Ooooh.

NICOLE: I gotta wake up early and shut up? Never.

SASHEER: There go your podcasts.

NICOLE: Yep. How am I going to make money?

SASHEER: Well, you don’t need money. You get to stay in the monastery.

NICOLE: Who pays for that?

SASHEER: The people?

NICOLE: Which ones?

SASHEER: The one’s donating to the Lord. I don’t know.

NICOLE: And then monks are different. Those aren’t nuns, right? Monks are nuns?

SASHEER: No, those are different. And I don’t know how.

NICOLE: That’s Buddhist, right? Buddhist monks?

SASHEER: Yeah. Okay. “The life within the walls of a monastery may be supported by manufacturing and selling goods, often agricultural products, by donations or alms, by rental or investment incomes, by funds from other organizations within the religion, which in the past formed the traditional support of monasteries.” Okay.

NICOLE: Interesting.

SASHEER: “Monks and nuns performed many roles in the Middle Ages. They provided shelter and taught others to read and write prepared medicine, sewed clothes for others, and helped others in times of need.” “What’s the difference? The word ‘nun’ is typically used for female monastics, although the term ‘monachos’ is of Christian origin. In the English language, ‘monk’ tends to be used loosely, also for both male and female ascetics from other religious or philosophical backgrounds.” Okay.

NICOLE: Interesting. Who would have thought we would have learned about monks and nuns today? I do want to know what’s under those robes, though.

SASHEER: Maybe fishnets. I wore a fishnet bodysuit under my graduation robe for college.

NICOLE: What? Why were you freaky?

SASHEER: It was a joke. It was funny. My friend bought these fishnet stockings or, like, a body suit. It went from your toe to your neck. And we thought it’d be funny to wear them under our graduation gowns. And then we did.

NICOLE: And did anyone see them?

SASHEER: You could see the legs.

NICOLE: Was everyone like, “So, you graduated to being a freak?”

SASHEER: No one. No one did say that.

NICOLE: I wish I went to your school. I would have said that to you.

SASHEER: “What did you major in? Freakonomics?”

NICOLE: What did I wear under mine? I think I just wore a skirt and a shirt and some huge platform heels. I loved a platform in high school. I would wear the biggest heels to school and, like, a little purse and never had any books with me. I didn’t go to school to learn. I was there to make friends.

SASHEER: It sounds like you went to Euphoria High. Those girls always have the tiniest purse and notebooks.

NICOLE: I mean, that’s how I was living. I put all my books in my locker, had my little purse, and would never go to my locker room between classes. And I would never bring my books home. I didn’t do anything in school.

SASHEER: That’s very funny. What were your grades like?

NICOLE: That sounded pretty judgy. They were not good. I got, like, B’s and C’s.

SASHEER: I mean, that’s not terrible for someone who’s never bringing their books home.

NICOLE: Yeah, I don’t think I failed anything. I don’t think. Oh, we’re back to nuns? Bras and panties? A petticoat?

SASHEER: This is what they wore underneath their robes.

NICOLE: I would have to wear leggings, so my thighs didn’t rub together because I got big old thighs. Wait, Sasheer, in school, did you, like, bring books home and stuff? Did you, like, have a backpack? Did you have, like, a rolling backpack?

SASHEER: Wow. That sounded very judgmental. No, I did not have a rolling backpack. I can see why you’d think that. I did not. I just had a regular JanSport backpack.

NICOLE: Oh, okay. And you towed your books back and forth?

SASHEER: Oh, yeah.

NICOLE: Wild. And you, like, did homework and stuff?

SASHEER: Yeah, I always did my homework.

NICOLE: I used to get really stoned and do my chemistry homework. And I would just, like, write the same equation over and over and over again till it looked like I did enough work.

SASHEER: Did you ever say anything?

NICOLE: No. She was one of those teachers where she would just, like, come around and you’d flip the pages and she’d be like, “You did it.”

SASHEER: Oh. But this is during class?

NICOLE: No, I would do that at home. So, we would get homework sent home with us. I would do the homework by just writing the same equation or whatever a bunch of times. And then she would walk around. We didn’t, like, hand it in. She would go around and look through our pages and just, like, check it off to be like, “You did it.”

SASHEER: That doesn’t sound like a good grading system.

NICOLE: No, but I got by.

SASHEER: I mean, thank goodness. But I think I’d be upset because I’d be like, “I actually did my homework, and you’re just, like, checking it off if it’s filled out?”

NICOLE: Well, I guess you’re a fucking sucker. I figured out a way to get the grade and not do anything. Although I was put in basic math, I think, my sophomore year because I was just like, “I don’t want to do algebra.” Like, I just didn’t want to do it. I was like, “This is not for me.” And I was in basic math with a bunch of other bad kids. Oh, my God. School was a scam. Nobody has asked me anything from school. Nobody’s like, “Nicole, what do you know about chemistry?” Nothing. Nobody’s asking me.

SASHEER: Yeah. It is very strange that we had to take so much math and so much science. Like, I do want some science. I want to know how some stuff works. But not many of us are going to continue being people who need that kind of math or science.

NICOLE: No, not at all. Nobody has asked me about anything from Beowulf. Like, do you know what I’m saying? Wait, Jordan, is your tank top from Old Navy? Is it a sports bra that’s a tank top?

JORDAN: It’s just a regular tank top, but it is Old Navy.

NICOLE: Oh. I thought we had similar ones, but mine’s, like, a sports bra tank top.

JORDAN: Gotcha. I do have one of those also.

NICOLE: Really comfortable in it. Sorry, back to Beowulf. All the books we read, I was like, “They suck.” Catcher in the Rye? Get out of here. My freshman year of high school, we read interesting books. We read, like, The Shawshank Redemption. We read Stand by Me, which I think is called The Body or something. It’s, like, a Stephen King short story. We read, like, interesting things. And then we will watch the movie after and then talk about why we liked either the movie or the book more.

SASHEER: That’s cool. I like that.

NICOLE: I really liked that teacher. She was great.

SASHEER: That’s great.

NICOLE: I can’t remember her name for the life of me.

SASHEER: I don’t remember many teacher’s names. I remember Mrs. Craycraft. She was my eighth-grade English teacher? No. Maybe ninth grade. And I liked her because she also was a little no-nonsense. And I remember there was a vocabulary word that was, like… I think it was “juxtaposition” or something. And she asked me. She was like, “Do you know what this word means?” And I was like, “No.” And she’s like, “just think about it.”

NICOLE: And you liked this person?

SASHEER: I did because I was like, “You’re right. I’m not trying. I could just think a little bit, and then I’ll figure it out.”

NICOLE: “Just think about it.” I don’t remember switching classes, but I remember all of my elementary school teachers. Mrs. LaBerge hated me. Mrs. Rooney hated me. Mrs. Fortescue hated me. Mrs. Hudzinski absolutely hated me. Ms. Gizzi halfway through became Mrs. Rosado. She I don’t think liked me much either. Mrs. Mahood–I think she was so-so on me. And then I don’t remember sixth through 12th.

SASHEER: Oh, interesting. How did these teachers display hating you?

NICOLE: When I talked too much, Mrs. Fortescue would send me out of the classroom to find my mother, who also worked in the school. And I was not allowed to return until I found her. And then I would have to explain to my mom I was talking too much and I wasn’t listening. And then my mom would have to walk me back to class. And then my mom would go, “Are you going to listen now?” And I’d go, “Yeah, I’m going to listen.” And, you know, an hour later, I’d have to go find my mom again.

SASHEER: What did your mom do at the school again?

NICOLE: I don’t know. Well, I know she was a lunch lady at one point. She was a volunteer lunch lady. So, she would, like, be outside with us and, like, watch the kids with another mom. And then she did something in the office because she was there, like, all day.

SASHEER: Oh, nice!

NICOLE: She just couldn’t get enough of me. She said, “I want to be near you all the time, baby.” And I said, “Okay.”

SASHEER: Maybe you actually weren’t getting in trouble, and she was texting the other teachers, being like, “Can you just send her to me right now. Can you send my daughter to me?”

NICOLE: “I miss my baby.”

SASHEER: Yeah. “I miss her!”

NICOLE: And I don’t remember what Mrs. Hudzinski did, but every morning I had a stomach ache. I was like, “I can’t go to school. I have a tummy ache.” And it was because I just didn’t want to hang out with Mrs. Hudzinski and the other idiots in class.

SASHEER: Oh, damn.

NICOLE: And then I remember once I rolled around and grass, like, having a nice time. And I’m allergic to grass, and we didn’t know that at the time. And my eye puffed up real big. And I finally was like, “I can’t go to school because look at my eye!” My mom was like, “Fine, you get to stay home.” And then you couldn’t stop me from rolling around on the grass, trying to have it happen again.

SASHEER: Oh, my goodness.

NICOLE: School’s hard! You want me to sit there for 100 hours and, like, listen? Get real.

SASHEER: Yeah. I don’t like how it’s formatted.

NICOLE: I think school should be more like, “Play now, fucking read a little, take a nap, read a little…” Like, we should be napping up until high school. I think we should nap in high school.

SASHEER: That’d be so nice because you start so early, too.

NICOLE: Yeah. I can’t learn at 7:00 a.m., 8:00 a.m.

SASHEER: Get, like, a post-lunch nap, and then go to your next class after that–after 30 minutes.

NICOLE: Sasheer, should we open up our own school? Didn’t Kanye West open up a school?

SASHEER: I believe so. I don’t know where it is. Oh, yes, he did because he only serves them sushi or something.

NICOLE: That’s really funny.

SASHEER: People were upset. They’re like, “My kid needs more nutrients than this.”

NICOLE: “No. Just sushi.” Did I send you that video of North West just eating an onion?

SASHEER: No. I don’t think I saw it.

NICOLE: She’s eating a raw onion. And someone asks her, like, “Do you want to do what your mom does?” And she’s like, “What does my mom do?” and then bites into her onion. It’s wild.

SASHEER: Wait, I did watch the video. I don’t remember the onion, though.

NICOLE: She’s holding an onion in her hand, Sasheer. She’s eating a raw onion.

SASHEER: That’s really funny. “North West Eats Raw Onions Like Apples and the Internet Is in Shambles.”

NICOLE: That’s an onion, Sasheer. This little girl is eating an onion.

SASHEER: Yeah, just casually.

NICOLE: She didn’t even peel the onion. She’s eating them flakes, too.

SASHEER: I wonder how that developed. Like, was she given an onion, and she was like, “I gotta take a bite of this” Did someone say, “This will be good for you”?

NICOLE: Who knows? Wait. Go up. Maybe it’ll tell us how she got to eating onions. “As much as some parents struggle to get their kids to eat veggies, there’s been a public outcry over the way North West, the elder child of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, eats onions.” She asked Kim if she wanted a bite, and Kim declined. How funny? That little girl’s breath must be hot.

SASHEER: Oh, my God.

KIM KARDASHIAN: Courtney always says North is my lesson on this planet. It means that I’m supposed to learn even more patience. She teaches me patience. And she has taught me a lot about life. Northy, I’m going to a prison soon. Can you eat it? Like that?

NORTH WEST: You want some?

KIM KARDASHIAN: No, thanks. You’re just going to eat an onion like an apple. This is what she does, people. She eats veggies like apples.

INTERVIEWER: What do you think about the work your mom does?

NORTH WEST: What does she do?

SASHEER: Oh, my God.

NICOLE: I don’t think anyone’s ever been roasted harder by a child eating a raw onion, going, “What does she do?”

SASHEER: I think I’d be eviscerated, like, “This little weirdo is going to make fun of me?”

NICOLE: “What does she do?”

SASHEER: Wow. I mean, I think onions are good for you, so, like, good for North for figuring out how to, like, ingest a lot of onions in a small amount of time. But I feel like my taste buds would stop me at some point.

NICOLE: Your taste buds would be on fucking fire. Truly, your mouth would just be like, “This girl is on fire!” You wouldn’t be able to taste nothing else–just raw onions all day.

SASHEER: Also, I’d be tearing up. I’d be sobbing. If someone just cut onions near me, I would be crying. I can’t imagine eating one and having it in my face like that. North is tougher than all of us, honestly.

NICOLE: That’s what happens when you live a life where you’re pampered and very rich. You eat onions for the thrill.

SASHEER: “I need some kind of struggle. I need something to make me feel bad.”

NICOLE: Wait. Should we answer queries?

SASHEER: Yes, let’s do that.

NICOLE: What time are we at? Is it time for that?

JUDITH: Right now, we’re at 35:22. So we can do another quiz if you want and then answer questions or the questions.

SASHEER: Judith, you know we don’t have time for a quiz. We’re at 35? We got ten more minutes. It took us, like, 50 minutes to do a quiz on the last episode.

NICOLE: Sasheer, you are speaking the truth. And somehow the room you’re in is getting darker and darker. Like, soon you’re just going to be in complete black. It’s wild. You truly look like you’re in the lair Osama bin Laden must have been hiding. It is nuts.

SASHEER: It’s because the sun went down. So, the light that was coming from outside is gone.

NICOLE: I understand how life works. The sun went down. The sun is gone. Okay. “Hi, Sachair, Nicole, Kimmie, and Jordan. I need your help. I have a problem with my best friend and how we communicate. It started this year when I would message him to hang out and we would decide on a time. But as the day got closer and closer, he would just simply forget we made plans. I started checking in on him the day before and usually the day of our plans, too. And it still happens where he would double book himself. I understand life gets busy, but it’s gotten worse from here. Nowadays I’m lucky to get a reply from him. I will send him a message asking to hang out, and he will just open the message or leave me on read. I have pretty bad anxiety, so my overthinking starts to blow things out of proportion. I confronted him about it and asked if things were okay between us, which he assured me things were fine and he values my friendship, but he’ll continue to do the same thing each time I ask to hang out. It’s a bit exhausting. Maybe we’re drifting, but I don’t see why. We always get along great when we’re together and often try to plan our next hang before we leave. I’m just so confused why he continues the same behavior, even though I have checked in with him about my concerns more than once now. A friend of his says the less he replies to you means the more comfortable he is around you. I don’t know if I believe that, but I also think maybe he might have undiagnosed ADHD or something that makes him forget to reply.”

SASHEER: “I’m sorry for the longer message, but I truly envy your friendship and communication with each other. Love the pod. And stay safe.” I love how you read that whole thing but left the last sentence for me.

NICOLE: Well, I got tired of reading. And when I stopped, I was like, “Oh, there’s only this little bit left.” Sorry. That is tough because you’ve checked in. And maybe it’s one of those things where it’s like, “Maybe you feel comfortable not always answering me, but I don’t feel super comfortable when we make plans and you don’t keep them.” I don’t know. What’s a nice way to say that? “When we meet, I want to hang out with you. So, when we make plans, I’d like to keep them.”

SASHEER: Maybe you can ask, like, “Is there something we can do to help you remember our scheduled hangs?” You recently just switched to your Google Calendar on your phone. And I feel like maybe if this person uses that–which maybe they don’t–you’d be like, “Let’s put it in your calendar right now as I’m standing right in front of you, so I know that you have it in your calendar. I can invite you on Google Cal, and you can accept it. And it’ll remind you on your phone that that’s what’s happening.” But maybe you can ask and come at it like, “I see you’re having trouble with this. Is there something we can do? Is it helpful for me to call you the day before?” even though I think… Didn’t they say they check in?

NICOLE: They say they check in the day before or day of, but it still happens. Maybe it’s really just being like, “Hey, I really value this friendship, I really love you, and I really want to hang out with you, so it makes me sad when we don’t get to hang out. So, is there anything I can do to be more helpful to help you?”

SASHEER: Yeah! And I think that’s worth saying. And then, I guess, you have to see if any change actually happens. And then if it doesn’t, then… I don’t know. You’ve already had the conversation. So, I guess you could stress, “It makes me feel like I’m not a priority when you forget our meetups.” And it sounds like this person genuinely does want to hang out. They’re just having trouble remembering. Do we think they could be sad?

NICOLE: Yeah, maybe you can ask if everything’s okay with them. Like, “Do you want to talk? Is something happening?”

SASHEER: Yeah, because something’s up. This feels like a lot more than just, like, a forgetful person, especially if you brought it up a couple times.

NICOLE: Yeah. And I want to know what they are saying. Are they just like, “Yeah! I do want to hang out with you.” Like, is there something that’s being left out, like, “I do wanna hang out with you, I just get confused.” I guess I just need to know a little bit more information because I do feel like our listener has done all the things that I would say to have them do.

SASHEER: I also wonder, like, how specific these hang out times are. Like, I’ve made this mistake before where someone’s like, “Do you want to hang out Saturday?” and I’m like, “Yeah!” because in theory, I do. But if we don’t put a time on it, I might fill it up, and I might forget. And then Saturday comes around, and they’re like, “Are you down to hang?” And I’m like, “Oh, whoops. I accidentally planned a lunch and a dinner and… Of course, I did want to hang out Saturday, but we didn’t say when, so I forgot.” So maybe if it’s like, “Do you want to hang out 3:00 p.m. on Saturday and we’re going to meet at this restaurant?” then maybe for that person it’s more cemented, like, “Oh, yes. We are going to do that,” because maybe that person has the same thing that I do sometimes where I’ll be like, “Oh yeah! I would love to do that because I would.” But then if we don’t actually cement it or, like, make it specific, I might forget.

NICOLE: I wonder if you can set an alarm on your phone for a specific date. Oh, no. It just… No, it’s just the time. But I guess you could do it in your calendar. But if this person’s reminding them, is a calendar going to actually help with the reminder? But I think you’re onto something with, like, time, a location… I think that’s helpful for a lot of people.

SASHEER: Yeah. I mean, it’s possible this person’s already doing that–but if they’re not, maybe try that. And make it as specific as possible instead of, like, “We’ll hang sometime this weekend.” That’s hard to know when this weekend we will hang because lots of things can happen.

NICOLE: Yeah, you could join a circus.

SASHEER: Did your friend join the circus? Did you ask?

NICOLE: Did you ask? Are they part of Cirque du Soleil?

SASHEER: Because, of course, they’re busy. They’re training.

NICOLE: They’re bending. But yeah. 1) Ask what’s up with them–if they need, like, a friend to talk to about something going on. Maybe they’re sad. 2) I think nailing down a time and place might be really helpful. Judith? Jordan? Do you guys have anything?

JORDAN: I would just listen. I’m the type of person who’s so upfront with people. And if you’re constantly standing me up, I’m just going to call you out and be like, “What is the issue?” But as much as I want to be understanding of if someone is going through something, if this is something that constantly is happening, I’d be, like, right in, texting or calling–being like, “What’s the issue? I thought we were friends. I don’t know why this keeps happening.”

SASHEER: Jordan’s ready to fight.

NICOLE: Yeah, truly. “I thought we were friends. What the fuck’s going on?”

JORDAN: If you’re my friend, you wouldn’t do that. You would make the effort. And, like, I recently went through something where it was this really big, important event. And someone who I thought was going to be there, like, canceled last minute. And I was shocked. And I haven’t figured out, like, how to say something to them just because I’m that shocked. But yeah, if I really care about you and you’re my friend, I’m not going to stand you up. I’m going to make sure that I’m there. And so, I would be the one calling out, being like, “What’s the issue? What’s the problem?”

SASHEER: Yeah, that’s why I think it might be helpful to ask how they’re feeling because I think people have a hard time thinking of other people’s perception of something if they’re deep in depression or self-esteem stuff or… Who knows what? But, yeah, it sounds like maybe they’re not quite conscious of what’s happening around them.

JUDITH: I’m a bit on the fence because it seems like this person doesn’t mean to do it. It doesn’t seem like there’s an intention there, so I try and give some grace. But I also think if you’ve already talked to them and it continues to happen, try the calendar idea and setting it up on the spot like you guys did. But also, maybe start building a bigger community, like, with people who follow up and follow through for you if you need it. If it keeps going on and on, you might have to start building a distance with this friend if they’re not, you know, reciprocating what you need in terms of hanging out and communicating and stuff–not to throw them away. But I think you need to be able to hang out with your friends. That’s a requirement with friendship, depending on the type of friendship that you want to build with this person.

SASHEER: That makes sense.

NICOLE: Yeah. Solved.

SASHEER: Solved!

NICOLE: Also, give us an update if you speak to them.

CALLER #1: Hi, Nicole and Sasheer. Big fan. Y’all always know how to make me laugh and cheer me up on even my worst days. I have a question that’s friendship related, but it has to do with my sister. My sister is younger than me by about seven years. I love her a lot, and we’ve gotten a lot closer as we’ve gotten older. She is also not as mature as I am, obviously, because she’s younger than me. I understand that. But she never takes care of herself in any way, shape, or form, whereas I’ve been fairly self-sufficient since high school. She struggles with keeping friends, and she tends to hold on too tight to her friends that she has. My question is, I have been having a hard time with her recently. She’s been kind of dumping on me because she has lost a lot of her friends recently. But things are going really well in my life, and I’m having a hard time balancing keeping her negativity above my positivity. I don’t want to not have her talk to me or anything like that, but how do I spin it? How do I maybe set boundaries? I’ve never really had boundaries with her, and I just don’t know what to do. I’ve always been kind of her rock, and I want to continue that but also keep my mental health doing pretty well. I love you guys. Thank you.

SASHEER: Maybe when your sister is venting about something you can, like… You know, you don’t want to tell this person to not vent. But maybe you can start the conversation by being like, “Tell me something good that happened this week?” or “What are you excited about today?” or something like that. Kind of give her, like, positive prompts and see if she’ll bite. And then, you know, hopefully she’ll spend some time doing that. And then if venting comes up, it comes up. But hopefully it, like, doesn’t take over the whole conversation.

NICOLE: Maybe you can have, like, Venting Wednesdays where you, like, go to a bar, have some drinks, and you vent about the things you want to vent about. And then you go, “Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday–we don’t vent.” Is that wild? That’s too crazy.

SASHEER: I honestly love that. I think that’s great because then–yeah–you could be like… And you don’t even have to make it about her. I could like, “Hey, I’m trying to, like, be less negative in my speech because I feel like it permeates through my whole day or whatever. How about you and I spend every Wednesday night venting the shit out of whatever bothers us? And the rest of the week, it’s all positivity because I’m trying to, like, stay up or something for the rest of the week.” And yeah, hopefully she’ll bite. But that sounds exciting to me. A dedicated time to vent? Hell, yeah.

NICOLE: Yeah, I think that might be fun. Venting Wednesdays! VW! And then go somewhere dumb like Applebee’s? I don’t know.

SASHEER: Yeah, I like that.

NICOLE: Have dollar margaritas and vent and be like, “This food’s shitty!” Yeah. Go to a restaurant that– I’m not saying Applebee’s food is shitty. If they brought back the Apple Chimicheesecake, it would be better. But go to a restaurant that you both hate, and then order something you both don’t like. And then, like, make it a fun little event.

SASHEER: Yeah, or it’s, like, really nasty, but, like, you can talk trash while you’re eating trash.

NICOLE: Yeah. Talk any trash! The trash is coming out your mouth, and it’s going in your mouth!

SASHEER: Wait. I really like this. Can we do this?

NICOLE: Absotutolutely. I’m getting excited. And I was, like, in my head. I was like, “What nasty restaurant should we go to?”

SASHEER: Well, we probably shouldn’t name it here.

NICOLE: No. What if someone loves it?

SASHEER: Yeah.

NICOLE: Yeah. I think it would be very fun. Bring all your negativity. Wear your hateful outfit. Wear shoes that hurt. “My feet hurt! This doesn’t fit me!” Just be angry.

SASHEER: I like that. Yeah. Try that.

NICOLE: Yeah, I think that’ll be fun. I do think it’s really important to tell someone, “I’m trying to be more positive in my life,” because then it’s like, “I’m not saying you’re negative. I’m just being like, ‘I’m changing. I’m doing something for myself. And I would like you to get on board.’”

SASHEER: Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully they’ll pick it up.

NICOLE: Ooh. Judith said, “Maybe go to a break room,” which is where you go smash stuff.

SASHEER: Ooh, that’s really smart. Wow. This is great.

NICOLE: Yeah. Get some aggression. Yeah. VW. Go to a nasty, little restaurant wearing your ugliest shoes and ugliest outfit. Bring all your hate. And then after, go smash things.

SASHEER: I mean, honestly, it feels therapeutic.

NICOLE: I think so. I think that sounds really fun to just, like, bring a bunch of hate to a dinner.

SASHEER: And then you leave, and you’re like, “All right. Well… Gonna have a good Thursday now.”

NICOLE: “Left it there.” And then everyone at the restaurant is like, “There’s a bad vibe in the air.”

SASHEER: “It feels really bad in here.”

NICOLE: “It feels bad. I made no tips. Everything feels weird.”

SASHEER: Solved!

NICOLE: Solved!

CALLER #2: Hey, Nicole, Sasheer, Kimmie, Jordan and… Well, Clyde. Sorry I’m so nervous. I had to pull over and call while I have the nerves, so… I have a question for y’all. So, I left my husband about four months ago–in the process of divorcing, um. And, you know, no regrets, but it’s been rough. But I am ready to get out dating again. It’s been hard. I’m bisexual, so I’ve been looking in the female route for relationships. But lately I’ve been kind of craving a male companionship–short term, if you know what I mean. So, I recently realized that I am a demisexual, so I really can’t… I’m not comfortable with one-night stands, going out, Tinder dating, and stuff. So, I’ve been looking in my friend group. But also, I don’t want to ruin friendships that I have and that I’ve acquired and earned over the past eight years. So how would you recommend going further as far as interested in hooking up with male friends but not making it weird? I used to be able to do this. When I was younger–like 18–I hooked up with a lot of my male friends. And–I don’t know–I didn’t have a problem with it before. But now I’m in my 30s, and I feel like a totally different person but the same. I don’t know, it’s weird. So, yeah. What would y’all do? Options, opinions, and anything is appreciated. Thank you, guys. I love the podcast. You remind me so much of me and my best friend, Elizabeth. All right, ladies. Thank you. Bye.

NICOLE: Hooking up with friends is, like, a little tough for me. Personally, if I were to make a move on one of my friends that, like, I care deeply about, I wouldn’t do it just to hook up with them. I’d try to date them because I feel like… I don’t know. In my 30s, I don’t want to just hook up with my male friends because I don’t want to ruin it because the male friends who I have are good friends. And also, Tinder–you’re not obligated to hook up with people. You can go on a date with someone. You’re not obligated to have a one-night stand with anybody. And, you know, if someone pressures you into sex, absolutely you don’t want to be in that situation. But you can say on the date, “I actually take my time and, you know, go out on multiple dates with somebody.” It sounds to me that you’re looking to hook up with your male friends because you’re already friends with them and you know them. And it seems like it’s maybe a shortcut to hooking up with somebody. But in the long run, is the shortcut good? Maybe the ride to the destination is more fun than a shortcut. You know? Maybe you gotta see some trees.

SASHEER: “It’s not the destination. It’s the journey to get there. It’s the friends we make along the way.” Yeah, I think having sex with your friends is tough, especially if you want to stay friends. I think… And some people have done it in the world. I know people who have done it in the world. And it works for them. But these are also friends that are aware that you’re newly out of a marriage, and that might be strange for them.

NICOLE: It’s a little sticky. Nobody wants to feel like a rebound.

SASHEER: Yeah. Or that they’re just, like, servicing you because you have to think about their point of view, too, because they’re like, “Oh, I guess you’re just using me for sex? But you’re my friend. And that doesn’t feel good.” Yeah. Yeah. I think you can still find someone on an app and make it clear, like, “Just got out of a relationship. I’m not looking to date, but I do want to find someone that I enjoy being around. And it could be a friend that I hook up with.” Like, I think you can say, “I want friends with benefits basically.” And then hopefully you can develop a friendship and then eventually feel comfortable enough that you are willing to hook up with them.

NICOLE: Yeah. And I think with friends with benefits, if you write that on your dating app, I think you have to be like I have, “I’m looking for something with friends with benefits–heavy emphasis on ‘friends’ because I would like to get to know you before anybody is benefiting from anything” because there are some people out there who are like, “Friends with benefits? Hell, yeah. Get me in the puss.”

SASHEER: It’s Cartman for some reason.

NICOLE: “Get me in the puss.” But yeah, I think I would do dating apps. I wouldn’t dip into friendship because it has only been four months since your relationship, and it does feel like you’re looking for a rebound. But it feels like you just don’t want to be, like, willy-nilly hooking up with people. Yeah. I don’t think the shortcut is good in the long run.

SASHEER: I agree. I also don’t think this shortcut is good in the long run.

NICOLE: Yeah. Yeah. I think you’d better listen to Apple Maps and not this sleek shortcut you heard of.

SASHEER: You better take this full route.

NICOLE: You gotta make all the left hand turns. Yeah. That’s how I feel.

SASHEER: Okay! Solved.

NICOLE: “Okay!” This dark room. If you have a question, you can email me and Sasheer at nicoleandsasheer@gmail.com. Or you can call, leave a voicemail, text us, or leave a voice note at (424) 645-7003.

SASHEER: We also have merch at podswag.com/bestfriends.

NICOLE: And we got transcripts of our new episodes. Check them out on our show page at earwolf.com.

SASHEER: Lastly, don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That is the easiest way to support this show!

NICOLE: Well, Sasheer… See ya!

SASHEER: Talk about shortcuts. See ya!