EP. 353 — Troll

[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: Harry Potter, get your Ratburgers, because it’s time to swing with goblins, nymphs, and Sonny Bono. We saw Troll, so you know what that means.

[00:00:11] Music: Now it’s time for How Did This Get Made? Come and have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, cause you know you wonder how Did This Get Made?

[00:00:20] Let’s wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we’ll find the answer to the question, How Did This Get Made?

[00:00:29] Paul Scheer: Hello, people of earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made today. We are talking about the 1986 film Troll. Is it a child’s movie? Is it a horror movie? I don’t know. We’ll break it all down, but all you need to know is,

[00:00:48] a family moves into an apartment building in San Francisco when a girl is immediately embodied by an evil troll who used to be a king but wants to get back to a world of fairies. I think. Anyway, we’ll break it all down in just a bit. But first, let me introduce my co host in the studio for the first time in over a year, Welcome, Jason Manzoukas and June Diane Raphael.

[00:01:15] Wow.

[00:01:15] Welcome both.

[00:01:16] A year? That seems

[00:01:18] Jason Mantzoukas: impossible.

[00:01:19] Paul Scheer: A year ago, we were talking about Al Pacino and The Hangman. And now we’re talking about Harry Potter and Harry Potter Jr.

[00:01:30] Jason Mantzoukas: The Harry Potter stuff and Harry Potter Jr. I really couldn’t deal with in the movie. It was so funny to me that characters kept saying Harry Potter, Jr.

[00:01:41] Yes. The

[00:01:42] Paul Scheer: two characters, the father and son in this film are Harry Potter, Sr. And a Harry Potter, Jr. And. It’s said so many times and obviously this is made in 1986, but it feels like they’re like nudging you like you get the joke like Harry Potter , but it’s not a joke because clearly Harry Potter hasn’t been invented yet.

[00:02:04] That’s what

[00:02:04] June Diane Raphael: was so strange about it. And it had me thinking like, is Harry Potter a funny name in and of itself? Like it was hard to know what they were going for.

[00:02:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it’s also hard to reconcile. Um, and maybe this is a question for JK Rowling, uh, hard to reconcile that this was a magic based wizards and trolls world.

[00:02:29] The lead characters of which were named Harry Potter, like did JK Rowling see this movie and then just do a slight rewrite?

[00:02:38] Well, this is an accusation that has been going around.

[00:02:42] Paul Scheer: Oh, wait, has it

[00:02:43] Jason Mantzoukas: really?

[00:02:44] Yes.

[00:02:45] That’s why

[00:02:46] June Diane Raphael: JK was canceled.

[00:02:47] It has

[00:02:49] Jason Mantzoukas: nothing to do with her very controversial takes. It is simply because of, it’s just plagiarism.

[00:02:55] People get put

[00:02:55] June Diane Raphael: up with her transphobia, but they will not stand for this theft.

[00:03:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, this, this, these are, this is a story that exists. How dare she take it over? How dare she try and make it hers?

[00:03:09] June Diane Raphael: Here’s what’s interesting. I was trying to look up something about Troll, not Trolls.

[00:03:15] Right.

[00:03:15] And it’s, it’s shocking how many troll movies there are out

[00:03:20] Jason Mantzoukas: there.

[00:03:20] Well, I remember troll to being a big Curtis and John Curtis Gwynn and John Gemberling doing screenings of Troll 2 or something like that back in New York.

[00:03:32] June Diane Raphael: That’s yes, yes, yes. Didn’t we do Troll 2?

[00:03:36] Paul Scheer: We’ve never done Troll 2 but guess what? We will be doing Troll 2.

[00:03:40] What? For our next episode. Next episode?

[00:03:42] What?

[00:03:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Is it troll summer?

[00:03:45] It is troll summer.

[00:03:46] June Diane Raphael: Hot troll summer.

[00:03:48] Paul Scheer: Back

[00:03:49] to troll.

[00:03:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, it’s for the fall? It’s not for the summer?

[00:03:54] Paul Scheer: Well, I guess it’s

[00:03:54] August, you know.

[00:03:56] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s spring forward, troll back.

[00:03:58] June Diane Raphael: It’s a part of sweeps?

[00:04:00] Paul Scheer: Yes, we’re finally attacking the troll franchise. But you’re right, like, there are so many troll movies and all of them seemingly unrelated to each other.

[00:04:09] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, June, you know what we did? Leprechaun. We did a leprechaun, which I feel like you could maybe get a you could maybe feel like they were connected.

[00:04:19] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Because

[00:04:22] I for a minute thought when you said we were going to do the next troll. I thought Jennifer Aniston was in that, but that’s a leprechaun too.

[00:04:28] Paul Scheer: That’s

[00:04:28] a

[00:04:28] leprechaun.

[00:04:29] Yes, not leprechaun to but leprechaun. Now, I will say there are some insane things that are going on because the people who were involved in this movie. Uh, accused JK of stealing, uh, the Harry Potter name. Like that’s all she did. She stole that because this boy is not magic. Uh, the girl, if anything is magic, but anyway, they are trying to like, Oh yeah.

[00:04:56] I mean, that, that’s a true thing. The producer has accused, uh, JK of stealing certain elements of, uh, this film,

[00:05:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Which is, which is, I’m assuming because Eunice Sinclair is a witch.

[00:05:12] Paul Scheer: Yes. Um,

[00:05:13] he says that she borrowed elements from Troll and J K says, uh, no, it just

[00:05:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, JK replied?

[00:05:21] Paul Scheer: She replied.

[00:05:21] She said the

[00:05:22] idea just came to her, but the producer, John Bookler says, I don’t think so.

[00:05:27] And as a matter of fact, uh, John Booker now is striking back in 2012. He was like, I’m going to remake the original Troll film, and it would be the same plot as troll, but the, but the name of it was going to be Turok, the troll, one child shall save the world, which is very much trying to be like

[00:05:49] Harry Potter.

[00:05:49] Jason Mantzoukas: I wonder, could you, could they call. Because they had the Harry Potter name in Troll first, could they call a new Troll movie Harry Potter’s Revenge? Or Harry Potter

[00:06:00] Junior?

[00:06:00] Paul Scheer: Well, this is the thing.

[00:06:02] June Diane Raphael: Harry Potter

[00:06:02] Junior Junior?

[00:06:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Harry

[00:06:03] Potter Junior Junior’s Revenge?

[00:06:06] Paul Scheer: In August of, uh, 2011, there was another, uh, prequel reported called Troll.

[00:06:13] The rise of Harry Potter jr. Uh, with an animated series, the film was going to have Patricia Arquette.

[00:06:21] June Diane Raphael: I know you’re reading from something, but sometimes I seriously, this is a bit of an aside, but I seriously worry like I, cause I believe all these facts that you’re saying right now will stay with you the rest of your life.

[00:06:33] Paul Scheer: Oh, yes.

[00:06:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Be like, it would be like usual suspect in that we reversed on Paul and realized he wasn’t reading off of anything. He was just reciting everything from memory or making it all up.

[00:06:44] June Diane Raphael: But this is, you will never not know this and I will forget it as soon as I press end on the Zoom.

[00:06:51] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t know what we’re talking about.

[00:06:52] I don’t even remember tabula

[00:06:56] rasa

[00:06:58] Paul Scheer: Before we started recording, we, we talked about how the last in studio episode we did was, was the Al Pacino movie, which neither of you remembered. Only producer Molly.

[00:07:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Zero. I have zero

[00:07:08] recollection.

[00:07:09] June Diane Raphael: I have a vague memory. I have a very vague memory, but my, the memory I have of that movie is

[00:07:15] simply a sketch of a hangman,

[00:07:18] Jason Mantzoukas: And I keep thinking of snowman. I think that’s a different, that’s, that’s the other, Oh my God. We’ve done that. It’s Jack Frost. It’s over for us. RIP us. It’s over. No, no. Snowman. Snowman is the one where it’s like, Hey, Mr. Policeman, where it’s like the bad guy.

[00:07:41] And that

[00:07:41] Paul Scheer: Harry hole.

[00:07:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Doesn’t that also have a hangman’s drawing or I guess it’s just a snowman

[00:07:46] June Diane Raphael: Is this just a recap episode?

[00:07:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Of the podcast ?

[00:07:52] Paul Scheer: This is us just going back. I mean.

[00:07:54] Jason Mantzoukas: This is a, how did this get made clip show where we just try and remember past episodes.

[00:08:01] June Diane Raphael: Honestly, that’s a great, by the way, that is a great idea.

[00:08:04] I want to talk about. Cause the very beginning of the movie, it actually, the movie is book ended with an incredibly important visual piece of imagery. And that is Harry Potter seniors bucket hat.

[00:08:18] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s huge. My it’s a massive component to end of the film as are bucket hats in general, because numerous other people are also wearing buckets.

[00:08:26] June Diane Raphael: I didn’t realize that Jason, but I, I was obsessed with that bucket hat and how it, perched on his head. It didn’t go over anything. It didn’t.

[00:08:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Here’s my question.

[00:08:38] Do you think that was Michael Moriarty being like, I got to wear this hat? Like, is that an actor’s choice? Because it’s so unlike the rest of his wardrobe.

[00:08:47] Yes. It’s like a fisherman’s hat, or it’s like a weird, a weird hat on top of what he’s normally wearing, which is like a sweater and chinos, you know what I mean?

[00:08:55] June Diane Raphael: Here’s the

[00:08:55] problem though with his character. I mean, I could talk about Harry Potter Sr. for roughly two hours. His character, the guy who wears that bucket hat to just drive in.

[00:09:06] It’s the only time we see him wear it is when he’s moving in to that apartment. And when he’s, I think, moving out, cause they have.

[00:09:14] Paul Scheer: It’s also in the fire

[00:09:15] alarm scene, which is where they introduce every character over the sound of a blaring alarm bell, which is crazy. I know they talk about Pope in the pool where you’re trying to hide exposition with something interesting on screen, but

[00:09:28] don’t try to hide exposition where a loud noise is going off. Like they literally introduce every character over a loud alarm bell.

[00:09:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Also during

[00:09:37] that scene, they also have competitive sounds happening. Like the music in the guy’s Walkman is happening at the same time as the alarm, which is happening at the same time as the shot conversation.

[00:09:48] June Diane Raphael: Well, but what I was going to say about Bucket Hat is that Bucket Hat, Bucket Hat dad is the same dad who takes a break in the middle of the day to dance.

[00:09:58] Jason Mantzoukas: To rock out.

[00:09:59] June Diane Raphael: To dance in socks.

[00:10:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Now, here’s the thing. They talk about them moving 3, 000 records into that apartment. Which, let me be clear, I have no problem with.

[00:10:10] That’s not my problem.

[00:10:11] Paul Scheer: I was gonna say that’s a

[00:10:12] little less than what you have, right?

[00:10:14] Jason Mantzoukas: That

[00:10:14] is probably a little bit less. Now that being to be clear, though, we never see the records. We never see a record player. We don’t.

[00:10:21] Paul Scheer: We do.

[00:10:22] June Diane Raphael: We do.

[00:10:22] Paul Scheer: We

[00:10:23] do. They’re dusting the records.

[00:10:24] June Diane Raphael: Malcolm points them out.

[00:10:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:10:26] Because when he’s dancing around, there’s no speakers. There’s no record playing. You don’t see anything. He’s just dancing to loud rock music.

[00:10:34] Paul Scheer: And by the way,

[00:10:36] why that many records when he is a. Book reviewer for a local paper like like his job isn’t just make him a music reviewer. Why not?

[00:10:46] June Diane Raphael: He’s also a

[00:10:46] writer, Paul.

[00:10:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yes.

[00:10:49] Paul Scheer: Oh, he’s a writer as well. He’s a great writer. Okay, got it I thought he was I thought he just reviewed books.

[00:10:54] Jason Mantzoukas: I

[00:10:55] think he very well may just review books for work I think he’s an aspiring Novelist as all men of this generation were I believe.

[00:11:04] June Diane Raphael: That’s right

[00:11:04] Jason Mantzoukas: They all thought they were going to write the great american novel like before work.

[00:11:08] June Diane Raphael: That’s

[00:11:09] right.

[00:11:09] And also I

[00:11:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, eat shit

[00:11:11] boomers.

[00:11:12] June Diane Raphael: I do think that, you know, there’s a lot of artists who, you know, get inspiration from various mediums.

[00:11:21] Paul Scheer: Sure.

[00:11:22] June Diane Raphael: I had no problem with him getting inspired by music. I just couldn’t make heads or tails.

[00:11:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Well,

[00:11:30] here’s the thing. That

[00:11:32] specific scene, that specific scene, did it feel like he and other people were starting to be influenced by the magics that were going on?

[00:11:41] It felt like he was dancing with an abandon that he didn’t quite understand and that his wife found strange. She keeps looking at him like, what’s he up to?

[00:11:50] Paul Scheer: I disagree.

[00:11:51] I think that this is him and he and his wife is like, Oh, that music is too loud. And then she looks at him and she’s like, ah. He’s having fun.

[00:12:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay, that’s fine.

[00:12:04] June Diane Raphael: No, I didn’t know why that scene was in there. I didn’t either. The only thing I could like make sense of, it’s like our minds, you know, in our most primitive state, we have to make meaning, you know, we have to make stories. And so I was like, well, okay, I think that what we’re learning here is he is so so he is so sort of distracted in his own world that he doesn’t realize his daughter is a troll.

[00:12:31] Like that’s the only thing that I could buy.

[00:12:33] Paul Scheer: That. You see, I, I find that he, yeah, that his idea is like, he’s so such a free spirit that his daughter acting. Yeah, absolutely insane. He’s like, Oh, that’s my daughter. I’m like that too, because listen to this.

[00:13:01] That music. It’s not music that you dance to. I thought that that was the, the weird thing about it. It’s like he’s doing like a twist it’s, but it’s also kind of, you know, it’s heavier

[00:13:11] Jason Mantzoukas: What’s interesting too, because it’s a cover of Ain’t No Cure For The Summertime Blues, but it’s like a real punk, rocky, noisy version of it.

[00:13:17] Right. which is incongruous in every way, shape and form to Michael Moriarty, who you might know as I do, uh, as the first, um, district attorney on the Law Order franchise. He, for the first number of seasons, is the district attorney on Law Order. And, you know, as someone who is.

[00:13:36] June Diane Raphael: He was

[00:13:36] let go because of erratic behavior.

[00:13:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep, and

[00:13:39] Paul Scheer: Wait, the district

[00:13:40] attorney or Michael

[00:13:41] Moriarty?

[00:13:41] Jason Mantzoukas: No, no, Michael Moriarty.

[00:13:43] Paul Scheer: Okay. I didn’t know if they went that path.

[00:13:47] Jason Mantzoukas: So he’s, he seems like such a straight laced guy. So yes, you’re right, June, the bucket hat and the weird music choices, they don’t work at all for who he appears.

[00:13:55] Paul Scheer: He’s in a sweater

[00:13:57] and a button down rocking out to a punk version of Ain’t No Cure for the Summertime Blues blissed out.

[00:14:07] I mean, I haven’t, I don’t know.

[00:14:08] June Diane Raphael: Can I tell you another, another piece of the story that I had to tell myself because I didn’t know why they were moving. I might’ve missed it in the beginning, but I thought, Oh, he is taken some real artistic risks. He’s put the family in financial jeopardy. They were in a nice suburb and a house with a lawn and a backyard, and they have had to majorly downgrade to this apartment building.

[00:14:33] Because of his mania.

[00:14:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. And I would believe that I would believe that I would believe that because really the movie happens to this family.

[00:14:45] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:14:46] June Diane Raphael: Cause you don’t do, we don’t find out why they’ve moved.

[00:14:48] Paul Scheer: The

[00:14:49] inciting incident happens mere seconds after it begins, right?

[00:14:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Like it is the

[00:14:55] movie. I will say, as opposed to other movies we’ve done, the movie doesn’t take long to get to what’s going on, but what it does take a long time, an hour and five minutes to do is give you any exposition, give you any rules, any.

[00:15:10] Any information regarding the trolls, and it takes us literally at an hour and five minutes. Uh, Harry Potter Jr. walks into Uni St. Clair’s apartment, I believe Jessica St. Clair’s, uh, grandmother I would call familiar. Um,

[00:15:22] June Diane Raphael: And that was Jessica St. Clair, who played the younger version of her.

[00:15:25] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s her daughter though,

[00:15:26] actually.

[00:15:26] Paul Scheer: Yeah, that’s

[00:15:26] June Lockhart

[00:15:27] and Ann Lockhart,

[00:15:28] June Lockhart.

[00:15:28] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s, those are,

[00:15:29] that, are those are mother daughter pair which I, which I only saw when the credits rolled. I was like, wow.

[00:15:34] Paul Scheer: Wait. But June Lockhart is, uh, a

[00:15:36] famous.

[00:15:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, yes she is. Um. She’s, uh, the beaver’s mom, right?

[00:15:40] Paul Scheer: No, that’s the beaver.

[00:15:42] June Diane Raphael: That’s what I

[00:15:42] was named after.

[00:15:43] Paul Scheer: Oh, wait, no. June Lockhart was, um,

[00:15:46] in Lost in Space and Lassie. Lost in Space. And Petticoat Junction.

[00:15:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Lost in was for me. Yes. Yeah. Anyway, so he, he goes in and she has like, they’ve met numerous times already. Uh, Harry Potter Jr. and Yuna Sinclair. They’ve met numerous times.

[00:16:02] Paul Scheer: At one point, uh, Harry Potter Jr.

[00:16:04] just

[00:16:04] comes into her

[00:16:06] apartment to puke.

[00:16:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep. Wait.

[00:16:08] Paul Scheer: He lives only a flight down.

[00:16:10] Jason Mantzoukas: He’s like, she’s always got hot chocolate made. Uh, which is weird, but anyway, she then proceeds to walk him through like an illustrated manuscript, like an illuminated tome of that is the story of the trolls and the fairies. Like, we, she has all the information we need to understand the movie.

[00:16:28] Why doesn’t she tell it to us earlier? Like it, it doesn’t benefit us because we’re trying to do what June is trying to do, which is trying to make sense of what’s happening.

[00:16:40] Paul Scheer: All we know, in the first moments of this movie is that a young girl goes to play with her ball in the communal laundry room when, when she is enveloped or like a troll embodies her, it’s like she’s in the troll and the troll is inside her.

[00:17:00] Like they are two as one.

[00:17:03] Jason Mantzoukas: So

[00:17:03] much better if and maybe this is in there and I just missed it. If she found that ring, um, put it on.

[00:17:09] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:17:09] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s what was the, um, that’s what I mean, the inciting incident, but what that’s the bit of magic transference that happens because the way it unfolds is just there’s a troll.

[00:17:20] There’s her. And now there’s her acting like the troll. And we assume the troll is now taken over her corporeal form.

[00:17:26] June Diane Raphael: Well, first of all, her body is the troll did not jump into her body. We’ll learn that later. Her body is just asleep in a box.

[00:17:34] Paul Scheer: In a glass coffin.

[00:17:36] June Diane Raphael: In a glass

[00:17:36] coffin. But the hard, the tough thing is that What’s that?

[00:17:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Sleeping Beauty style.

[00:17:42] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:17:42] June Diane Raphael: Yes, Sleeping Beauty style.

[00:17:43] Paul Scheer: It’s

[00:17:43] a movie

[00:17:44] for kids.

[00:17:44] June Diane Raphael: Yes, it is.

[00:17:45] But, but the really weird thing about this movie too is we didn’t get to know who she was right without being a troll. We are just watching the same girl. Yes. And I’m like, this seems like who she I don’t know another version.

[00:18:01] I have no point of comparison.

[00:18:03] Paul Scheer: When

[00:18:03] she when the parents first noticed the girl is acting weird. She is devouring a rat burger. Um, The movie starts off with.

[00:18:12] June Diane Raphael: What does that

[00:18:12] mean, by the way ?

[00:18:13] Paul Scheer: That’s what Michael Moriarty says, like,

[00:18:16] Jason Mantzoukas: He’s calling, they’re getting hamburgers, they’re calling them wrap burgers.

[00:18:19] I can’t tell if that’s the name of the place they’re getting them from or if’s the, not if that’s the, the family’s nickname, funny nickname for hamburgers is rat burgers.

[00:18:29] Paul Scheer: I mean,

[00:18:29] that’s a terrible nickname for

[00:18:31] June Diane Raphael: Horrible.

[00:18:32] Paul Scheer: Like, it, it sounds like.

[00:18:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Well,

[00:18:33] especially with the way they get them, whatever they call it, fully loaded or whatever, it looks disgusting.

[00:18:38] Paul Scheer: Oh, so. She

[00:18:41] is eating

[00:18:41] it like, like, uh, like a troll, I guess a troll who loves, uh, rat burgers. I mean.

[00:18:46] Jason Mantzoukas: At that point from the moment, let me, I just want to be clear. I’m clear on something from the minute the movie begins and the laundry room switch happens. We’re assuming that that Wendy Ann, it’s also strange that in this era of movies, horror adjacent movies, They’re all about little kids in troubles, in trouble.

[00:19:06] And they’re all like little blonde girls who are named like, this is Wendy Anne and it’s, isn’t it Carol Ann in Poltergeist, which is the exact same

[00:19:15] archetype.

[00:19:16] Paul Scheer: The director was giving a little wink to. Anne from Poltergeist and Wendy from Peter Pan. Mash up. And I do have a theory here.

[00:19:25] Jason Mantzoukas: So then it’s going to go for it.

[00:19:26] Okay.

[00:19:26] That makes sense. But anyway, it’s so weird. So we’re to assume that from the laundry room forward, the little girl is in none of the movie. It’s just the troll in little girl. Like, um, uh, you know, magic, right?

[00:19:39] Paul Scheer: I thought the same thing too, but then I watched the special features where the director spoke about

[00:19:45] why this girl was the perfect choice he said because many actresses came in many actresses brought a very dour dark side of themselves to the audition. He’s like, no, no, no, that is not right. Jenny Beck still kept her own sense of self and he was saying that Turok the the troll basically is puppeteering her that he has access to all of her memories, her relationships, like, like, that’s why Turok isn’t confused about where the bedroom is or who the brother is.

[00:20:19] So it’s sort of like there are two people inside, even though she’s sleeping in a glass case in another room, he is, uh, puppeteering a guy, but he’s got access. It’s like he’s, he’s got the GPS. He could see where she’s been. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t understand it more than

[00:20:38] that.

[00:20:39] Jason Mantzoukas: At the end of the day, I, I would have enjoyed the movie more.

[00:20:42] And this movie was very fun. And I can see why it’s perfect for the show. I would have enjoyed it more if I just had more, if I knew more rules, if I understood the rules that existed for all these people, it would have been more fun to watch them play around inside of the, because once like the only exteriors are at the very beginning, when they’re moving in and the very end, when they’re moving out. The rest of the movie, takes place inside the apartment building only.

[00:21:06] Paul Scheer: And

[00:21:06] probably

[00:21:07] because this movie was shot in Rome.

[00:21:09] Yes.

[00:21:18] This movie was shot in Rome, the San Francisco film about an apartment building, which, so they only really had about two exterior shots. Uh, once.

[00:21:27] June Diane Raphael: I actually, I love a movie that just deals with the tenants of an apartment building.

[00:21:36] Paul Scheer: That’s why you love Melrose place.

[00:21:38] June Diane Raphael: I love Melrose place. I also love Mixed Nuts, you know, my favorite Christmas movie. Yeah. Um.

[00:21:47] Paul Scheer: Steve Martin talking about

[00:21:49] Mixed Nuts in the Steve Martin documentary is amazing. He’s like

[00:21:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Another, by the way, two iconically strange Julia Lee Dreyfus performances. Yes. Mixed Nuts. And this movie.

[00:22:02] June Diane Raphael: Oh, of course. She plays that.

[00:22:04] The tree lady, which on the.

[00:22:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Rollerblading.

[00:22:06] June Diane Raphael: She’s amazing.

[00:22:07] Paul Scheer: She’s great. Um, Steve Martin does say in Steve, uh, the documentary, uh, the two part documentary, which is fantastic. He’s like, when I saw that poster of Mixed Nuts, when I was driving down Wilshire Boulevard with my head and that Santa cap on, I thought, Oh no, this is not good.

[00:22:27] June Diane Raphael: Well, that’s really hurtful. Cause that’s my favorite, my favorite Christmas.

[00:22:30] Paul Scheer: Yeah,

[00:22:31] I know. Yeah.

[00:22:32] June Diane Raphael: Um, but so, so I love that. I love the idea of like. Oh, all these people living in close quarters, living such different lives, getting smashed together for different reasons. Like that is my, I love that type of movie.

[00:22:46] This was so difficult because I didn’t know why they were being turned into the trolls. They were being turned into . There was no.

[00:22:57] Jason Mantzoukas: How does that make sense then? Like, if I was that even a thing.

[00:23:01] June Diane Raphael: But it would be a much better movie if, like, the guy who lives across the street from the Potters, who is super into, you know, former Marines, super into bodybuilding, like, if he was a specific type of troll, if he was made a very overweight troll, or some, I didn’t know why they were, and then I also had no idea why Malcolm’s troll

[00:23:28] was simply Malcolm.

[00:23:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Like a little, you know, an elf, though, an elf way. Malcolm is the professor,

[00:23:34] right?

[00:23:35] He becomes an elf. He’s got elf ears.

[00:23:40] Paul Scheer: Just to back it up here, the elves or not the elf, the troll’s plan. As we understand later after really like a four page, uh, you know, monologue from June Lockhart is to turn each apartment into a different fantasy realm, even though they all look exactly alike, which is just forest full of nymphs and goblins and fairies.

[00:24:06] And if he was to turn all the apartments into the fantasy realm, he could bring back the fantasy world that he once was a part of, because he was a king who was married to June Lockhart, who then was turned into a troll after a war between the trolls and the humans. But I have no idea why it’s all happening in San Francisco.

[00:24:30] And why, why, why now?

[00:24:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Why now? Yes, why now? I hear why. Why? Just a why. Why

[00:24:38] any of this and also why even this much explanation that is given, which is the exposition dump that we’re talking about happening over an hour into the movie makes that previous hour absolutely bizarre.

[00:24:52] June Diane Raphael: Inexplicable. Well, I also found it very strange.

[00:24:56] The June Lockhart, when she reveals that the troll is her, her husband, who’s seeking revenge because he was turned into a troll. She doesn’t have any sympathy for him. Yeah. Like there’s no love lost between the two of them. And I was like, well, he, he was captured and turned into a troll. That wasn’t his fault.

[00:25:17] Jason Mantzoukas: No, I think he was turned into a troll because he was being evil. He was trying to like, be a bad guy. Oh, maybe that’s okay. This is the, this is the story I had decided because out of confusion was that, that he had taken a turn towards evil. So they had rebelled against him, turned him into a troll and, um, her and the mushroom

[00:25:38] plant.

[00:25:39] June Diane Raphael: We gotta talk

[00:25:40] about the mushroom plant.

[00:25:40] Jason Mantzoukas: We gotta talk about, uh, gal Galloway, Gallway or whatever the, the mushroom plant. Again, because the mushroom plant exists in this, in multiple scenes before it’s explained. She’s just sitting there painting and there is an obvious mushroom plant with a face on it next to her.

[00:26:00] Paul Scheer: Who speaks like this.

[00:26:04] Like, like, what, what.

[00:26:06] Jason Mantzoukas: What are we doing? What?

[00:26:07] Paul Scheer: And, and by the way. All of this, I could accept if any of the apartment layouts looked normal. I mean, the apartments, the layout here, whoever designed these apartments did a terrible job. I mean, there, there are walls where they don’t need to be. They also look like just large areas where.

[00:26:27] Jason Mantzoukas: You look at the exterior and it’s like a small apartment building that probably has four apartments on each floor or something like that.

[00:26:36] When you cut into these apartments, these apartments are like. 6, 200 square feet each. Every apartment is enormous.

[00:26:44] Paul Scheer: And

[00:26:44] mostly living spaces. I mean, like, I mean, when you go into the army guys room, the army guys main entrance leads into an African safari room where it looks like it is fully, it’s just a giant desk, giant chairs.

[00:27:00] You know, there are, uh, skinned animals, African art on the walls. There doesn’t look like there’s anything else here, but like, Uh, like a table that looks almost like a pool table that he is like, that’s the entire design. Whereas, uh, the woman with the mushroom, her whole design is an also a big giant room that has.

[00:27:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Just weapons, just weapon, an entire wall of mounted spears.

[00:27:26] Spears and swords and weapons that we see multiple times that nobody ever says, how can we have all these swords until she’s giving one to the little boy and then gives a magic. She gives them magic spear, which I’ll be completely honest, looks like a curtain rod. And I’m almost certain as a curtain rod. She gives him a spear that, that shoots magic out of it.

[00:27:47] And is like, here, go do stuff.

[00:27:50] June Diane Raphael: She says, fine. Well, okay. We’ll get to the ending, I guess. But she says, find the biggest one. Biggest one and, and stab him through the heart with this. Now, when that scene happens, what, first of all, like, why, why are we killing a giant troll for our big finale to return everything back to normal?

[00:28:14] So all is well, and the sister can be restored to her normal self. Why are we killing a creature we have never seen before?

[00:28:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Why does that creature matter? Why and why? And also the Harry Potter Jr. doesn’t even do it. He’s not the hero. Turok is the one that ends up killing.

[00:28:32] Paul Scheer: And

[00:28:32] isn’t the bad

[00:28:33] guy created by Turok?

[00:28:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Correct. Yes. So Turok, to be clear, so that people understand Turok has a magic ring and the magic ring has a needle in it. And when Turok, if you’re wondering, dear listener, if Sonny Bono is in this movie and we have yet to mention it. Well, guess what? Sonny Bono is in this movie. Do you even know who Sonny Bono is,

[00:28:56] young listener?

[00:28:57] Paul Scheer: Oh my gosh. I got you, babe. Oh, Sonny Bono gives to me the best performance.

[00:29:03] Jason Mantzoukas: When he’s talking about, I’m a swinger.

[00:29:05] Movie Audio: Well, let me give it to you straight, Harry boy. You see, I am a single unattached guy and I live upstairs right above you. Now I’m into swinging and children having pillow fights at all hours of the night,

[00:29:18] while I’m trying to score may cause a few strikeouts. You get me, Harry boy?

[00:29:22] Jason Mantzoukas: I’m a swinger and I’m, I’m trying to score. What a nut. Um, but when Turok stabs Sonny Bono with his ring needle. Right? He’s got a ring, it’s got a needle, he stabs Sonny Bono with it like a poison ring or something. Sonny Bono turns into a cocoon.

[00:29:42] First he goes into weird Al Yankovic movie, uh, parody song that is like, what’s the, is it Fat? It’s the Michael Jackson is.

[00:29:52] Paul Scheer: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yes. Yes.

[00:29:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Where his face is all big. He turns into that first and then he turns into it. He gets all bubbly, turns into a cocoon and then the cocoon explodes into baby trolls, baby creatures from the black lagoon.

[00:30:06] Paul Scheer: Like I would say

[00:30:09] he is impregnated like by forestry, his body opens up. And at first it’s just. It’s just vines. Eventually, we find the little creatures in his body. And we are killing this man. And he’s the only one that seemingly has done anything weird or wrong. I mean, he’s a swinger. Nothing wrong with that.

[00:30:30] I’m not trying to yuck. Nothing to yuck your yum. I mean, it doesn’t seem like he’s that attentive to a woman’s needs.

[00:30:35] Jason Mantzoukas: He’s bad at

[00:30:35] it. The woman who’s leaving the apartment was like, that wasn’t good.

[00:30:38] June Diane Raphael: But he says he’s a swinger. I hated that scene. But like, I don’t, I, that’s not how I understand swinging to be.

[00:30:45] Don’t you have to be in some sort of a couple to swing?

[00:30:48] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t think he means swinger the way we interpret it in modern day. I think he’s like a swinging single. Okay. Like this is eighties. I think he’s a swinger, meaning like I’m scoring out here. I don’t think he means I’m part of the quote unquote lifestyle.

[00:31:02] Paul Scheer: Okay. Because I will say I’ve never seen an actress play a disgust with herself and with. And with the man that she’s with better than that actress, I mean.

[00:31:14] June Diane Raphael: That woman

[00:31:15] deserves an Oscar.

[00:31:18] Paul Scheer: When she is walking down out of

[00:31:20] there. Yes. When she walks down those stairs past our little girl as Turok, I am. I feel for her.

[00:31:28] I’m like, Oh, she’s got to walk in the street with that red dress on.

[00:31:31] Jason Mantzoukas: At least she

[00:31:32] didn’t get turned into a cocoon that explodes into tiny creatures from the black lagoon.

[00:31:38] Paul Scheer: I mean, this movie

[00:31:39] should really just be a slasher movie, right? Turok goes and kills everyone in the different apartments. It’s a serial killer movie.

[00:31:46] Jason Mantzoukas: June

[00:31:46] Lockhart’s thing has said, okay, he’s trying to turn every apartment into a different fairy realm or whatever. If he completes every apartment, then all hope is lost.

[00:31:56] Paul Scheer: But by the way, why?

[00:31:57] Jason Mantzoukas: So as each apartment falls. But at least we know what the, at least we know

[00:32:01] what’s happening.

[00:32:02] Paul Scheer: Who, right? I mean, it’s like, is the, is the apartment on a hell mouth?

[00:32:05] It’s like, why, why does he need to get every apartment? You would think that

[00:32:09] like, what?

[00:32:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Why we never, ah, boy, you know what I would’ve loved and we’ll be never, of course not a flashback. A flashback.

[00:32:17] Paul Scheer: We don’t need a flashback

[00:32:19] when we have those beautiful drawings, those beautiful gothic drawings. These look like drawings that my children make in like a kindergarten.

[00:32:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Those are

[00:32:28] good artists.

[00:32:28] Paul Scheer: Uh, they are sick. They are clearly they were, they like, Hey, we need a bunch of gothic drawings here. And, and, you know, they’re in Rome. They, they figured they could get somebody. And these are. These are terrible. These are terrible drawings. I mean, they are bizarre.

[00:32:44] June Diane Raphael: Here’s what I didn’t like.

[00:32:47] I did not like that Malcolm agreed to go on, like, a dinner play date with a seven year old.

[00:32:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, invited to dinner by a child and shows up with a bottle of wine. Like it’s to catch a predator. I was like, what is happening? I know it’s, I know, I know it’s a little bit of convenient misdirect so that we don’t think that’s who it is or something.

[00:33:11] Paul Scheer: Malcolm is the actor, uh, who also is playing Turok. He is the man in the, the troll costume that, that is just a, so he’s a, he’s a twofer, the actor is playing two roles.

[00:33:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:33:23] Paul Scheer: And it is, I think there is something here that is bizarre because. When you’re talking about great performances, I do want to call out that Malcolm’s performance when he basically tells the little girl that he’s dying, that he is very sick, unexpected.

[00:33:40] Um, and, and, and very like.

[00:33:44] June Diane Raphael: That monologue, Malcolm’s monologue was very well done. And he talks about having to join the circus, you know. Oh yeah. I was, I was moved. I just didn’t quite understand. Like Malcolm was the only one he did say, correct me if I’m wrong, that he wanted to be an elf and our troll did turn him into an elf.

[00:34:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, but I, but my assumption is at the end of the movie, all of that magic has been reversed.

[00:34:12] June Diane Raphael: I think so. I would

[00:34:14] have loved to have seen them all at the end.

[00:34:16] Paul Scheer: I

[00:34:16] mean, we don’t know.

[00:34:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Because I, in my opinion, maybe all those people are dead.

[00:34:21] Paul Scheer: Or maybe this is where, uh, you know, like.

[00:34:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Are the police walking into a building full of dead bodies?

[00:34:27] Paul Scheer: I mean, and by the way, why would you let that family escape? Because they would be the number one suspects. If there’s nothing left there, be like, Oh, this girl killed all these

[00:34:34] people.

[00:34:35] Jason Mantzoukas: They’re also

[00:34:35] like loading their stuff into the, into the thing, the police, the two policemen there. And they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just drive on down there.

[00:34:41] You’ll find the police station. You can file a police report there. Wait a minute. Hold on. There’s only two, only two like uniformed officers are at the site of multiple homicides where people saw like a monstrous plant growing out of the roof of the tree. And then two police officers are like, yeah, yeah, you can go down there.

[00:35:02] Paul Scheer: It’s San

[00:35:03] Francisco, man. They don’t care. It’s like lawless San Francisco. That is used to be a great city. Now it’s a trash heap because of the munchies. These are munchies, by the way, all these creatures. This is like the, this is.

[00:35:20] Jason Mantzoukas: San

[00:35:21] Francisco. It’s rotten with trolls. They’re full of

[00:35:24] nymphs and And they’re taking over our little

[00:35:27] girl’s body, beautiful little girls, adult trolls, tiny little creatures from the black lagoon.

[00:35:35] Paul Scheer: I don’t want any of those little mushroom people telling me what to do.

[00:35:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, the, they think I’m weird, but it’s weird when a little mushroom talks to you. I’m just saying, I’m not listening to him.

[00:35:46] Paul Scheer: I have a lot of

[00:35:47] mushroom friends.

[00:35:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Take us this long to get to a Trump impression.

[00:35:54] My favorite thing was, sorry. My favorite thing was when Brad Hall, Julia Louis Dreyfus real life husband, Brad Hall plays her husband or boyfriend in this.

[00:36:01] June Diane Raphael: Is this where they met,

[00:36:02] by the way? Do we have this movie to thank?

[00:36:03] No, they met in college. They met in college.

[00:36:05] Paul Scheer: This is the

[00:36:05] only film they ever did together.

[00:36:08] They were dating for about a year. When they were asked to go to Rome and actually this is Julia Louise Dravis explaining it on The Tonight Show

[00:36:15] Interview Audio: This was back in like 1981 or 82 maybe 82 and we got offered this job this It was like a Dino De Laurentiis film. Okay, and they were gonna fly us to Rome now, by the way We didn’t have a penny to our names like to go to Rome, you know And they would pay for it and then we would shoot this movie.

[00:36:33] Okay, this movie is called Why am I promoting this film? No, it’s a good

[00:36:37] thing.

[00:36:38] This movie is called Troll.

[00:36:39] Right, right.

[00:36:40] And it is, um, it is the best moment of my life. Should I say that? No. Um, that, that, what else am I supposed to tell you?

[00:36:48] To compliment you, you look exactly the same as you did in the movie.

[00:36:51] Yeah, and

[00:36:52] to reiterate, you’re an a hole. No, no, just kidding.

[00:36:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, my favorite scene though is when He shows up to pick her up, but she’s already been transformed into a nymph or a wood fairy or whatever she’s been turned into. And he’s just knocking on the door and Malcolm comes up and they’re talking and he’s like, yeah, I came over to pick her up cause we were supposed to go play some volleyball.

[00:37:13] Paul Scheer: Yeah. That’s their date, the volleyball date.

[00:37:16] June Diane Raphael: By the way,

[00:37:17] I was like,

[00:37:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Only in the eighties is, are people making volleyball dates.

[00:37:21] June Diane Raphael: I know. I mean, I listen, I, both of my parents like played intramural sports in the eighties. It’s like, I miss. I miss that, you know, was done. It was done.

[00:37:30] Paul Scheer: I do want to just go back to one more detail about Julia Louise Dreyfus’s apartment.

[00:37:34] Cause it really jumped out at me. There’s a lot of weird flats in these apartments. Like it is a big square and they put these walls in that make no difference. Julia Louise Dreyfus has a sectional couch that is completely separated every section so much so that one of the walls. Like a part of it is against the wall and then the wall ends and then the couch is like spaced out from it.

[00:38:02] Like I I was obsessed with this. I want to kind of

[00:38:05] June Diane Raphael: I know exactly .

[00:38:08] Paul Scheer: Take a look at this because I just want you to see it like there it is.

[00:38:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I

[00:38:12] see. Yeah. Yeah

[00:38:14] June Diane Raphael: Like this was done though. I remember this scene It’s vibe of like sectionals don’t necessarily need to be together. It’s the 80s.

[00:38:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Split up.

[00:38:24] Paul Scheer: But why would

[00:38:24] you leave such a little path?

[00:38:26] It’s not like you’re going to cut through.

[00:38:27] Jason Mantzoukas: I think to walk in. I think to walk, to cut between from the doorway.

[00:38:32] Paul Scheer: It’s so tiny though.

[00:38:33] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s probably,

[00:38:33] honest to God, I honestly, it’s probably because a cameraman needed to walk through there during the show.

[00:38:39] June Diane Raphael: I

[00:38:40] loved that in that apartment, in JLD’s apartment.

[00:38:43] There, when you first walk into that apartment, there is a giant photograph of Pointe Ballet Shoes.

[00:38:49] Paul Scheer: Oh, she, I mean her apartment is.

[00:38:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Not since, um, not since, look, basket on the back of the door, was that Look Who’s Talking 2?

[00:38:59] Paul Scheer: Yeah!

[00:39:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Have I felt as though the interiors of all of these locations deserved complete analysis

[00:39:06] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah.

[00:39:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Or the one recently with the, what was the lion’s head on the wall? The knitted lion.

[00:39:11] Paul Scheer: Oh, that was, uh, Samurai Cop. Samurai Cop.

[00:39:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Like the, the, the interiors here had some true nuts level stuff.

[00:39:18] June Diane Raphael: That’s

[00:39:18] right. And they were so full. Things. Yep. You know, I just wanted to look.

[00:39:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, they

[00:39:23] emptied out multiple thrift stores to, to do this.

[00:39:26] Yeah. In Rome. I to make this look perfect,

[00:39:28] Paul Scheer: I believe in Julia’s apartment. There is also a nativity scene on the coffee table. Uh, and then, oh, actually I’m looking a little bit closer now. It is a nativity scene ish, but it’s all peacocks, uh, ceramic peacocks, uh, surrounding baby peacocks. Her apartment.

[00:39:45] When she becomes a nymph, now she is transformed into what I would argue. Like every creature looks like a munchie from that movie. We did munchies. They basically are puppets that are wet down to look as slimy and gross as humanly possible. Uh, but yet she turns into.

[00:40:03] June Diane Raphael: Like a sex nymph.

[00:40:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, she’s like a

[00:40:06] sexy wood nymph or something like that.

[00:40:08] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, but not only that, but there are multiples. Yeah, there’s a bunch

[00:40:11] of, a bunch of nymphs running around. So, so this is the thing and that’s why I was like, so I believe Torak created those nymphs for himself, you know, and And that the other, the other trolls are just sort of pals, um, and that’s why I’m so fascinated by his one Torak’s one, I guess, aside from the ending, but benevolent deed, which was to turn Malcolm into exactly what he wanted to be.

[00:40:44] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I, I wish I could understand because I agree with you, but to me, this is based solely on June Lockhart’s exposition dump, that he, each apartment represents a different magical realm.

[00:40:56] Paul Scheer: Right, yes.

[00:40:57] But I still don’t understand

[00:40:58] June Diane Raphael: What So you’re saying

[00:40:58] someone else could have been turned into a nymph?

[00:41:01] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:41:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.

[00:41:03] Paul Scheer: I

[00:41:03] do

[00:41:03] think that he needed to have the nymph realm. He needed to have the other, like he needed to have four realms to then take over the earth.

[00:41:11] Jason Mantzoukas: But you’re right, it’s

[00:41:12] curious that the nymph realm is just Julia Louis Dreyfus without clothes on, versus every other realm is like, uh, googly eyes on a lump of dog shit.

[00:41:22] And this is the, and this is what it is. Like, what are we, like some of the trolls. Have like little troll bodies, but like spider legs, uh, or lobster legs.

[00:41:31] June Diane Raphael: And June

[00:41:32] Lockhart was turned into a planter,

[00:41:35] Paul Scheer: A tree stump, a stump stump.

[00:41:41] It looks like it does look like a weird, it looks like, you know, you are a Sid and Marty Kroft puppeteer.

[00:41:47] And you’re like, ah, fuck. I can’t, I, you know, I’m gonna start over.

[00:41:50] Jason Mantzoukas: When

[00:41:50] she comes back at the end of the movie, at the end of the movie, she is the only resident that we do see alive, except that she’s alive in her young form.

[00:41:58] Paul Scheer: Right. She has been broken

[00:42:00] free, but like, so has she been waiting? I mean, again, so why did she be young?

[00:42:06] Cause it was, she was cursed to be

[00:42:07] old.

[00:42:08] Jason Mantzoukas: She implies earlier in the movie that she might not be around for long, like she thinks this next great battle is the battle she stayed alive.

[00:42:16] June Diane Raphael: Everybody

[00:42:17] in this apartment is on their way out.

[00:42:19] Jason Mantzoukas: For

[00:42:19] real.

[00:42:20] I mean, for real.

[00:42:22] Paul Scheer: She also references Hiroshima that is like, what? She’s like, remember Hiroshima

[00:42:27] June Diane Raphael: Because it happened on a weekend.

[00:42:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, my God.

[00:42:30] Paul Scheer: So that’s this movie takes place, by the way. Important to note within 48 hours, they move in on a Friday evening and they are gone by Sunday.

[00:42:38] June Diane Raphael: I think that’s right. And

[00:42:39] they settle in pretty quickly. Oh, I mean, it seems insane.

[00:42:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Like can you

[00:42:43] imagine being that unpacked and that moved in within 48 hours?

[00:42:48] I mean, I still have boxes. From over a decade ago. Sometimes you gotta leave those boxes in the garage. I still have records that are unpacked. What’s going on?

[00:42:57] Paul Scheer: I mean, and they go, well, you know, he even says, Oh, the apartment fairies helped us unpack.

[00:43:03] Okay,

[00:43:04] like,

[00:43:04] why do we even need, like,

[00:43:04] Why do

[00:43:05] we even need to go in all these?

[00:43:06] Jason Mantzoukas: In a movie in which there are real fairies, don’t suggest that there are apartment fairies because those are actually upstairs.

[00:43:12] Paul Scheer: I do want

[00:43:13] to ask about another thing, which is Malcolm the Friend. Malcolm, who, who, who, who, who? I have a couple questions about Malcolm, but Malcolm, who is dying, who is very sick, who befriends a girl, brings over a bottle of wine, they, they kind of force him to read one of his poems at dinner.

[00:43:30] Movie Audio: A gentle knight was ?Riding across the plain, all clad in mighty arms and silver shield. Where in old dents and deep wounds did remain the cruel marks of many a bloody field. Yet armies till that time did he never wield.

[00:43:50] Paul Scheer: And it’s not a romantic poem at all, but the husband and wife hold hands like, reminds us, reminds me of each other.

[00:43:58] It’s like, well, you shouldn’t, this is not a, this is not a, this is not that kind of a thing.

[00:44:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Not only that, but, but it felt like, okay, so so Malcolm is there, he’s a professor, he’s, he’s, he’s gonna, he recites this poem, The Fairy Queen, right? What’s wild about it is, the little girl, the troll has requested it.

[00:44:18] The troll has specifically requested it in a scene we didn’t see, where the troll in the little girl’s body invites a grown man over for dinner, an adult man over for dinner to then ask him to recite of the fairy queen poem, which appears to somehow activate everything. The reading of the poem then leads into the singing of the song, which we are intercutting between him.

[00:44:46] Yes, this was the wildest part. The wildest part. The song. Him reading the poem and saying these lines, but then all the other trolls and the things that the cocoons have given birth to start to sing a song in unison with the poem.

[00:45:01] Movie Audio: His angry steed, the child is foaming bit.

[00:45:15] Jason Mantzoukas: And this was the part where I was like what the fuck is happening in this movie?

[00:45:19] Paul Scheer: This song is nuts now.

[00:45:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Like is this a is this evoking something? Is he conjuring something? Is the troll? Is the troll’s plan to get Malcolm to say these words to do this? Does the reading of the poem have meaning or is the troll just a

[00:45:35] fan.

[00:45:36] Paul Scheer: This poem

[00:45:36] is

[00:45:38] that like, this is, we are supposed to believe that this is an original poem. It’s not him. He’s not a, he didn’t study. Oh, I think

[00:45:44] it’s a,

[00:45:45] Jason Mantzoukas: I think it’s meant to be a famous poem because

[00:45:50] June Diane Raphael: He has a conversation with Harry Potter senior there about writing.

[00:45:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh,

[00:45:56] yes.

[00:45:57] June Diane Raphael: And how I thought that they were both writers and that this was him sharing some of his own original work.

[00:46:05] I don’t know.

[00:46:06] Jason Mantzoukas: There is

[00:46:06] something called the fairy queen by Edmund Spencer. Okay. Okay. I don’t know. It’s, it appears to be a poem, but I don’t know. Maybe it’s not. Um, I mean, but that’s what I thought. Thought it was I thought it was like because he’s a professor like this was something that he knew from work and that but that had meaning for the troll in in his

[00:46:27] plan.

[00:46:28] This is what that’s maybe doing too much work for the movie.

[00:46:30] Paul Scheer: This is where I feel like this movie is completely confused about what it is. Is it a kid’s movie? Is it a horror movie? Because it has elements that are like. Fairies and this is a, an ancient battle and we’re telling a story, but then there’s like this straight up like crazy effects and murder and it’s like, I think supposed to be like a horror film, but we just don’t know.

[00:46:48] And we’re kind of like touching on that, touching on this. And it’s, it keeps me completely confused because.

[00:46:55] Jason Mantzoukas: While

[00:46:56] either of you were watching this, did the boys see it at all? Like did this peak their curiosity?

[00:47:01] Paul Scheer: June showed it this morning to our oldest son. Yes.

[00:47:03] June Diane Raphael: He

[00:47:04] was enjoyed. We enjoyed it.

[00:47:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Enjoyed it. Okay. I was curious because it looks so frankly, it looks so kind of janky, you know, this is a

[00:47:14] June Diane Raphael: First transition.

[00:47:15] The first troll like larva transition. Um, he was like, Oh, whoa, he was super into. Every time I go back seeing the fact, yeah, I mean, it

[00:47:31] Paul Scheer: Definitely feels like American werewolf in London, like the dime store version of American.

[00:47:35] Jason Mantzoukas: It also

[00:47:38] feels to me like what you were saying before Paul with what was the, did we do ghoulies or Munchies, Munchies, Ghoulies, chud, all that era of movies that were not quite.

[00:47:48] Gremlins or E. T. Not quite like a really like in you invest in like a puppet. These are really, these seem really like they are actively melting or are made of slop.

[00:48:02] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. I will

[00:48:03] say though, I did think that the troll himself, Torak.

[00:48:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Great.

[00:48:09] June Diane Raphael: Looked great. And he’s walking around.

[00:48:11] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s

[00:48:11] not a puppet. That’s, you know, that’s a, uh, that’s, that’s, uh, that’s a person in a suit, which I thought was great.

[00:48:18] Paul Scheer: Okay. Well, I, I do want to, I, and I, you know, I’m, I’m trying to be as, as, uh, I want to try to be as, uh, like, you know, saying, using the right terminology, but is it the right thing to do. Like, again, Malcolm is, uh, you know, Malcolm is a little person. Um, and that is, I think, an important part here because, um, you know, when Brad Hall comes to take, uh, to take Julia to their volleyball date, um, Brad Hall gets down on his knees to have a conversation with him.

[00:48:50] And I was like, Oh, yeah, Huh?

[00:48:52] June Diane Raphael: Oh,

[00:48:52] Paul Scheer: Is that the way you’re supposed?

[00:48:58] June Diane Raphael: The reaction everybody has in this movie to Malcolm, the little person is absolutely disgusting. I mean, children. I guess you could give some, you know, they have a little bit of a longer leash of trying to understand his body.

[00:49:16] Sure. The adults in this movie behave abhorantly, yes. Worse.

[00:49:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Worse, worse.

[00:49:23] You’re right.

[00:49:24] June Diane Raphael: The

[00:49:24] Potters, the Potter couple, they look at him and are so shocked for so long. It’s not okay.

[00:49:35] Jason Mantzoukas: No, I agree. It’s it is every and it’s the case for everybody. You know, everybody is everybody acts like a like an insane person around him.

[00:49:43] Not only

[00:49:43] June Diane Raphael: just seen a little person before, but they never knew a little person could exist.

[00:49:48] Jason Mantzoukas: I also think

[00:49:49] also I’m gonna say the movie is also not helping itself by letting him be friends with

[00:49:56] a child.

[00:49:56] Paul Scheer: That that to me is what I’m reading from the parents reaction. Like Why is this adult man coming over with a bottle of wine to have a date with like, this is the daughter introduces him as like, this is my friend,

[00:50:09] June Diane Raphael: How I read their reaction.

[00:50:10] I read their reaction is simply ableist and like shocked that, you know, that there is a little person here, not the appropriate reaction, which is why is a grown man here?

[00:50:23] Jason Mantzoukas: I think both are true because I think the, the presence of her glass of milk connotes that she thinks a child is coming over, you know, and that the, the dissonance is, oh, this is a man, but that it is someone who is a little person.

[00:50:37] And I think that all of these things are present, but the movie is not helping itself by making any choices. It’s just allowing everybody to behave poorly except for the kids, you know?

[00:50:48] Paul Scheer: I mean, and the kid isn’t even the kid because the kid is a troll. Now, look, ,

[00:50:52] June Diane Raphael: Except for Harry Potter, Jr. Who I will say our son, our 10-year-old son, really connected to.

[00:50:56] He loved him.

[00:50:58] Paul Scheer: I mean, listen, HBJ

[00:50:59] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.

[00:51:00] Paul Scheer: Harry Potter Jr. Is the only person here that I trust. Uh, besides the fact that he decides to vomit in a, in a, in a stranger’s apartment, uh, every other choice that he makes is pretty much on the level. He, I, I believe it is the kid from never ending story. Uh, I believe that that’s.

[00:51:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, really?

[00:51:15] Paul Scheer: Yeah. I think he’s the, the same kid.

[00:51:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Is that before or after this?

[00:51:18] June Diane Raphael: Really love that movie.

[00:51:19] Paul Scheer: Uh, before this, that’s before. I think he got this.

[00:51:21] June Diane Raphael: He’s

[00:51:21] younger.

[00:51:22] Paul Scheer: No, no, no. He’s younger in Never Ending Story.

[00:51:25] Yeah. So that, that’s what I saying. Yeah. Never ending story before this.

[00:51:27] June Diane Raphael: Oh,

[00:51:27] yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:51:28] Paul Scheer: But

[00:51:28] yeah, he makes all the right choices.

[00:51:30] He makes the informed choices because literally there are parts where the parents say She’s acting weird. What’s up with our daughter? And then the son comes in and goes. Uh, she’s acting weird like oh, calm down. Like what you just remember when you’re in the same scene.

[00:51:46] Jason Mantzoukas: Up and throws him across the room like a rag doll. And the parents are like what’s going on and he’s like nothing.

[00:51:52] Paul Scheer: He’s no he doesn’t I

[00:51:53] tripped He he’s already in the abuse.

[00:51:56] He’s already as an abused man. He’s like I tripped I tripped I tripped. Uh, obviously we had opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion it is now time for second opinions.

[00:52:08] Music: Was a piece of shit, yet this person recommends it. Tell me what is the message? Maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion.

[00:52:33] Paul Scheer: Thank you, John LeJoie. It has been a long time since we’ve heard that. And, uh, what a film to come back on. There are 369 total reviews of Troll, the 1986 film Troll. 68 percent are five star reviews.

[00:52:50] Um, and they’re all perfectly bizarre. I, and I know that this is what we do on the show, but this These reviews, they all have something that made me go. And let’s start with.

[00:53:03] Jason Mantzoukas: This

[00:53:03] is a little segment called things that make you go,

[00:53:06] huh?

[00:53:10] Paul Scheer: Right. Well, anyway, uh, Candace in 2015, um, uh, titles to review childhood movie, um, and writes this, “I watched this when I was a toddler, it’s a cool movie for that time, five stars.”

[00:53:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait a minute. What years are toddler years? Because that seems wrong. Toddler?

[00:53:40] June Diane Raphael: Toddler’s considered, well, as soon as you start walking, so one, because you’re a toddler.

[00:53:45] You’re not a baby anymore when you’re walking, so it’s like one to two. Two, five and a half, three. Oh, shoot. Okay.

[00:53:52] Paul Scheer: I mean, I, I, you know, according to, uh, you know, according to, uh, wow. According to the internet, a toddler is between one and three years old.

[00:54:01] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.

[00:54:01] Paul Scheer: So, I mean, at that point, this is not a movie to be showing a toddler.

[00:54:06] I mean, some would argue you shouldn’t even be putting that many screens in front of them at all. But if this is the, if this is the formative film, it’s like we didn’t watch Sesame Street, we watched Troll. Oh

[00:54:15] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. Also, how are you remembering your toddler years?

[00:54:18] Paul Scheer: I

[00:54:18] know. My son didn’t even remember watching.

[00:54:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, maybe if your toddler years were full of traumatic viewings like.

[00:54:25] June Diane Raphael: This is the

[00:54:25] only way you’d remember them.

[00:54:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Jesus Christ. Like, what was the difference between Why did the ring have green glowing light and then also the needle? The ring did so much and never got explained.

[00:54:38] Paul Scheer: It also zaps people away.

[00:54:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. There’s also the troll also can be invisible at times, but sometimes has to scurry and hide behind plants. Like, why not just be invisible all the time?

[00:54:49] June Diane Raphael: That’s right.

[00:54:50] And sometimes when he pokes his little head out, and I’m like, wait, can other people see you now as troll? Yep. Who knows?

[00:54:57] Paul Scheer: I mean, he’s doing David Copperfield level magic.

[00:55:01] He runs behind a bar and then pops up on the other side of the room. It’s like, I don’t understand that.

[00:55:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Especially when he’s in

[00:55:07] troll form. Yeah. Troll form is, it’s not mobile very. No. It’s like, he’s lumbering.

[00:55:12] Paul Scheer: I, like, I will say that there is a funny story I read about, uh, the actor, Malcolm, who was also the troll, they sent him out at Cannes in that costume, uh, to run around and scare people to pass out flyers for a troll and June.

[00:55:27] I love your face reacting to this just utter shock. And they also paired him up with a, uh, another circus performer who was about the same size, who passed out from the heat exhaustion from being in one of those costumes, uh, running around.

[00:55:39] June Diane Raphael: This is

[00:55:39] not right. You don’t have one of your lead actors doing like street marketing for you at Cannes.

[00:55:46] Paul Scheer: You know, that look, this is it.

[00:55:48] That’s the time

[00:55:48] Jason Mantzoukas: That being said, I will be out on Hollywood Boulevard dressed as the artisan from the movie Infinite. If you want, I will chase you around. It’s pretty cool.

[00:55:57] Paul Scheer: I will also be at airports, uh, reprising my role. Uh, uh, from Twisters, uh, to, you know, you can get, you can get a photo with me. Um,

[00:56:07] Alright, so in 20, uh, in 2003, uh, just an Amazon customer writes a review titled, where do I start?

[00:56:15] Jason Mantzoukas: 2003.

[00:56:17] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah. These are, I mean, the last one is early in 2015. Um, yeah, “When I was three years old. My father first showed me this horror movie”

[00:56:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Again. What

[00:56:28] is up with, why is, why are so many of these reviews from people who watched it as a literal infant.

[00:56:34] Paul Scheer: One

[00:56:35] to three?

[00:56:35] “It freaked me out royally.” Uh, you think? “I wouldn’t go into my basement for five years. Five years. But as I grew older and less scared, I forgot about the movie. Then last night when we were at blockbuster, I found it and rented it. It’s a very good B horror movie. Rent this movie. If you like a good freak.”

[00:56:57] Young movie.

[00:56:58] Jason Mantzoukas: What the fuck is this?

[00:57:00] Paul Scheer: I don’t think this movie is about this. I guess maybe it is about the starting of the world. Uh, Tarot Queen. Tarot Queen. Or Tarot Queen. Tarot. Tarot probably. Sorry. Sorry. Nah, I think it’s Tarot. Uh, Tarot Queen.

[00:57:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, carrot?

[00:57:11] Paul Scheer: Yep. Tarot Queen. Tarot Queen. Tarot Queen, um, writes this, um,

[00:57:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Do you want me to

[00:57:18] read

[00:57:19] your Tarot

[00:57:19] cards?

[00:57:21] Paul Scheer: “If a troll like that were in my apartment, I would just shoot it and call it a day.”

[00:57:28] June Diane Raphael: You

[00:57:28] can’t shoot it. Someone tried.

[00:57:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. We haven’t talked about that guy at all. He was a real character.

[00:57:34] Paul Scheer: I would never buy insurance from him. He seems like he’s still a military man. Like not that I wouldn’t buy from military man, but he seems like he’s still actively in the military.

[00:57:41] I mean, when he is

[00:57:42] June Diane Raphael: He’s not well, I mean, he’s like

[00:57:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Truly he’s been ravaged by war.

[00:57:48] Paul Scheer: Uh, the fact that his apartment is completely decked out like a war room, like it looks like it looks like when you walk.

[00:57:54] Jason Mantzoukas: With like

[00:57:55] trophies animal hides, it’s like, you know.

[00:57:58] Paul Scheer: It looks like a

[00:57:59] base camp tent in a movie where they go, let’s go talk to the colonel, you know, and then you would

[00:58:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Think that’s a good example of you would think that characters existence would mean and he does try and fight back, but there would be more of a, you know, It’s a battle between the guy with the guns and the this and the and there’s a little bit of that, but nobody really ever fights the troll effectively.

[00:58:21] Even June Lockhart, who’s waited, I’m going to guess hundreds of years to just this

[00:58:30] Paul Scheer: Or was she frozen in that age? That’s another question I have because she’s an old woman who then transforms back into her younger self in between.

[00:58:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Can I ask this?

[00:58:39] Does she always transform into her younger self when she lets her hair down?

[00:58:43] So, like, can she do that at will? Hair up, old lady, hair down, young hottie?

[00:58:49] Paul Scheer: Well, now that you’re talking about it.

[00:58:49] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, like, well, how does this work? Old hottie, young

[00:58:52] hottie?

[00:58:52] Paul Scheer: Is, is the young girl, Wendy Ann, Like a vessel for her because she’s blonde and Wendy’s blonde and she needs like, he needs.

[00:59:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Wouldn’t it

[00:59:02] be interesting.

[00:59:03] But no, it’s not because she just walks away from at the very end of the movie. June. Unis Saint Claire now in her youthful form walks the streets of quote unquote San Francisco. Uh, like with a wink, like I’ll see you around, you know, and I’m like, what, what is this?

[00:59:21] Paul Scheer: Mushroom in her backpack? Oh my God.

[00:59:24] June Diane Raphael: I mean, I don’t know.

[00:59:25] There is one. I did laugh when the troll said to JLD, beauty fades. Um, it just made me laugh coming out of a young girl’s mouth. But I do wonder, because the troll said that, if He did put some sort of a spell on her to make her look older. Although I have to say, what a gorgeous older woman. I couldn’t take my eyes off of

[00:59:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Stunning.

[00:59:49] I

[00:59:51] wrote it, I wrote it in my, I wrote it in my notes when, when, um, Harry Potter jr first meets her and he comes into her apartment and she’s like, you can come in anytime you want. The door’s always unlocked. You come right on in. I was like, Are they gonna fuck? Like, I was like, this, this setup is strange.

[01:00:07] There’s, there’s more sexual tension between Harry Potter Jr and the old lady, Eunice St. Clair than anybody else in the movie.

[01:00:15] June Diane Raphael: Absolutely.

[01:00:16] Jason Mantzoukas: And I’m rooting for it in a May, December way. I, I, no, I shouldn’t be rooting for that? I mean,

[01:00:22] Paul Scheer: I, this is a crazy thing to say across the board, the acting in this movie.

[01:00:26] Pretty fucking solid, like, like.

[01:00:28] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s all good people, like, all good people, that’s the thing is,

[01:00:30] it’s all good people for the most part,

[01:00:32] Paul Scheer: and I, I really liked her, and the fact that she could carry that much exposition, and I kind of understand it, I mean, to, she did to the best of her ability. She is touching a page that has no discernible real writing on it and going, this is what happened.

[01:00:47] And here’s what happened. I was like.

[01:00:48] June Diane Raphael: I was impressed.

[01:00:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Everybody’s making choices.

[01:00:52] Paul Scheer: And looking good while doing it.

[01:00:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Not always looking good, but they’re making choices, which I enjoyed.

[01:00:58] Paul Scheer: So this final review written in 2021, um, the reviewers name is rotten tomato, uh, slash Demetrius writes this, and you have to help me break this down.

[01:01:13] “A great example of Hollywood demonizing conservatism. Without us, you have no freedom. You’d be like the English laughing my ass off five stars.” I don’t know what that means. I don’t

[01:01:29] know.

[01:01:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Who are the conservatives in this? Like are the trolls?

[01:01:33] June Diane Raphael: I

[01:01:33] don’t know

[01:01:34] Paul Scheer: I mean, because

[01:01:36] the, are the

[01:01:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Sunny Bono was a Republican Senator

[01:01:42] Paul Scheer: Or was it like the fact that like.

[01:01:44] Here’s a point of view.

[01:01:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Later, he was

[01:01:46] later a Republican senator.

[01:01:47] Paul Scheer: The trolls,

[01:01:49] the, that is odd. The trolls were trying, the trolls couldn’t agree to sharing a the land, they needed to fight to own all the land. So maybe this idea of like, Hey, let everybody have their own land and not worry about taking it over.

[01:02:06] It maybe that’s the theory that they’re talking about. Like, Hey, like we don’t have to, we don’t have to take it over. We, you do your thing, fairies, trolls and nymphs, and we’ll do our thing over here. But they got greedy. They got so greedy.

[01:02:18] Jason Mantzoukas: . This is a perfect example of people finding their own point of view inside of their own, whatever story this person’s rotten tomato Demetrius is telling themselves.

[01:02:31] They’re finding it everywhere. They are find. They are like, they’re putting their thing, their agenda there, whatever it is into the movie troll as if it’s also about what they’re thinking about. You know, because I can’t think of anything in this movie that follows that, that, that, that echoes what he’s suggesting, you know, uh, none of this feel, if anything, the trolls who are the demons are building a new Eden, you know, they could be climate warriors, you know, they bring it

[01:03:06] Paul Scheer: Back to the, yeah, just a natural world.

[01:03:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Now, I

[01:03:09] don’t know, like I don’t think of any, I don’t think of the trolls as establishing conservative beliefs.

[01:03:16] Paul Scheer: I I do wanna reveal one thing to you. I didn’t wanna tell you this early on.

[01:03:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay. Hold on. I’m sorry to interrupt you, Paul. Yes. But there is, I do, I just remembered there is the one scene where the cr, the troll says trickle down economics.

[01:03:29] Paul Scheer: Oh, that is true. Yes.

[01:03:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Which

[01:03:30] is a hallmark of conservative policy at the time.

[01:03:35] Paul Scheer: Trickle down economics and then the spit comes out of the mouth . Um. A couple things. I didn’t want to tell you this because I thought your guesses were pretty good. We’re talking about the bucket hat, right? There is a story about the bucket hat.

[01:03:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Is it, does it have to do with Michael Moriarty’s hairline?

[01:03:52] Paul Scheer: Well, no. Michael Moriarty complained to the director, I don’t understand my character and, uh, and so the director took a bucket hat off of the first A. D. ‘s head and put it on Michael Moriarty’s head and Michael Moriarty said, I looked ridiculous and then goes, Harry Potter is ridiculous.

[01:04:19] And with that, he understood the character.

[01:04:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Whoa.

[01:04:30] What are you talking about? Oh, that’s great.

[01:04:33] Paul Scheer: Okay, the other part of this thing.

[01:04:36] Jason Mantzoukas: And that, that, by the way Nothing, not for nothing. That does help us make sense of the dancing scene. Right. It does help us make sense of many of the other scenes. Why his choices feel bananas is because he clearly had some sort of epiphany with the bucket hat that informed everything else.

[01:04:54] June Diane Raphael: So

[01:04:54] he was working outside in.

[01:04:58] Jason Mantzoukas: It all comes from externals.

[01:04:59] June Diane Raphael: It

[01:04:59] all comes, it’s from the bucket.

[01:05:01]

[01:05:01] Jason Mantzoukas: It

[01:05:02] starts from the hat.

[01:05:03] June Diane Raphael: Yes.

[01:05:03] Jason Mantzoukas: You know, some people say it starts with the shoes. I need to understand how my character stands on the earth.

[01:05:09] June Diane Raphael: It’s the bucket

[01:05:10] hat trickle down

[01:05:12] theory.

[01:05:13] Jason Mantzoukas: The bucket hat trickle down character nomics.

[01:05:15] Paul Scheer: Thank God thank God the first AD was wearing a hat. Uh, because that is it. Now, here is the other thing that I thought was interesting. This song. That was sung in, in the film, uh, or, uh, you know, this, this is going to be a, a big set piece where all the characters, uh, saying this giant production number, a big musical number in the, in the film, it’s called, uh, cantos profane, uh, otherwise known as the troll song and, uh, basically the puppets were so low budget that they couldn’t move their mouths.

[01:05:52] So, uh, they just had to grunt along with the song. So the song is over, had all the puppies gone.

[01:06:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, that was the thing. Like the puppets mouths really did not move. Including the trolls. You know, so it, it real, that really severely limited how, how much you could invest in the characters, but because, you know, I really couldn’t hear them speak with their own voice. Um,

[01:06:16] Paul Scheer: I will say this. It was written by the same guy who wrote Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Honey, I Blew Up the Kids, and Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, the TV show, and Chud 2, Bud the Chud.

[01:06:24] Now, uh,

[01:06:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Bud

[01:06:25] the Chud?

[01:06:26] Paul Scheer: Bud the

[01:06:26] Chud.

[01:06:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, have we done Chud 1?

[01:06:28] Paul Scheer: No. Well, maybe

[01:06:29] we

[01:06:29] should. Maybe we should.

[01:06:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers is what Chud stands for, I remember.

[01:06:36] Paul Scheer: By the way, great memory there. And then, um, the tagline of this movie, which I really liked was “apartment for rent. Inquire within”,

[01:06:48] how did you know,

[01:06:48] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, like, that’s not at all suggestive of the movies, like not even remotely.

[01:06:57] It’s not, there’s not a double meaning to that. That is actually just,

[01:07:00] yeah,

[01:07:01] a sign that would be hanging outside of a building.

[01:07:04] Paul Scheer: But maybe within

[01:07:06] the little girls that troll.

[01:07:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Apartment for rent, inquire within. That is just, that’s just a sign. You know, like that’s not, that’s not a play on any of those words, right?

[01:07:16] Paul Scheer: No, I mean, it isn’t, uh, but it’s, if you say it like inquire, uh, and then, and then the other one who has “Worlds of wonder, worlds of mystery, worlds of fear, these worlds are the kingdom of troll.”

[01:07:34] Jason Mantzoukas: What?

[01:07:35] Those two taglines are a lesson in extremes. Yeah, one is a one’s a nothing and one is so much as to be utterly confounding.

[01:07:45] Paul Scheer: Now, here is the thing that’s going to surprise you both. This had a budget of 700, 000. It made 5. 5 million. Now, because of that, This movie came out in 1986, the year of Top Gun, Crocodile Dundee, and Karate Kid Part 2. But, with that kind of a budget, it beat films that we’ve done on this show, Solar Babies, The Wrath, Rad, Shanghai Surprise, No Retreat, No Surrender, and Shopping Mall, Never Too Young to Die, and Babes in Toyland.

[01:08:20] Jason Mantzoukas: Now, Paul, I’m pretty sure we’ve never done No Retreat, No Surrender, right?

[01:08:24] Paul Scheer: No, we did.

[01:08:25] Jason Mantzoukas: We did?

[01:08:26] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[01:08:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, it’s the lost episode that they’ll never,

[01:08:30] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[01:08:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, eat shit. You guys never get to hear it.

[01:08:35] Paul Scheer: Oh my

[01:08:36] gosh. We’ll do it again. We’ll do it again.

[01:08:37] Jason Mantzoukas: We won’t

[01:08:39] do it again. Unique experience. Um, interesting. So, and now I guess I understand why there’s more of why there’s many more of them in fact, because that like, that’s a, by the way, that’s a huge success.

[01:08:50] Yeah, you know, and is that just the market in the mid eighties for low budget slasher movies is people are going to go.

[01:08:58] June Diane Raphael: But this is not a low budget slasher movie. Like, I don’t think we landed on the genre of this movie.

[01:09:05] Jason Mantzoukas: I think it’s true because I don’t think it’s a kid’s movie at all. Paul, which you’ve mentioned a number of times.

[01:09:09] I don’t think it’s like chasing the gremlins or the E. T. crowd. I think it’s more towards the chuds and the ghoulies and the, the, the, the horror movie. Yeah. Uh, I think it’s I think it’s

[01:09:23] Paul Scheer: I think it’s walking a line between both and doesn’t exactly know what it is. It is rated PG.

[01:09:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, oh, then it is a kid’s movie.

[01:09:32] Paul Scheer: Yeah, I think I think

[01:09:33] by having the kid in there and it’s not like overly graphic like it’s it is a kid’s story.

[01:09:37] Jason Mantzoukas: I feel like it’s not

[01:09:38] as scary as a poltergeist.

[01:09:40] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, not at all. I mean, it’s not scary.

[01:09:43] Jason Mantzoukas: I was scared. I got guys. I got scared.

[01:09:50] Paul Scheer: I mean, look, that’s what I’m saying. It kind of, it’s like, is it campy?

[01:09:54] Is it a kid’s movie? Is it a horror? Yes. To all of those. Because it’s not, uh, yeah. I don’t

[01:10:04] know. I don’t know.

[01:10:06] Jason Mantzoukas: But it’s a kind of movie that I also, as I was approaching the very end of it, I was, I felt because I kept thinking as kind of what we’ve talked about, I kept thinking like, Oh, stuff’s going to be explained.

[01:10:17] I’m going to find out stuff. And then we did get some explanation from Eunice St. Clair, but then nothing else. So much so that the very end, I was like, did they win? How did they win? Who won? What’s even winning victory? What is that mean? Everybody comes back. Everybody goes away. What has happened here?

[01:10:37] What? What are we to assume has happened? And and that the final shots, you know, are the policemen going into the apartment building and looking around. They assume nothing has happened because there is no evidence of anything happened. And then they open one door, right? Inside the door is like a pastoral field.

[01:10:55] The cop gets sucked into it and the ring comes into view. And it’s like, Oh, the troll is still here.

[01:11:01] Okay. So what has happened?

[01:11:03] Paul Scheer: Or is the troll still there? Or is just the universe been opened and there’s a, there’s a hole in the universe that someone’s got to close.

[01:11:11] June Diane Raphael: Or

[01:11:11] always open.

[01:11:14] Jason Mantzoukas: So is this a hell mouth?

[01:11:15] Is this a thin separation between the fantasy world and the real world exists on the site of this San Francisco apartment building? That’s what we’re assuming.

[01:11:25] Paul Scheer: I mean, I mean, I

[01:11:27] look, this is why we need a sequel. But the sequel we got was not the sequel that we need because it didn’t really expand the mythology.

[01:11:34] It just kind of went off in a different direction. Now, look, with all that being said, would I recommend it, you bet. I love this movie. I’ve enjoyed every moment of it, even though I didn’t know what I was watching. And, uh, you know, I was okay with that.

[01:11:46] Jason Mantzoukas: The, the, the perpetual question marks that are brought up by this movie are fun.

[01:11:52] They’re, it’s fun to be confu every turn was like a left hand turn that I was like, okay, wait, what now? Yeah, and that way I thought that was fun to watch even though it was infuriating that it wasn’t making sense to me.

[01:12:05] Paul Scheer: June?

[01:12:06] June Diane Raphael: I totally agree. I enjoyed watching this movie.

[01:12:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Alright. Wow.

[01:12:10] Paul Scheer: There we

[01:12:10] go.

[01:12:11]

[01:12:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. So I guess we’re gonna do about, so I guess we’re doing the, the, the fall of trolls or, I mean, we’re a troll.

[01:12:17] Au autumn, autumn troll or troll coming.

[01:12:19] Paul Scheer: This is

[01:12:20] it. Troll. Coming back to troll. Uh, we will, we will figure it out. Uh, but we will be doing Troll 2 soon, so be on the lookout for that as well. Uh, we got it now we’ve opened up the door and I think you’ve opened up the door to chud as well. So, uh, there’s so many Creature movies and if we haven’t

[01:12:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Did we do ghoulies or critters or we haven’t done any of those?

[01:12:42] Paul Scheer: I mean, this is it. This is the gremlins.

[01:12:44] Jason Mantzoukas: We only did munchies.

[01:12:45] Paul Scheer: That’s we’re in a post gremlin world.

[01:12:46] Yeah, so this is it. Anyway, wow, what a blast.

[01:12:49] Jason Mantzoukas: You’re welcome everybody.

[01:12:50] Paul Scheer: You’re welcome. Enjoy it troll one a very underappreciated uh film because I think a lot of people give a lot of love to trolling

[01:12:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank

[01:12:58] you for calling it a film.

[01:12:59] Paul Scheer: Yes, this is a real film.

[01:13:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank you because this is film. This is art This is not a movie.

[01:13:04] Paul Scheer: Italian film

[01:13:06]

[01:13:06] Jason Mantzoukas: This is film cover it on Unspooled.

[01:13:09] Paul Scheer: We should

[01:13:09] we should have Uh, all right, uh, Jason and June. Thank you so much That’s it for Troll. Troll 2 will be coming in just a little bit but guess what? If you want to see us live and we’re going to be out live a bunch in the next couple of months, you can check us out at Largo in October and November, you can also check us in New York in November and following our, How Did This Get Made show in New York, Jason and I will be joined by Nicole Byer, Carl Tart, Lisa Gilroy, Rob Hubel, and more.

[01:13:40] That’s right. Some, How Did This Get Made all stars. For live improv. That’s right. Dinosaur improv is coming to Boston, DC, and Brooklyn. Go to HowDidThisGetMade.Com for tickets. It is going to be a blast. We’ve been doing these live shows and they are awesome. Uh, my book, Joyful Recollections of Trauma is available wherever you get your books, your audio books.

[01:14:01] If you have Spotify, you can listen to it there. You have your audible, you can listen to it there. And if you like the book, I really appreciate all the wonderful reviews. So keep on reviewing the book. It has been a blast. Um, but here’s the thing, people, there might’ve been things in this episode that we did not get to. Things that you want to correct us on.

[01:14:18] Well, guess what? Leave me a voicemail at 619-PAUL-ASK. That’s 619-PAUL-ASK, and tell me what we might’ve missed, or if you’re a little shy, just go to our discord at discord. gg slash H D T G M, and we will talk much more about troll on our Last Looks, follow up episode to Troll, and then we’ll get ready for Troll 2.

[01:14:41] We’ll also have another virtual live show that everyone in the world can watch coming up this December. Um, I gotta tell you people, it has been such a blast, uh, to be doing these shows. We’re raising money for move on. And if you’re listening to this. On September 6th, there’s still tickets left for our virtual show tonight.

[01:14:59] All right, everybody, we’ll see you next time. And remember, if you are listening on Apple podcasts or Spotify, make sure you are subscribed to our feed and have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings that helps us. And we appreciate it a lot. And last but not least, I got to thank our entire team who this show could not be done without.

[01:15:16] I’m talking about our producers, Scott Sonne. Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer, Avaryl Halley, our engineer, Casey Holford, and our associate producer, Jess Cisneros. That’s all I got people. We’ll see you next time on Last Looks. Bye for now.