EP. 108 — Taylor Tomlinson

Jameela [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. A podcast that doesn’t ever want you to feel shame. Unless. All right. Unless you are one of the people who has been up my ass this week. I’ve had a very stressful week. It’s been all right. It’s been alright. I’m alright. But it’s been annoying. I basically heard that Elon Musk had bought Twitter, was buying Twitter, so I was like, Well, fuck this then. I’m not staying. I’m not staying. One of the main things he wanted to focus on changing is having more free speech. People are already fucking horrendous on that app, so if he’s not going to regulate and he’s going to let anyone say anything in the name of quote unquote free speech, which people always misunderstand and take as you can just say whatever the fuck you like then I’m probably out because racism and transphobia and ableism, sexism, all these things are already really bad. Rape culture is really bad. It’s just so much bad already on that site. We don’t need terrible people who don’t understand the Constitution to have license to be even worse. And as a brown woman, I was like, Hmm, yeah, maybe not, maybe not for me. And so I, in a very tongue in cheek tweet, said I was leaving. And, you know, I’ve been a menace to society anyway on Twitter. So it’s a win win for everyone and posted like some cute pictures of barreled and just said this free speech thing makes me fear that there’s going to be a rise in hate, bigotry, misogyny etc. on the app. And I wished everyone good luck and I fucked off. You’d think that people who don’t like me anyway and don’t care about me and never normally engage with me would just be happy that I’d gone and then just get on with their lives. But no, no, no. I would say almost entirely white men, exclusively white men have gone fucking bananas over this. They’re obsessed. They’re screaming, they’re crying, they’re wanking, they’re wheezing. They can’t seem to believe it. They’re very upset that I’ve left. And they’re saying somehow that I am a fascist for suppressing their free speech when I haven’t done that. I’ve just left. I can’t stop you from talking, but I can stop myself from having to hear you. I’m not suppressing anyone. I’m not oppressing anyone. I’m just governing my own self. And I seem to be very upset by this to the point where they’ve gotten off Twitter because I’m not there anymore after having like, I don’t know, God said, God knows what whatever is on Twitter is so bad that everyone I know and that dog has texted me to check if I’m okay. I haven’t read anything though because I deleted it off my phone and all my devices, so I’m thankfully none the wiser. But normally when that many people check on you it’s pretty bad. Anyway. Anyway, they’ve left fucking Twitter and come to Instagram and created accounts solely to do this and have then followed me. Because you can only comment on my Instagram if you follow me to prevent shit like this. So they followed me to be able to send me nasty comments and DMs. That tell me, horrible abusive things, really scary things. And then a lot of them have gone out of their way to do all this, just to tell me they don’t care that I’ve left Twitter. I think you do care. I think you care quite a lot. I feel very upset. I think you miss me, which is really weird. And I think I need to get a fucking job and a life and a cuddle and a therapist if possible. Because why the fuck are you a grown adult with hair on your balls coming to another platform and going through all that trouble to find someone who clearly must know who they are because you’ve typed in their name to find them on another app, and you’ve read about them in the paper and you say, I don’t know who you are. No one cares that you’ve left. You do care and you’re boring me. And that is the worst crime ever. You’re boring me. I left to get away from all of you. Why are you chasing me? I have one theory. Aside from obviously the fucking patriarchy or hatriarchy, as I call them. Aside from this fucking male entitlement, white male entitlement. And this doesn’t say all white men. I know some of you listen to this fucking podcast. I’m not saying all men, but I’m just saying an astonishing amount of tens of thousands. I was on fucking Fox News apparently all day. The media have been shit. They’ve been going out of their way to portray me as crazy. They literally said I was hysterical for my tongue in cheek tweet that had emojis and pictures of my dog. So dumb. Anyway, one of my theories is that I think these people, especially the men involved, don’t like it when someone just decide for themselves. Hmm. I don’t think I want to be here anymore. Actually, I think I’m just going to go because I don’t really feel like it. They want to, like, chase you off the site. They don’t like that. I just left of my own volition. I left with agency. I wasn’t driven off. I was just like, no, thanks. It speaks a lot to rejection, to our to our needs to educate specifically men, especially men, but not only men about rejection and how to take it and consent. These things are all tied up in even these aggressions that happen only on an online space. It’s not just to do with sex and intimacy. Rejection can happen anywhere and they have no, like, ability to handle it. They feel rejected. And somehow oppressed by my just saying no, thank you. I’d like to go somewhere else. Thanks. I think that we’re so thirsty for bullying and control that we have to have everything on our terms. We hate, especially independent women who makes decisions for themselves. Honestly, it felt like a weird break up. Where you’re like, I think this person might be a bit toxic and then you leave and then they fully show you how toxic they are and then spend days making you feel the most sure you’ve ever felt about a decision in your entire life anyway. Sorry to bore you, but my God, this is a very bad sign of how things are going. Yeah, it just. It concerns me and. Don’t feel bad if you want to leave any space or any room or any family or any marriage. You’re not bad. You’re not weak. You’re very strong for having the courage to do what society has never taught you to do, which is to do what’s best for you. To be autonomous, to be self preserving. We’ve been taught selfishness is so bad. It’s not. Obviously in extremes it might be, but self-preservation is vital to longevity, to sustainability, to survival, and so protects your mental health at all costs. Don’t allow yourself to be made to feel like only you want to go and live in an echo chamber in a bubble. You know what? Maybe we all could do with a bit of bubble. Maybe we could all do the bit of echo chamber for a bit. Maybe that’s what I was doing. I was choosing echo chamber so that I would be able to take a few less meds and I would be able to have a bit more fun and I would be able to feel more present in my life rather than haunted by other people’s trauma that they inflict upon me online. It’s okay to step away and bubble yourself. It’s been a really fucking ridiculous few years and life for many of us. It’s okay. I don’t know why they need an audience so badly. Freedom to speak, freedom to listen or not. Everyone should be happy with this. Anyway, speaking of mental health, I’d like to talk to you about my guest today. She’s a very, very, very, very hot comedian. And by that, I’m not just talking about how beautiful she is. I mean, she is one of the most in-demand comics in the world right now, having such a fast rise, terrifyingly young, only in her just like late twenties, barely. And she’s already got two Netflix specials out and a huge touring career and was so wonderfully open about something that she kind of I don’t like the term comes out about but she she opens up about being bipolar in her most recent Netflix special and I haven’t had anyone really talk about that on this podcast before. And there aren’t many people who talk about it publicly. And I think she’s super cool for talking about it in a way that is very only via her own personal experience. She’s not professing to be an expert of this, even though I keep asking her questions that now I realize I need to go to interview an actual doctor. So I am looking for one. Don’t worry, just in case you’re hearing this and being concerned, I’m going to talk to some clinicians next about actual diagnosis of mental health and and what these things mean and how they manifest. But anyway, it’s very interesting to also hear these stories from the people who actually struggle with them and survive through them and thrive through them. That’s what I think is so empowering about these episodes. And Taylor especially has really, really via medication and therapy and life decisions, has really gotten a grip on her life. She’s so peaceful that it was it was like staggering how at peace and how calm and chill she is. And she’s a huge advocate for medication and talks about that brilliantly. And the journey to learning how to embrace medication because it is not easy for everyone. She talks about processing her own stigma against bipolar, which I think is another really important thing to talk about. Many of us don’t even go to get diagnosed if we think we might have something like that because it’s been so heavily stigmatized in our society. We also talk about her relationship with food and discovering intuitive eating. She’s such an open book and just makes you feel very unjudged while she’s talking. Even if you feel seen, you never feel attacked. And I’m extremely silly in this episode. She’s not. She’s fantastic. I’m stupid. That’s fine. But I hope you enjoy it. And I’d love to know if it resonated with you. And I’m sorry this intro has been so long. I just had a lot of fucking feelings and I appreciate you listening and I appreciate how great you are and how, regardless of whether you’re texting me something happy or sad or angry, you are constructive and thoughtful and your behavior makes sense, which is the exact opposite of what I’ve heard this week from people who, instead of messaging me, could just start Googling therapy, you know what I mean? Or helping other people. My guest today is the excellent Taylor Tomlinson. Go check out all her specials, find her on social media, follow her and love her as much as the rest of us do. Taylor Tomlinson, welcome to I Weigh. How are you?

Taylor [00:11:43] Good. How are you?

Jameela [00:11:45] I’m great. It’s so nice to have you here. I have been looking at your face all weekend, rewatching your specials, and you’re YouTube.

Taylor [00:11:51] Very sorry.

Jameela [00:11:52] It’s great. I feel like a proper Internet creep and it’s lovely and surreal to have you here. How are you? How’s. How’s life going?

Taylor [00:12:03] It’s going pretty well. Honestly, I mean, it’s always funny when people ask you that and you can tell they genuinely care and want to hear a longer answer than good.

Jameela [00:12:11] I don’t care. Don’t worry.

Taylor [00:12:13] Oh good. Oh, thank God. All right.

Jameela [00:12:14] Just being polite.

Taylor [00:12:15] Awesome. How are you?

Jameela [00:12:17] I’m also doing amazing. Yeah, I’m doing amazing. Thank you. I really I’m really excited to have you on the podcast because I don’t think I’ve seen someone talk about mental health quite the way that you do. And you’ve have a wonderful way of communicating and you’re incredibly accessible and funny. But it really spoke to me and a lot of my friends, the way in which you communicate some massive issues that people go through, young people go through, but in particular, I think women and so I do thank you for being here. I imagine how open you’ve been in your most recent special. Must have provoked quite a big reaction from people in which you kind of really delve into your mental health.

Taylor [00:12:58] Yeah. I mean, it’s been. It’s been really cool to get messages from people who got a similar diagnosis. I talk about being diagnosed with Bipolar two in my special and anxiety and depression and all that stuff and getting on medication and how long that took and what a process of trial and error it is and before the special came out, I was actually really, really nervous at the last minute when it was edited and done when I was like, Oh, maybe my therapist was right and I should have sat on this information a little bit longer because, you know, I it had only it had been less than a year that I had had that information about myself. And initially when I got that diagnosis, I was like, Well, I’m not going to talk about this. I’m not going to tell anybody maybe.

Jameela [00:13:48]  Because of the stigma, because you wouldn’t get hired or.

Taylor [00:13:53] Yeah yeah yeah. And I, I, I grew up very religious and repressed and all that. And even getting on antidepressants or even saying that you were depressed or anxious, there was a lot of shame around that growing up because it was like, well, you’re clearly not a good enough Christian. Like that’s really the problem because God is.

Jameela [00:14:11] You should pray it away.

Taylor [00:14:12] You should pray it away. Like God is the source of. You know, or the God is the solution was essentially what I grew up with is that if you are not connected to God in the right way and that’s why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling. And then beyond that, you’re not taking care of yourself. There was also that in my house where like my parents were very sort of body shamey and like. If you were depressed, it’s because you weren’t going outside and working out enough and eating correctly and you didn’t look right. And so there was a lot of reasons why it was so hard for me to even go to a therapist in my early twenties and talk to somebody about getting on something. Because the way I was raised was if you got on an antidepressant, you were weak and and immoral and bad. So that had been difficult. And I had spent years trying to get on something that worked. And when I got on a mood stabilizer when I was 25, right before I filmed my first special Quarter Life Crisis, actually, I was like, Oh, this changed everything for me. Like I, I wasn’t even on the correct dosage yet and I was like, this is such a game changer. But about, I guess I just it would have been two years later. Yeah, two years later, I had what my therapist realized was a hypomanic episode.

Jameela [00:15:43] Can you explain what that is?

Taylor [00:15:44] It’s less severe than a manic episode, which can lead to, like, hospitalization and and all kinds of things. But hypomania is it’s that cycle when you’re bipolar of like mania and depression. So a hypomanic episode is like basically mania is like you feel incredible. You feel amazing. You have all these grandiose feelings about yourself and and it’s honestly awesome. And you don’t sleep much and you don’t feel like you need to sleep and you feel motivated and attractive and you make all these huge decisions.

Jameela [00:16:19] Sounds like the Oscars.

Taylor [00:16:19] Yeah. And you make all these huge decisions. And sometimes they’re really you’re very impulsive.

Jameela [00:16:26] Right.

Taylor [00:16:28] And then, you know, however long that lasts, whether it be, you know, five days or a few weeks or a month, it will usually end in like a depressive episode after that, which is the very opposite, which is just, you know, a few weeks of being so depressed you feel like you can’t do anything. You cancel everything and feeling suicidal at worst, which I have felt at points and it was a cycle that I didn’t realize I had been repeating over the years and I just didn’t know. I just thought I was like really motivated. And look at this like bursts of energy I have because you feel like invincible.

Jameela [00:17:08] Just girl bossing.

Taylor [00:17:09] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Girlbossing, you know, like I’m just killing it right now. And you think everything I used to think my dreams were telling me things. I thought my dreams told the future like, you know, and then it would crash and it would be terrible. And it’s very disorienting because you just feel like you’re these two different people and you’re just kind of hiding this depressive version of yourself. And you can be like, so amazing during these periods of energy that it’ll make up for these points when you’re really, really sad and, you know, in your mind unbearable to be around. So my therapist had sort of said I had this week of making a lot of huge decisions and doing a lot of things that were a little bit like, Hey, maybe cool it for a sec. And she was like, It sounds like you had some, some hypomania. And I was like, What? She was like, Well, that usually that has to last like four days or longer. And I was like, Oh, that was longer than four days. That was like a week and a half. And she goes, Oh, then we should talk to your psychiatrist, who she also knows and speaks to. And they were they worked together on, on me, I suppose, and they they talked me through it and also my, my therapist I started seeing during COVID. So she had never seen me not on mood stabilizers. So all we really did after that episode is I think we upped my dosage, we might have doubled it to a point now where I feel great and I had already felt so much better before that, but I just needed I just need to up it. And I remember my psychiatrist said that because the first phone conversation I had with her about it, I was like, I think I was in Philly and I was driving around, I was in some city and I was just crying. And she was like, It’s just information about you. It’s not this judgment on your character who you are, and it doesn’t mean everything’s been your fault or and it doesn’t mean that everyone has been right about you or something. Like she goes, It’s just information about you that helps you understand how to take care of yourself. Like I say in the special which I completely stole from her and that was really helpful for me. But I was really surprised that I felt bad about it because I have friends and people in my life who have been diagnosed with bipolar and I never felt judgmental of them or thought anything beyond like, Oh, that’s great that you figured that out about yourself.

Jameela [00:19:36] Yeah. We look at it as like anything in the body being diagnosed. It’s like, Oh, great. You found out about that? Yeah.

Taylor [00:19:42] Exactly. And I thought I thought, wow, I’m I really must have some internalized shame and judgment about it if I feel so bad about it. Me and myself. And I think that’s why I ultimately started talking about it on stage a few months later, because I was like, I bet other people feel like this and it’s sort of unfair that we do and we shouldn’t so.

Jameela [00:20:02] Yeah, and the double standard, I mean, it’s prevalent and I think something that maybe especially women, but not only women deal with because we are socialized to hate ourselves for the profit of capitalism. But you know, we see it a lot with body image. You know, we don’t even blink other women’s bodies. We don’t even take in other women’s bodies on the beach or in a on a dance floor in the supermarket. But for ourselves, we have these completely alternative beauty standards. And our friends, the people we love, we just love their faces, love the way they look. We have no criticism, but yet we hold ourselves to these impossible standards and we see all these these different I’m going to say the word flaws in quote unquote, quote unquote. But it’s such a classic part of our nature, the hypocrisy of what is allowed for us versus other people.

Taylor [00:20:50] Yeah, it is so strange and it’s, it’s similar to the body image thing in that like I, I have a joke about it in the special as well as I say like, am I hot and or talented enough to have this essentially like to have this thing? Am I amazing enough? Because especially with mental illness, if you’re somebody who’s mentally ill, like it’s okay if you’re a celebrity, it’s okay if you’re a genius, it’s okay if you’re this and that and the other thing, then it’s like interesting about you, but I didn’t feel like any of those things. And so I was like, do I have to like be super to do I have to be smarter or more talented because I have what I’m seeing is this like draw back or this this red flag about myself. I didn’t want to keep perpetuating that by hiding it, which is how I felt.

Jameela [00:21:38] I enjoyed in your special when you talked about, you know, Selena Gomez, when you’re talking about being hot or powerful enough to be diagnosed publicly with bipolar, I think is amazing that she came out and spoke about that because it has been like massively destigmatizing move for something that I think a lot of people anxiety has become much more hyper normalized depression’s become much more hyper normalized. These are things that we say without even being officially diagnosed like this is something that we feel very comfortable pathologizing ourselves and other people with. But when it comes to bipolar, it’s definitely more of a mystery to a lot of people. I, for example, I’m familiar with many different psychological diagnoses, but I don’t know a lot about bipolar. I would love, if you don’t mind me to, because you mentioned the kind of hypomania. Is that a part of bipolar or is that all of what bipolar is? I would love for you to just explain a little bit more about bipolar to me, if you don’t mind. As a doctor of psychology and psychiatry yeah

Taylor [00:22:32] No that’s. There’s so there’s bipolar one and there’s bipolar two. And I believe bipolar one is is a bit more intense and more often leads to like hospitalization in that manic phase. Yeah, because I think it also it looks different for everyone. And the way I’ve described it is the best way I can describe it. But it’s obviously just very intense emotions and it’s hard to regulate those emotions. And it’s in those manic states, in those depressive states, it’s you have such strong feelings. It feels so true. And they’re just, you know, they’re just not. It’s so it’s. It makes it very hard to trust yourself.

Jameela [00:23:25] Yeah, I can imagine.

Taylor [00:23:26] When you are when you are going between those two deeply emotional states and, you know, it’s not that those are the only two emotional states that you exist in. You know, you go for months and you’re pretty stable. And then you have one of these episodes. And I, I had to go back through my twenties, essentially, and look at decisions I’d made and like relationships I’d ended, moves I had made even like moments in my career that I took big swings or pushed through a difficult situation and go, Oh, I was probably dealing with some hypomania there, and oh, that’s why I had that horrible depressive period afterward, and that’s why I made those decisions that way, and that’s why I was acting that way. And that’s why in that moment, you know, making that decision felt so euphoric.

Jameela [00:24:15] But some of those decisions, I’m sure, have also just been like bravery and self-belief. And like deciding to go into a career that is not known for being stable or easy for women like stand up comedy, like there have been some amazing things. And whether those decisions are made from a place of hypomania or just your own gut instinct or self-belief, I’m really glad that you made them just to further de-stigmatize that process. Uh, I really loved what one of your friends said. I’m your. I don’t want to fuck it up and paraphrase it, but regarding a middle name.

Taylor [00:24:48] Oh, yeah. My friend Dustin, who who opens for me and is introducing me on that special, said, Yeah, your mental illness was like your middle name. I didn’t know what it was, but I knew that you had one, which I thought was so funny.

Jameela [00:25:02] I love that. I loved that so much that I spat my coffee out all over myself and want to use it that anyone ever tells me their mental health condition.

Taylor [00:25:12] Oh, it’s so good. It was the perfect thing for him to say. I mean, obviously before that he said a bunch of lovely, supportive things and then made that joke and I was like, Can I please use that? That’s so, so funny.

Jameela [00:25:23] It’s so funny and so. Okay, so you knew for a year before you recorded the special and. Do you have any peers that you knew who was, you know, going through something similar with something like bipolar? I mean, there is just so much ignorance around it. And there is because it’s fills it feels new, even though it totally isn’t. I think that some people feel more afraid of that diagnosis, for example, you and your own reticence to come out and talk about it.

Taylor [00:25:54] I was nervous about putting it out there, but I was like, This isn’t for people who don’t care. This is for people who are dealing with themselves or have someone they love is dealing with it. I had a girl message me that she used the special to tell her partner that she was bipolar and say like, this is, you know, somebody who has it and they’re making jokes about it. And by the way, I am, too. And that can be so scary telling a partner that you’re dealing with any sort of mental health struggle because. If they haven’t dealt with something like that, then they don’t understand and there’s a possibility that they might never understand. And there’s a lot of room for cruelty. But whether that’s intentional or unintentional, so it is very risky to talk about and tell people. But if if we just keep talking about it, then more people will hear about it.

Jameela [00:26:51] I’m significantly older than you. And so, like, I remember depression being something that no one would ever admit to. Ever. A mere decade ago. And now it’s something that is almost like fucking weird if you don’t have it. Especially the last two years. Is like oh you’re alright, are you? The fuck is wrong with her?

Taylor [00:27:10] I know. I know.

Jameela [00:27:11] Yeah. What’s her deal? Liar. Like, it’s just, you know. So it’s. It’s funny how that has kind of shifted. And I think the and I think that because of people like you, because of people like Selena Gomez, your peer. I think that you are, you know.

Taylor [00:27:25] Exactly. You asked about my peers. Selena.

Jameela [00:27:25] Yeah, exactly. I think that I hope that that will become more normalized. But also like speaking about that kind of like talking to your, you know, lover or talking to your family about it, worrying about what they’re going to think so often with something like bipolar or, you know, manic depression or any of these things, kind of, as your friend alluded to. It’s often a relief. I want you to know that it’s often a relief to kind of God. I don’t know why name the puppy came into my head. That’s very upsetting. Let’s think of another way to say that that isn’t so odd and dehumanizing, but to name it, let’s just say that. Name it. You know, they are aware of your behavior and actually maybe then it feels less personal. You know, I’ve spoken on this broadcast before about the fact that, you know, I have I struggle with my mental health a lot and suicidal ideation and stuff. And and I kind of made a decision about nine years ago to just start telling everyone how I feel all the time. And to the point like, so honestly, where I will like walk into the house. I live with a bunch of roommates still into my mid-thirties and they’ll be like, How are you? And I’m like, I really want to punch like one of you in the face. So it is better to not speak to me for a awhile to leave me alone. It’s not personal. And it was brilliant and it kind of completely transformed our relationship with each other, because I also encourage them to be as radically honest with me as well of just like, not today, not in the fucking mood today. I’m having a mental health day. And it meant that we no longer took each other’s behavior personally. And I think that that can happen when you come to a loved one and explain that there’s actually a pathology behind this and it’s not personal. And maybe there are things you’re doing that are exacerbating it or antagonizing it. But it’s not because of you or it’s not because we aren’t compatible. It’s because I was going undiagnosed, untreated, unsupported with this condition. I think it’s actually quite hopeful when someone can actually as with again with like any kind of illness, someone had stomach ache for a year and it’s been debilitating and they can’t go out eat and they feel they’re low on energy and the grumpy and this that and the other. You finally find out, oh, it was it was this thing and now I’m going to get help. Overwhelmingly, I think you’ll find that unless you’re with a total fucking prick. It is a comforting, positive thing.

Taylor [00:29:43] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think I think in the last few years, I’ve gotten very good at just saying, hey, I’m feeling this way. I know it’s coming from over here. And it’s the result of X, Y and Z. It’s not about you at all. Like you and I are fine. I just need to go deal with this. Usually I need to take a walk. Usually I need to be by myself for a minute. But that is such a simple solution and can avoid so many fights and so much strife is just to say to your partner, whatever you’re dealing with. I am not, as you said, in the fucking mood right now, and it’s not you. It is entirely me and my own, my own headspace.

Jameela [00:30:28] Must be really hard to do though, when you’re actually in the middle of one of the manias. To actually identify yourself that it isn’t that person. Does it feel like it is that person in the moment or is there a clarity?

Taylor [00:30:40] I think it did feel like the other. It felt like more than another person. It felt like everything because again, mania feels pretty great, but also very stressful and hard on your body and your. Sort of irritable and energetic and it’s hard to explain.

Jameela [00:30:58] I have become very. In a way that I never have before. In the last couple of years, I’ve become kind of obsessed with how my brain is actually literally working. I found out from someone and I, you know, I can’t verify this is 100% true from like studies. But I found out from a doctor that creative people there is like a an overlap with them producing less kind of the happy chemicals like dopamine. And we don’t know exactly why that is, but there is a link. And then if you think to how many artists, you know who are like very, very unhappy or like struggle massively with their mental health, more so than maybe some of their friends who aren’t doing that with their lives. You wonder if or maybe it’s not just because this is also a thankless, toxic, scary, insecure job, but also because there is something going on chemically in our brain.

Taylor [00:31:48] Yeah, I did. When I first started seeing my psychiatrist, I did do the genetic testing thing where she goes, If you want to do this, we can.

Jameela [00:31:55] Oh, what’s that?

Taylor [00:31:57] I believe it was like a saliva thing. It was a while ago at this point, but we did like genetic testing and came back and she was like, Yeah, it does show that your brain. Has a little bit more difficulty producing serotonin, which was very helpful for me to hear. So I was like, Oh, good. It’s like a. It’s like a it’s a thing I can look at in a test tube or something. Not me, someone with a degree. But it was very comforting to me when we’re talking about naming it and identifying it. It was it was a relief, I guess, to hear that I wasn’t just I don’t even know you feel like you’re making it up or something again when you have all that internalized shame about it. And you grew up in a certain environment, and have certain beliefs about it.

Jameela [00:32:43] Oh that’s weird because the medical industry doesn’t gaslight women about their mental health, make them feel hysterical. And like everything is just stress. Yeah, they’re normally amazing. And so now that you’ve been on the kind of right, uh, dosage of mood stabilizers, uh, do you still continue to have episodes, may I ask, or has it been kind of level?

Taylor [00:33:05] It’s been pretty level. I mean, we were. We were adjusting it.

Jameela [00:33:09] That’s amazing.

Taylor [00:33:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re adjusting it. But yeah. No, I feel. I feel. Pretty, pretty stable and good. And it’s funny, I was I was talking to my therapist about it before the special came out, actually, where I was like, this feels like a time where I would have been experiencing mania and I’m not or I would have been, you know, crashing into this depressive episode. And I was weirdly sad about it. I was like, I’m just stressed, but I don’t get this boost of energy that I know ultimately ends in a depressive crash, but that that mania is so I missed that so much. And that propelled me through so much and made me feel so amazing about myself. And so now it’s almost like this weird it’s like this weird reintroduction to myself of, like, okay, you’re just going to feel more in the middle and not have those extreme highs and those extreme lows, which is. Ultimately great and such a relief, but also weirdly a little sad for me personally.

Jameela [00:34:26] I can understand that. I mean, that’s a side of yourself that you’ve known. And also, like some people can feel a bit muted on medication and it’s still better than the alternative. But, you know, like there’s various different kind of side effects that we can have with these magical pills that take away like the dangerous or like very extreme sides of our mental health issues. I think that’s very normal, and I think it’s really good to be able to talk about that and it’ll take a while for you to. It’s fairly new in your life, considering how long you’ve been alive and how long you’ve been dealing with the other kind of side of yourself and living as the other person. Or the other version of you know, of your life. It;s going to take a while. You know, it’s natural for there to be a mourning period. I know of a lot of people in this industry who resisted medication for the longest time, who resisted even going to fucking therapy for the longest time because they were worried about losing that spark or spontaneous or unpredictable or extreme side of themselves in their imagination. And almost all of them have finally come to their fucking senses and realized that no creativity, no awards, no Netflix special, etc. is woth the highs and the lows. And you know, we’ve also lost quite a few comedians to very sad things in the last couple of years. I think that’s also been kind of a wake up call within the comedian community that nothing is worth that kind of pain, no legacy. And and, you know, through it all, you were able to write this fucking amazing show that has been so critically well-received and so beloved. And so it’s wonderful to have someone who is right at the forefront now. Like, you know, you’re one of the kind of big rising stars in comedy for you to talk about this, but also talk about medication, talk about accepting care is massively important because specifically creative people and writers feel very afraid. Did you have any of that reticence yourself.

Taylor [00:36:26] That I was going to lose that creativity?

Jameela [00:36:28] Yeah, that spark.

Taylor [00:36:30] You know, I had had friends who felt that way. When we were younger. And I remember before I thought I needed antidepressants. I was like, Well, this person needs some, and how could they not want to stay on them when it’s obviously so much better and they’re so much more stable and they so much more even and they won’t have these lows. And it didn’t quite make sense to me. And then once I came to terms with the fact that I was one of those people who needed to be on something, and again, the trial and error of it, because the first thing you take doesn’t necessarily work. And I’ve taken things that made me sleep for long periods of time and made me really groggy. And I was taking something to sleep at night for a while. That made me sleep for a really long time and honestly did help even me out throughout the day. But it also made me very groggy and it did make me feel dampened a bit in a way that I didn’t like. And. There’s there are so many options out there, it doesn’t mean that you have to stay on something that makes you feel. Like you just have a wet blanket over you all the time because then you’re not making impulsive, destructive choices. Like that’s why it’s so important to find a mental health professional or a doctor who a doctor who will help you through that period of of.

Jameela [00:37:55] You’ve learned to advocate for yourself, especially women, so that people can’t just treat you like you’re being fussy. You should always, always expect to feel as comfortable as possible.

Taylor [00:38:05] Oh, that was the most helpful thing for me was when friends of mine had gone through it and when I was struggling and going, Oh, I’m just not going to do this anymore. This didn’t work. This made me feel sick. This made me feel anxious. This was terrible. And they were like, I know this sucks, but when I found the right thing, it changed my life and so just don’t give up on it. So I think that’s really important for for people to hear if they are struggling through it, because even if you want to get help, if you get put on something that gives you these horrible side effects, it is very easy to just want to not mess with it. Like the first time I saw my psychiatrist, I didn’t go back for like nine months and it had things had to get really bad. I had to hit rock bottom for me to go I will do literally anything for me to go back to her, because when the first two things didn’t work, I was like, Well, fuck this.

Jameela [00:39:01] Mm hmm. No, I think that’s really cool. And so you talk in the special also about emotional eating, which very much so spoke to me. I’ve mentioned on this podcast before that I would sometimes eat until the only way I could breathe was if I was sitting on all fours like a dog because my my windpipe was just pressed against. I was literally like pushing feelings and sadness down with sort of whatever the gluten free equivalent of a big mac is. And just bags, bags of Haribo and bags of kettle chips. I just shoved like not even tasting the food to enjoy it, just like shoveling it down and just.

Taylor [00:39:42] Trying to feel a different way.

Jameela [00:39:44] Just try to feel anything honestly like a distraction, even if it’s just like, Oh God, I really need to fart. It’s so much better than oh God I feel really sad. But was that tied to that. Like, has that kind of gone away with the mood stabilizer? Is that like a whole separate thing from the fact that you mentioned earlier? You had like you have a bit of a fat shaming family?

Taylor [00:40:02] Oh, yeah. I think when I was a kid up until, like, college, I really struggled with all that I had. I of like binge eating and, you know, restricting and like, don’t eat all day and you eat everything, like, all that stuff. And I’ve certainly had.

Jameela [00:40:21] A classic.

Taylor [00:40:21] A classic, you know, and then like in my early twenties, I remember my younger sister was like, I think you’re orthorexia at this point. Like, all I was doing was listening to like nutrition podcasts and like audiobooks and just like, all day, every day, like.

Jameela [00:40:36] Only following Goop.

Taylor [00:40:36] Talk about yeah, doing like the Whole30, but for like four months, you know, like, just.

Jameela [00:40:42] Oh my God, the whole 120 so intense.

Taylor [00:40:46] Which like I think the creators of Whole30 don’t even want you to do. I’m just like, No, I’ll just do this forever and just becoming very obsessive about it and, like, going to the gym after shows at, like, midnight and. You know, and really and not not looking that much different. It’s like a fluctuation of like 5 to 10 pounds. And I had I had lost a considerable amount of weight after high school. Just by nature of like being really busy, I think, and not having the time to binge like I was when I was younger. Emotionally like I did when I was younger.

Jameela [00:41:26] So really expensive.

Taylor [00:41:28] Yeah.

Jameela [00:41:29] I’m about to spend so much money because also I did, and this makes me sound like such a fucking wanker. But I did it on, like, organic food. So I. I spent an insane amount of money on binge eating. Like, who the fuck?

Taylor [00:41:41] Bougey bingeing.

Jameela [00:41:42] Bougey bingeing is the worst. I was. I was bingeing on food from like whole foods. Like, I couldn’t believe. Like, gluten free, fucking organic. The worst. Honestly, like, I’m a meme at this point. I am.

Taylor [00:41:57] Just dried mango.

Jameela [00:41:57] Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much lentil soup. Absolutely appalling.

Taylor [00:42:06] That’s so funny.

Jameela [00:42:07] The idea that I was like, I’m going to eat to this point of like, well, my stomach could literally burst, but I just don’t want any chemicals. This attention I have towards my health and one aspect and completely letting my mental health just fry, um, bonkers. I don’t think I’ve ever admitted that out loud.

Taylor [00:42:28] Oh really?

Jameela [00:42:28] Yeah.

Taylor [00:42:30] Oh, my gosh. I’m honored. Yeah, I definitely had that period of, like, just Pinterest boarding abs for the longest time and going like, Well, this is what I have to look like and I can get there. And I, you know, what I did is I read Intuitive Eating when I was like, I don’t know, I must have been 22, maybe 23 when I read Intuitive Eating that like really changed things for me. And I, I can’t believe that I’m doing that because it is a book. It is a book that’s just the whole book is like, just listen to your body and just what feels good. What makes you feel good. And usually it’s healthy food and just do that and everybody’s different and you’re fine. And that helped me, I think, get to a place of like trusting myself and listening to my body because I really felt messed up. I didn’t know when I was hungry, when I was just sad, like if I was trying not to be hungry because I felt bad about myself. Like, I just I couldn’t tell. I just felt really weird and messed up and after I read that book it was really helpful, and I stopped weighing myself obsessively. And I don’t even have no idea how much I weigh.

Jameela [00:43:37] That’s fantastic. I mean that’s literally you’re on the right fucking podcast then. That’s, that’s very up our, up our alley. How has this industry been for all of that stuff regarding body image and shame. It’s normally very good.

Taylor [00:43:51] Oh horrible. Absolutely terrible. I’ve I have started I started telling my management team because I’m on this theater tour now that’s almost done that I’m so grateful to be on. But I, they will have photographers and it’s not just at these theater shows, but theaters have like in-house photographers usually and even like shows in LA now.

Jameela [00:44:14] The ones that stand right underneath you.

Taylor [00:44:16] Yes. The best possible angle.

Jameela [00:44:17] And just take pictures underneath your chin. Yeah yeah go on.

Taylor [00:44:21] Yes. And so you have that going on, you’re doing photos I mean you know much more than I know these photoshoots you’re doing to promote things and, and every show I do in L.A., whether it’s at the Improv or the Store, there’s a photographer there taking photos that they’re going to put on Instagram, and you have no control over that. And I just started saying, like, Hey, can you actually request there’s no photographer at my shows? So I don’t have to be thinking about that on stage because I will get these. I got one this morning from Las Vegas. These folders of 200 pictures of me that are candids. Like just performing and doing weird faces and like again from the worst possible angle. And I’m like, I have no idea what I actually look like. And I think everyone feels that way with social media now, it’s not just people in entertainment, like you have no idea what you truly look like because we should not be looking at this many photos of ourselves.

Jameela [00:45:20] And also the idea of worst angle. Best angle, all of that shit comes from the fact that there’s any like normally one angle. It’s not quite the MySpace angle anymore. We’ve worked out, stop doing that because it’s insane. But, you know, like, it’s everything so filtered, everything’s so digitally altered, you know, my my own friends who follow I Weigh and they, you know, they care about my work and stuff. Like I watch them digitally alter their faces to beyond the point of recognition and they’re famous and they just put those pictures out there. And I, I, and I don’t say that from a place of judgment. I’m just like, Oh, God, I can see that you’re in pain. That’s why you’re doing that. And it’s because people are cruel and awful on the Internet, but also that then further not only like distorts your view of yourself, and then when you see a candid of yourself, you’re like, Oh, we’re repulsed, even though that’s just what we look like from that angle maybe. Or whatever, and who gives a shit, but it distorts everyone else’s as well of what they’re supposed to look like. And just it just fucks all of us. Like I go on and on and literally on and on and on and on. And I’m so sorry about filters because they they’ve absolutely devastated everyone I know. Everyone’s getting the same exact surgery, you know what I mean, like everyone’s getting the tiny Voldemort nose where there’s no nose there anymore. Like we’ve pretty much erase the woman nose according to the filter.

Taylor [00:46:43] I haven’t even thought about the nose thing. I don’t even and you know, again, like you said, you don’t you don’t think about other people’s bodies that much. And then somebody says, I have these lines in my forehead and I hate them. And then you go, I even think about lines in your forehead. And then you start thinking about lines in your forehead and you’re like, Was I supposed to be thinking about the lines in my forehead? Oh, my God. Like I was talk to

Jameela [00:47:06] I hope you’re thinking about your earlobes and your elbows as well.

Taylor [00:47:07] Oh, my God.

Jameela [00:47:08] Also your armpit like, I really don’t want to like I don’t want to see any skin in your armpit. I will be very dissappointed if there’s any excess skin. Also, like I really hope your earlobes are standard size because that’s really important for women to worry about. Don’t worry about getting attacked on your way home. Worry about your fucking earlobes. Okay, everyone?

Taylor [00:47:29] Yeah. I was talking to the woman who does my makeup a lot of the time, and I was like, Is everybody just getting work done? And she was like, Yeah, literally everybody. She was like, We cover up scars along the hairline all day. And I’m like, Oh my God. Like, am I just so naive that I thought everybody out here was just, like, better looking than everyone else?

Jameela [00:47:51] I loved it when ten years ago. I think it was something like that. Eight years ago. Chrissy Teigen just responded somewhat in a quote tweet where she said someone was like, Oh, I love you Chrissy Teigen you’re so beautiful and I want to look like you. And she was like, Well, I had my nose, my chin and this, that and the other done. So that’s what I did. If you want my cheat sheet, basically.

Taylor [00:48:08] Wow.

Jameela [00:48:09] And I was like how refreshing. How refreshing to explain. You did the painful, expensive, difficult thing. And that’s why you now look the way that you do so that you don’t make people just feel inherently like shit.

Taylor [00:48:19] Yeah.

Jameela [00:48:27] And so so generally you’ve come to a place of peace, you would say, in your life. I mean, you seem unbelievably serene. You look like an angel. You sound like an angel. I’m feeling very jealous of your serenity right now.

Taylor [00:48:43] Oh my gosh, that’s so nice. It’s so funny. I was listening to an episode of your podcast this morning because I’m. I got straight A’s in high school, and I live my life that way, fully prepared. And I was thinking that about you and your intro. I’m like, oh, my gosh, she sounds so calm. And like, it was like it was making me calm just listening to you speak. So I’m like, maybe that’s part of it. Yeah, I do think that I am in a pretty good place. Like this is sort of a sad thing to say maybe. But I was talking to a friend recently where I said, I don’t remember the last time I cried and they were like, Is that okay? I’m like, I just I used to cry all the time. So this is like, I mean, I should get a chalkboard that says Days without incident or something. Like, I, I just feel like. I feel like I’m in a good spot where I’m happy with my friendships and my career and I’m maybe need a little bit more time off. I’m like taking a month off once this tour is over.

Jameela [00:49:43] Obviously that was a lie because that’s never going to happen. You say it’s going to happen.

Taylor [00:49:48] Im going to take a month off from touring. There’s going to be other things that I have to do, but I feel pretty good, honestly. And it’s I hope to get to a place where I don’t sound surprised when I say that even my therapist, my therapist last week was like, she’s like, you seem like you’re good. Like you seem. And I was like, okay, well, we don’t have to sound so surprised about it, but.

Jameela [00:50:12] I also love the way that you put it in the special way you talk about like, you know, do I have a low sex drive now that I’m on meds do I just have higher standards? That was one of my favorite lines I’ve ever heard about someone getting mental health treatment. I think that was so fantastic and a lovely and refreshing way to look at that, because I think I think you might be on to something there. I think that might be what’s happening. Obviously, there are like actual libido increases and decreases, etc., but, maybe some of that is raised self-esteem. I’ve never looked at it that way and now I can never unhear that.

Taylor [00:50:47] Well that is part of like mania. You’re more sexual, or at least in my case, I was. So I think that was certainly part of it. And then also when I felt bad about myself, I think I was overcompensating. I don’t really do the casual dating casual sex thing, but like in relationships, if I feel bad about myself. I will probably initiate sex more in a way that I’m not expecting to get anything out of it where I’ll just like like I’m just going to take care of you and I don’t need anything. And actually, this is me proving how great I am because I’m so selfless. And I will do this and be this person and go into this sexual mode, even if I am not wanting to finish myself or whatever like. So I think all of that is wrapped up in that that line that.

Jameela [00:51:42] You become more of a self-serving lover.

Taylor [00:51:45] Yeah. I mean, I’ve never been somebody who I’ve never faked it or anything like that. And I, I’ve always been pretty like, hey, this should be pretty equal. But I think when I am in a I think when I’m in a low self-esteem place. For me personally in a relationship, sometimes I can weirdly be more sexual as a way to prove my worth.

Jameela [00:52:15] I think a lot of people identify, a lot of people can identify with that, not me, because I get too full from all the eating that I do. That’s the last thing I want to know is that when you get a diagnosis like that and you get the medication, you get the help and support. Does it also make you sort of look around at the people in your circle, like the people, maybe your managers, your agents, your friends? Did you make any kind of big shifts of like, oh, maybe I was around people who weren’t actually that good for me, you know, that maybe you couldn’t spot weren’t that good for you because you were dealing with so much other shit in your head.

Taylor [00:52:45] Yeah. I think. I think for sure. I think it it once you get to a place where you’re good. And you figured out what you need and you have the right medication. I think it does like clarify some things for you and clarify certain relationship dynamics and what triggers that and what is helping you and what is harming you. And certainly with certain people in my family, I was like, you know what? This doesn’t need to be just because somebody in your family, doesn’t mean that they have to be a part of your life if they’re not willing to also get the help they need and it’s it is resulting in behavior that is directly harming you.

Jameela [00:53:33] Yeah I don’t buy into that sort of stuff at all. I’m very like kind of like if we’re going to go with the whole, well, blood is thicker than water, I often always respond with, well, cum is thicker than blood. So if you want to start, you want to start down that road and I’m ready. I’m ready friends. I have absolutely no time for that sort of argument. And I love I love hearing this. This is a wonderful, inspiring serenity success story. And I hope that for anyone out there listening who maybe thinks they may need a diagnosis or is worried for someone else they love who might need a diagnosis or has just been diagnosed, or if someone has just been diagnosed themselves, I hope that this conversation makes you feel less alone and it makes you feel less afraid and more hopeful. And I think especially what you said about knowing that it is trial and error because we are so different, means that this shit sometimes takes time and that’s okay not to give up because you will find the right medication for you provided you have the right mental health care. I would love to ask you finally before you go, the question that I ask every guest and seeing as you are a nerd who did your homework, you will know what I mean when I say Taylor Tomlinson, what do you weigh?

Taylor [00:54:47] I weigh my siblings who I’m very close to. I weigh my friendships that I pour a lot of time and energy into. I weigh my career that I’ve worked very hard for. I weigh the time for myself that I’m getting better at taking. I weigh the empathy I think I have for other people and, and continue to try to have. Um. Yeah.

Jameela [00:55:20] Do you weigh not weighing yourself anymore?

Taylor [00:55:22] I do. I totally weigh not wearing myself. If I could not look in a mirror, I would do that maybe I’ll do that for my month off.

Jameela [00:55:29] 100%. You know, I actually use a tiny nars hand mirror to do my make up.

Taylor [00:55:35] Do you?

Jameela [00:55:35] I do, because I cannot take in the whole face I really struggle, you know, whenever like photoshoots are like. Can we get you looking into a mirror? No, please, God, no. Absolutely not.

Taylor [00:55:45] Do you try not to look in mirrors much.

Jameela [00:55:47] So I slightly cross my eyes when I have to do this photoshoot so I can’t really see myself when I’m looking in the mirror. So if you really zoom in on any mirror shots of me or scenes of me looking in the mirror slightly cross my eyes over so that I can just so that I’m not really looking.

Taylor [00:56:01] That’s amazing.

Jameela [00:56:03] Yeah, no, I can’t do full mirrors. I really struggle with it. And if I do, I it looks I look like one of those cats that’s just seen their reflection for the first time because I go right up close to the mirror, so there’s no space between my face and the mirror. So I can only see the feature that I’m focusing on. And it really looks like I’m trying to get into the mirror or like a 13 year old is trying to make out with the mirror. So it’s just become easier and like less worrying to the general public if I use a little hand mirror. And so for like because I do my own makeup for like Marvel for like TV’s for magazine covers and I do it all with a tiny like two and a half inch mirror. So I just go feature by feature and I wish for the fucking best.

Taylor [00:56:43] Wow, that’s incredible.

Jameela [00:56:46] It’s also. Yes, it’s sad. It’s sad, but it’s it is a good hack.

Taylor [00:56:52] Oh, my God. I love that.

Jameela [00:56:54] So, you know, like, that’s but that’s, you know, that’s where we’re at. That’s what the fucking society did to us. And, uh, and I hope one day I can just look in a fucking mirror like a normal fucking person. And I hope one day I stop saying the word angles and thinking about angles. I miss the clelfie. Do you remember the clelfie? You might be too young. There’s a there was a phase on Facebook. Obviously, this is appalling. But I thought it was really revolutionary, actually, where we have the selfie, then we had the belfie, which was like the selfie, but like from the angle of like where you’re showing off your bottom as well in the pictures, you’re like taking picture of you and your butt. But then came the clelfie where you had to. It was a challenge to get your clitoris and your face in the same picture. So it just from that angle of light down by your clitoris and up to your face, is this just an English thing I’m realizing from your face as much as.

Taylor [00:57:44] I’ve never heard of this?

Jameela [00:57:45] This might be a disgusting English thing.

Taylor [00:57:47] Well, I’m very uncool also, so.

Jameela [00:57:49] Well, no, but I mean, I think if you don’t have a clelfie of you that exists in this world. And, I’m not saying I do for anyone who is looking to hack my phone. But I thought I was like, that’s revolutionary. Actually, that’s feminism way ahead of its time. And I leave you on that note. Just.

Taylor [00:58:07] Wow.

Jameela [00:58:08] Mull over that. Spent some time with your phone, Taylor.

Taylor [00:58:11] Oh. I have the rest of my day planned now.

Jameela [00:58:16] Lots of love. I hope you do actually take that time off and come back anytime. Everyone should go and watch your special. It’s fantastic.

Taylor [00:58:23] Thank you so much.

Jameela [00:58:26] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela, Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything. Check it out. You can get a free month the Stitcher Premium by going to Stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code I Weigh. Lastly over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 18186605543 or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. I weigh my ability to gauge my emotional bandwidth and accepting that I am not an extrovert after years of being pressured to be one. I weigh my ability to help others as a yoga teacher, essential worker and freelance artist, and the incredible amount of work I have put towards my dreams. I weigh the sacred act of making time for self-care, the deep love I’ve gained for my body after overcoming an eight year struggle with an eating disorder. I weigh my dream of traveling the world, loving others unconditionally and healing others the way that I have healed myself. That’s lovely.