EP. 313 — The Number 23

Paul Scheer [00:00:00] This podcast is dropping on February 23rd, 2023. That’s 2/23/23. Two 23s. June Diane Raphael Scheer is 23 digits if you include the hyphen and her husband’s last name. Her birthday is 01/04/1980, which adds up to 23. Jeffrey Character Reebes adds up to 24. But if you misspell it as Jeffrey with one F Character Reebes, it is 23. This podcast is hosted by Tall John Scheer, and if you assign the corresponding number in the alphabet to his name, you get 21, 12, 12, 10, 15, 8, 14, 19, 3, 8, 5, 5, 18. Add those all up you get 69, which if you divide by the number of names, Tall John Scheer, three, you get 23. But did you see the 69? We saw The Number 23. So you know what that means. 

Intro Song [00:01:09] [Intro Music]

Paul Scheer [00:01:20] Hello, people of Earth. Conspiracy theorists unite. Today we are talking about a classic Jim Carrey thriller. The Number 23, came out in 2007. And if you’ve not seen this film, the plot is going to be a little bit tricky to break down, but I’m going to try two weeks in a row. But basically, we are following Walter Sparrow, played by Jim Carrey, who works as a dog catcher who comes to find a book titled The Number. 

June Diane Raphael [00:01:55] I forgot that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:01:56] Oh, yeah. Did you forget this movie starts with him being Ace Ventura, and talking to animals? 

June Diane Raphael [00:02:00] I forgot that. 

Paul Scheer [00:02:04] So this dog catcher comes to find a book called the number 23, which sends him down the rabbit hole of the 23 Enigma, which is a real conspiracy theory. I’m going to play a quick clip to show you exactly how that comes into play. 

Movie Audio [00:02:19] The Titanic sank on the morning of April 15th, 1912. That’s 4151912. 23. The Hiroshima bomb was dropped at 8:15. It was 15 is 23. The Mayans at the end of the world would come in 2012. 20 plus one plus two equals 23. Go ahead. Tell yourself it’s just a number. 

Paul Scheer [00:02:47] And then a larger mystery unravels. Did Jim Carrey’s character actually write the book? How much does his wife know? Is there a larger conspiracy? The answer is yes. As long as you don’t think about any of the answers. To break this all down. I am bringing in my two and three co-hosts, my 23 co-hosts. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:08] What? 

Paul Scheer [00:03:08] Jason Mantzoukas and June Diane Raphael. Wow, wow. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:13] Wow, wow, wow. We’re like, this is like The X-Files. We’re solving cases. This is a mystery. 

June Diane Raphael [00:03:21] The crazy thing is like listening to you say that, though, Paul, Listening to your intro, like your math that you did was way more complicated than the math that is done over and over throughout the course of this movie. It’s literally, most of the dialog is simple math of just like one plus two equals three and three plus two is five and five minus two is three and 32 is 23. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:50] And also like and your last name is Scheer and that name is 14 and 14 plus 9. You know, they’re assigning numerical value to colors, names, words. 

June Diane Raphael [00:04:07] Pink is 23. Red is a little less than because it’s white. And so then now red is pink and pink is 23 and 32 is also 23. 

Paul Scheer [00:04:17] Like 14. But if you add the one in the four, you get five. But if then if you take the five and you look at five, five, it’s two and three together. 23. 

June Diane Raphael [00:04:25] I truly felt insane after this was over. I felt mad. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:04:30] You said something in the intro, Paul, that blew my mind. This is based on real conspiracy theories around the number 23? 

Paul Scheer [00:04:38] Yes. This is a real thing. And by the way, this is such a real thing that Jim Carrey named his production company, J.C. 23, because he is obsessed with the number 23. 

Interview Audio [00:04:50] Why did you decide to do this project? 

Jim Carrey [00:04:52] Well, I was kind of obsessed with the number 23 for years, you know? Yeah, I had a friend who passed it on to me like a virus. And. And it just entered my life big time. It’s everywhere. And even though I was born at 230 in the morning, my daughter’s born at 1211. I mean, it just kept going on and on and on in my life. So I changed the name of my company to J.C. 23, because somebody came up with a book that was about the 23rd song, and he said, Does this have anything to do with the 23 thing, man? 

June Diane Raphael [00:05:20] Okay now we’re getting to something. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:21] It’s all starting to click into place. 

June Diane Raphael [00:05:24] Yeah, now I’m starting to understand. 

Paul Scheer [00:05:28] I mean, this is, this is it. Like this is Jim Carrey’s big thing. J.C. 23 Entertainment is his production company and they’re– 

June Diane Raphael [00:05:39] Holy shit. Because as I was watching this I was like, yeah, is that Jesus Christ? It’s the opposite of 666.

Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:48] 23 plus 10 Disciples is 33, which is the age of Jesus Christ was when he died. 

Paul Scheer [00:05:56] I mean, and this is where– by the way, this thing can go on so long. William S. Burroughs was the first person to really believe in 23 as the enigma, you know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:08] A totally normal man. 

Paul Scheer [00:06:09] Yes. So he–

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:11] Totally normal. The author of Naked Lunch. 

Paul Scheer [00:06:15] And then and then all of a sudden you start to see it in all these different things. I’ll just read you a couple more because I know we’ve given you a million examples, but normal human sex cells have 23 chromosomes. Other human cells have 46 arranged in 23 pairs. The earth’s axis is tilted at 23 degrees. Musical acts with connections to number 23: Tool, Blink 182. Like they’re all these like 23 is an album and–

June Diane Raphael [00:06:40] Couldn’t you do the same for any, I mean this is like– what I don’t understand is you can make so many numbers work if you do enough kind of, if you’re backing into 23. I mean, couldn’t we do that with any number? 

Paul Scheer [00:06:56] Well, yeah. I mean, honestly, I’d feel like–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:59] Here’s what I’ll say–

June Diane Raphael [00:07:01] I feel crazy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:01] As absurd as it is, and I agree with you, June, as crazy making as it sounds, what year did you say this came out? 2007? 

Paul Scheer [00:07:09] 2007. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:10] So in 2007 this must have felt like this is preposterous. EyeRoll city, right? We live in a culture in a society now where the conspiracy theories that a huge amount of the population like participate in and believe in are so much more ridiculous than this. This makes– this movie makes more sense than like Qanon nonsense. 

June Diane Raphael [00:07:36] I actually thought, like, was this the beginning of Q? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:39] Oh, my God, is Jim Carrey, Q? 

Paul Scheer [00:07:43] Well, I’m gonna tell you, there’s a lot of people who love this movie. And I got to tell you that–

Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:46] There are? 

Paul Scheer [00:07:47] Oh, yes. Because they are conspiracy theory nuts. And by the way, if you listen to this show, we’re right behind you. We are support you 100%. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:55] But are you willing to commit? Are we just doing numeral? Is this numerology February? I mean, are we doing it next week? Are we doing The Lucky Number Sleven? 

Paul Scheer [00:08:04] I just have to say that this is a perfect example of these types of movies where somebody just has enough power to get their own weird idea out and is like, “If I can just get this to the masses.” Like, because this really does feel like–. 

June Diane Raphael [00:08:24] That’s the thing, Paul. Here’s my genuine question. Okay? Because at the end of the movie, I felt insane. I was like, put me in an institution, please. But I am genuinely asking at the end of the movie is the story that Jim Carrey is insane or that the number 23 is actually coming for him? 

Paul Scheer [00:08:47] It chased his father. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:49] Both. 

Paul Scheer [00:08:50] And then. And then. 

June Diane Raphael [00:08:51] Both? So it’s coming for him. And so it made him crazy. But I guess that’s what I’m saying is that the movie sort of affirms that 23 is a killer number. And the devil’s number. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:02] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:03] Much like Jim Carrey, Walter Swallow was infected by– 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:10] Swallow? Sparrow. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:11] Sparrow. Sparrow. Sorry. Sorry. They’re both birds. Sorry. Sorry. A sparrow. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:14] And that’s not to be confused with his detective name. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:17] Oh Jesus. 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:20] Or his wife, Robin. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:21] Fingerling. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:22] Fingerling. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:23] Fingerling like the potato. I could not get past the potato. 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:29] Or his pseudonym. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:31] Oh his pseudonym is– this is the best one. The pseudonym is my favorite part because when you say it out loud, it gets really good. Topsy Kretts, a.k.a.. Top secrets. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:45] Topsy Kretts. 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:46] I laughed so hard at the reveal of topsy kretts. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:51] Topsy Kretts. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:53] Secrets, out. 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:54] Topsy Kretts. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:55] Topsy Kretts. Topsy Kretts is the author of the book that Jim Carrey, The Dog Catcher, finds. Now, here’s what I’ll say, when this movie first started. This is in this era of sad Jim Carrey, like depressed Jim Carrey, like a little bit after Eternal Sunshine, he’s got the long hair and and he looks to me like he’s a FedEx guy, right? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:16] Yes. He’s got this long hair and he’s got it styled in a way that is like from guys in 2007, which is flat down on his head, kind of matted down, even though he looks like, okay, anyway, it doesn’t matter. When they give him flashbacks in the movie, the young actor playing young Jim Carrey some 20 some odd years in the past, has the exact same haircut. 

Paul Scheer [00:10:44] Yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:48] Why did they give the kid that’s in the late sixties, a 2007 haircut? 

Paul Scheer [00:10:55] I have a feeling that that was a miscommunication for the director. Joel Schumacher to the hair and makeup team. Like, “Yeah yeah, he’s a young Jim Carrey.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:02] I’m worried they’re not going to know this is a flashback and it’s a young Jim Carrey. Make him look exactly the same. 

Paul Scheer [00:11:08] Well, at that point, we’re not even supposed to think he’s young Jim Carrey. We’re supposed to think this is a young Topsy Kretts. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:13] Oh, that’s right. It’s young Topsy Kretts. That’s right. Because there’s flashbacks inside of the fantasy sequences. This movie is like layers on layers on layers of nothing, frankly. The movie makes– the movie as a zero. Like in numerology senses or numerical senses the whole movie is times zero so it ends up zero. 

Paul Scheer [00:11:36] Well I will say this, when you meet him, Jim Carrey, I was like, What is this movie going to be about? It’s going to be about like a sad man who finds something in this number 23. But then this reveal of him, like in a truck looking miserable, depressed, and then it’s like a comical decal on the side. It’s like, you know, he’s an animal, dog. He’s a dog catcher, essentially a dog catcher. He hates animals. 

June Diane Raphael [00:11:59] I don’t know how they ever expected us to get on board with a character that hates dogs. Like hates dogs and calls them evil, dead dogs and wants to catch them. 

Paul Scheer [00:12:10] The first moment.

June Diane Raphael [00:12:18] I was so angry at this character and I was so appalled at the treatment of these animals. It was so strange. I’m like, and looking back on the movie, to be quite honest, Ned the dog, I don’t know why. Why was Ned there? Why did he have to hate dogs? That cute little dog, he almost ran him over. 

Paul Scheer [00:12:40] The dog, essentially brought him into his first experience of death. Right? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:12:47] I mean, the movie I feel like can’t decide if it’s supernatural or not. 

Paul Scheer [00:12:53] Right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:12:54] If there’s actual because, you know, like, there’s this element of like, oh, is the dog kind of provoking him into this journey of self-discovery and remembering and uncovering his memories and stuff. Because the dog bites him, he chases the dog, and the dog goes right to the gravestone of the woman that he killed. 

Paul Scheer [00:13:17] Right. And then also later on, we see the dog with this man, this very intimidating man. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:25] Oh yeah. Who’s that? 

June Diane Raphael [00:13:26] Who is that? 

Paul Scheer [00:13:28] It’s revealed in the very last seconds. I think that that might have been the devil. Okay, here’s my theory. The larger theory. I think it’s like the number 23 is the killer in this movie. And it will always find you. It will make you appear to be insane, but you’re basically just carrying out the will, the number 23, and the number 23 is the devil’s number. So the devil has a dog who then helps people get back to that? I don’t know. That’s part of what I would put together in here. Like based on the things I know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:13:56] If the devil had an animal. There’s no way it would be a dog. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:59] Well, I mean, there’s Cerberus, the three headed dog that guards the gates of hell. So there’s that dog. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. The other thing I couldn’t figure out is that scene at the end of the movie where we see the dog, Ned, we see this dark, shadowy figure, and they’re at the gravestone at the funeral? The funeral for Laura, the woman that Jim Carrey killed. But they’re having a funeral 15 years later? 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:26] Well, because they never found her remains. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:28] Oh, that’s right. 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:31] Now, I would really love to get into why Robin took her skeleton. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:40] I think to protect Jim Carrey. 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:42] Oh, wait. Scott is saying her name is Agatha. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:45] Agatha is her name. Robin is the son. 

Paul Scheer [00:14:49] But Agatha wouldn’t have known Jim Carrey to move the body. 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:54] Well, no, because she found– wait no. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:01] And she’s read the book. 

June Diane Raphael [00:15:02] Institute. Nathaniel. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:04] Oh, right. She figures out that he’s the author of the book, right? Yes, when Bud Cort is– when she finds Bud Cort’s crazy room. 

Paul Scheer [00:15:12] Okay, wait. Let me go back. Let me just go back. Let me just go back for a little bit because if you’re listening to this, it sounds like pure– 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:21] I would like the T shirt to be Bud Court’s crazy room. It’s just a red hued, scrawl filled nightmare scape. 

June Diane Raphael [00:15:29] Okay, but here’s my question, Paul, and I’m sorry. I’m really sorry to interrupt, but my question about like 23 and the devil. So Agatha already wanted to paint her room red. 

Paul Scheer [00:15:42] Can we just, let me just set up. 

June Diane Raphael [00:15:43] Yes, Yes. 

Paul Scheer [00:15:44] Sorry. Okay. Let me just set up one little bit of here, because I think this will help us. And June immediately turns off her camera. I’ll say this. We meet Jim Carrey. He seems like a– Ope, Jason just turned of his camera. No, guys, I just have to explain one part of the plot. You see, we meet Jim Carrey. He seems like he is a depressed loner, doesn’t fit in. And then you reveal he is happily married to a beautiful woman and has a son and seemingly a pretty functional family life. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:16:16] Not just functional, I would say, happy. 

Paul Scheer [00:16:17] Yes. So we have Virginia Madsen, who’s Agatha, and we have Logan Lerman, who is Robin. That’s his son. I just wanted to set that up. So this weird character that we meet who hates dogs, who’s xenophobic. He’s actually a very well-adjusted, like, normal guy living a normal life. And right. So now I just want to label who these characters are because it’s going to get hard to. 

June Diane Raphael [00:16:42] I’m sorry, you’re so right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:16:43] Also because many of them, like there are a couple of characters like Jim Carrey plays both Walter, right? And he plays Fingerling in the fantasy sequences, like as does Virginia Madsen plays Agatha, but she also plays Fabrizia in the-. 

All [00:17:03] (Laughter) 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:11] Fabrizia. 

Paul Scheer [00:17:15] So the reason why this number, this book, this number 23 book comes into Jim Carrey’s hands is because he is late to his own birthday dinner with his wife because this monster of a dispatcher from the dog impound makes him work a little bit later one night because. 

June Diane Raphael [00:17:32] Because he turned down her advances. 

Paul Scheer [00:17:35] In the best dialog of all time. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:39] She’s basically like, why don’t you take it out and wag your tail at me? 

Paul Scheer [00:17:42] And he goes, I wouldn’t wag my tail in the bitches room with you if you were the last bitch on earth because it’s a celebration party. It’s his birthday party but it’s a dog themed birthday party. So his cake is a dog. So it’s all of that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:58] Also, it looks like the ladies room has been covered over with the word bitch. 

Paul Scheer [00:18:02] Right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:03] So the bathroom does say bitches room. It’s also so convoluted. It’s like, why would it’s like having a birthday party for a lawyer and everything being law themed. Like this is the jury box. 

June Diane Raphael [00:18:14] I had so many questions about, first of all, where is this movie take place? 

Paul Scheer [00:18:19] I don’t know. Philadelphia? 

June Diane Raphael [00:18:20] Okay. In whatever. Okay. So I know for a fact that in some places the animal controller is an elected position. In some small towns. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:35] I don’t think Jim Carrey had to run for this. 

June Diane Raphael [00:18:40] Okay. But my question is, how many people could possibly be working in this department? It’s enormous. Not only that, but there seems to be in whatever small town city this is, there seems to be a behavioral psychologist just for the animal controller. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:05] Yes. 

June Diane Raphael [00:19:05] So that if they run into any traumatic experiences on the job, they can go talk to this person. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:11] They’ve basically taken all of the elements of a traditional police story. The bar that services the detectives, the mental health professional who helps out the police who’ve had traumatic experiences and clears them for duty so that they can return to the force after a shooting or an event. All of those tropes from a police procedural story have been ported onto an animal control officer who let a dog get away on his birthday. 

June Diane Raphael [00:19:46] And was bitten by a dog. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:48] Yes. 

Paul Scheer [00:19:48] I want to underline it one more time too. It is a crazy way to meet a lead character. It’s Jim Carrey. He first barks at another dog. He’s an animal controller. 

June Diane Raphael [00:20:00] Was that a bark, Paul? That first sound he made, I was like, I don’t know what that is. 

Paul Scheer [00:20:05] He was taunting a dog. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:06] Do you think all of this, he hates dogs, he’s taunting the dog, he’s talking to the dogs. Is this just a bit or a trying to reframe or change the narrative from Ace Ventura? I talk to dogs. I’m a goofball, that this is like, is this a wink or is this trying to–. 

June Diane Raphael [00:20:25] I thought about that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:27] Because it’s– the movie starts and I was like, this feels like obviously referencing Ace Ventura. Like, “I’m not always nice to animals.”. 

June Diane Raphael [00:20:34] Right. “I hate animals.” 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:37] “In fact, I can also hate animals. I have range.” 

Paul Scheer [00:20:42] I mean, at this point is great. Ace Ventura came out in 1994. This is 2007, I think. I think he’s pretty far away from, you know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:51] How close to the Schumacher Batman that Jim Carrey was in? Is this another Schumacher, Jim Carrey– Were they on set for Batman and Jim Carrey was like, “Listen, I got–“. 

Paul Scheer [00:21:04] Batman and Robin is 1997, guys. This is years later.

June Diane Raphael [00:21:09] Yeah, guys, I think that all this is is Jim Carrey’s fascination with the number 23. 

Paul Scheer [00:21:16] Just to put it in context, this is of the era where he’s kind of already had his ups and downs and this is like just a weird sidestep because this is coming out in 2007. And he’s already been Lemony Snicket. He already did Eternal Sunshine. He did Bruce Almighty. Right. So he did Fun with Dick and Jane. And then the Number 23 and the next movie he made was Yes, Man. So it’s like this is an odd like it’s not you know, it’s post majestic. It’s you know, it’s a weird moment of his time. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:53] It’s not in his heyday. 

Paul Scheer [00:21:55] Right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:56] But it’s in this period where he’s trying to do a bunch of different stuff. 

Paul Scheer [00:21:59] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:22:00] Right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:22:00] Interesting and trying to reinvent himself. There’s a– it’s so interesting because I feel like one of the things we haven’t mentioned is in the fantasy sequence of this, because part of me feels like this is an element that Jim Carrey may have been drawn to, is that he gets to play the affable everyman who’s kind of spiraling out of control. But in the fantasy sequences, the fantasy is all a noir detective story. Like an incredibly washed out, stylized, femme fatale filled noir story. 

Paul Scheer [00:22:36] Where he plays a saxophone. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:22:39] And has bad tattoos. 

Paul Scheer [00:22:41] I mean, he plays the saxophone shirtless. It’s like that character from the Lost Boys. 

June Diane Raphael [00:22:47] How could you be an everyman if you hate dogs? 

Paul Scheer [00:22:49] Well, I want to bring it back. He doesn’t only hate dogs, he’s also kind of a racist, because when he does confront that dog, he presents this– like he is doing a monologue to this dog about how this dog is going to be eaten if this dog was in China. He’s like and I guess also working for like– it’s like I just point that out for a couple of reasons because it’s our lead character and he is going to go into a descent of madness. But you start off going, This guy fucking sucks like he is. 

June Diane Raphael [00:23:23] Absolutely, Paul. And I would add that this is not a vicious dog. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:23:30] No, not at all. And I would also. 

June Diane Raphael [00:23:32] Pit bull mix of some kind who seemed like pretty docile. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:23:38] Yeah. Oh, and I would also add, what does he have to be such a dick about? He has a wonderful home with a supporting, loving family. I mean, maybe he’s haunted by the traumas of his past and just doesn’t know it and is waiting for a handmade book to be found and trigger his his memories. 

June Diane Raphael [00:23:59] Can I ask something, though. Why not have him find the book? 

Paul Scheer [00:24:03] Well, this is my question. Why? Okay. Agatha said that she has read the book, but she’s in the bookstore holding the book. So did she already read it before she went to the bookstore? Did she try to open him? Because here’s the thing. And we have two spoilers at one point, because I think we have to unpack it. We find out much, much later in the movie that Jim Carrey has been in a mental institution, has one of the best exits of that. Like basically he’s in a mental institution. He’s has amnesia which makes him forget that he killed somebody. And as he’s leaving the mental institution, the doc’s like, “Well, I hope I don’t see you anymore.” And he’s like, “Oh, I’m not going to come back.” They have a joking dispatch from the mental institution. And then immediately as he walks out the door, he has a meet cute with Virginia Madsen where he, like, bumps into her and she drops a cake and then they get together. But so this entire movie, she knows he knows nothing about his life before 23 years old. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:25:00] Well, but why doesn’t he know that? Why isn’t he able– he doesn’t seem to, you know, he doesn’t remember whether it’s amnesia or they tell you. They say it because he tries to commit suicide and jumps out of a window. And so they’re not sure if it’s trauma from the fall or if it’s some sort of amnesia or if it’s just whatever. But he doesn’t seem to remember any of his past life. So but mustn’t his family understand it? The movie wants to have it every way. Right? They want him to be totally normal. And then through the process of finding and reading this book and because that’s what we haven’t really said definitively, the book. The book that he had, the whole movie is about him becoming obsessed with this book and thinking that this book and this author is writing about him only to find at the end of the movie, obviously, that Jim Carrey, his character, wrote the book prior to going insane prior to amnesia. 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:04] The best part is that we find that out because Virginia Madsen rips off a piece of paper that had been like glued to the title page of the manuscript where it said by, and then it said Topsy Kretts. What’s his name again, Paul? 

Paul Scheer [00:26:23] Topsy Kretts, yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:26] I can’t deal with that. But who did that? Did Bud Court do that? 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:31] That’s what I don’t know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:32] Who made the red book? Who made the red book? You know, because here’s the thing. By the end of the movie, there’s two copies of the book. One, that we’ve spent the whole movie with, which is the red covered book with the red cover, which matches the red walls, which matches the red light bulb in Bud Cort’s chaos room. And then there’s the copy that is the manuscript, which is the loose pages that Jim Carrey types up and hand writes and glues stuff to. 

June Diane Raphael [00:27:01] The last chapter’s on a wall. In a hotel. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:02] And then the last chapter is on the wall in the hotel. But who made the Red Book? Bud Cort? I don’t know. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:11] So basically, this man went insane and wrote this book. 

June Diane Raphael [00:27:17] Topsy Kretts? 

Paul Scheer [00:27:17] No, No Topsy Kretts is Fingerling or no, basically, no. But he wrote the book. Jim Carrey wrote the book. So Jim Carrey wrote this book, like as an insane person. And then he’s like, “Oh, wouldn’t this be great if I just self-published this book under something?” It’s a wild ride. I don’t know why he wanted to get that– 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:34] You think he published? 

June Diane Raphael [00:27:35] I don’t think he published it. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:38] He sent it to the thing, he sent it to publisher. I thought that Bud Cort published the book. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:46] Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I thought you were saying Jim Carrey. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:52] Oh, no, no. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:52] I misunderstood. Okay, got it. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:53] So basically, they take advantage of this guy. And by the way, my stepfather used to bring home beautiful watercolors painted by schizophrenic patients of his. They’re really gorgeous. And June told me I couldn’t put them in the house because they were too scary. 

June Diane Raphael [00:28:09] One was very frightening. It had nothing to do with this, you know, having schizophrenia or not. It was just a frightening image. 

Paul Scheer [00:28:17] Of course. No, no. But so they basically like he’s like, “Oh, this is interesting. Let me just like, make money on this person who is not well.” Publishes the book, but then pops on Topsy Kretts.  But then he gets obsessed about the number 23 in the publishing and reading of it. So the book is like a virus. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:41] But then Agatha read it. She didn’t go insane. Robin is reading it. He doesn’t go insane. 

Paul Scheer [00:28:48] When did Agatha read it? Because she keeps on going, “Oh, no, you’re being crazy. You’re being crazy.” First of all, the family’s so okay with him writing on the walls, they’re way relaxed with him going crazy. But, like, when did she read it? Like, and because it seems like she’s holding the book to set him up to open it, but– 

June Diane Raphael [00:29:06] It did seem that way. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:06]  I will say this. For a slim– it’s a novella. Let’s be clear. It’s 22 chapters. It’s a shortie. 

Paul Scheer [00:29:17] I mean, by the way, I will also say it’s a graphic novel at points. And there’s pictures in there. There’s a writing. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:23] Collage. It’s a mixed media piece. But he really inexplicably, for reasons I’ll never understand, the movie continuously gives us the dates, like it’ll be like February 5th. And so what you I mean and I don’t know why. The time. There is no ticking clock, there is no timeline. There is no reason to be jumping back and forth in time and trying to help us by understanding what day it is. But what it does let us know is it’s taking Jim Carrey weeks to read a very small book. So my assumption is his wife read it just in an appropriate amount of time, which is for a book that size probably 3 hours. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:04] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:05] I think that’s a good point. I thought for sure we were going to land. Everything was going to culminate to a date that added up to 23. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:14] Oh, yeah, sure. Okay. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:17] Well, his birthday is on February 3rd. We know that. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:19] Now, let me also let me also just say. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:21] But it didn’t. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:23] I mean this movie also feels like, while it’s really leaning into all this conspiracy, it also feels like is it a parody of it? 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:31] I thought that too at points. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:31] When he starts reading this book, it’s as if Jim Carrey is reading it like this, like he’s doing a bit like listen to Jim Carrey’s voiceover of him reading the book. 

Movie Audio [00:30:43] Chapter one, You can call me Fingerling. It’s not my real name. It came from a book I read as a child. Fingerling at the Zoo. Paper flap, long gone. It had a green hardback cover and mottled texture. It was possibly my very first book. I can’t recall what it was about. The only thing I remember is the name. Fingerling. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:12] It was so weird. Like when he says, “Call me fingerling.” I’m like, All right,. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:16] Bad. It’s a bad book. It’s all so bad. 

June Diane Raphael [00:31:19] Yes. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:20] This is not a book. This book is also like I’m like, this is not compelling. I’m not sitting up. Okay. Yeah. I mean. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:26] When you realize it was written in a post-murder frenzy, you’re like, okay. 

June Diane Raphael [00:31:30] But that’s my question about Agatha, because I believe that Agatha had maybe– Agatha’s clearly already been seduced by the devil. That’s why she wants to paint those walls red. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:46] Okay. So she’s already been turned? 

June Diane Raphael [00:31:48] Yes. So I think she had probably either already read the book before she saw it in the gift shop. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:58] Oh, so maybe is Danny Houston the devil? That other doctor? 

June Diane Raphael [00:32:03] Maybe. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:03] I would believe that only because Danny Houston is always the bad guy. 

Paul Scheer [00:32:08] Yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:09] So when I saw Danny Houston’s name in the credits, I was like, Well, that’s who. That’s who did it. And then he turns out to be the seemingly benevolent. He seems to be an ally to Agatha and Robin in trying to help corral the more and more erratic Jim Carrey. Correct or no? 

Paul Scheer [00:32:30] Or is he just trying to manipulate him? 

June Diane Raphael [00:32:32] I don’t know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:34] I thought it was going to be revealed at the end that Danny Houston had done the crimes, but was making Jim Carrey crazy to the point that Jim Carrey was going to be convicted of the murder, that it would seem as though Jim Carrey would incriminate or like when Jim Carrey dug up the body, I thought, Oh, this is it. They’re going to make it so that he gets arrested for this, only to find out he did, in fact, do it. You know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:32:58] Interesting. I don’t know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:01] Because at the end of the day, Danny Houston, not a bad guy. 

June Diane Raphael [00:33:03] Not a bad guy. And I will say the bad guy is Jim Carrey. And what I didn’t understand is the very end, and I’m jumping ahead listeners. But at the very end, Jim Carrey says that because he’s turned himself in, obviously the guy who was framed for the murder of Laura, we haven’t even got into the original murder, but whoever that college girlfriend of his was that he murdered. 

Paul Scheer [00:33:30] Because she touched Danny Houston– or no. She touched that other guy’s finger. 

June Diane Raphael [00:33:35] Well, no, she did have sex with him in the woods. 

Paul Scheer [00:33:37] Oh, yeah. That looks so uncomfortable. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:41] She was touching his fingerlings in the classroom. 

June Diane Raphael [00:33:45] That’s why they call him Detective Fingerlings. He’s always looking now for fingers touching other fingers. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:51] I can’t get over the fact that he named the character Detective Fingerling in his hard boiled. Or, you know, the Philip Marlowe-esque character is Detective Fingerling. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:02] But here’s my question. At the very end, he says, when he’s talking to his son Robin, that he’s going to be in jail for a while. Justice has been served and, you know, he’s going to be serving his time until he gets parole. Why would this man ever get paroled? 

Paul Scheer [00:34:22] Because he said the judge took kindness on him because he came for– basically the judge is like, “You didn’t have to do this, so I’ll go easy on you.” Oh, like, hey, hey, hey. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:33] You did me one, I’ll do you one. Like, no, you killed someone. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:38] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:38] And not only that, but another man sat in jail for, like, for 23 years. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:43] Oh, 23? I don’t know. I don’t know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:46] I know. 15 plus 15 is 30. And then if you take 30 and you. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:52] Minus seven. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:53] Seven, you’re going to get to 23. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:56] Yes. 

Paul Scheer [00:34:56] I do think, though, it’s like it’s so weird because even in that final moment when they’re at the gravesite, the devil man and dog are close. But everyone’s always spying on people in very close proximity, like when Jim Carrey is watching his wife and Danny Houston in that restaurant, he’s literally standing in the middle of an empty street staring into a big bay window. It’s like you would catch it in the corner of your eye, like it’s not, he’s not even try– like everyone is just there. Like the other person standing at the cemetery, like 2 feet away, I’m 2 feet away. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:35:29] It felt like, Yeah, it felt like there was. It’s so unsatisfying. This is a murder thriller, mystery. Whodunit. It wants to be an erotic thriller because there’s all these kind of like transgressive sexual things that are happening in the flashback, especially. And then there’s also like an element where I felt like Jim Carrey was like, I want to make Seven. Yeah, I want to make my Seven, my gritty, stylized crime thriller, blah, blah, blah. Except that at the end, the ending is so unsatisfying. It’s that he’s been the killer the whole time and that he just didn’t know it. There’s no outing of the bad guy. There’s no satisfying unraveling of the mystery and the revelation of the real murderer, blah, blah, blah. It’s just–. 

Paul Scheer [00:36:24] What it feels like to me is when you’ve been in a writer’s room where you’re trying to come up with a solution for something and it’s like late it’s like 11:00 at night. And it’s like, all right, here’s the deal. You know, it is he wrote the book. She knew about the book, but she’s also by the devil. And he, so she hid the body. It sounds good. Fast, fastly pitched, right. And then everyone is like, oh, yeah, that is good. And then you go home, and then the next morning you come back like, Oh, what do we come up with? Oh, that doesn’t make any sense. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:36:50] But then they’re like, Wait a minute, wait a minute. Fuck, fuck, fuck. We already cast Danny Houston, so he’s got to be the murderer, right? He’s Danny Houston. 

Paul Scheer [00:36:57] When you look at my notes in a one section, this is. These are the notes right after each other. Who is this? She wrote the book? He wrote the book? He was the detective. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:08] Danny Houston. My notes. Paul, my notes are so similar. They’re just almost. There’s a huge chunk of my notes that all just. Is this a homemade book? Movie we’re in is in the book? Like all these everything equals 23, but not really. It’s all just questions. 

June Diane Raphael [00:37:26] All of mine are. Why is he speaking to dogs like this? How dare he hate dogs? Why must he hate dogs?

Paul Scheer [00:37:33] I’m going to tell you this. I know that we talked a lot about the number 23. I thought this movie is off the rails when the son gave him his birthday gift and it looked like a five year old made a mug. 

June Diane Raphael [00:37:44] That was crazy. 

Paul Scheer [00:37:46] The son seems like a straight up high– like the son is making out with his girlfriend on the couch. He’s like, “Here dad.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:52] The son is like a 16 year old. They all have a lovely relationship and dynamic to each other. And the son looks like he made him something in like one of those pottery places that you go to for a seven year old birthday party.

June Diane Raphael [00:38:05] What a small child would make.

Paul Scheer [00:38:08] It’s not pretty in any way. Like, the world’s best dad. It’s like, All right, all right. This 18 year old made this? 

Paul Scheer [00:38:15] I just want go back to Jim Carrey’s weirdness. I’m watching the movie for clues and like, what’s going on here? Did you see that weird moment where, like, Jim Carrey’s, like, trying on his, like, his vest for before he goes to a birthday party? Like, I look like a rock star. What the fuck are you talking about? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:34] I’m sorry, but, Paul, I want to be clear. He says I look like a rock star to his son? 

Paul Scheer [00:38:43] Yeah. Like he’s trying to get fucked. And then you reveal he’s got a wife. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:46] Yes. Then it doesn’t matter, by the way. It doesn’t matter because he goes to that party and they do want to fuck him anyway. That woman, the supervisor. That’s where the scene happens, where she says, “Wag your tail at me.” So he is like he’s in his movie being like, “I need to be an object of sexual desire, but also a family man.” But also–. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:07] I have to say this. I have a theory. I don’t know if I’ve talked about this theory here, but I’m going to talk about it now, which is I believe that in every movie, Jim Carrey must show himself fucking because it’s like I am still a wanted man. In Ace Ventura, arguably one of the goofiest fucking movies, he fucks. And it’s like. And he’s good at it. Like, it’s not like. It’s like it’s a funny scene, but that scene isn’t funny like that about him fucking. It’s like, Oh, no, no. He’s really good at fucking. All the animals are watching him fuck. And it’s like, it’s a weird choice. Like, I feel like Jim Carrey is like, I just need to let everybody know, like, I may be weird or whatever. 

June Diane Raphael [00:39:46] I do do funny voices. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:47] But I still fuck. I fuck good. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:51] Just because I’m wearing the mask. Don’t worry, I fuck. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:56] There is something I have to do a deeper research on this, but every time I see him in a movie, it comes out of nowhere that people are like, “I want to fuck you.” And that’s. And that’s never like. And we’ve been watching a lot of Adam Sandler movies because our kids have been really enjoying it. And it’s been great to watch. Like, Sandler doesn’t carry himself like that. Bill Murray doesn’t carry himself like that. Like Steve Martin doesn’t. It’s like he’s like “I fuck.” 

June Diane Raphael [00:40:17] You’re right. And it’s hard in a way, because with Ace Ventura, it’s such a funny movie and our kids love it. But we do have to constantly– 

Paul Scheer [00:40:25] Oh, yeah, that movie is– 

June Diane Raphael [00:40:26] Like, run in and fast forward Jim Carrey fucking. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:30] I mean, there’s a lot of things in there around sex is a little messy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:33] I mean, it takes it’s all new meaning for “Take You to the Pound”. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:38] By the way, the opening scene of Fucking Ace Ventura, he steals a dog, right? The reward for stealing a dog is a blowjob. But the woman’s like, I got to blow you. That’s like. That’s the opening. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:51] I’m gonna be honest. I don’t. I’ll be honest. I don’t think I’ve watched Ace Ventura for. 

June Diane Raphael [00:40:56] It’s quite funny, you know? He’s so great in it. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:57] Very good. Yeah,. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:59] Probably five, 20 years. 

Paul Scheer [00:41:00] I’ll tell you this much. The rumor I heard about Ace Ventura was that Jim Carrey couldn’t get a movie. You know, he’s trying to get a movie together, couldn’t get one and gets Ace Ventura and is like, “This script is terrible, but I’m going to make sure it’s going to be great.” And every day would stay up until like two or three in the morning, writing the pages for the next day to make sure it was great and and really imbue this character and make it awesome. And I feel like he needs a little bit more of this energy in movie 23 to make it make sense. I feel like noone looking the next day’s pages or they were and they weren’t looking at what they already shot. I don’t know. Jim Carrey did fire his agent at the test screening of this movie. At the screening. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:37] Whoa. 

Paul Scheer [00:41:39] Which is also like, fuck you, because you clearly wanted to do this. You can’t fire. And it’s not like you. It’s not like, All right, paint my house. I’ll come home and see what it is like. You are. You’re an accomplice. Like you were on set. You saw it. You got that bad back tattoo. You picked up the saxophone, You knew what you were doing. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:58] I mean, now that I understand he was obsessed with the number 23 and all this, this has got to be a passion project. This is his toy. 

Paul Scheer [00:42:05] Oh, this is friend. Yes, His friend, Fernley. Fernley Phillips, who is the writer of this, his friend. Oh, yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:42:13] Did anyone else noticed that when he wrote a note to Agatha when he was leaving to go dig out the skeleton at the park, which also had a name that, you know, rhyme together. Did anyone else notice that the note he left for Agatha that he put on the refrigerator, put a magnet on it for her to see. His handwriting was so flowery and flourished. I don’t know if we have a screengrab of it, but it was the most kind of feminine. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:42:48] Don’t you? I always assume that is a props department person who wrote that note. 

June Diane Raphael [00:42:53] It was just so hilarious. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:42:55] Hilariously not him, because it should look like the chaotic scrawls. 

June Diane Raphael [00:43:01] That are on his arms. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:03] He’s been doing on his arms, on the walls, on everything. 

June Diane Raphael [00:43:07] Cursive, like pure cursive. 

Paul Scheer [00:43:10] I will say the interesting thing about Fernley Phillips, the writer of this, is his only, he’s only credited with the Number 23. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:21] It’s got to be a psuedonym. Jim Carrey wrote this right? 

Paul Scheer [00:43:24] There’s pictures of him, but he never. But he never wrote any like. It’s not even like. Oh, like I’ve never seen an IMDB page. It’s one. It’s one credit. I would argue that Jim Carrey wrote this movie. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:43] That’s what I just said. Yeah. I feel like Jim Carrey wrote this and under a pseudonym and Fernley Phillips is like his Tony Clifton. 

Paul Scheer [00:43:50] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:43:51] Fernley Phillips IMDB. 

Paul Scheer [00:43:53] I’m like, I’m just I. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:57] What are we doing? We can’t be going down the rabbit hole. We’re doing it. We’re doing the number 23. We’re stuck in a conspiracy. 

June Diane Raphael [00:44:05] That’s what I was saying. Like they did this to us. The number 23 is out for us. I’m dead serious, guys. Fernley Phillips.

Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:16] You’re both going through, like, a conspiracy theory. 

June Diane Raphael [00:44:18] (Gasps) 

Paul Scheer [00:44:18] So I just. I just. I just found. Okay. I just found the New York Times. Molly and I are finding out at the same time. Okay. Okay. In February– This is their wedding announcement and February 2002, Fernley Phillips was an undiscovered Hollywood screenwriter with a month to go before his money would run out, and he’d have to go home to England. He was so low on cash that he would wait until McDonald’s offered hamburgers for $0.29 and buy five to save money for the coming week. Alissa Ferguson was associate producer working for Beau Flynn, reading 30 to 50 scripts a week when Phillips’ screenplay the number 23 landed on her desk. It was love at first sight. “I thought this is probably the best script I’d seen in my entire life.” And that’s how they met. She read this script and that’s how they like– this movie united them over the movie 23. 

June Diane Raphael [00:45:04] Oh, wow. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:45:06] Wow. Okay. Okay. And it looks like he’s written other things too. It does look like he’s written other things. 

June Diane Raphael [00:45:17] I don’t know where you’re seeing that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:45:17] Sorry. I mean, I’m saying he is credited as having written features for Paramount, Warner Brothers, Universal, Fox, and now. These may not have been produced. But there are plenty of people who have successful, successful, very successful without– in which they get paid to a lot of money to write scripts that then eventually do not get made. 

Paul Scheer [00:45:40] I love that he found the love of his life from writing the movie, the number 23. Like it would be it would be very different story. I mean, he teaches a screenwriting class. We’re going deep, he teaches a screenwriting class. So he. All right. So he’s a real person. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:45:59] We apologize for suggesting that this was, that he was a psuedonym. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:03] Yes. But by the way, and now we’re going to sign up for his class. 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:08] It’s very interesting to see all of the other celebrities that were at the premiere of the Number 23. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:16] Oh, wow. Should this be a segment? Yes, this is a segment we’ve never done. 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:24] I’ll tell you who was there. Stacy Keebler. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:27] Oh, hey. 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:27] Rosario Dawson. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:29] Oh, nice. 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:30] Came out to support, which is always nice to see. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:34] I want to ask this question. Can I quickly say? 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:36] Yeah, go ahead. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:36] What is your take on this? Do you, do either of you show up to a movie that you have no involvement in? And let’s bar a very close friend’s something but like this is like, oh, hey, you know, this is a movie premiere and take away COVID and everything like that. Like, do you show up if you’re not involved in it at all? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:59] Now, just to clarify, you mean like walk the carpet and be photographed? 

Paul Scheer [00:47:06] Yes. Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:07] Okay. You’re not saying, do you go to the movie? 

Paul Scheer [00:47:10] Oh, no, no, no. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:11] You go to the premiere and do you get photographed? 

Paul Scheer [00:47:16] I got friends, I know that. Like Will say, oh, I got it. I got a– I’m going to go to this premier tonight. Oh, did you have anything to do with it? No, no, no. I’m just gonna go walk the carpet. Yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:22] I don’t. I don’t. I mean, like you said, though, unless I’m supporting a friend. Like, if you had a movie that was going and you said, Hey, come on. Yeah. Even if I wasn’t in it, I certainly would come and support, say, your film or whatever. But no, I wouldn’t go to. Now let me be clear. If they said come to the premiere of Fast Ten. Fast and Furious ten. 

Paul Scheer [00:47:45] I’m in. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:45] I would go and if they said, Do you want to walk the red carpet, I would be like, Absolutely. 

June Diane Raphael [00:47:50] That’s different because we are involved in that one. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:53] That’s what I think too. But but no, no, I wouldn’t randomly go to some random premiere. 

June Diane Raphael [00:47:59] Yeah, I would definitely go for her friend, obviously, but I wouldn’t go either unless it was a Fast movie or it was a movie that I felt like super attached to. 

Paul Scheer [00:48:10] Right. So this I’m just, I’m just saying. So these people who are showing up, they’re coming because either they’re part of, you know, maybe they’re part of this, maybe they’re they’re 23 conspiracy theorists. Maybe. I don’t know. I don’t want to lie. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:48:23] They’re 23 and me?

June Diane Raphael [00:48:23] A part of me wonders, though, if some of these actresses might have been in a cut of the movie. And because I know I have a number of friends who did not find out they were cut out of the movie until the premiere. 

Paul Scheer [00:48:36] Whoa. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:48:37] Oh, yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:48:42] Applegate was there, too. 

Paul Scheer [00:48:44] I showed up. I was in that Larry David movie, Clear History. And I went. I was excited. I knew I was in it. I shot with Larry for like a day. 

June Diane Raphael [00:48:56] I went with you, I’ll never forget he was pretty much the first person to arrive. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:00] He was the first person to arrive. 

June Diane Raphael [00:49:01] For his own movie. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:03] And then they displayed the red carpet on the screen. So like, as you’re sitting in your seat you could see people walking like you couldn’t hear, but you could see it. And Larry got up to take people off the red carpet so the movie would start on time, which was one of the best moves I’ve ever seen for the lead. He was already set, but when I walked in to that movie, I bumped into him in the lobby. He was like, “Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, hey, we we cut that. We cut that scene. We cut it way, way, way down. Oh, no.” It was it was such a funny moment of him realizing it. And then it does it does sting a little bit when you, you know. Yeah. But it’s, you know, but it was nice to acknowledge it. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:49:43] I would think, especially to find out at the premiere. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:46] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:49:47] You’ve gotten dressed up. Yeah, it’s horrible. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:51] All right, So anyway, down that rabbit hole, I will say this. What is Jim Carrey as a private investigator, if he’s meeting with suicidal people? Because he’s not a cop. He’s a P.I.. Right? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:07] Did he start as a cop and get, like, disgraced. Was he? Wasn’t there a thing where they were like, “You’re not a detective anymore.” Or something like that? 

Paul Scheer [00:50:16] Well that was that moment where they say did they take away your gun? And he’s like, Yeah, but hold on. But hold on. But. But when he first meets with that woman, she’s kind of hanging like she hung herself. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:25] This movie’s representation of suicide and mental illness, frankly, is deeply troubling. 

Paul Scheer [00:50:33] Yeah, yeah, I mean. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:34] Like across the board, everything from the hospital to the whatever is going on with him, with everybody, everybody in the treatment of mental illness in this movie is absolutely, you know, frankly, nuts. 

Paul Scheer [00:50:49] Well, maybe, maybe because they’re all you know, they’re all obsessed with the number 23. So they’re, you know, they can’t be doing their job. But that idea that he’s like meeting with her, like he’s meeting with the woman before she commits suicide to talk to her about why she– I mean, this is where the movie really like, I don’t understand what the fuck is going on. 

June Diane Raphael [00:51:07] I couldn’t follow that. 

Paul Scheer [00:51:08] And I guess it makes sense that it’s written by somebody who was having a mental breakdown as well, because it is confused. I mean, it’s confusing. It’s confusing. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:51:17] Oh, yeah. No, that’s the thing is none of the– because we spend so much time inside the story. Inside the book. 

Paul Scheer [00:51:25] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:51:25] Where Jim Carrey is portraying Detective Fingerling. Again, I can’t state it enough. His name is Fingerling, and we spend so much time in that story. And it features Jim Carrey narrating voiceover for the movie hardboiled kind of again, like I like Raymond Chandler’s style noir, hardboiled detective stuff, and it’s nonsense. None. We, the story of the book, The Detective Fingerling Story, doesn’t make any sense. He’s not. He’s not on the case. He’s just jumping around fucking people, holding his sax. This is Chekhov’s sax. He is holding it, but he never plays it. 

Paul Scheer [00:52:08] By the way, I will say this. I wrote it. I jumped up in the middle of watching this movie last night like I had figured it out. Every now and then there’ll be a moment, like I figured out the Sixth Sense before the reveal, and I was like, so proud. I was like, I did it. I saw that and I was able to enjoy the movie, like for like the next 10 minutes, like seeing what I knew. I jumped up the same way last night and I was like, “He’s got rabies.” That’s what I thought the entire movie. 

June Diane Raphael [00:52:40] Oh, wow. 

Paul Scheer [00:52:42] He’s going crazy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:52:43] I love that. As a from the initial dog bite. 

Paul Scheer [00:52:49] Yeah. It’s like he got rabies. That’s. And he’s gone crazy. He didn’t treat it. He didn’t take it seriously. And then they never even discussed that. That was it. But I really was like–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:52:59] That would’ve been incredible. Because, you know, rabies, once it takes over, you’re done. It’s over. 

Paul Scheer [00:53:05] And that’s what I thought would have been interesting. I was like, oh, this, this is like. But this whole idea of this larger murder plot. And then it’s also like you’re doing something really weird, which is like you’re telling three stories. You’re telling the story of the dog catcher who has amnesia, who killed this girl that he loved. But then that’s also being personified in another book because he’s also the suicide blonde. She jumps out the window, but he actually jumped out the window because he was feeling that. So like the movie opens with the end. It’s very like– and then when you try to connect the pieces, it doesn’t even make– it doesn’t make sense, nor do they even do like that fight club thing of like, “Oh, you see?”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:44] What you were missing. Right. Yeah. They never filled in the blanks for you. They just, you know, they just give you a couple of reveals that are just not satisfying. You know, like the other thing that’s really unsatisfying is just the end. The end of the movie. Like when he. It should feel incredible when he gets to that room and is ripping the wallpaper off to discover that Chapter 23 of the book is on the walls of the hotel. That should be a fucking awesome reveal where you’re like, Woah, the missing chapter. And you’re like, Wait, what? Like what is going? What, what, what, what is this? Also, there’s so little. There’s so little. The movie is full of truly insane moments that get no reaction from people when Bud Cort slices his own neck open with a box cutter in the mailbox store. Nobody yells, nobody screams. 

June Diane Raphael [00:54:40] The mailbox facility, as Virginia Madsen refers to it. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:54:43] I’m sorry, the MF, the mailbox. 

Paul Scheer [00:54:45] I love Virginia, by the way. I also like love Virginia Madsen, like Virginia. 

June Diane Raphael [00:54:50] It made me think of like, where is she and why don’t I see more of her? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:54:54] She was terrific in this. 

Paul Scheer [00:54:55] Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman, both great actors. And I will say even Jim Carrey in this, all like selling it like except for Jim Carrey’s voiceover.  Like, I mean but Virginia Madsen like I’m like, oh, you have to do the hardest thing, which is like, you come home, your husband’s written all over the walls and you’re like, “Hey, all right, so what’s on your mind, honey?”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:17] I  agree. I agree. I feel like Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman and to a lesser degree, Danny Houston. But really Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman are doing yeoman’s work trying to ground this movie into like reality by being like, “Okay.”. 

Paul Scheer [00:55:35] Virginia Madsen was married to Danny Houston? 

June Diane Raphael [00:55:39] What? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:39]  I didn’t know that. 

Paul Scheer [00:55:40] From 1989 to 1992. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:42]  I like they use almost just said that she was married to Logan Lerman. 

June Diane Raphael [00:55:47] Wow. So they were not married when they were in this movie together? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:54] When were they married? 

Paul Scheer [00:55:55] From 1989 to 1992, a short lived one. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:58]  Oh, interesting. So this was a reunion of sorts. 

Paul Scheer [00:56:01] Yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:56:02] I don’t think I knew she was married to Antonio Sabato, Jr. 

Paul Scheer [00:56:07] Oh, wow. 

June Diane Raphael [00:56:08] Or had a child with him. Wow. 

Paul Scheer [00:56:11] All right. We’re getting into guys. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:56:13] We’re deep in Madsen. She was great. She was great in this. And because there was also a period where and I don’t know what you guys felt like. There was also a period where I was like, Oh, she did it. 

Paul Scheer [00:56:23] Yes. 

June Diane Raphael [00:56:24] Absolutely. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:56:25] And I was like, okay. I’m on board for that version of it. Where she is, her past is coming back to and because of this book or someone is taunting her because she is the first person who finds the book, you know? So I was like, oh, is this somehow her perpetuating or putting this thing in motion? I just you know. 

Paul Scheer [00:56:47] Can I just quickly pitch out what I think the story is and tell me if I’m right or wrong. Jim Carrey’s dad has been haunted by the number 23. Jim Carrey. His father kills himself. Jim Carrey then, you know, feels like, oh, my gosh, my dad had this little curse, but I’m doing okay. I’m in love with a girl. Everything is going great. Catches his girlfriend cheating on him. And then the number, that’s the number 23 is kind of infecting him. At that point. He kills his girlfriend and blames it on someone else, but that forces him to go crazy. Tried to commit suicide, gets amnesia, goes to this hospital, gets better. The number 23 is gone. Immediately meets Virginia Madsen. They get married. They have a very happy life. Besides the fact that he hates dogs and is slightly racist and everything is okay until he finds this book. But we don’t know anything. And then we know what happens there. But we don’t know anything about how Virginia Madsen gets corrupted or why she is the way she is, why she wants the wall’s blood red. Is she working for the devil? When she read the book. Like we don’t know anything about this character. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:57:51] I think the movie. I don’t think. Well, I don’t know, June, I’d like to hear what you think, but I don’t think the movie thinks Virginia Madsen has been corrupted or is any sort of. I think Virginia Madsen, Danny Houston, Robin the Son, I think they all exist in the, they are benign. I don’t think any of them have malice or malicious intent. And maybe that’s why they cast Danny Houston was to throw you off the scent and be like, you think he’s going to be the bad guy, but he’s actually helping, you know? 

June Diane Raphael [00:58:23] Yeah, I, I genuinely don’t know because I did find it suspect that she was painting the walls red. I mean, a what a color, you know, and–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:58:30] But also blue. One of the other rooms, she was painting blue during the movie. 

June Diane Raphael [00:58:34] Okay. But she also found the book. 

Paul Scheer [00:58:38] Well, her finding the book. And then and then her trying to throw him off the scent. I don’t know. There’s something there. But you said that she also– so who hid the body? She hid the body. 

June Diane Raphael [00:58:50] She did. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:58:50] She hid the skeleton. She. She. I think she. And once she. Okay. So once Bud Cort slices his neck open in the mailbox facility and he says to her, go to the institute. You know, it’s. It’s. You’ll find it. Go find it. Go to the institute. So. And she pulls out of his pocket his I.D. card for Nathaniel. The Nathaniel Institute. Is that right? And his name? His name is Serious Leary. 

Paul Scheer [00:59:24] Right. Yeah, you’re right. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:59:26] Is Dr.. Seriously. 

Paul Scheer [00:59:27] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:59:29] I mean, his name is basically Dr.. Seriously? 

Paul Scheer [00:59:33] Oh, my God. 

June Diane Raphael [00:59:35] Oh, my gosh. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:59:37] So, so, so. But he and he has in his pocket, his hospital I.D. for when? So And she takes it and she goes to the Nathaniel Institute, which is covered in like razor wire and has clearly been shuttered for a decade at least, Right? 

Paul Scheer [00:59:57] Yes. Easily. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:59:58] Why is he still carrying his I.D. in his pocket? She walks right in. The light bulb is red. There are lit candles in this abandoned– I couldn’t make heads or tails out of any of this. Why? Why are there so many candles around that are lit? I’m assuming she lit them. Why is there a red light bulb? It’s fucking crazy. But anyway, she goes. She finds the locker, the foot locker that has all of her husband’s stuff. She finds the manuscript, she rips the paper off of the top secret and finds his name underneath. Right? So this is where she learns everything. Then she goes and she realizes he killed whoever, and she goes and takes the skeleton because she doesn’t want him to be caught. Is that what’s happening? 

June Diane Raphael [01:00:49] I do not know. I do not know. Because I’m not sure why she’s protecting him. Like, I don’t think– he called the cops. So protecting him from what, exactly? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:00:59] From the cops? 

June Diane Raphael [01:01:00] Okay, so at that point, she knows. But at that point, does she know he killed Laura? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:06] Someone. Yes, because she realizes he wrote this story. 

June Diane Raphael [01:01:08] Wow, what a wife then. Honestly. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:11] Yes. 

June Diane Raphael [01:01:12] You know? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:12] Relationship goals? 

June Diane Raphael [01:01:14] Truly like I– much respect. 

Paul Scheer [01:01:18] I’m reading through some interviews with the cast and I want to read you this. I feel like they all drank the Kool-Aid pretty early on because this is kind of interesting. It’s like Virginia Madsen is like, “I love this. The number 23. You know, there’s so many things in case you’re a doubter.” And then Carrie’s like, “Yeah, there’s there was a phenomenon on set, you know, if you know that my name and Schumacher’s name, you put them together as 23 letters.” And then Virgin Madsen goes, “Yeah, well, Danny Houston and I were married 23 years ago.” And, you know, and so, like, they’re, they’re all like, up. They, I think that they’ve lost the plot on set a little bit too. It’s like and I think what they’re all saying–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:02:07] Well yeah because that makes no sense because you– there can’t do is be like well yeah because Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman’s names together. Oh wait, no, those are okay. No, no. So not those ones. Okay, so how about, you know? 

Paul Scheer [01:02:19] This is what Joel Schumacher says. He’s like, “This is my 20th movie. I wish it was 23.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:02:31] And they do this thing where they say that he finally he sees the dog again. The dog takes him to the cemetery again, and then the priest comes out and says that the dog is the guardian of the dead. 

Paul Scheer [01:02:46] Well, that’s the devil dog. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:02:48] Or is it an angel dog? Is the dog helping solve and bring closure to this? 

Paul Scheer [01:02:54] All I know. 

June Diane Raphael [01:02:56] Why would this dog be a devil dog if– why would Laura be in hell? She didn’t do anything wrong. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:03] Yeah, Laura needs to be put to rest. And is the dog trying to bring closure to her restless soul? 

June Diane Raphael [01:03:08] First of all, all dogs are angel dogs. 

Paul Scheer [01:03:12] All dogs go to heaven. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:12] Okay. 

June Diane Raphael [01:03:13] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:14] All dogs go to heaven. Sure. Must love dogs. 

June Diane Raphael [01:03:16] Let’s be clear about that. 

Paul Scheer [01:03:18] Well, can we. Can we just say that I will talk about this and this is a very serious thing, actually. The dog did not show up to the premiere. I think that they did have a falling out. The dog did not like that way he was edited.

June Diane Raphael [01:03:30] Wow. Wow. 

Paul Scheer [01:03:32] And that is, of course. And we’re talking about Ned, who played Butch. And this is Butch’s acting debut. You know, he was very comfortable with the cast, you know, And even when he was being chased by Jim Carrey, you know, so Ned, great little work there by Ned. 

June Diane Raphael [01:03:47] I don’t know you guys this doesn’t you know it just doesn’t, no pun intended, add up. 

Paul Scheer [01:03:53] Oh, yeah. Remember when he tried to hit the dog, too? 

June Diane Raphael [01:03:56] Yeah. I was so upset. He literally. And what was that about exactly? What was that moment about? Why was he trying to kill the dog? 

Paul Scheer [01:04:05] Because I think the dog represents his his. If he didn’t get bit by the dog, he would have been on time to his birthday dinner and if he was on time to his birthday dinner. He would never have looked at the book. And his life would have been great. 

June Diane Raphael [01:04:15] All these things might be true, but like now we have to go kill that dog? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:04:19] And not only that, but why did we have to bring the family along for it? Like he brings his family along for killing dogs, digging up bodies. 

June Diane Raphael [01:04:30] Into the mailbox facility, watch a man slit his throat. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:04:34] It feels like they’re all with the with the same level of intent as like, let’s go play Pokémon Go together. 

June Diane Raphael [01:04:40] Yeah. Let’s do some geo caching or whatever. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:04:44] Yes, some geo caching by digging up the bones of a woman that I killed 20 years ago. Like, what is this? 

June Diane Raphael [01:04:51] Yeah, like it’s. It’s a team building. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:04:54] He’s a bad dad. 

June Diane Raphael [01:04:55] Yeah. 

Paul Scheer [01:04:55] Oh, my gosh. Well, obviously, we have opinions about this movie, and I want to bring you into the world of the people who love this movie, because now it is time now for second opinions. 

2nd Opinions Song [01:05:29] [Music] 

Paul Scheer [01:05:31] All right. These are five star reviews culled from Amazon. I might even start taking them from Letterbox as well, because these are pretty great. This one just starts out. Title is “Solid Movie. Jim Carrey made a good movie, but there is one flaw only. No reference to Michael Jordan. Who is number 23.” So there you go. But five stars nonetheless. 

June Diane Raphael [01:05:55] You know what five stars is. Two stars and three stars put together. 

Paul Scheer [01:05:59] Oh, you’re right. Wow. Look at that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:06:01] Holy shit. 

Paul Scheer [01:06:02] Customer writes, “I know for me, the movie seemed to drag a little. But when things aka, the truth starts to unfold, then it starts to make sense. And you will come to realize you may not have been paying attention. This is a movie you’re going to want to watch again because you need to watch it like The Sixth Sense. I first saw this movie when it came out, and this is only the second time I watched it, and I couldn’t remember how it ended. But I’m the type of person who likes knowing what’s going on. So like, I like spoilers and it helps me enjoy movies because, you know, if something doesn’t make sense right away, I’ll get bored. But that’s just me. This is a good movie, and if you’re like me, I would say, be patient and watch and it will all make sense. Five stars. Suspense. Dot. Dot, dot. Pay attention.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:06:47] Guys, I just realized something that’s really fucking me up. I watched this movie on Amazon Prime. 

Paul Scheer [01:06:56] Okay. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:06:57] And 23 is a prime number. It’s fucking real. Here we go. 

Paul Scheer [01:07:06] All right. I have two quick ones here. This is from Dominic Calandra, “My name is Dominic. Joseph Calandra. If you count the spaces as characters, there are 23 characters in my name. I was born on 12/17/93. It adds up to 23. Or if you prefer 12 plus 17 minus 9 plus 3 is equal to 23. I took the time right after the character turns to look at the clock, his said 11:12, mine said 9:23. Checked it again later in the movie at a random time. What time is it? 9:59 add it up. I had a friend who was born on March 23rd. We have 23 mutual Facebook friends. She said she couldn’t remember a large amount of her childhood. I never found out why, exactly. Coincidences? But Jesus, that’s weird. Stay safe. Five stars.” Am I Topsy Kretts? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:07:48] Stay safe. Am I Topsy Kretts? 

June Diane Raphael [01:07:53] I’ll never forget Topsy Kretts. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:07:56] Doctor Serious Leary and Topsy Kretts. This is some next level nonsense. 

June Diane Raphael [01:08:01] This is absurd. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:08:03] I feel like this movie is a prank. 

Paul Scheer [01:08:05] That’s what I’m saying it plays at parts like it is a prank. 

June Diane Raphael [01:08:10] I feel utterly ill. I really don’t feel well.

Jason Mantzoukas [01:08:18] Topsy Kretts is some next level stuff. 

Paul Scheer [01:08:23] Like because you also feel like they like. But this is also we have to just briefly just mention like Joel Schumacher. I feel like he’s like “Yeah, Topsy Kretts. I like it.” Like, like I feel like it’s like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, he’s so crazy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:08:34] That’s crazy because it’s like, that’s not a name. Topsy?  

Paul Scheer [01:08:42] Topsy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:08:44] Like, Topsy Kretts. What are you talking about it’s not a name? Of course it is, it’s Topsy Kretts, you know, my, you know, my very serious girlfriend, Topsy Kretts, right? 

Paul Scheer [01:08:53] Have it written by Anonymous. Oh, my gosh. The tagline for this movie, “The truth will find you.” “First it takes hold of your mind.” Another one, “First it takes hold of your mind. Then it takes hold of your life.” Or finally, the other tagline, “A number is just a number. Or is it?”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:09:12] What’s amazing is that Bud Cort, Doctor Serious Leary is also still crazy. He having the manuscript that says by Jim Carrey’s character name. I can’t remember what it is. He put. He puts Topsy Kretts over it. So he invents the name Topsy Kretts. That’s, so he must I mean, like, he’s like, well, the name should be top secret, but I can’t just say top secret. Topsy Kretts? It’s okay. That. I want to know what that journey is. 

Paul Scheer [01:09:47] I mean, it feels like a dumb person trying to be clever. And I say that in the nicest way. It’s like top secret because it’s also like it’s not a top secret that his like, Topsy Kretts is not that. It’s like what it should be. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:09:59] Did any of us think of it? We saw the name and heard the name over and over again. And it wasn’t until that prison scene where where the guy goes, “Yeah, the author, top secret.” That I was like, Oh, no, no. 

Paul Scheer [01:10:13] I. I mean, because my thought would be, the better take on it would be that it’s his name, right like Walter Sparrow and you anagram that like you know or Sparrows Nest, or Sparrows Brain. You know some version of his name like I am Walter Sparrow, you know. But we have but, you know, it’s like I don’t even know how it would be, but it’s like it’s not top secret. It’s not top secret. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:10:40] It’s ridiculous. 

Paul Scheer [01:10:41] Folks, this is a fun one. I mean, wow. And it represents to me. 

June Diane Raphael [01:10:48] I have a headache. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:10:49] Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:10:51] Because it’s unfinished. Because you you, you didn’t get closure. 

Paul Scheer [01:10:57] God. All right. Well, at that point. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:11:00] Thanks a lot, Paul. 

Paul Scheer [01:11:01] Sorry, guys. Thank you, Avril. Anyone want to want to plug anything that they got? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:11:07] I will plug, and this is not a plug, but it is just a full throated, full hearted recommendation. The movie of the year. Paul, you told me about it. I’ve watched it. It’s called Plane and it is fucking incredible. 

Paul Scheer [01:11:20] June and I saw that in the theater. It was so fun. There’s a part of me that is like, Should we do that on this show? Only because I would love to just talk about it and maybe we should. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:11:32] Let’s revel in it. 

Paul Scheer [01:11:33] It’s on VOD and oh my gosh. And again, it just a giant shout out to Gerard Butler for giving us that amazing Geostorm. You can see it on all of our socials. I love that he did that during the Plane premiere. But yeah, if you are interested in Plane, let us know on the Discord or on Social and maybe we should just tackle it. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:11:49] It’s fantastic. I was having a blast. It was great. 

Paul Scheer [01:11:55] It’s like a solid movie. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:11:56] Yeah. Oh, it’s. It’s terrific. I loved every goddamned minute of it. Please put me in Plane 2. We just want to be in Planes. 

Paul Scheer [01:12:05] Well, by the way, I want to go. I want to go this way where we can get into it bigger. But I think there needs to be a prequel or sequel with skarsgard. I want to see Mike Colter do his– that’s another movie. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:12:19] His Foreign Legion service or I would be into what happens next for him as well, wherever he goes next. 

Paul Scheer [01:12:26] Amen. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:12:27] Got it. I thought he was fantastic as well. Absolutely. 

Paul Scheer [01:12:30] What else are you up to, Jason? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:12:32] I want to. Oh, you know what I want to plug. I did two recent appearances on some other terrific podcasts that I want to get out there. I was a guest on the fantastic Earwolf podcast TV, I say, with Ashley Rae, which is a fantastic show. I did a great year, if you like, the recommendation episodes that Paul and I do on the Last Looks. This was a year end recommendation list with me and Ashley Rae. It’s a fantastic show. And then I just did an episode of our friend Kulap Vilaysack has a wonderful, and SuChin Pak have a wonderful podcast called Add to Cart. And I just did a whole episode. That is no joke, everybody, a secret pilot for Zoox. 

Paul Scheer [01:13:17] By the way, first of all, upset that you did Zoox off of the How Did This Get Made main feed. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:13:24] I’m sorry. I mean, let’s be honest, it’s not really Zoox. It’s fun. 

Paul Scheer [01:13:28] You gave me a cube for my birthday. I’m so excited about it. But it opened my mind to what a cube is. And maybe in Last Looks, we should talk about it a little bit, because I need to understand. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:13:40] Did you notice that it stands flat when you open it? 

Paul Scheer [01:13:42] Yeah. And this is not how I. Because what my cubes have been are simply just. By the way, if you’re not hearing June’s voice, she’s not just sitting here quietly. She had to go. They’re just like little formless bags. That’s what the cubes I’ve been working with. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:13:59] Well, that what I gave you is more of something to carry. Like, you know, it’s. It’s got a little bit of padding, it’s got a little bit of organization. So that is more for like I have one of those that I try when I travel with like an Apple TV and some cords and a camera and it’s like because it has a little bit of padding, I put like electronics in that cube. 

Paul Scheer [01:14:24] I want to hear I’m going to listen and to Add to Cart. Add to Cart is a great show. It’s super fun. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:14:28] Add to cart is a blast. And I just, they ask people to to bring products or things that they like or enjoy and want to talk about. And so I just took the opportunity to talk about backpacks and packing cubes and my favorite card game, Monopoly Deal which I also gave you. 

Paul Scheer [01:14:47] Which is amazing. And I got to play that with my kids. I will tell you that the thing that you’ve gotten our family hooked on is Flushing Frenzy, which is a which is basically a toilet roulette. You roll the dice, you crank a toilet and then you plunge it. And then you lose by when the poop shoots out and it’s literally a poop with eyes. It’s the best game. 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:15:10] It is a game that the game item is a toilet that you plunge and a poop shoots out the top and whoever catches the poop gets the point. Come on. That’s a fucking great game. 

Paul Scheer [01:15:23] Now, I will. I will also just talk about a podcast I was on, and I want to ask your question. I want to ask you a question about it. So I did Dax Shepard’s podcast. They love you. Love you. Yes, they talk so highly of you. I’ve never been reached out to more in my life about being on a podcast than I was after that show. Did you find that, too? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:15:49] Yes, absolutely. Like, like my cousins reached out to me. People who people who I don’t think have ever listened to any other podcast. Listen to that podcast. 

Paul Scheer [01:15:58] You know, I think that we do this show for such a long time that, like, no one tells us like, Hey, I heard your show or whatever. So it’s nice when when you hear like feedback that it doesn’t just go into the ether. All right, so that is it. Jason I think I’m going to take your challenge and we’re going to make Bud Cort’s crazy room. Or maybe should it be doctor serious? 

Jason Mantzoukas [01:16:20] Doctor Serious Leary? 

Paul Scheer [01:16:21] Or Doctor Serious Leary’s crazy room, which maybe, like, make it like a bar shirt. Like it’s a, like, almost like, like an advertising for a bar or something. Yeah, maybe that’s the way to go. So check out teepublic there. And people, make sure you listen to Last Looks because we got some big surprises coming up. We always have good special guests. Jason and I are breaking down a lot of stuff into cubes and the podcast, everything. And a big thank you to our entire team. I’m talking about the amazing producorial work of Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer Avril Halley, our engineer Alex Gonzalez, and our publisher July Diaz. People, they make the trains run and we love them. So we’ll see you next week for Last Looks. And until then, bye for now.