EP. 116 — She Killed My Father

[00:01:16] CHRIS: Hello, everybody. Chris Gethard here welcoming you to another episode of Beautiful Anonymous. Very, very lucky that I get to do this. That I get to talk to you. I want to say, if you’ve ever been out there calling in and saying pick up the phone and I’ll probably be busy. You pick up the phone next time you do it, because what if you’re the one I get to talk to? I want to talk to everybody. Best gig in the world. I love you. Thanks for supporting spread word on tell people about it. I want to mention in case any you guys are in the Saint Lewis area, Saint Lewis, I’ll be in town Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 5 shows spread out at the Helium Comedy Club. Please do come on out. It’s so nice. I have been hitting the road against us together, show wrapped up, get to meet people. And guess what? My publishing company, I’m putting a new book in October called Lose Well, they told me they’re gonna give me copies of the book, advance copies to hand out at the shows. I’m going to give away one or two each show and maybe come out again. Who knows? But I’d love to meet any Beautiful Anonymous fans in Saint Lewis on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights. And my friend Carmen Christopher, a writer for the Chris Gethard Show, gonna put on a little show for you guys. Last week’s episode, The Chilean Air was very proud of the name of that episode. Positive response, I will say that would be the one thing that made me smile on the Facebook group is that across the board there are a lot of people go oh yeah, give me a million dollars. I’ll handle it just as well. That is why a lot of people got a kick out of it, I think. Well, it’s funny, you know. Also, some people posting saying they’re from other cultures, other countries where that’s not a big deal, where they really. Why is this a big deal? And it did make me realize we really do get hung up on that Facebook group. And a lot of talk, too, about how we don’t talk about that because of, you know, labor, you know, unions and labor and people trying to divide us. A very interesting one. Most of all, very positive. A lot of people got a kick out of the Chilean air. So Chilean air. Thanks for calling, sharing your story. Now, this episode you’re about to hear, you’re going to hear it. I mean, I was like a little tired coming into it. This one woke me right up because this is a story you don’t hear every day. You know, there’s a lot of movements lately. There’s a lot of things that 10 years ago we weren’t thinking about. Five years ago, we weren’t thinking about. Now we are. And this is one of them. I would say even more recently that a lot of us had not heard the syllable trans. We hadn’t heard that. We don’t know what that meant. And we’ve all been learning and through pop culture, through the news, through living real life, we’ve all been learning more and more about it. This is someone who learned about it through personal experience, through their family. It was very, very interesting here. What’s it like when it’s personal? What’s it like when you don’t know anybody else who’s dealt with what you’ve dealt with? What if it’s what if it’s not you? What if it’s someone in your family? What if it’s when your parents and you don’t know anyone else who has come out with this and you don’t know anyone else who’s dealing with someone in their family who has either? Very interesting story. I did my best to make sure that the caller was able to tell their story. It’s eye-opening. It’s intense at times. And it’s a pretty fascinating story that I felt lucky to hear. I hope you enjoy it.

[00:04:27] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful Anonymous. A beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host. [Beep]

[00:04:35] CALLER: Hello?

[00:04:37] CHRIS: Hi.

[00:04:38] CALLER: Hey, Chris.

[00:04:39 ] CHRIS: What’s up?

[00:04:40] CALLER: Wow, this is awesome. I was just telling my husband, I was like, this is the first time I ever even got on hold. And I was really excited.

[00:04:49] CHRIS: Well I’m happy to bring this exciting moment to you and your family.

[00:04:54] CALLER: Yes. Thank you. This is really great. I just started listening to Beautiful Anonymous about, let’s say a couple months ago because I had to get into podcasts because I have a son who is now eight months old.

[00:05:06] CHRIS: Oh nice.

[00:05:07] CALLER: And we tried to do no screens with him. And so I stopped being able to watch any TV.

[00:05:13] CHRIS: So you want your son to live a no screens life. And that just means you also have to live and no screens life

[00:04:54] CALLER: pretty much for doing the whole attachment parenting thing.  So it’s like he’s with me or my husband. 100 percent of the time at this point.

[00:05:26] CHRIS: Oh, wow. Wow. This little guy is here and is hearing me talk to people about sex work and stuff like that.

[00:05:40] CALLER: Yes, pretty much. Yeah. I’m just listening to one after the other. So I think, gosh, which one did I just finish up? So we’re it we’re not quite caught up. I just got past the 100th episode.

[00:05:56] CHRIS: Oh, nice.

[00:05:57] CALLER: So he’s heard all of them so far. Yeah. He’s going to know your voice really well when he actually learns to talk. But don’t worry, he doesn’t understand any words yet.

[00:06:05] CHRIS: Great. I won’t sit around feeling too guilty then.

[00:06:10] CALLER: Yeah. Well, how are you?

[00:06:12] CHRIS: How am I? OK. I like to be honest. As everybody knows, I’ll tell you, the honest answer is I’m really tired. I’m excited to be on the phone, but I am tired. I. For the context of when we’re taping this. Last week was the final episode of my TV show, at least for the season. So that was a very busy week. And then Saturday I went and did some shows in Bloomington, Indiana, and then Sunday I did some shows in Chicago. So this morning I was in an airport with flight delays and I landed and dropped my bags and then I got on the train and now I’m here. So I’m a little tired, but I’m excited because I tell you, I was out and doing the shows and I got to meet a whole bunch of people. Listen to Beautiful Anonymous. That’s always the coolest thing in the world. So I was really psyched to actually come and take a call today after meeting all these people face to face.

[00:06:59] CALLER: Yeah. That’s awesome. I can imagine that it would energize you a little bit. I hope I can help.

[00:07:04] CHRIS: Oh, yeah. And I’m hey, also, I’m going to bring the heat, so don’t you worry about that. But I’ve run around all over this great nation of ours is the thing. So how are you? How are you doing?

[00:07:17] CALLER: I’m good. I actually just drank some caffeinated tea. So I’m really hyped up because I can’t do like any caffeine pretty much ever. But when you don’t sleep because you have an 8-month-old, you kind of gotta do what you gotta do.

[00:07:28] CHRIS: I should’ve done that. Sometimes. Yeah, caffeine is great.

[00:07:32] CALLER: Yeah, green tea is right in the sweet spot.

[00:07:35] CHRIS: I like a breakfast tea with honey. And I sometimes have one. Oh, Harry just got up here. He just got up from the booth. Harry’s gonna help me.

[00:07:45] CALLER: That’s amazing.

[00:07:46] CHRIS: Yeah, but I don’t like, that’s not Harry’s job. I mean, I’m gonna apologize when he gets back, the Catholic guilt is kicking in. He shouldn’t have to do that. But I should have gotten myself some caffeine before we started.  He’ll get me some tea. We will just sip some tea. We’ll talk for an hour. It’ll be great.

[00:08:00] CALLER: That’s fantastic. Well, I wanted to tell you, too, it’s really funny. I’ve been, um. When I started listening to your show. I love therapy, of course. And I was. I haven’t been in therapy for a few months because with a young child, you know, you don’t feel good about leaving the house for any amount of time. So I kept telling myself I didn’t have time for it. And when I listened to your show and I said, oh, my gosh, I want to call in and talk to Chris, because I bet he’ll ask me some really cool questions about this stuff that I was trying to process. And that made me realize that I should really probably just call a therapist as well.

[00:08:31] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:08:32] CALLER: Yeah. So I just got off the phone with the therapist and I have my first session on Monday. So you’re kind of like the therapy fairy. I feel like when you’re doing the right thing. Then you get to talk to Chris Gethard.

[00:08:45] CHRIS: Can we just- can you just give me a moment? Might have to pause and just soak in that? I have now been dubbed the therapy fairy. I tell you, when I was growing up in northern New Jersey in the 80s and 90s, I would have dreaded that nickname. But now I wear that with a real badge of honor with nothing but pride.

[00:09:07] CALLER: No. You said you said therapy has saved my life like over and over again. I mean, I wouldn’t say actually literally saved it. I’m fortunately not on that depressive scale, I would say. But I’ve been going to therapy since I was eight because my parents took me to divorce counseling with them. So it has really, really shaped my life in a good way.

[00:09:31] CHRIS: Wow, so you’re an early adopter.

[00:09:33] CALLER: That’s right. That’s right. I’ve gotten really comfortable with therapy. Sadly, I think I’ve actually gotten too good at it. And if the therapist is not really good, I’m really good at talking my way out of not progressing.

[00:09:45] CHRIS: Thank you, Harry. I’m so sorry I asked you to do that Harry. Just so you know, I got an update for you, and everybody listening: the tea is here.  Harry got me three packs of sugar in the raw. I’m going to tell you how many are going to go in all three. Three sugars in it yes.

[00:10:05] CALLER: Not honey though, honey is really good for your voice.

[00:10:10] CHRIS: There’s no- Harry just threw his hands up. We got no honey here at Airwolf today. No honey present tonight. That’s OK. Sugar. Sugar never hurt anybody, right? Is that a thing?

[00:10:20] CALLER: Never! Never in a million years has sugar ever cause any, exactly.

[00:10:25] CHRIS: So what would you like to. Well, what are we talking about today?

[00:10:30] CALLER: Well, the things that I was thinking about processing have a pretty crazy story that a lot of my friends just tell me is a soap opera. So I thought that you would probably like it and hopefully, there are viewers out there that realize that they’re not alone. But I’m in a very small group of people whose parents came out as transgendered after we were adults.

[00:10:53] CHRIS: Wow.

[00:10:55] CALLER: Yeah. So I was 23 when my dad came out and said that she had been feeling like a woman since she was four. So it was a lot. And I think it’s really when my documents- this is about nine or 10 years ago at this point. So when she came out, it was it was not like a big thing in the public eye. Certainly it wasn’t very visible. It was still LGB. You know, not LGBT or definitely not LGBTQ.

[00:11:30] CHRIS: Yeah. And you know, when you say not a big thing, you know, if you mean it was not a big point of-

[00:11:36] CALLER: It wasn’t out in the public eye

[00:11:38] CHRIS: it wasn’t a cultural touchstone. It was actually a much bigger thing on a personal level, I would imagine.

[00:11:43] CALLER: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn’t even know what it was. You know, and I was a daddy’s girl growing up for sure. My dad, both my parents are well, we’re struggling actors. And my mom decided you’ll get a quote-unquote, real job. My dad stayed back trying to be an actor still. And so basically raised me and my mom was out working. So I was really close to my dad. And I, you know, I loved sports and hated makeup and climb trees and all of that stuff that you would associate kind of with a very masculine type person. You can hear my voice is pretty low, too. And so I think I was trying to emulate my dad a lot. And my dad came out at 23 when I was 23. And that. Just kidding. All of this was fake. And now I can be my real self. And this is so great because I was hiding and I was lying and all this stuff. So it’s pretty crazy. Like, I’m 100 percent supportive of trans people. But I think it’s really important to say that it is a really hard thing to deal with someone in your life transitioning.

[00:12:51] CHRIS: Yeah. I mean, I can imagine that that’s a head-spinning thing. It has to be like, you know, it has to be like a boulder just drops in a pond and then those waves just start hitting everyone around in that thing. I can’t imagine. Did you a- Were you a-  Were you totally blindsided? Were you totally shocked?  Or were there aspects of your father’s personality that you thought so this might explain some behavior or anything like that? Were there any things that kind of clicked into place for you?

[00:13:23] CALLER: I mean, here’s the crazy thing about that, is that when you’re raised like that, you think that’s what masculine is. So for me? No, not at all. But then I had to reassess what being a man was. I’ll tell you, I realized pretty quickly why I kept dating men that turned out to be gay.

[00:13:42] CHRIS: Oh wow.

[00:13:43] CALLER: Yeah, my homecoming date, sophomore year of high school is now a woman. So deep down, I definitely had a very strange view of what masculine was. So so the answer to that question is no, because that, you know, it’s like Truman Show almost where whereas if it’s real for you, that’s what it is. So I went through a long period of reassessing what exactly men are like. And really what is it like? Does it actually mean anything to be a man or woman besides, like, your genitalia? I don’t know. But yeah, it was really a difficult question. I mean, one of the crazy things was that when I went back and listened to my dad used to record us like audio, you know, back on audiotape over there was videotape or anything like that. My dad had a conversation that we were having when I was like maybe one and a half, two, or she was talking to me in a woman’s voice. And of course, I don’t remember this because this was this is back with like this implicit memory, not explicit, but so that that was my foundation. So, of course, I have no idea.

[00:14:57] CHRIS: Wow. Now you and you say you said a totally supportive of the of trans people, of the trans community, but also on a personal level. It was something that was difficult to be in your shoes. Why? What are the bullet points? I imagine it’s far more nuanced than anybody listening can imagine for sure.

[00:15:20] CALLER: Yeah, and I actually. So again, I have to thank you for this kind of roundabout because I realized that I was having such a problem with it after I started listening to your podcast. And I was just like so obsessed with getting on because I wanted to talk about it. And I realized there is a reason that I really wanted to talk about it. So I found a Facebook group online because for nine years I never. I’m an only child. So I never talk to a single other person that had been in my shoes when transparent, the show came out. I cried like every episode because it’s very real in a lot of the scenarios that happened, like especially in the first season happened to me. So it was crazy to see even some dramatic depiction of my life because I had never spoken with anyone else about it. So when I went online and I found this support group finally, because there is nothing out there at all. When my dad came out, I looked and couldn’t find anything. But I’m online now and I’m asking some questions to some other people who are around my age. And we’re all saying the same thing, which is like so one of the things, especially when first transitioning, you go on hormones. So when you go on hormones and you’re changing, I think, either way. But you know, what I know is from male to female. My dad went through puberty again. And so my dad started acting like a teenager, which was really strange. Really, really strange. Like she would do things like. I came over one time and she had gone through my middle school jewelry and she was like wearing my dolphin mood ring from when I was eleven. And she hadn’t asked me. So it was really, really odd because not only is my dad going through my stuff, which is weird, to begin with, but it’s also like that was my middle school jewelry. And it’s not, I mean, not appropriate and offer a 50 some year old woman to wear. So it was doubly weird. And then after that, she was just not asking me.

[00:17:29] CHRIS: And you said you were 23.

[00:17:30] CALLER: Yes.

[00:17:31] CHRIS: So you’re- the person you grew up with as your father. Is on hormone treatments that are making them behave as someone who is now slightly younger than you, almost in a way. Some of the impulses are almost over. You’re still in that range, though, if like 23 is not so far from that age. What are you? What a head spinning turnaround. How did your dad come to tell you that this was going on?

[00:18:02] CALLER: Well, it was kind of a perfect setup by accident. It was right when Milk came out, the show. I mean, the movie and we went to go see it because one of the big things that my dad and I bonded extremely on, was movies and good movies. So we went and saw milk. And I think as we were driving home, I said to my father, not expecting anything at all. I said, oh my gosh, I can’t believe how somebody could live so long with their with such a big secret and not feel like themselves like that would be so horrible. I just can’t imagine. My dad literally said, well, let me tell you. And she, like, sat me down and said, this is what transgendered is. And I feel like I’m a- I feel like I am a girl and that I was a girl growing up. And this is how I’ve identified myself. And she’d been in therapy for a couple of years cause she, um, she had bouts of depression her whole life. She’s on depression meds. She went undiagnosed bipolar from most of her life. And so I think she got on bipolar meds pretty much like the year before she came out to me. So not that soon before. I mean, not that far before. But she just said, like, this is who I am. And I had no idea what it was. And to me, it was kind of like my dad just saying, well, I want to wear- I want to look like a woman. And I was like great, sure, that’s fine. Whatever. Like you’re still you. But the really hard thing to deal with was when she said, actually, all of my interests have changed. Like there is this one time- I don’t wear makeup. I’m not I make a person. I have another crazy story. We actually, my husband and I moved to Canada. We tried to leave because of Trump. No joke. We were actually those people. So our visa stuff got kind of messed up and we got kicked out. But we tried and I had an anchor baby. There’s a whole bunch more stuff there. So my son is Canadian. But anyway, the reason I was telling you that is I actually left my mascara in the U.S. and I didn’t realize for six months that I didn’t have any makeup.

[00:20:17] CHRIS: Wait hold on. You’re telling me. You’re telling me we got so much to talk about that the fact that you fled this country for political reasons and had a Canadian anchor baby is just a playful aside that we’re gonna just toss out there and then, I mean, move on from.

[00:20:32] CALLER: Look, Chris, my mother, when my dad came out, decided she was gonna date her ex-husband, who’s currently married to someone who’s dying of Parkinson’s with two children. And so, like, I’m living a soap opera. It’s just that.

[00:20:45] CHRIS: Why are you talking about. What are you talking about?

[00:20:53] CALLER: Yeah. I get that reaction a lot.

[00:20:55] CHRIS: Your mom’s stating someone who was her husband before her and your dad got together.

[00:21:01] CALLER: Yeah. So she was married three times.

[00:21:07] CHRIS: This talk about meat on the bones, this phone call has a lot of meat on the bones right here.

[00:21:17] CALLER: Yeah, I yeah, it is whenever I meet someone new, this is what happens for like maybe the first three times we hang out. I just dominate the conversation because I have this insane story where people just- my therapists like the ones that aren’t that great, just love me coming every week so that they can hear more. It’s like the next chapter

[00:21:38] CHRIS: Yeah is your shrink, the popcorn? What’s going on? Yes. So I have a question. I have a question. And I’ve been trying to follow your lead, but it’s also just something I wanna ask. I want to make sure because, you know, I tried. I tried to be. I think I think I am a pretty open minded person. And I think I’m a very respectful person. I do keep asking about your father, referring to the past tense as I want to make sure that I’m not. Is that- am I doing something offensive there? I actually don’t know if that because I know that is a gendered term and I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feeling.

[00:22:13] CALLER: Yeah, I know. That’s a it’s it’s an extremely good question. And it actually is something that just came up again for my dad. So when she came out, she said, I can call her- I call her pop. Right. So I’ve been calling her pop for the nine years that she’s been a woman because honestly, you just learn to de gender. You know, she is. She’s my dad. She’s a lady, but she’s also my dad because that’s what happened. You know, and that’s like that’s just what it is. But this Mother’s Day, which was just crazy because this is my first Mother’s Day, I had a son in October. So I was so excited about this being, you know, my first time as a mom with a baby on the outside. And my dad called me two days before and said, you know, I don’t really feel like celebrating Father’s Day anymore. I want to be celebrated on Mother’s Day. What do you think about that? And I said, wow, no, I can’t. Not this year. I just cannot like it. You know, it’s two days from now. And this is not enough time for me to process that. And so. So, yeah, now the conversation is because my son is gonna be calling her gran. Right. And so the conversation is, well, what do I call her now for my son’s sake, which is a huge political debate right now. And there are a lot of people. It will always be I’m sure, but there are people on both sides which are like, no. She’s my father. And then there is the other side where it’s like, no. But she wants to be- They call it passing. So she wants to pass. It would be, you know, detrimental to her. Especially in a public setting or something. If you called her by a male pronoun and kind of gave her away because she is she’s going to be having the surgery finally in December, which is another political issue, which is crazy for a long time. She always wanted the surgery, but she couldn’t afford it because it was considered cosmetic. So insurance companies wouldn’t cover it. And Obamacare finally came in and gave rights to them. To say that the gender dysphoria surgery is not cosmetic, which it’s not just like if you were you know, if you are born with two different genitalia is that you would have the surgery. And that’s not cosmetic either. At least that’s how I feel about it. So, yes, so she’s getting the surgery. So she’ll be you know, she’s had hormones. And so she is a woman in every aspect except for what’s between your legs at this point and to and soon that’ll be changing, too. So that is the question. But for right now, I still call her pop. And I think as long as you refer to her as a she, you’re in the clear.

[00:24:49] CHRIS: Okay. Okay. And it sounds like your relationship at this point just from picking up in between lines. I’m sure there’s been moments of real emotion, but it seems like you’re still close.

[Phone hanging up click]

[00:25:04] CHRIS: I think that seems like a good time to go ahead and hit the pause button on the phone call because guess what, guys, we’ve got advertisers, they’ve got products, services, things you might like such as promo codes. And when you use those promo codes, it helps the show. So I Chris Gethard a.k.a. apparently the therapy fairy. I’m going to fly away on my little therapy fairy wings and we’ll be back soon with warm phone call right after this.

[AD BREAK]

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[00:27:10] CHRIS: And it sounds like your relationship at this point just from picking up in between lines. I’m sure there’s been moments of real emotion, but it seems like you’re still close.

[00:27:20] CALLER: Well, yes, it’s funny, but I didn’t I. I’ve been obsessed with their show, but I haven’t told her about it for a reason because I felt like if I ever got through that, I would want to be super honest. And it really affected our relationship a lot. I think it affects trust on a huge level. When someone says, I’ve been lying to you for twenty-three years and you’re twenty three. You know, it’s like. Doesn’t matter what it is. But that right there can kill any type of relationship. And we we don’t have as much in common. You know, I don’t like makeup and I like jewelry and I don’t. I have a problem with my feet where if I wear heels, they my arches like break literally. So I can’t even wear shoes more than like flats. So we just don’t we don’t have that much in common anymore. So I wouldn’t I wouldn’t say close, sadly. And that is it’s really sad. I was talking to- my husband has a couple of really put together parents. I was talking to him about how crazy it was that he actually had like these supportive, mature parents with good boundaries. And I’ve constantly dealt with like parents that wanted to be friends or parents that wanted me to parent them or his parents with this bipolar. You know, especially the undiagnosed like there is one time in high school or when in college when I got mad at her and she left me a suicide voicemail and disappeared for four hours. So it’s. Yeah. It’s a very there’s a very interesting question. And I want my son to be close with her. But there is a reason. I mean, we we moved to Canada for Trump, definitely, because I’ll say I love socialized medicine. I’m actually just saying I love the Canadian government and the Canadian people and gun laws and all of that. But it was a relief to me to think that I was going to be away because my parents, my mom, my mom is now in California, but my dad still lives in the same general area as I do now that we had to move back here.

[00:29:42] CHRIS: But what I mean, I clearly but I also have to say in some ways for it for as much as it’s clearly been. So it’s like frustrating in a trial for you in your life also. You know, I think there is something beautiful to point out was that your answer is not. You know, anything based in like hatefulness towards you know who your fathers become or toward a lifestyle or a group of people, it’s more. Oh, no, it’s just. I didn’t. I guess I didn’t know. I guess I didn’t know this person. And I guess I have to get to know this person now because.

[00:30:17] CALLER: Yeah, it’s it is it’s like to put it extremely harshly because I don’t think I’ve ever actually been able to put it this harshly. Sometimes it feels like this person killed my father. And in a way, that’s right. You know, I well, think about it this way. When you lose, my father as a male does not exist anymore. This person is gone. And normally when that happens, you have this grieving period, you have this ritual, the ceremony. You go to this funeral. This memorial service. And people bring you food and people give you cards and people just give you your space. And they really support you and they and they let you process that. But for me, especially with my dad’s kind of the bipolar, that was going on, because when she went on hormones, the bipolar men stopped working. So we had some really rough years at the beginning when they were trying to figure out all the dosages and making sure that things weren’t counteracting each other. But she went really hardcore on me. You know, if you don’t support me, then then you’re dead to me or, you know, like this is that you’re against me and you don’t believe in me and you don’t want me to be happy. So I didn’t have- I wasn’t allowed any processing time, even more than that. I was actually being forced into this like black and white. You’re with me or you’re against me. You have to hear about trans rights every time you talk to me for like two years. You know, which can be taxing on anyone regardless of the issue. So it is it’s a very strange feeling to think about it that way. But that is how I feel sometimes because I don’t have a dad anymore. And this person came in and basically said, your dad’s gone. Now it’s me. And I don’t know. We’ve always had issues like the other issues with her because of some other stuff in her past where she never really was a parent per se. Like she really tried to just be a buddy, like a friend. And for a while. And it worked really well because I was young and then I went through the teenage years. But I think she ever really knew how to be like a real parent parent. And so then she came through and then she went through adolescence. And then I was basically older than her. And I don’t think it’s ever it’s never gone anywhere from there. So, yeah, it is. It doesn’t feel like a parent situation anyway.

[00:32:41]  CHRIS: Wow, this is by far out of all the calls we’ve ever done. One that is so much to wrap one’s brain around. This is a lot. Here’s a question I have, though, and it might be unfair because I ask you to speculate a little bit, but maybe you’ve talked about it. Do you look back and feel like there’s any element? I would imagine, you know, you’ve mentioned that your father always dealt with bipolar, which is such a, you know, nasty thing. Do you feel like I would have to imagine is it. Is there any level to which now that this transition is happening? Are you seeing any effect on that? Because I would have to imagine that if you’re someone who’s prone to that and you’re also keeping a massive secret from yourself and everyone, and on top of that, you don’t feel comfortable in your own skin. I have to imagine those things all exasperate. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Exacerbate each other. Do you feel like now that we’re. Yeah, things are out in the open. It’s there. Is there any side of it where it’s like. Oh. Is there any sense of peace or tranquility that wasn’t there where you feel like maybe these things all tied in together? Is that just. Am I. Now I’m just armchair over here.

[00:33:55] CALLER: No, no, no. Like. No, I totally get it. And, you know, this is why I mean, what is it? I don’t want to get super political with the numbers that I don’t remember, but I think it’s like 40 percent, 40 percent of trans people have a suicide attempt at some point in their life. And my dad had multiple. I mean, this is why this is absolutely why. When you are told that you are a different gender than you are transgendered people, they know they know when they understand gender that they’re the other gender. So my dad knew and she was like three. You know, that’s kind of when you start understanding girls and boys. And she was just a girl and she had no idea why she had a penis. And I’ve done a lot of research because, you know, having a son and my parents being so reactionary, I am like the opposite. I am extremely deliberate in my parenting and extremely well researched. So I’ve done a lot of research on like epigenetics, which is that idea where genes you have the option at a very young age. Genes get turned on or off. And so it depends on your environment. Sure, it’s genetic, but then it depends on your environment, whether it turns on or off. And so I’m assuming that especially feeling like you’re the wrong gender and having to do it, so much of that crap early in life, it’s just like, you know, exacerbates any mental problems that you might already have in there. And have you turned on. So that would be my guess that all of it just wraps up into one cause, you know. Of course, bipolar is genetic and depression is genetic. And transgendered is just, you know, something genetic that they haven’t figured out yet. But I’m I’m sure that all of these kind of triggered one another because you see so many trans people that also have, you know, bipolar and depression and a slew of other mental health problems. And I’m sure a lot of people that are against trans would say like, oh, it’s just those things that are making them feel like they’re the opposite gender. But really, I think you’re right. I think it just exacerbates what’s already there.

[00:35:59] CHRIS: It’s also one of those things, too, where it’s whenever you hear that where people are, it’s those things causing it. It’s that it’s not one thing, it’s the other. It’s like the older I get, the more when I hear people have those sort of like circular arguments like that. I’m also like, well, who cares? Like, who cares? Who cares?

[00:36:16] CALLER :Hey, can you please mind your own business?

[00:36:18] CHRIS: It’s like chicken egg. Who cares? Who cares if people make life choices that make them healthier and happier? I don’t really dude. I don’t know if we all need to point fingers about what’s what. It’s only a few. But you would say that you’re. Are you seeing that effect? Are you. Would you say that? You know. Does your father seem to be more happy?

[00:36:40] CALLER: Now that she is feeling like herself? Yeah. So yes and no. And I think that’s really interesting, too, because my father was an alcoholic until I was eleven as well. And she’s in recovery and successfully in recovery since then. But she also had an eating addiction, very, very overweight and lost a ton of weight when she came out, which was great. But she had anger problems and all this stuff. And she said, you know, oh, well, now that I am me, all of this is gonna go away and did it. No, no, actually not. It did go to a certain extent. She is definitely happier. Definitely, definitely happier. But that stuff is still there because again, I think it had to do with what was going on when all of this was setting in like that 0 to 5. And so like the 55, she came out. And I think it’s gonna be there. And I think that it’s not like because again, if it is now that she is living as a woman, made that stuff less, then it wouldn’t be genetic, like she still has it. It’s just not it. Yeah. She’s just happier in general. So yeah, there haven’t been any suicide attempts since then. But she you know, she still has some episodes and she’s still angry sometimes and too. She’s definitely the bipolar part that gets her the most is the paranoia. So she definitely goes on highs and gets super paranoid. And she does have the eating disorder coming back in again. So she is curbing that is going back to counseling for that. But so yes and no, I guess, you know, it’s like it’s the same as if somebody had an abusive relationship that was keeping them down and they were depressive. They’re definitely happier when they’re out of it. But it doesn’t get rid of that stuff.

[00:38:27] CHRIS: Cause it’s still someone who’s prone to addiction and a survivor of abuse and there’s no- It’s one of those situations in life that we so many versions of it where we start to think, oh, well, if you can just- we forget that- life doesn’t have- the credits don’t roll. You don’t have moments in real life where the credits roll and things are solved, you know. And we all do this. Like, you know, and I know in my world in entertainment everybody’s like, oh, I’ll get that job that’ll validate all the struggle and hard work. And then you get the job, you’re like. It didn’t change the fact that I’m like a neurotic, anxious wreck. And it’s it happens everywhere. So what is it? What is sobering? Look at things. What a sobering look at things. This is, I have to say, I am fascinated. I am fascinated.

[00:39:18] CALLER: I was hoping you would be.

[00:39:22] CHRIS: Yeah, I am. Here’s a question that I have for you, because it’s something I’m sitting here thinking about. It’s a weird one, which you have to think about a lot. I want to add almost loops back to that support group. I want to know more about what it was like to find that support group, especially ten years ago, because, you know, I’m as a host right now treading on a line where there’s probably trans listeners to this show listening, going. You can’t have this person tell their father’s story for them. But it’s your story, you know. But I’m asking a lot of questions about their psychology, about her psychology, about her choices. So I want to know. I want to focus back in. Like when you find that support group 10 years ago, I would have to imagine, especially 10 years ago, I have to think. There’s only, still only, I mean and pardon my ignorance on this, but the examples that come to mind, you mentioned Transparent. Think about Laverne, Laverne Cox, right. I think Laverne. Yeah. Orange is the New Black. It’s Laverne Cox. Yeah.

[00:40:22] CALLER: Thank you for not saying, Caitlyn Jenner. The trans community was not super excited about that.

[00:40:30] CHRIS: I would omit anything related to like a sensationalistic reality show. I’d have to imagine people would have to brace themselves for it. Yeah, but I don’t even remember when Orange is the New Black started up. I don’t think it was 10 years ago. Definitely. No. I guess I was with my wife. So. Did you almost feel like you were? Entering it like it, I feel like it was a very the sense I get and pardon my ignorance, but just the sense I get just as being the dummy that I am is this was still very much a hidden culture 10 years ago, especially compared to right now.

[00:41:08] CALLER: Yeah, well, no. So so I did not find this support group 10 years ago. I didn’t find it until like two weeks ago because there was nothing ten years ago.

[00:41:16] CHRIS: Oh! So what was that?

[00:41:18] CALLER: Your show made me look again, because when I went to go look 10 years ago, what I found. Gosh, I think I’m still on the Yahoo!  Group that stands out like the Digest emails of one group that was in Chicago. Of like maybe 10 people. And it was like. I don’t know. I never even interacted with it. It just didn’t even fit. So no I went 9 years without having any anyone. Nobody. Because again, only child like I don’t even have a sibling to go through this with.

[00:41:57] CHRIS: And when you had that conversation in the car where this first came out after you saw milk, are you the it sounds like your father had been processing it with a shrink. You had mentioned. But are you the first person in her personal life to learn about this?

[00:42:11] CALLER: I don’t know. I know. I think I think she already told my mom. So, yeah, I think I think she told my mom and then told me. But I don’t- I actually never asked that question.

[00:42:26] CHRIS: So when you’re twenty-three. Had you had you heard of the idea of being trans before your father brought it up to you?

[00:42:37] CALLER: No. I didn’t know a transgendered was. I mean, I had heard the phrase, but I also didn’t know what the difference between like transvestite transgendered and crossdresser was for sure. No idea.

[00:42:47] CHRIS: Yeah, I’m trying to think. I think my the first. I’m trying to think I remember there was a fan of my comedy who I used to see around town, who was also a big Morrissey fan. And I remember when she transitioned, but that was not someone I knew well, that was just someone to watch from afar. That must have been around two thousand ten, eleven twelve. And I feel like that was the first time that I knew someone who is public, and visible. And I don’t know that I even knew 10 year, 10 years ago, I think was it. And I’m in New York City. And I was ignorant to this. What was said like, what was that like being an only child going. Okay. Let me sort this out. What are the steps there?

[00:43:30] CALLER: Well, I really wanted to be supportive and as weird as this sounds. And, you know, it’s funny because I’m a part of your Facebook group and I really don’t want people to hate me for saying things that sound really harsh. So please, Facebook group be nice to me. I care a lot about my dad. But it was a- I just completely lost my train of thought. Mommy brain is real by the way, I not been able to like keep a train of thought for a really long time. Ask me your question again?

[00:44:07] CHRIS: I was just basically I just was basically saying, you’re 23. You don’t you’ve never heard of this. You don’t know anyone else who’s ever dealt with this. And then for years, you just had to put the piece together. You’re also I mean, so I’ll say this, too, for someone who’s telling us about something that was really intense and for someone who’s got an eight-month-old kid and so you never sleep. You’re so well-spoken and clear and expressive. So don’t even worry about that. I was just asking about the emotions. You know, I’m one of the most fascinating things you said is this idea of like, oh, you know, for as much as it’s clear that you love your parent. It also feels like this person took your parent from you or replaced your parent short notice Like no notice overnight. That’s such a fascinating thing you don’t hear. And I would have to think. I would have to think. Certainly a touchy subject. There’s certainly people who are going to have strong opinions on it. But I would have to think that anyone listening is giving you credit as someone who’s thought hard about this experience for yourself and desire, just telling us what it was like to live through it on your end of it. So I don’t think there’s any you know, in my end, I don’t think anyone’s going to listen and say- I certainly think there are. I know. I know a few. People who have met to Beautiful Anonymous, who identify it varying in varying ways and amongst them are trans people and I’m sure they’re going to have opinions, but I don’t think you’re coming off as close-minded. Also hearing the emotions of a 23-year-old over. What I’m basically saying is when I was 23, I used to go big with the emotions and I wasn’t dealing with this. So you’re gonna tell us about these emotions. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with just being honest about that, about the emotions of being a 23-year-old who didn’t know what was going on and what that was like.

[00:45:48] CALLER: Well, what’s funny is at twenty-three, I was actually. Well, let me put it this way. Like I said, I’m an only child and my parents were extremely reactive. And I know how to talk about this because I’ve been through so much therapy. But at twenty-three, I was really like still kind of living what my parents wanted me to be, which was kind of a parent for them and a support system for them. So when my dad came out and needed support, I was there like I wasn’t even thinking about myself. At 23, I went to the trans support group with her as her daughter to support her with a bunch of other trans people, like within the week that my dad came out. So and I was, you know, and I still am like an advocate of trans rights for sure. I worked on the Obama campaign in 08 because my best friend is a dreamer and I wanted health care. And I am an entrepreneur and a, you know, a self-employed person. And so Obamacare is amazing for me. And, you know, there was a lot of stuff that went under the table that not a lot of people knew about or there was a lot of not a lot of press. But Obama really helped the trans community a lot. And I did a lot of work for it because I- It was amazing that my dad can now have like a driver’s license that says female and a passport that says female. And I think at this point she’s got the birth certificate changed. So those are huge things, especially with the stupid bathroom bill stuff. And like all of this crazy crap that’s coming out now just to have that, you know, because if anybody questions her, you know, for a while, she didn’t have the female on her driver’s license. So like when she was picking up cigarettes or something or somebody carded her for whatever reason and they saw that. I think I think there was one time or she even got denied. They wouldn’t give her whatever it was that she was trying to buy because the gender didn’t match on her driver’s license. So I worked for all of that and I still like in theory and in my best days, like really what I really want to work so hard for the trans community because this is my dad and I will always care for my father. But yeah, no, I, when I started going to therapy and started really working through it, was when I realized that I just hadn’t given myself even the time to process the loss because nobody gave it to me and I didn’t take it. So it was just a I’m literally now, almost 10 years later, thinking about whether we can do a memorial service. But it feels so selfish to want to do it for me now and so far, far from the actual transition. I don’t really know how to ask for it?

[00:48:31] CHRIS: It is that sort of like a ceremony or tradition or ritual that people do in this situation?

[00:48:40] CALLER: I mean, look, this group that I’m on, on Facebook, I think there are 150 of us and it’s national. So I don’t think that there’s like things that people do yet, especially since this is hopefully something that is only going to happen to a select few of us because trans people can come out now. They you know, of course, it’s still very dangerous. And a really, really difficult thing to talk about. But at least it’s not like. Something that is impossible and not in the public eye. And people don’t even know the name for, so I’m hoping that there won’t be a lot of people like me, adults that find out that their parents have been hiding something from them for 50 some years. But I don’t know. I mean, it was suggested at the time, but it was suggested in a bad way by a different therapist, not my dad’s therapist. And it was like way too much for me to say. At that point, I was like, no, my dad’s not dead. This is ridiculous. Like, she is right there. You know, she’s just a lady. But now, 10 years later, I see how actually it would be really nice to just be upset. To just actually be sad- I don’t- because I’ll tell you, I have a lot of clarity on this. I go to Burning Man every year. And not this past year because I was pregnant. But but I go every year. And I met someone last, no 2 years ago who I just became infatuated with. And no worries I didn’t cheat on my husband and my husband knows about all of it. It’s kind of like an open communication process that was happening with him. Because this guy reminded me just 100 percent of my dad as a male. And I was just like obsessed with him because he reminded me of my dad. And I kept saying, like, why is this so strong? Why? Why do I want to talk to this guy all the time? And I realized it’s because I missed my dad so much and my dad just wasn’t the same person anymore. So that was kind of when I started realizing that there was a lot of stuff buried that I had just set aside and didn’t deal with. There’d be a fully supportive daughter. And so I started working through that again. But it comes in chunks. Then, you know, I got pregnant and that was all about that. And I’m just now getting back into it and kind of put forward again by this transition. And my dad getting the surgery now and saying that she doesn’t want to be doing Father’s Day anymore. So I’m back at it.

[00:51:03] CHRIS: Let’s pump the brakes a second right there. We’ll get back to more of this phone call. And guess what? Some discussion, parenting, might ruffle some feathers in some ways you don’t see coming based on what we’ve heard before. All that and more when we get back. Stay tuned.

[AD BREAK]

[00:51:20] CHRIS: It’s been a little while, but Michael Ian Black is back on ear Wolf. Michael Ian Black, such a hilarious dude, thoughtful dude. It’s got a new podcast called Obscure.  In Obscure Michael tackles a great work of literature he’s never read and that you probably haven’t either. He’s written one of the most well-respected books ever written. Jude the Obscure. He’s reading it out loud. He’s commenting as he goes, even though he didn’t really want to. That sounds funny to me. This book has been on his bookshelf for years mocking him, but he’s reading it for you. It’s got a lot of thoughts to share along the way. Michael was a guest on the Chris Gethard show, the TV show, and he was really great. And really, I tell you, really knows how to balance being a thoughtful guy and a funny guy. He’s a it’s funny. He’s such a. His sense of humor can feel so detached. But then he’s also so heartfelt at the same time is really interesting. Dude like him a lot. Join Michael Ian Black, some of his famous and non-famous friends and experts as he discovers Jude’s world. A few things about his own to the terrible idea. Probably. But it’s a terrible idea he wants to do with you. So do it. Subscribe to obscure now and stitcher apple podcasts or wherever you listen.

[00:52:27] CHRIS: Thanks again to all of our advertisers who help us bring this show to the world. Now let’s finish off the phone call

[00:52:35] CALLER: put forward again by this transition and my dad getting the surgery now and saying that she doesn’t want to be doing Father’s Day anymore. So I’m back in it.

[00:52:44] CHRIS: Right. I mean, it is as you think. It is so unique. It’s like I would have to imagine it. You’re it’s such a unique situation where, like, you can probably look at pictures from your childhood and have. That same feeling of like, I wish I could. I wish I could talk to him one more time in the same way that someone whose parent did pass away might. But your parents. Luckily, still alive.

[00:53:11] CALLER: Yeah my dad’s gone. My dad’s not not that person anymore. Like, it’s definitely not. And we were so close. We are so close. I. I was a kid for a number of reasons. But I never did anything bad. I told everything to my parents. I literally have not a single thing that like I didn’t tell them. I didn’t do bad things. That was just that. I didn’t drink until I was 19. And it was because my parents pulled me aside and I was already in college. And they said, you know, like, hey, it’s kind of abnormal at this point that you haven’t tried any alcohol. Do you want something? I tried it like I tried some Bailey’s Irish cream sitting at a pool of a friend’s house with them. And it took me about two hours to drink like, maybe half a shot. And I mean, I can enjoy alcohol now.  I’m in total like straight scotch girl. But I just didn’t. I didn’t do anything. You know, I was really close just to your class and told them everything.

[00:54:10] CHRIS: A classic tale of discovery and booze sippin- just take a couple of little sips of Bailey’s next to a pool with your parents.

[00:54:21] CALLER: Well, yeah I am sure that that’s everyone’s story, right?

[00:54:24] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s much more common than mine, which is some friend of mine managed to convince a man of questionable character to buy a bunch of Miller genuine draft. And we kept it in the woods of New Jersey and we would walk in the cold through the woods, and then we’d drink skunked beer in the woods because we had it and we didn’t know what skunked meant. So we’d just drink in the woods and then we’d get blackout drunk and feel bad.

[00:54:53] CALLER: No, with an alcoholic that was a real alcoholic until I was eleven, I was convinced that I was going to be an alcoholic if I had even a taste of booze. And it’s still in the back of my mind. I am a very responsible, responsible alcohol drinker. But it’s like every time I think that I want like a beer or like, you know, a little bit of scotch, I’ll be like is this? No, it’s just me wanting a drink. It’s fine.

[00:55:18] CHRIS: Right. You- very measured. Very, very measured, thoughtful person in all areas. It’s becoming clear. I’ve two big questions for you.

[00:55:28] CALLER: but not sometimes it’s not good.

[00:55:30] CHRIS: Okay, So you wish you were a little more impulsive. It sounds like you wish you could let your guard down a little bit. You feel like maybe some of the some of the circumstances that you’ve come up with have not allowed that.

[00:55:41] CALLER: Yeah, I mean, I’m the ultimate mother, right? So I’ll be a great mother to my son. But I wasn’t really ever a kid.

[00:55:49] CHRIS: Well, that’s one of the questions I wanted to ask is, you know, you’ve mentioned a little bit about, you know, you really research your parenting strategies. You really do. How has your experience? I mean, because. Because, again, you know, we’ve talked about the big one, but you mentioned that even even before this adjustment in your life, before these big changes, that your parents, your relationship wasn’t what you’d call traditional. Sounds like that’s still the case with your mom as well. How, as you have a kid now is what are the things you’re thinking about where you’re like, okay, here’s the adjustments I’m going to make.

[00:56:22] CALLER: Well, I’m coming from a place where I just know what I don’t want to do. And that’s what’s so hard. You know, like I my husband. Well, first of all, I was a mistake. My mom told me that. And my parents told me that they considered abortion. And it was a hot-button issue between the two of them. And my mother never forgave my father for wanting one. So I’m pretty sure I was a one night stand. They were in the sound of music together.

[00:56:52] CHRIS: This is one hell of an origin story.

[00:56:59] CALLER: And then my mom was thirty-nine already and had been married and divorced twice. And they were dating. And then she found out that she was pregnant and they did a shotgun wedding in their bluejeans and at the courthouse. And that was it. Like, they kind of lived together for me. I mean, my mother had this problem for a very long time and she’s like just now getting to the point where she’s kind of been forced not to do it, but she’s been just a victim her whole life. Like, really forced herself to be a victim. Done a lot of work to make sure she’s a victim. But she’s she basically said that she didn’t love my father the entire time they were married, but she only stayed together with my father because of me. And she was worried that my dad was going to hurt me with. Which, my dad has never been physically abusive to anyone. So that was you know, that was a little bit of a stretch. And so I don’t know, like I just don’t. We planned this pregnancy and we made sure we actually tried for 11 months before he was actually conceived. I was at the point they don’t consider you infertile and you can’t go in for treatments or anything until 12 months. But I actually bought my way into a fertility clinic because I was so worried. And when I got in, there were like. We still can’t do anything because you’re not infertile. So I had started reading pregnancy books when we started trying to conceive. So 11 months of pregnancy books. And so I was through the pregnancy books by the time I was actually pregnant. Then through the pregnancy, I was reading parenting books. So we’re just like the uber delivered parents. And I basically started from zero and just decided what made sense to me, which is I would like to say this. I actually said to myself, if I ever get on here and I am anonymous, I’m going to say co-sleeping is awesome. It is not scary. You will not kill your child. Just do it safely and is cry it out is really horrible.

[00:59:09] CHRIS: Cry sleeping wait no co-sleeping is having this child sleep in the bed with you?

[00:59:13] CALLER: Yes, it is. There is just. Oh, my gosh, I could go on a rant for forever about this because this is the way that we did it from my caveman days. And if so many children died of suffocation because of co-sleeping, we wouldn’t exist as humans. So it doesn’t make any sense. There’s a lot of really sensationalized data out there about co-sleeping and people are really scared about it because they have these crazy campaigns. But I’ll tell you what. Crib companies make a lot of money from it.

[00:59:38] CHRIS: My position, my prediction, my prediction is that more people are gonna be mad about your stance on co-sleeping than they are about anything you’ve said about your experiences.

[00:59:53] CALLER: Yeah, I am absolutely certain that you are right. But see, I’m anonymous and I don’t care about that.

[00:59:56] CHRIS: That’s great. I will say you just got more emotional and worked up about that than anything else you’ve told in the prior 53 minutes, all of which- you just went in and you might as well just like cocked a shotgun and kicked open a door about co-sleeping, an issue which I will point out no one brought up.

[01:00:15] CALLER: Well, you said how I was going to raise my son and I was picking, co-sleeping is a big aspect of it. I mean, it’s big. It’s like a big deal to actually do. It’s a lot of hard work and a lot of preparation. But we’re also like, you know, we do attachment parenting, which is it’s also pretty hard. I’m doing the breastfeeding thing, which has been ridiculously hard because there’s a lot of- women have a hard time with breastfeeding and it’s not as perfect as people think that it is. And you don’t get a lot of support. So but breastfeeding is so amazing and it’s so it does so much for so many different things. So that’s why I just I’m really passionate about the way that I’m raising my son because we raise him very differently than I think the majority of people in the US do. And I don’t really have a community of people where I can just sit down and bitch at them about how we are very different than everyone else. And we get like- co-sleeping especially it is. You’ll see the Facebook group will go nuts. But it is it’s a very controversial issue because sid is like- they roped in suffocation and sid. They basically are just saying that like parents, because there are people out there that get like blackout drunk and then take Ambien and then sleep in the same bed as their child, which I would never do in my life is like the same as preparing and making sure that everything is set up and it’s like the same amount of danger level. So there is a lot of stuff out there.

[01:01:42] CHRIS: People are gonna mad about this. People are gonna mad about this.

[01:01:47] CALLER: I’m happy to stir controversy with this because it needs to be talked about. It’s just like the problem. Screw the transgender thing. No.

[01:01:56] CHRIS: God, no, now you’ve done it. That that saying- now that sound clip is going to get isolated and that’s gonna go everywhere.

[01:02:05] CALLER: No right No, I love the whole transgender community and it has nothing to do with co-sleeping or how I’m raising my son. No, but co-sleeping is amazing. I’ll just say that there has never been a single day that I have felt like my son was in danger. And it’s amazing to wake up, like the other day. He woke up probably like one minute before I did and then just smacked me in the face. So that was a really nice way to wake up.

[01:02:29] CHRIS: But it sounds like you’re very into the idea of research, things going with a strong sense of intent. Build a foundation that has a game plan behind a purpose. Let the kid feel that if you’re doing the attachment parent. Yeah. Is this kid like- Is this kid like right next to you this whole time?

[01:02:49] CALLER: No, cause he was- my husband. So when we moved back to the states. We were going to not work for both of us for a year. We had saved enough up and we weren’t paying a mortgage in Canada, not because we were taking advantage of the system, but because his mother in law owns a house here. So we were both gonna be single parents for a full year, which I think is really amazing. But when we came back here, one of us had to go back to work. And I’m more specialized. I made more money per hour. So I ended up going back to work because it was less hours for the amount of money that we needed to pay our mortgage. So my husband is still a stay at home for the most part, and I’m only working like 13 hours a week or so. But so my husband is home and he and he took him into the other room when I got on hold a while.

[01:03:36] CHRIS: I want to ask a hard question, but I’d feel I’d feel irresponsible if I didn’t ask it. It’s it. You know, we mentioned the high suicide rates in the trans community attempt especially attempted. There’s also a pretty remarkable amount of violence against trans people, especially trans women, as my understanding is that. Do you have to sit around being scared now is that. I hate to even bring it up. We only have three minutes left, but I feel like I was a cop-out if I didn’t ask.

[01:04:15] CALLER: No. I mean, it’s something look, it was something where she understood the risks when she came out. And if you saw my dad down the street at this point, you wouldn’t. Yeah. At least from my perspective, you wouldn’t look twice. She is somebody who passes pretty well. She’s got- she had feminine features before that. You can really tell. Because, you know, she was a man and you weren’t really looking for it. But when she transitioned and she wears away again, she has breasts because of the hormones and everything. So it’s not something where especially now that she has more of a sense of style and knows how to do her makeup and clothes, everything. You’d be pretty hard pressed to like tell her that she’s not a woman. Like you’d probably get some weird stares if you question that with her at this point. So not with my father because she passes pretty well. But I do have to say, like another random bit about me is that I’m a professional singer and I sing professionally for Catholic churches. I’m not Catholic. But I loved when you were talking about the peace be with you on the other. Yeah. Because I love that part of it. And I can totally get down at the peace be with you. And I also do not say, Lord, hear our prayer with the stuff that I don’t agree with.

[01:05:29] CHRIS: Yeah, you gotta bail every once in a while. There’s nothing. Everything about your life is insanely specific. Do you know that? Your parenting style, your job, your back story on both paternal and maternal sides? Everything about you is ultra specific. Your politics?

[01:05:45] CALLER: Yeah, I was raised by actors. I know how to talk. That’s for sure.

[01:05:51] CHRIS: You drive an electric car, don’t you? You definetly drive an electric car.

[01:05:53]  CALLER: I do. I do have a Prius. I love my Prius.

[01:05:58] CHRIS: I knew it. I knew it was going to be at least a hybrid based on everything else. That should be a new game. At the end of the podcast is based on what people say, I guess. What kind of car they drive. I knew it. I knew it. You recycle. Do you have a car? You compost. I bet you compost.

[01:06:19] CALLER: No, I’m way too lazy. I would like to.

[01:06:22] CHRIS: Yeah, you sound real lazy.

[01:06:25] CALLER: Right. Right. Well, maybe. Maybe. Let me just say that I choose to use my time for other things. Yeah, but we recycle. Is that good?

[01:06:34] CHRIS: Yeah, it’s very good. We have one minute left. This has been one of the more fascinating calls, I would say in the history of the show. Anything you want to get out in these last 50 seconds?

[01:06:46] CALLER: Besides the co-sleeping thing, I really can’t wait to see the Facebook group talk about that. No, I thank you so much, because like I said, I happened upon your podcast and you just kind of randomly and it helped me remember why I wanted to talk about this stuff. And I really hope that this reaches some people that might have not heard this perspective before about the trans issue.

[01:07:09] CHRIS: Well, I want to thank you for calling and for sharing. Everything was eye-opening. And most importantly, I hope you do continue to find the ways to take care yourself.

[01:07:18] CALLER: Thank you. Yeah. And I’m not going to be the person that gets cut off. So you get to talk for the rest of the time.

[01:07:23] CHRIS:  Really? Why do you think that? [Long pause]

[01:07:27] CALLER: Not doing it.

[01:07:28] CHRIS: Ah, I almost had you

[Music Break]

[01:07:38] CHRIS: Caller, thank you again for calling. Being so open, being so honest, causing so much trouble with parenting, taking stuff 100 percent guarantee that that will cause more uproar than anything else, which I think actually maybe speaks to some positive momentum in the world in terms of certain issues. think that’s really great.

Guess who’s back in the booth? The Reverend John Delore rejoins us one day only.  Old Jarred O’Connell is somewhere counting his money, Reverend John Delore is back back from the early days. Thank you, John, for everything. And thank you Gretta Cono who built to show in the early days. Thank you, Jared. Who is omewhere off- somewhere right now being a nice guy. Counting his money. Thank you, Gary Nelson for getting me the tea. That was awful nice. Thanks to Shells Gag for the intro music. Wanna know more about me when I’m going out on the road. ChrisGeth.com is the Web site. All the dates are there like the show got Apple podcast rate where you subscribed. It really does help more than, you know, until the next time on Beautiful Anonymous.

[NEXT EPISODE PREVIEW]

[01:08:46]  CHRIS: Next time on Beautiful Anonymous. Who knew that Copenhagen is the greatest place ever and we all got a visit right now.

[01:08:54] CHRIS: But do people in Denmark have jobs and stuff to spend all day smoking weed in the streets and then jumping in lakes?

[01:09:02] CALLER: We are just really good about our drinking and then working at the same time.

[01:09:08] CHRIS: You’re making it sound like such a fantasy land where anything goes.

[01:09:12] CALLER: It becomes operatic. It is absolute fantasy land. Like the health care and the drinking, you can’t really amount to anything else.

[01:09:21]  CHRIS: What are all these frolicking, screaming young people? Why do I live in America? You’re making just the background noise alone of this call. Makes me feel like I live in the wrong part of the world. It’s making me feel like there’s youth and adventure.

[01:09:35]  CHRIS: That’s next time on Beautiful Anonymous.